Seen & Found

slowburner · 15-07-2013 8:03am

Coles wrote: »

Aerial photography proves it's worth again.

'World's oldest calendar' discovered in Scottish field, - BBC.

Here's the general area, if anyone wants to search.
http://binged.it/1an7dhO

Fries-With-That · 15-07-2013 11:27pm

slowburner wrote: »

Here's the general area, if anyone wants to search.
http://binged.it/1an7dhO

Pan down to the River Dee then pan to the right along the river there are two fields with crop marks and one field farther to the right with a line of small earth patches.

slowburner · 16-07-2013 12:16am

http://binged.it/11RSpaM
I wonder what's going on on the south bank. A cursus perhaps?

bawn79 · 16-07-2013 4:56pm

Simon.d wrote: »

Another interesting one here if you're in the Area: http://binged.it/12Izryd

Has a listing as earthworks with no description.. It's called Knocksouna, i.e. Hill of Samhain .. So sounds quite important, and likely to have been associated with the Regal history of Bruree going way back.. Seems to be associated with this individual/god :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongfind

I've been up Knocksouna before. I actually went up at Halloween sunset in the hope that the sun might set at a significant point on the horizon. Unfortunately it didn't! Not that much to see at ground level but I understand there may have been a medieval inaugeration site on it at one stage. A book I've always wanted to read is Royal Inaugeration in Gaelic Ireland by Elizabeth Fitzpatrick. I've read snippets online and its on that the inaugeration on Knocksouna is mentioned.

Coles · 18-07-2013 10:30pm

In the Knocksouna area, I think Knockderk looks very interesting, (2km SE of Lough Gur).

Bing Maps

Osi Mapviewer

Firstly there are a number of stone circles marked on the maps, but geologically the hill is quite remarkable. -a small isolated granite outcrop in limestone, but the shape of the hill would also make an ideal south-facing shelter, easily protected by the hill while also offering a vantage point over the landscape.

To the south of the hill is an area of fen peatland, a clear indication that there was once a lake at this location, and I believe that it is likely that this could have been an area of occupation similar to Lough Gur itself. It certainly looks like it would have been quite a remarkable place.

Does anyone know anything else about the hill or any archaeological finds associated with it? Any research on it, particularly the 'lake'?

Simon.d · 19-07-2013 7:08pm

Any views on this aerial shot I took of Dunabrattin Promontory fort in Waterford... Think I can make out some faint crop marks just inside the main fosse and bank fortification but would like a second opinion!

More on the fort here

slowburner · 19-07-2013 7:33pm

It's hard to get your bearings when not familiar with the site. Is inside the fosse, the lighter area to the left?

Simon.d · 19-07-2013 7:42pm

slowburner wrote: »

It's hard to get your bearings when not familiar with the site. Is inside the fosse, the lighter area to the left?

This is the approximate area the photo covers: http://binged.it/1bwpU5T

Potential marks in and around where I put yellow dots:

http://i.imgur.com/LEJxWva.png

slowburner · 19-07-2013 8:05pm

There could be a couple of hut sites there alright (1 & 2). They should be visible on the ground, if so. Vegetation can often give a misleading picture.
Is there another feature at 3? A sheepfold, perhaps.

slowburner · 19-07-2013 8:06pm

...and possibly a third hut site directly above (1) in the image above. I fiddled with the contrast etc.

Simon.d · 19-07-2013 10:08pm

Thanks for that Slowburner.. I'm not seeing things so!

He's a potentially more interesting one, a photo of the Woodstown Viking Site (this end http://binged.it/1bwPgAo )

Overlay with original picture here: http://imgur.com/a/VA9Ue#1

Simon.d · 21-07-2013 11:39pm

Thanks to "Thru my Eyes by Jamie" and his aerial drone for this one.

It's an aerial shot of the grounds of the court house in Waterford city, the location of St. Catherine's Abbey, a site with no upstanding remains, and suprisingly very little known about, given it's city centre location. Would really appreciate if anyone can shed any light on the features visible in these photos, and how/if they tie in with an abbey complex...

I've applied a few difference contrast filters here to help highlight various cropmarks.. (left and right arrows to scroll through) : http://imgur.com/a/IWQR8#1

slowburner · 22-07-2013 9:59am

Definitely something there for sure. Is it on the right axis for a religious building?

