Seen & Found

slowburner

Here's a place to post and discuss pictures of sites or artifacts of general archaeological interest.
If you are not sure where to post up material you have seen or found, post here.

Please note that all archaeological objects must be reported to the National Museum of Ireland. See the stickies on the landing page.

slowburner

I'll start the ball rolling with this.
These stones protruding through the dense carpet of pine needles are grave markers - all that is left of a cemetery which fell into disuse in 1130.

Mountainsandh

Great Slowburner, I'll get clicking on my lime kilns and might call to the field where the old barracks walls stand.

slowburner

slowburner wrote: »

I'll start the ball rolling with this.
These stones protruding through the dense carpet of pine needles are grave markers - all that is left of a cemetery which fell into disuse in 1130.

Interestingly, the SMR states that these markers were not visible when the site was visited in 1997.

slowburner

The stone on the right is a confirmed neolithic, cup marked stone, which may have been reused as a grave marker in a later period.
Whoever reused the stone, must have felt that the crude resemblance to a face gave it a certain significance.
The stone on the left is an in situ grave marker - probably medieval.

Mountainsandh

Interesting stuff.
I pass my old barracks walls every day and still haven't stopped to take pics, will do it some time soon.

slowburner

1,790 feet above sea level is this curious circle of stones.


The cairn (?) is situated in an early ditch, visible from the air, but not clear on the ground.



It's an intriguing area, stuffed with history and prehistory, but a gruelling two hour climb. Much more to be seen and found!

dvcireland

Pictures from yesterday 13th April 2012, I was very surprised on what I found (after a bit of research).

Motte and Bailey at St Helens (Malahide/Portmarnock) Predecessor to Malahide Castle

the Talbot family resided in Malahide for the next eight centuries. Their first stronghold was possibly a motte and bailey castle, the earthwork remains of a motte survive at Wheatfields southeast of Malahide, before a stone castle was built on the site of the current Malahide Castle.

dvcireland

item labelled ad "Patricks Well" on OSi map.

located near Paddy's Hill between Malahide and Portmarnock

slowburner

No shortage of St.Patrick's wells on this island of ours.
It is an odd looking stone - there seems to be a fair bit of quartz in it.
Has the well dried up?

Mountainsandh

Hi Slowburner, just wondering if you think this stone is an odd shape too ? It is quite small, guessing approx. 60cm tall. There are some more stones lying around, which I suspect were once part of a stone wall now deconstructed. This is very near me, but I had the kids in the car and could only shoot it from the fence, poor quality pics, will walk to it when I get a chance and take better pics.
This is not listed on my Waterford Arch. Survey book, as far as I remember.

interesting stone crop by mountainsandheather, on Flickr


interesting stone by mountainsandheather, on Flickr

more context

interesting stone more context bis by mountainsandheather, on Flickr

slowburner

I'm only an amateur in these matters, so hopefully someone who is professional, will drop by with a more educated opinion.

I do think it's a curious stone, all the same. It is a big stone for a field wall - perhaps it was there beforehand, and was later incorporated into the field wall.
It is very unlikely that the stone ended up that way naturally.
It's a bit difficult to see any remains of the wall - it looks more like a scattered selection of stones. If it is close to a field boundary, it could be the result of field stone clearance.
Maybe you could take a picture or two of the wider context. This would help to see if the associated stones are part of a wall or something else.
More often than not, stones cleared from a field will have plough marks - these can easily be misinterpreted as I should know

I'm sure it would be worthwhile to have a closer look to see if there is any sign of the hand of man, especially signs of shaping or boring - these might not be immediately obvious, and could need a bit of close scrutiny.

You have an eye for more than the 2 dimensional landscape now, I'll bet
Looking forward to more pictures.

Mountainsandh

Thanks for that, I'll go back and take more pics allright, and will take plenty of the context. I have been looking at this ever since we moved here, and although there is nothing on the survey book, it's just so distinctive seen from the road (as in the pic) that it has kept me intrigued nevertheless.

