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Seen & Found

1…34689…20

Comments

  • #252
    Neutronale
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭Neutronale


    Excellent pic of souterrains at Newtownbalregan...

    Newtownbalregan_souterrain___1__40_pmod..jpg


  • #253
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Great pic N. :) Really shows the scale of those structures.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #254
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭bawn79


    I spotted this recently on a new aerial photo on google earth. (The rectangular formation)

    http://goo.gl/maps/Ao9Ct

    Doesn't appear on the bing maps

    http://binged.it/YiMU30

    Any ideas what it might be?


  • #255
    Coles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Coles


    In mythology Cnoc Gréine is a very special place, and it is bound to be covered with layers and layers of archaeology. Certainly seems to be a lot going on in the satellite images.


  • #256
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭bawn79


    Coles wrote: »
    In mythology Cnoc Gréine is a very special place, and it is bound to be covered with layers and layers of archaeology. Certainly seems to be a lot going on in the satellite images.

    I've read a few bits and pieces about Cnoc Greine but other that it being related to the hill of the sun I haven't found any more specific mythology regarding it.

    Anything more specific that you might know of?


  • #257
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    That rectilinear enclosure is also visible in the OSI 2005 orthophotography.
    There is no record of a rectilinear enclosure on either the 1st or 2nd edition maps but there was a circular rath at that precise location;
    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,575346,645561,6,8

    It's a curious one.
    Was the original rath reshaped sometime later? Or did the original survey lose something in translation? It is interesting and definitely deserves further investigation.

    The SMR only lists a mound at that site ( L1024 - 012 ).

    Is that a barrow at the southern boundary wall in the next field southwest of the rectilinear enclosure? It's listed as an enclosure (L1024-156). It looks to me like a ring barrow which has been intersected by a later wall.


  • #258
    Coles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Coles


    bawn79 wrote: »
    I've read a few bits and pieces about Cnoc Greine but other that it being related to the hill of the sun I haven't found any more specific mythology regarding it.

    Anything more specific that you might know of?
    Here's some stuff to get you started. Link
    The word 'grian' in local names sometimes commemorates, not the sun, but a woman ; for though primarily meaning the sun, it was anciently (being a feminine noun) a favourite female name, applied of course in the sense of brightness and beauty. Kilgreana near Gralbally in Limerick, is understood by the people to mean Grian's church; but there are other places in Carlow, Mayo and Waterford, with this name, in the slightly varying forms of Kilgreany and Kilgraney in which probably the first syllable represents colli ; the whole meaning sunny wood.

    The most interesting example of the occurrence of this word in local nomenclature as a woman's name, is Knockgrean, a hill rising over the village of Pallas-Grean in the county Limerick. The lady "Grian of the bright cheeks," from whom this place was named, was an enchantress; and the hill, which before her time was called Cnoc-na-gcuradh [Knock-nagurra], the hill of the champions, was her favourite haunt.

    Five young champions, the sons of Conall, came one time to attack the sidh [shee] or fairy mansion of Grrian's father, Firae ; and they destroyed the sidh, and slew besides, one of Grian's young handmaids. But they paid dearly for this cruel deed; for the vengeful sorceress overtook them on their return, and transformed them all into badgers.

    When Conall heard of the fate of his five sons, he set out immediately, bent on vengeance, to seek for the enchantress ; and when he arrived at Knocknagurra, he found her asleep on the hill. She started up as he approached, and a contest took place between them, in which Conall nearly succeeded in killing her. When she found herself worsted in the fight, she planned a stratagem to bring him within the power of her sorcery; and she said, pretending to recognise him then for the first time, "Is it thou, Conall? " Conall answered "It is I." "Come near me," said she, that I may give thee a blessing." So Conall came close to her, and she immediately shook ashes on him. He retired at once from her presence, but the withering spell of the ashes overcame him ; and when he had come to a certain mound he died there, so that the mound was named from him, Carn Conaill.