Simon.d · 22-07-2013 12:35pm

slowburner wrote: »

Definitely something there for sure. Is it on the right axis for a religious building?

Allignment looks good to me.. I've put a compass in on the image below.. (By overlaying the bing map http://binged.it/1aDDPE0 and lining up it up with the wall to the right of the image)

Also, heres a late 16th century depiction of the structure, showing it to have a cloister and a church with tower..

Simon.d · 24-07-2013 8:56pm

Another one here I took yesterday in Faithlegg, Co. Waterford..

Under the Trees in the top of the picture is a motte (WA010-004----) and the ivy covered walls (top right) are the remains of a tower house (WA010-005----).

The wheat field seems to be showing up some crop marks..

A depiction of the castle that once stood here from 1591... It's interesting to note that the cartographer drew part of the castle on a hill, which may imply that the later castle also included a structure on top of the motte...

ZPLXF2m.jpg?1

Simon.d · 28-07-2013 3:11pm

Potential Earthworks in Higginstown, Co. Kilkenny - http://binged.it/16cTbhX

slowburner · 29-07-2013 9:49am

Simon.d wrote: »

Potential Earthworks in Higginstown, Co. Kilkenny - http://binged.it/16cTbhX

Interesting one.
The historical mapping shows this area as 'Part of Blackrath' and it looks as though the elevated ground may have been quarried. Where was the black rath?

Simon.d · 29-07-2013 10:43pm

slowburner wrote: »

Interesting one.
The historical mapping shows this area as 'Part of Blackrath' and it looks as though the elevated ground may have been quarried. Where was the black rath?

Could be something to do with it alright.. "Kilkenny Archaeology" seem to be taking an interest in the nearby hillfort ( http://binged.it/16fD6Z0 ) at the moment, so will pass this one onto them and see what they have to say..

bawn79 · 30-07-2013 12:28pm

Coles wrote: »

In the Knocksouna area, I think Knockderk looks very interesting, (2km SE of Lough Gur).

Bing Maps

Osi Mapviewer

Firstly there are a number of stone circles marked on the maps, but geologically the hill is quite remarkable. -a small isolated granite outcrop in limestone, but the shape of the hill would also make an ideal south-facing shelter, easily protected by the hill while also offering a vantage point over the landscape.

To the south of the hill is an area of fen peatland, a clear indication that there was once a lake at this location, and I believe that it is likely that this could have been an area of occupation similar to Lough Gur itself. It certainly looks like it would have been quite a remarkable place.

Does anyone know anything else about the hill or any archaeological finds associated with it? Any research on it, particularly the 'lake'?

I've looked at this hill online a number of times - what I thought was interesting is the shape of the fields running along its "right" or east side. Could this be a wide cursus formation? Seems very wide for a cursus but again its unusual.

Re Knockderc - there are two Knockderc's in the area. Another one is over towards Pallasgreen.

Relating to this Knockderc I understand that like Knocksouna it may have been a medieval inaugeration site with the "Cathaoir Baelee" on top. Again I found this on the online version of http://books.google.ie/books/about/Royal_Inauguration_in_Gaelic_Ireland.html?id=cscQwIzZr70C

I understand this part of limerick was full of lakes at one stage. The town of Emly nearby was once on the shore of a large lake. I have a copy of an article from the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland (1920) by Rev Lynch about this lake if any one is interested.

Fries-With-That · 03-08-2013 7:19pm

Can anyone give me an explanation for these markings, the first link is OSI map.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,606330,685789,6,9

Its very interesting to go through the various maps and to see the different ways this area is depicted.

This link is the area now on Bing maps I find the faint outline in the grass to the north of the circle indicates that the long rectangular area on the OSI maps was actually attached to the ring fort, and there appears to be another outline attached at the northern most end. This outline to the north can't be seen on any of the OSI maps.

http://binged.it/13DBBzE

slowburner · 03-08-2013 9:03pm

Fries-With-That wrote: »

Can anyone give me an explanation for these markings, the first link is OSI map.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,606330,685789,6,9

Its very interesting to go through the various maps and to see the different ways this area is depicted.