Looking at the maps on OSI, yes, it's a wall, or the remnants of. There are some marks, hard to tell, either square or circular, and very very slight, could be anything really, around that spot. If the 6" maps showed a dwelling, it could have been a corner stone I suppose, but there is nothing there. Here is a collage of Bing and OSI aerial views. It could simply have been a big stone damaged while being moved.

stone by mountainsandheather, on Flickr

And yes, I am looking at the landscape a lot, and differently, but have been for quite a while, it's just now I'm attempting to learn a bit about it. I look at every ditch and mound with a suspicious eye, and my ramblings keep Mr Mountains highly entertained (ehhh...not) on our campervan journeys (great for spotting features, the view from the camper ).

slowburner

It's a gate post, more than likely.
In the Bing image, you can see the line of a pathway which leads from the gate at the road, and you can see the gateway through the field wall quite clearly in the OSI (2000) image. In the same image, you can also see the darker area of the path from gate to gate.
The OSI 2000 orthophotographic is a great source of information because the survey was carried out in a really dry period. Underground features with a lot of stone, or those that are compacted, tend to hold more water than open soil. So, in a prolonged dry period, these areas show up as being greener than the surrounding areas. The compacted soil and/or stone of the path is very clear in that image.
There seems to be a lot of loose stone in the fields. That could indicate habitation at some time, or it could just be a stony upland field.

You need to identify a really interesting feature, one that you are certain about from your research. Then suggest a picnic in that spot. Gently allow Mr.MS to notice the features, all by himself - you never know, he might get hooked. Alternatively, you drive and let him do the spotting

Mountainsandh

Lefanta by mountainsandheather, on Flickr

Not much to see, but such a great spot I had to keep a record for myself, and thought I'd share. Nice layby and informative panel on the spot too.

slowburner

A Mesolithic site?
There's not much about it online, apart from a reference to an excavation in the '80s.

Mountainsandh

Don't mind me, just being over enthusiastic again I'm afraid...
It is just a mesolithic site, where a few bits were recovered, but to me it seems really important because I'm in the middle of reading about these things.
I was reading about the potential for more discoveries down here since this area escaped the ice, and of hope some day mesolithic human bones could finally be found.
I only found out recently about the "Dungarvan valley" caves, where bones of wooly mammoth, wolf, giant Irish deer and bear were found. Some of these caves are still there, and have not been fully excavated, some have been destroyed. Some human bones were found, not mesolithic though.
From what I gather more excavations/investigations were planned, but I doubt they ever took place, and that they will happen in the near future.
The Waterford County Museum site is a brilliant site, full of information and brilliant collections of old photographs too.
http://www.waterfordcountymuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/5/

a bit in p.26 there : http://www.epa.ie/licences/lic_eDMS/090151b280294c64.pdf
lots more interesting in that report too about other time periods.

this too : http://www.waterfordcoco.ie/en/services/conservationandheritage/archaeology/firstirishpeopleindungarvanvalley/

Co Waterford is not exactly hectic as regards neolithic heritage, so it is nice to find excitement in other respects.

slowburner

That's what it's all about really - the physical connection to the past, particularly when it's so far beyond written history.
It seems to be a remarkable place. Any idea what finds turned up and dates?

Mountainsandh

Yes, it's listed in the pdf above, which was an application to do work on a nearby factory or something.

The proposed development site is situated within a wider archaeological landscape that features a diverse range of sites from prehistoric through to post-medieval times. Several early Mesolithic sites,dating to c.6000BC, were identified by Prof. Peter Woodman in the nearby Blackwater valley in the 1980's, including one at Lefanta, near Cappoquin. Among the scatter of artefacts found at Lefanta
were bladelets, scrapers and a flint core (O'Sullivan & McCarthy 1999, 9-11). The higher slopes of the Blackwater valley remained unglaciated during the last lee Age, preserving such sites. During the Neolithic period, c.3500-2000BC,farmers expressed a preference for lighter, easier to till soils in upland areas, and it has been suggested that the rich heavy soils of the Blackwater area were sparsely
populated at this time. Kilgreaney Cave, a Neolithic site near Cappoquin, revealed evidence of activity at the cave from the Neolithic onwards (ibid. 12). There is a surprising sparsity of Bronze Age remains in Co. Waterford, given the presence of copper ores around Ballymacarbary and Bunmahon, and the same applies to the Iron Age.