    Grian had no better fortune ; for no sooner had Conall left her than she lay down and died of her wounds. And ever since, the hill has borne the name of Cnoc-Greine or Knockgrean, in memory of the enchantress, Grian of the bright cheeks. About a quarter of a mile from the village of PallasGrean, which lies at the foot of the hill, there is a large fort, now called the moat of Pallas ; this is the original sidh or fairy mansion of Firae and his daughter : and from it the village took its name : — Pallas-Grean, i. e. the fairy-palace of the lady Grian. There is also an ancient fort on the top of the hill, which now goes by the name of Seefin; and this was no doubt Grian's own residence.

    The enchantress Grian has been long forgotten in the neighbourhood ; and the name of the place is now supposed to be derived directly from the sun. Accordingly the townland lying adjacent to the village on the west side, is called Sunglen ; and near the village of " Pallas-Grean New," at the Pallas station of the Waterford and Limerick railway, is the townland and residence of Sunville; both named under the erroneous impression that Knockgrean meant the hill of the sun.


  • #259
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭bawn79


    Thanks Coles - I've been up and around the hill a few times. Very hard to figure out what is going on up there.


    http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/9632/cnoc_greine.html

    I know there was a definite mound up on top of the hill (not the picture on the link above) and a lot of different earthworks.

    All info that you may have would be greatly appreciated. Even if you would like to PM me - I can give you my email address if you have any other stuff on it.


  • #260
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    There are plenty of fine photographers who post in this forum.
    - More would be welcome ;)
    Even so I thought I would share these two images of the same site, to demonstrate how much can be revealed (or hidden) by changes in the light.

    252278.JPG252279.JPG


  • #261
    Fries-With-That
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fries-With-That


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Isn't that exactly what some farmers did when they reincorporated found sheila na gigs to their farm walls ? (I think there's supposed to be such a case in co Waterford or Tipp near me, never saw it and wouldn't know where to look though).

    I have a memory of this in Tipperary where back in the early 80's a guy pointed out a carved stone in the façade of his newly constructed house, that he had taken from a local castle. I was shocked that someone could just steal a carved stone and proudly display it on the front of his house for all to see.


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  • #262
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    The piers of my next door neighbour's gate are constructed from the quoins of a ruined C11th church.
    Whether the church was ruined before or after the material was 'salvaged', I don't know.
    It's a common though despicable practice.


  • #263
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    slowburner wrote: »
    It's a common though despicable practice.

    It's the oldest form of recycling.

    I think the 'despicable' aspect comes from the sense of loss someone feels at the realisation that some artifact once formed part of a larger structure which would have been seriously impressive to see and experience in todays world.

    However, the salvage of stones from the decayed rubble of some ancient building would not have been seen as willful destruction, say 30 or 50 years ago, and of course it is worth noting that the person who 'rescued' the artifact probably had nothing to do with the initial destruction of the original structure.

    I would also ask where the 'original' structure sourced all of its materials, I would guess that a plethora of earlier structures sacrificed their defining cells to help shape the form which is being mourned as the source of the despicable loss.

    I'm not saying any of this to excuse the theft of artifacts, just to explain the re-use of some materials like stones, etc, regardless of how worked the stones may be.


  • #264
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Sure.
    I hope that we have moved on from this form of recycling though.


  • #265
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    I have a memory from when I was very very young, my dad used to bring the milk to the creamery on his horse and cart but in the 1960's the creamery truck used to call around to local areas to collect the milk from milk stands, each farmer built his own one. My dad took up an old flag stone from in front of a derelict thatch house in the farmyard and brought it to the roadway and flattened out a section of the wide stone fence and put the flag stone on the finished area for the milk churns to rest on for collection.

    In the 1990's a local building was being extended and needed a flat door head for a wide wall and used the self same flag stone, which now frames a door opening, but as a head rather than a flag and only two miles from where I remember it being taken from. I smile any time I consider that, because I am the variable in that sketch, not the stone or it's myriad of uses. That particular stone could have experienced 5, 10 or 20 incarnations before I came along and decided to remember that first day I witnessed it being exhumed from in front of that empty family home. God only knows how many more incarnations that particular stone has in store for it before it is reabsorbed into some mantle somewhere in the distant future.

    There are stone fences around my old with stones which had many uses, I have identified a scuffle stone, a grinding stone, another flag stone and a gate heel support all on one stone fence, it's like a treasure trove. I can lose hours just wondering about the people who used them down through the years and about who actually fashioned them first.