This link is the area now on Bing maps I find the faint outline in the grass to the north of the circle indicates that the long rectangular area on the OSI maps was actually attached to the ring fort, and there appears to be another outline attached at the northern most end. This outline to the north can't be seen on any of the OSI maps.

http://binged.it/13DBBzE

I think the rectilinear enclosure is probably C18th/19th landscaping but that's just a guess.
There may be the remains of two enclosures in the area north of the rectilinear area.
The northernmost one is subcircular with its western edge defined by a bank running ENE/WSW and a possible entrance to the east.
The next one south is circular and may also have an entrance to the east. It might be visible in the OSI 1995 (b/w image) although changing field use doesn't help.
Things might be more evident on the ground. Or if you want to use the jargon; 'this could do with some ground truthing'. :pac:

I'd be inclined to notify the National Monuments Service on this one.

Fries-With-That · 04-08-2013 9:08am

slowburner wrote: »

I think the rectilinear enclosure is probably C18th/19th landscaping but that's just a guess.
There may be the remains of two enclosures in the area north of the rectilinear area.
The northernmost one is subcircular with its western edge defined by a bank running ENE/WSW and a possible entrance to the east.
The next one south is circular and may also have an entrance to the east. It might be visible in the OSI 1995 (b/w image) although changing field use doesn't help.
Things might be more evident on the ground. Or if you want to use the jargon; 'this could do with some ground truthing'. :pac:

I'd be inclined to notify the National Monuments Service on this one.

How would a person go about this.

bawn79 · 04-08-2013 10:27am

From the archaeology.ie website

Anyone wishing to report a monument should check the public viewer to ascertain if it is already on the national database. An ASI Monument Report Formmust be used to report a 'new' monument. Copyright of any information or supporting documentation supplied to the National Monuments Service as part of this form will rest with the Department.

http://www.archaeology.ie/media/archeologyie/PDFS/ASI%20Monument%20Report%20Form%20%20%28June%202012%29.pdf

I'm not far away from Dunkerrin so could take a spin out to have a look on the ground over the next few days. I've seen you post in the Nenagh thread "fries-with-that" so your more than welcome to look first if you want.

Fries-With-That · 04-08-2013 11:58am

bawn79 wrote: »

From the archaeology.ie website

Anyone wishing to report a monument should check the public viewer to ascertain if it is already on the national database. An ASI Monument Report Formmust be used to report a 'new' monument. Copyright of any information or supporting documentation supplied to the National Monuments Service as part of this form will rest with the Department.

http://www.archaeology.ie/media/archeologyie/PDFS/ASI%20Monument%20Report%20Form%20%20%28June%202012%29.pdf

I'm not far away from Dunkerrin so could take a spin out to have a look on the ground over the next few days. I've seen you post in the Nenagh thread "fries-with-that" so your more than welcome to look first if you want.

Please do take a look, I would not be in a position to look myself.

I'd appreciate any feedback you can offer.

I have been looking at the OSI historical maps and it appears there are at least two more similar double ring forts in the Ballymackey area.

I'm inclined to think looking at the pictures on Bing that this one might have been a triple and if it was is that unique.

The reason I'm suggesting this, is that on the older OSI maps the rectangular area connected to the north of the listed ringfort is very precise in its location and direction.

It also appears to join with the other two rings that are partially visible to the north.

Is it not conceivable that a large family in a productive area living in one ringfort decided to expand the complex for a son or daughter, as happens today son/daughter gets a site on parents farm.

I also imagine that the many closely located ringforts in any geographical area were inhabited by members of an extended family.

As happens today, we see many families living in the same area and depending on the influences on sons or daughters some are happy with a 3/4bed 1600sq ft home whilst some decide to build mansions.

In the time ringforts were built were people really any different, Johnny has a 25 footer and he has only 3 children, so Paddy with his brood of 7 decides to add on an extension.

Over simplification I know but does it not make a little sense.

slowburner · 04-08-2013 8:10pm

bawn79 wrote: »

From the archaeology.ie website

Anyone wishing to report a monument should check the public viewer to ascertain if it is already on the national database. An ASI Monument Report Formmust be used to report a 'new' monument. Copyright of any information or supporting documentation supplied to the National Monuments Service as part of this form will rest with the Department.

http://www.archaeology.ie/media/archeologyie/PDFS/ASI%20Monument%20Report%20Form%20%20%28June%202012%29.pdf

I'm not far away from Dunkerrin so could take a spin out to have a look on the ground over the next few days. I've seen you post in the Nenagh thread "fries-with-that" so your more than welcome to look first if you want.