Mountainsandh

I also found a pdf listing all the caves in the area with photographs and diagrams, and analysing them one at a time in great precision, if that's of interest to anyone lurking or yourself.
http://www.gsi.ie/NR/rdonlyres/80C42EE2-C9D1-4888-9628-5AD3A09C8A93/0/Waterford_section2_site_reports_part1.pdf

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

http://www.gsi.ie/NR/rdonlyres/80C42EE2-C9D1-4888-9628-5AD3A09C8A93/0/Waterford_section2_site_reports_part1.pdf

The caves listed in that pdf are fascinating. It's surprising though, that the authors say so little about the archaeology when they were trying to make the case for the conservation of the caves.
This remark seems somewhat cursory -

The cave was excavated in 1879 and as well as human remains of various types, animal bones recovered included bear, Giant Irish Deer and reindeer. In 1928 arctic fox remains were added to the list. Collections from the cave are housed in the National Museum of Ireland (human remains in Antiquities Division, animal bones in Natural History Division) but all could benefit from a modern reassessment.

(Re. Ballynamintra p.9 in the pdf above)
The NLI lists a reference to Ballynamintra in its holdings:
Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy. Series II, Vol. II. 1879 - 88. Pp. 73 - 78
I searched here but couldn't find it.

BFDCH.

slowburner wrote: »

I'll start the ball rolling with this.
These stones protruding through the dense carpet of pine needles are grave markers - all that is left of a cemetery which fell into disuse in 1130.

really? where in wicklow is this? It looks like the type of stuff you see all over the place in North wicklow. pretty cool if that's what it is.

'found' the remains of a house (probably not a home) up at the top of powerscourt waterfall the other day.

Mountainsandh

slowburner wrote: »

This remark seems somewhat cursory -
QUOTE]

Ah ! I thought the same of the same remark... what bones ? how old ? I have never been to the National Museum, so thought I will just look out for "some bones/remains" some day if I go up there.
And what about the "modern reassessment" remarks ???
Could there be something of importance there that was just brushed aside and boxed up at the time ? like : "ah sure they're just old bones, not going to spend the money on dating them...".

Slowburner would you believe I have been living here 15 years, and never, NEVER have I heard anyone mention the Dungarvan caves, and the discovery of Mammoths' bones in a cave in Dungarvan itself (Shandon). The caves were dismantled after excavation as they were part of a quarry I think, and the land was used to build the Cork Marts.
That's baffling. A lot of people here don't seem to know about it, and/or care.

slowburner

BFDCH. wrote: »

really? where in wicklow is this? It looks like the type of stuff you see all over the place in North wicklow. pretty cool if that's what it is.

'found' the remains of a house (probably not a home) up at the top of powerscourt waterfall the other day.

I'm not sure how true the story is, but it goes along the lines of; a dam was built above the falls, and a viewing platform was built beneath. This was so that a substantial cascade could be created on demand for the visit of Queen Victoria.
When they gave it a go, it washed away the platform and with it went the gentlemen viewing the spectacle.
They obviously abandoned the plan, and what you saw might be the remains of the dam/reservoir.

Plenty of upright lumps of stone in N.Wicklow alright. They'd really need to be in a context or some sort of order though, if they were to be grave markers.

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

slowburner wrote: »

This remark seems somewhat cursory -
QUOTE]

Ah ! I thought the same of the same remark... what bones ? how old ? I have never been to the National Museum, so thought I will just look out for "some bones/remains" some day if I go up there.
And what about the "modern reassessment" remarks ???
Could there be something of importance there that was just brushed aside and boxed up at the time ? like : "ah sure they're just old bones, not going to spend the money on dating them...".

Slowburner would you believe I have been living here 15 years, and never, NEVER have I heard anyone mention the Dungarvan caves, and the discovery of Mammoths' bones in a cave in Dungarvan itself (Shandon). The caves were dismantled after excavation as they were part of a quarry I think, and the land was used to build the Cork Marts.
That's baffling. A lot of people here don't seem to know about it, and/or care.

It would be easy to think that people don't care, but I find it's just that people usually don't know. I also find that when people become aware of what's under their noses, that they are positive about it 99% of the time. Unless they have a specific reason for not wanting it known about.

Now you have a job to do.

Mountainsandh

Untitled by mountainsandheather, on Flickr
more close ups on my flickr.
Didn't take any more as my memory card was full (sigh), and the inquisitive herd of cows there was staring at me (think "the birds" except they were cows ). I'm not very brave when it comes to cows.
So I'll return when they're gone from there.

Beside the stone, there are 2 big boulders, one of them an obvious conglomerate sort of stone, with this big layer of what looks like lime to me (there are loads of lime kilns around). It is solid, and white, like whitewash, but hard. I thought the big splat of this on the boulder and the patterns on it were ... interesting ?