    Remember, every single fence is made up of hundreds of stones gathered from all over the place, a lot of which had other uses before being discarded and collected. I like to think it's not the stone that loses usefulness but rather the person using it loses ability, need or interest.

    Anyway I've rambled on enough.


  • #266
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Wonderful post.
    You have just become an archaeologist.
    Without your knowledge of the history of these stones, they would eventually become nothing more than builder's rubble, broken and forgotten at the bottom of a big yellow iron bucket.
    You have recorded the history of an artefact and moreover, you have recorded a story more fully than anyone will ever be able to in the future, solely by investigating whatever remains of the stone.

    On my travels, which frequently involve looking at stones, I often think; that's a great stone - it would make a great head, step, sill etc. And then I wonder, if I thought that, surely someone else before me thought the same thing? They probably did but it might have been just too awkward or difficult to transport.
    Or did that useful looking stone originally come from a place where it had been cut to fit?
    I will probably never know, nor will anyone else.

    This, just to describe the importance of your intimate knowledge of your stone's provenance and the stories it can now tell.
    That's archaeology.


  • #267
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Weee... I think I found something !
    Of course need your expert eyes to look on this.

    This is very near me, so I'd be able to take pics from the road, maybe not go in yet as there are excitable sheep in there, not until I meet my neighbours anyway.
    The Bing map imaging I was looking at is dated 2013, Google maps are ancient and won't zoom this clear so can't double check on that.

    Ring enclosure that seems small to be a ringfort ? (see size of shed opposite). Nothing marked on OSI and NMS map.
    This is on a hilly site facing East.

    http://binged.it/ZVLjfh

    edit : townland Bonatouk or Monatouk co Waterford (the border to South Tipp is just across there)


  • #268
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Great find.

    Almost certainly an early Bronze Age ring barrow with an eroded fosse, possibly earlier.
    At between 25 - 30m, the size is just right.
    There might just be the remains of an outer bank in a semi circle to the right of the barrow. There may also be a rectilinear earthwork about 15m due north.
    Is there an entrance to the north-east?

    I would advise that you make contact with the landowner as soon as you can - before the growth gets too heavy.
    I have never once met a landowner who was not interested to find out about what is on their land and very often they can tell you about other potentially interesting things nearby.
    When you visit the site, don't confine yourself to just the barrow - get to know the surroundings - the overall context.
    Explore the ditches and uncultivated areas.
    Ask yourself 'Why was this place chosen to bury the dead?' and imagine the landscape without modern structures or forestry. Views from the barrow can be extremely important.
    It's always worthwhile to make a habit of exploring the field boundaries too, especially if they are a dry stone wall construction. Stones cleared from the field may have been part of the barrow at some point so you should look for worked stones.
    Familiarise yourself with recorded monuments in the locality if you haven't already. It a tradition in Ireland that you should be able to see three fairy forts from the one you are beside.
    It's quite possible that this earthwork will be very difficult to see at ground level. With any luck, you might be able to see a difference in the soil or grass.
    It can be useful to photograph the site in low evening or morning sunlight - probably the morning in this case.

    The only other possibility is that it is the footprint of a cattle feeder. Scrolling back through the OSI timeline shows no cattle feeder there from 1995 to 2000 - or any sign that there had been one there. I don't think it is a product of a cattle feeder, but had to say it all the same.
    It is just barely visible as a crop mark on the OSI 2000 image.

    You will need to fill out the Monument Report form after you have been for a site visit and eliminated the cattle feeder option (after chatting to the landowner).

    Don't forget to bring:
    • a (long) measuring tape
    • a ranging rod, or something else easily recognisable for scale. My walking stick doubles as a ranging rod with carved rings at 20cm intervals.
    • a compass
    • and of course, the camera
    • a picnic :P
    You will need to measure the inside diameter, the outside diameter, the height and width of the fosse.
    Google Earth is good for noting the height above sea level.
    The ITM coordinates can be obtained from the OSI website. Centre the barrow in the crosshairs and hover your mouse over it. When the cursor changes from 'pan' to an arrow, read off the coordinates from the status box at the bottom left of the window.


    It just goes to show the value of searching at a macro level.
    I firmly believe that intensive local searching is the very best way for an improved national inventory of monuments. We have more remote sensing tools in our hands now than ever before.