Please post up a pic or two of your site visit.
If you can bring a ranging rod or something else for scale, so much the better.

slowburner · 04-08-2013 8:41pm

Fries-With-That wrote: »

Please do take a look, I would not be in a position to look myself.
I'd appreciate any feedback you can offer.
I have been looking at the OSI historical maps and it appears there are at least two more similar double ring forts in the Ballymackey area. I'm inclined to think looking at the pictures on Bing that this one might have been a triple and if it was is that unique.

If you mean by double and triple ringforts that they have two or three banks and fosses, it's much better to describe them as bivallate and trivallate. Otherwise it can be confusing

The reason I'm suggesting this, is that on the older OSI maps the rectangular area connected to the north of the listed ringfort is very precise in its location and direction.

The first edition OSI map is one of the most accurate pieces of work in the history of cartography. If the 1838 map says it was there, then it was exactly there.

Is it not conceivable that a large family in a productive area living in one ringfort decided to expand the complex for a son or daughter, as happens today son/daughter gets a site on parents farm.

I also imagine that the many closely located ringforts in any geographical area were inhabited by members of an extended family.

As happens today, we see many families living in the same area and depending on the influences on sons or daughters some are happy with a 3/4bed 1600sq ft home whilst some decide to build mansions.

In the time ringforts were built were people really any different, Johnny has a 25 footer and he has only 3 children, so Paddy with his brood of 7 decides to add on an extension.

Over simplification I know but does it not make a little sense.

It makes more than a little sense.
Paddy O'Ironage was no different to you and me. Nor were his cousins Seán O'Neolithic, Gobnait O'Bronzeage or Gearóid MacMesolithic.
Where you and I have Intel processors, the combustion engine and Food4u.com, our predecessors had stone, bronze or iron tools and they knew how to make them, they probably had a rich tradition of story telling, and a knowledge of the where and when of the foods available in their environment - and more importantly, how to obtain and process that food with maximum efficiency.
Ask yourself this amusing question: if Gearóid MacMesolithic was timewarped into your place and you into his - who would survive?
I digress.
I recently found an unrecorded ringfort in the Wicklow foothills. It is a very well preserved one indeed. On the way to visit it with a colleague, we found another ringfort of almost exactly the same dimensions a little further down the slope. It was clearly earlier, based on the degree of weathering.
In this particular instance, I suspect that as the climate warmed up, the upper ground became more attractive and so the O'Ironage family moved up the hill to be closer to the new pastures.
Of course I could be wrong, and the new ringfort was really the 'latest thing'. No doubt there were fashionable areas to build then, just as there are now.

Simon.d · 04-08-2013 8:51pm

Some pretty well defined cropmarks I managed to capture today next to Butlerstown Castle down here in Waterford:

More on the Blog here: http://aerialarchaeology.blogspot.ie/2013/08/butlerstown-castle-cropmarks.html

bawn79 · 04-08-2013 8:53pm

Fries-With-That wrote: »

Please do take a look, I would not be in a position to look myself.

I have been looking at the OSI historical maps and it appears there are at least two more similar double ring forts in the Ballymackey area.

.

I'll hopefully get away for an hour tomorrow to have a look on the ground.

Those ring-forts - would one of them be Raththurles? http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,590975,680145,5,8

slowburner · 04-08-2013 9:21pm

Did you get any other pictures before the drought broke? It must have been one of the best summers for years for APs.

Tidy looking cropmarks in Butlerstown and the Faithlegg cropmark looks pretty definite.

Simon.d · 04-08-2013 9:35pm

slowburner wrote: »

Did you get any other pictures before the drought broke? It must have been one of the best summers for years for APs.

Tidy looking cropmarks in Butlerstown and the Faithlegg cropmark looks pretty definite.

Didn't get out much during the dry spell as had no time with work, but I think we're still able to get the fruits of it.. The sharp contrast in the Butlerstown one is probably a result of it, as the grass growing over stone was held back earlier on, delaying it's ripening now, even though we're getting a bit of rain...

Have a few potential photos here and there, but nothing really definitive.. Will be out tomorrow again hopefully on the look out for grassy fields gone to seed..

Seen & Found

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