COLAISTE FILM-29 by mountainsandheather, on Flickr
I don't think that boulder is man made, but it could be I suppose if it was part of a wall/gate post.

edit : the boulder close up is seen on this pic in the background, the one to the left.

Untitled by mountainsandheather, on Flickr
edit bis : oh, and I checked, there was never any habitation on this spot.

slowburner

They're big lumps of stone for a wall.
It'll be interesting to see them in a wider, cow free context.

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Beside the stone, there are 2 big boulders, one of them an obvious conglomerate sort of stone, with this big layer of what looks like lime to me (there are loads of lime kilns around). It is solid, and white, like whitewash, but hard. I thought the big splat of this on the boulder and the patterns on it were ... interesting ?

I'm a bit puzzled by this. It looks very much like a clay which has been sun baked.
I can see that the stone is a conglomerate, but my gut says it's natural. But then the clay like cake seems to form part of the stone - as if it was a mortar which was exposed to the sun before it was dry, and which then cracked.
It could be that the stone was sitting in a clay or marl and at some point it was moved. The clay stuck to it and cracked as it dried out. It is very likely that there is a heavy clay or marl around the boulders - the rushes indicate persistent wet and marl is frequently associated with rushes in this sort of situation.
When you get complex patterns like this, it easy to 'read' things into it. I think all the fissures are natural, but I certainly see how the curved marks stand out.

Here's an example of the way we can superimpose meaning or symbolism. It's actually an appropriate interpretation for this particular field and its residents.;) (Forgive my lack of graphic skills)



Is there any local knowledge about the site?
In the wine trade, they say one look at the label on the bottle, is worth twenty years experience.
Local knowledge has a similar effect

Mountainsandh

I find it strange too, but the white colour is what is most striking to me. Yes the area is wet, and in the same field a distance away, there is a spring I think. But the clay around here is brown, and often with that yellow clay they have a name for, the bad one. (excuse my ignorance)

I thought maybe what might explain the curvy shapes could be pebbles embedded underneath ?

There's no local story I can think of, most of the farmers are friendly and local, but this farmer lives away and really only comes around to tend to the cattle. I will ask the farmer who sold us our house and land, he's young but there is a standing stone in his field at the back of our house, and his family have a lot of land around, so he might be interested and might know something.

One of our friends is older, and knows a good few stories, although they're often hazy in his memory since they're things he heard or witnessed as a child. He says that one local fellow carved some stones somewhere near me (but not in that spot), I think he carved faces maybe of the Virgin, or something. Some male faces too. People knew for a while where the stones were (in the forest-ry), then forgot, then someone came across them, then as far as I recall, it was forgotten again. I wonder would the same fellow have practised on any local stones that were soft enough to be carved ?

Mountainsandh

I hadn't seen the cow by the way... but now I see it, it's more the straight lines I'm looking at ... I know it's all imagination really, but look at this design, if we did indulge in a bit of imagining...:D
http://www.irishmegaliths.org.uk/poitiers.jpg

slowburner

It's a cow looking at a massive clover leaf.

The Poitiers carving looks like a medieval mason's mark - something like the carver's signature?
The tooling marks look medieval, I'll guess C.11th/12th?

There was an episode of Time Team on a few weeks back where they were excavating a Viking burial site on the Isle of Man.
On one stone, there was an Ogham inscription. The script couldn't have been any more than 8-9 mm high, and it was incredibly faint. They were little more than scratches.
There were considerable doubts that it was Ogham at all, but it was confirmed and translated by an expert.
How on earth they spotted it, I don't know.
It made me wonder if similar inscriptions were, or are present in this country, and if they are, how many might have slipped under the radar in past excavations.

Somewhere else on this forum, I posted a pic of a Wicklow Ogham stone inscribed with the word 'Votus' or 'Voti' (I think).
For the life of me, I could not see the script, when I was there, or in any of my pics - but they are there and documented.
So it just goes to show, we might superimpose our imaginings on things that aren't really there, and we might completely miss things that really are there.

Mountainsandh

Yes there's probably loads undiscovered.

There's a story in my locality, that says that a number of heavily inscribed stones were found by a farmer on his land. In the words of my older friend, who was a young boy at the time, "there was lots of writing on them". The farmer didn't want the men from the town to come down and take over his field, so with the help of local men, and some machinery, they dug up the field and shoved the whole lot down in the whole, breaking some in the process, and covered them well up again. My friend says that he was there, but can't remember where the spot is at all. Some years later some archeologists are said to have come around as they had heard about it, but they could not locate anything.

My friend's versions are likely to change a bit every time he tells the story, but I should ask him to tell me again. He loves the old stories, but tends to romance or improvise a bit I'm sure, depending on what he remembers that day. He's not that old either, but just took notice of everything that was happening around.
He remembers when the electricity was switched on in our area fairly well too, such a great story !

slowburner

There are a couple of photos of the stone mentioned above in this article
before the inscription was translated.
The full report is here.
http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/reports/62511/speke-keeill-mount-murray-hotel

pueblo

Hi, I'd like to get some opinions on the attached pics showing pieces of pottery found in a river. I'm hoping it's late bronze age!

Some photos attached

Thanks

pueblo

pueblo wrote: »

Hi, I'd like to get some opinions on the attached pics showing pieces of pottery found in a river. I'm hoping it's late bronze age!

Some photos attached

Thanks

Don't all reply at once...:-)

Anyone with any opinions on my sherds?

olly_mac

I am no pottery expert but the sherds here look too 'compact' to be Late BA to me. They remind me more of medieval ware. I may be wrong though!!

slowburner

pueblo wrote: »

Hi, I'd like to get some opinions on the attached pics showing pieces of pottery found in a river. I'm hoping it's late bronze age!

Some photos attached

Thanks

I'm no expert either, but I would hazard a guess at post medieval, maybe C.16th at the very latest, probably more recent.
I'd base this guess partly on the fact that the sherd edges are hardly worn.
If they had been tossed about in the river for 500 odd years, they'd be as rounded as beach pebbles.
If they were bronze age, they would be very unlikely to survive in a river at all. 2,500 years of abrasion by a river would leave only dust.
They are almost certainly handmade; if that tells us anything.
The rings have been scored while the vessels were on a potter's wheel, rather than the earlier technique of impressing cord in the wet clay.

The fragments might date from different periods too - could you tell us a bit about the circumstances of their discovery?

Below is a (fairly) similar sherd from the later bronze age for comparison.
One important thing to note is that the gloss on the sherd below is a patina from handling and cleaning, it's not a glaze. The glaze on your sherds looks more like a salt glaze which was popular from the C.17th.

I hope someone with a bit of expertise in this area helps out, because they are interesting looking sherds.

pueblo

slowburner wrote: »

I'm no expert either, but I would hazard a guess at post medieval, maybe C.16th at the very latest, probably more recent.
I'd base this guess partly on the fact that the sherd edges are hardly worn.
If they had been tossed about in the river for 500 odd years, they'd be as rounded as beach pebbles.
If they were bronze age, they would be very unlikely to survive in a river at all. 2,500 years of abrasion by a river would leave only dust.
They are almost certainly handmade; if that tells us anything.
The rings have been scored while the vessels were on a potter's wheel, rather than the earlier technique of impressing cord in the wet clay.

The fragments might date from different periods too - could you tell us a bit about the circumstances of their discovery?

Below is a (fairly) similar sherd from the later bronze age for comparison.
One important thing to note is that the gloss on the sherd below is a patina from handling and cleaning, it's not a glaze. The glaze on your sherds looks more like a salt glaze which was popular from the C.17th.

I hope someone with a bit of expertise in this area helps out, because they are interesting looking sherds.

Thanks for the replies. No expert here, mho only.

They sherds were all collected from the river nore.

There is a natural gravel break in the river and this seems to catch alot of pottery sherds after heavy flood.
When the river levels drop I often pick up pieces and have a good collection

The picture you post is interesting as I have spent hours searching pottery identification sites etc to try and find something similar to that 'ribbed' design! It is quite similar to my pieces, source?

My theory is that these pieces are buried in silt/mud over thousands (?) of years and sit as disposed rubbish buried beneath the river Nore only to be dislodged by a combination of recent flood works in Kilkenny and subsequent heavy flooding causing the sherds to drift downstream.

I know there was a strong medieval pottery industry in Kilkenny near what is now the MacDonagh Junction shopping centre. I believe the river probably holds a vast amount of debris from multiple periods.

I have four sherds with that same design. The spacing between the grooves is almost identical. Some of are quite thick approx 17mm implying quite a large vessel? Also the reason the sherds aren't heavily 'rolled' or water worn is explained possibly by the fact they were only recently dislodged?

Thanks again to you both for the replies.

slowburner

pueblo wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. No expert here, mho only.

They sherds were all collected from the river nore a few miles downstream of Kilkenny city - yes it is a city :-)-

There is a natural gravel break in the river and this seems to catch alot of pottery sherds after heavy flood.
When the river levels drop I often pick up pieces and have a good collection

The picture you post is interesting as I have spent hours searching pottery identification sites etc to try and find something similar to that 'ribbed' design! It is quite similar to my pieces, source?

My theory is that these pieces are buried in silt/mud over thousands (?) of years and sit as disposed rubbish buried beneath the river Nore only to be dislodged by a combination of recent flood works in Kilkenny and subsequent heavy flooding causing the sherds to drift downstream.

I know there was a strong medieval pottery industry in Kilkenny near what is now the MacDonagh Junction shopping centre. I believe the river probably holds a vast amount of debris from multiple periods.

I have four sherds with that same design. The spacing between the grooves is almost identical. Some of are quite thick approx 17mm implying quite a large vessel? Also the reason the sherds aren't heavily 'rolled' or water worn is explained possibly by the fact they were only recently dislodged?

Thanks again to you both for the replies.

The pottery industry near the MacDonagh junction is the most probable source of the sherds. Is that the Highhays pottery works?
8,000 medieval sherds were found at No.1, Irishtown. See pdf below.

Would it be worth while to pay a visit to Rothe House?

richban

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I also found a pdf listing all the caves in the area with photographs and diagrams, and analysing them one at a time in great precision, if that's of interest to anyone lurking or yourself.
http://www.gsi.ie/NR/rdonlyres/80C42EE2-C9D1-4888-9628-5AD3A09C8A93/0/Waterford_section2_site_reports_part1.pdf

That GSI report on the waterford caves is fantastic thanks - I was horrified to read

'Cave surveys done in 1990 by Moldywarps Speleo Group show
there were three other caves (Through Cave, Tip Cave, Maze Cave) but these have been buried with earth and rocks by the landowner in farm works on the top of the knoll between 1990 and 1998. However the 2011 visit indicated further recent landscaping, including the entrance slope to Well Cave.

theres a photo inside of landscaping which seem to have destroyed 2 no. cave entrances - 'Tip Cave' and 'Maze Cave'- by a farmer - why has he not been prosecuted? This is an outrage

slowburner

richban wrote: »

That GSI report on the waterford caves is fantastic thanks - I was horrified to read

'Cave surveys done in 1990 by Moldywarps Speleo Group show
there were three other caves (Through Cave, Tip Cave, Maze Cave) but these have been buried with earth and rocks by the landowner in farm works on the top of the knoll between 1990 and 1998. However the 2011 visit indicated further recent landscaping, including the entrance slope to Well Cave.

theres a photo inside of landscaping which seem to have destroyed 2 no. cave entrances - 'Tip Cave' and 'Maze Cave'- by a farmer - why has he not been prosecuted? This is an outrage

All (?) these caves are registered National Monuments.
Perhaps it would be worth bringing the matter to the attention of the county heritage officer.
There is also a very active group associated with mining heritage along the Copper Coast -
http://www.coppercoastgeopark.com
I'd imagine they'd be interested.

Mountainsandh

Richban, I thought the same at first, but it has to be said that some of the landscaping he did was probably to close off holes/skylights that could have been dangerous to kids and cattle. Farmers here farm actively, it's more important to them than a cave that nobody is coming to look at anyway, and it's mentioned in one of the reports that some stalagtites or some such were destroyed by kids, so I'm sure with possibly a few kids hanging around the land, the farmer was just after safety. Imagine if you were left on your own with a cave on your land, and dangerous spots, and nobody from govt ever coming to even look at it, you might end up doing the same.

It's a long time since, and I wonder if anyone has kept an eye on all these caves, and if anyone is planning more investigations.

It is said that some could have chambers that have not been found/opened... Paleolithic Deise fellow waiting to be discovered ?

Mountainsandh

slowburner wrote: »

All (?) these caves are registered National Monuments.
Perhaps it would be worth bringing the matter to the attention of the county heritage officer.
There is also a very active group associated with mining heritage along the Copper Coast -
http://www.coppercoastgeopark.com
I'd imagine they'd be interested.

It's not right to be leaving someone in a potentially dangerous situation though, I suppose if it was me I would be kicking up a fuss with whoever on those grounds.
When a castle on somebody's grounds is about to crumble down, does the heritage crowd send their own crowd to work on making it safe ?
I think I have seen a thread about that somewhere on boards actually...

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

It's not right to be leaving someone in a potentially dangerous situation though, I suppose if it was me I would be kicking up a fuss with whoever on those grounds.
When a castle on somebody's grounds is about to crumble down, does the heritage crowd send their own crowd to work on making it safe ?
I think I have seen a thread about that somewhere on boards actually...

A landowner has a right to make his or her property safe, but not to destroy a National Monument.
Other owners fenced off the entrances rather than bulldozing them.

Fencing them off is conservation - bulldozing the entrance is not.

The landowner who filled in the entrance is liable to pay for any remedial work.

Mountainsandh

I know and agree, it's not right. He might have tried the fencing off before unsuccessfully.

Either way he should be stopped and there should really be more investigations done down this way, that's for sure. So many interesting things that could potentially be discovered. They might start with redating the bones up in the Nat. Mus. ! surely that's not too costly.

pueblo

slowburner wrote: »

The pottery industry near the MacDonagh junction is the most probable source of the sherds. Is that the Highhays pottery works?
8,000 medieval sherds were found at No.1, Irishtown. See pdf below.

Would it be worth while to pay a visit to Rothe House?

Haven't heard of the Highhays pottery works, may well be...

PDF is interesting will digest later, thanks.

and yes a visit to Rothe house or Kilkenny Archeological Society may be in order..

Will update with anything further on the sherds

richban

Thanks for tip off -

I just sent an email to Waterford County Council Heritage officer Bernadette Guest (bguest@waterfordcoco.ie) - 3 cave entrances blocked up - deliberately or otherwise since the 1990 survey and levelling works done as recently as 2011 - my god, what a great little country!

Meathlass

pueblo wrote: »

Hi, I'd like to get some opinions on the attached pics showing pieces of pottery found in a river. I'm hoping it's late bronze age!

Some photos attached

Thanks

Hi OP,

These are all Medieval sherds, mostly Dublin Type Ware, some may be Dublin Type Coarse Ware but can't tell just from photos. They may also be locally made Kilkenny Ware which would be local variations of the Dublin Type Ware. There also seems to be a piece of Glazed Red Earthenware there as well. You also have one base which is nice. If you can get your hands on Clare McCutcheon's book on the excavations from Woodquay The Medieval Pottery from the Waterfront Excavations at Wood Quay, Dublin (Medieval Dublin Excavations, 1962-81) it has lots of great photos in it. Age wise you're looking at 13th to late 14th century and 14th century on for the Glazed Red Earthenware.

Mountainsandh

richban wrote: »

Thanks for tip off -

I just sent an email to Waterford County Council Heritage officer Bernadette Guest (bguest@waterfordcoco.ie) - 3 cave entrances blocked up - deliberately or otherwise since the 1990 survey and levelling works done as recently as 2011 - my god, what a great little country!

Did you notice on most reports, it says "not commercially viable", so I'd say straight away when a report like that comes back, it gets shoved away in a drawer.

edit : oh, and keep us updated and well done.

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Did you notice on most reports, it says "not commercially viable", so I'd say straight away when a report like that comes back, it gets shoved away in a drawer.

edit : oh, and keep us updated and well done.

'Not commercially viable' for what, do you think?

pueblo

Meathlass wrote: »

Hi OP,

These are all Medieval sherds, mostly Dublin Type Ware, some may be Dublin Type Coarse Ware but can't tell just from photos. They may also be locally made Kilkenny Ware which would be local variations of the Dublin Type Ware. There also seems to be a piece of Glazed Red Earthenware there as well. You also have one base which is nice. If you can get your hands on Clare McCutcheon's book on the excavations from Woodquay The Medieval Pottery from the Waterfront Excavations at Wood Quay, Dublin (Medieval Dublin Excavations, 1962-81) it has lots of great photos in it. Age wise you're looking at 13th to late 14th century and 14th century on for the Glazed Red Earthenware.

Many thanks for your reply. I will indeed try and source a copy of Clare McCutcheons book.

I have a lot more sherds, probably 100 or so of similar type pieces, I think it would be worth having someone local look at them.

Most interesting, and thanks again.