  • #269
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Thank you so much Slowburner !

    I just drove by the place, didn't see the land owners yet, but I see them often and will talk to them, I think they'll be interested. Light is totally flat today nothing photos would be useless.

    The structure is actually visible from the road, albeit from a lower vantage point, and so not very obvious. There are no visible stones that I can see from the road.

    I've never seen cattle in there, just sheep, but the farmers do have a few cattle as well so you never know. But the cattle feeders that they are using in their other fields are much smaller I have to say (they only have a very small herd for calves I think, sheep is their thing).

    Could it be just a pockmark caused by a puddle ? This is really down from the mountain slope.

    As regards position, I think this would be a pretty obvious bronze age spot. There is a cairn on top of the mountain (Broe Mountain, with Knocknafallia right behind it), that would be behind the structure, very close. Pretty much across from the structure looking East-South East, there are 2 spots with standing stones : a pair in one spot I think are actually Ogham stones, and a single stone too. There are no ringforts facing it that I know of (need to look more closely), but there is an enclosure that has been roughly handled throughout the years (according to records), that would have been within line of sight if the current forestry wasn't there (I think).

    I need to look at the NMS closely again, and the good news is that I will have a lot more free time from the start of June to go take pics, measure, etc... If the farmers confirm that there was no cattle feeder there, or that they didn't have a hand in this, I will probably be back on here to ask lots of silly questions to try and do things right Slowburner, thanks again.:)


  • #270
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Ring enclosure across from it.


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  • #271
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    A good news story about returning artifacts in today's paper...

    http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/ShannonRegion/ScatteryIslandCentre/

    It seems that two carved stones, removed by a Captain Kennedy in the 1860's are to be returned to Scattery Island as part of a Gathering Ceremony later this year.

    The stones, originally carved around the 12th or 14th century's were kept by the Captain in his own garden and found their way into a graveyard in Kilrush. The priest asked the local school teacher to take them away to protect them some 50 or so years ago. The retired school teacher has now contacted the local heritage group to repatriate the stones onto the island.


  • #272
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    Unlisted Rectilinear enclosure west of Graiguenamanagh, Co. Kilkenny. http://binged.it/19KomnR


  • #273
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Weee... I think I found something !
    Of course need your expert eyes to look on this.

    This is very near me, so I'd be able to take pics from the road, maybe not go in yet as there are excitable sheep in there, not until I meet my neighbours anyway.
    The Bing map imaging I was looking at is dated 2013, Google maps are ancient and won't zoom this clear so can't double check on that.

    Ring enclosure that seems small to be a ringfort ? (see size of shed opposite). Nothing marked on OSI and NMS map.
    This is on a hilly site facing East.

    http://binged.it/ZVLjfh

    edit : townland Bonatouk or Monatouk co Waterford (the border to South Tipp is just across there)

    This find is now a National Monument.


  • #274
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Simon.d wrote: »
    Unlisted Rectilinear enclosure west of Graiguenamanagh, Co. Kilkenny. http://binged.it/19KomnR
    Interesting one. Especially its central situation between two hills.
    There doesn't appear to be anything on the historical maps that gives much of a clue about this earthwork, except perhaps for a lime kiln to the east and that there were more houses nearby pre-Famine.
    It looks 'fresh' enough to have a recorded history.


  • #275
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    slowburner wrote: »
    This find is now a National Monument.

    Thanks for the update and thanks for everything else Slowburner.


  • #276
    Coles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Coles


    Well done m&h.


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  • #277
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    Paid a visit to Pembrokestown Motte in Waterford at the weekend..

    I noticed what looks to be two coursed stones on the top of the motte running in a line along the circumference of the flat summit. I also saw another (similarly sized) stone about a metre away following the same line.. SMoleTRl.jpg

    Would this be evidence of a shell keep?
    shllkeep.gif


  • #278
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    Hi Simon.d,

    Yes,I see no reason why they may not be remnants of a shell keep - it looks good to me!

    Have you seen any similar looking stones in the fosse below?If not,they may have been used in field boundary walls close by perhaps.

    If they post-date the Norman occupation of the motte,then I can't see what a stone structure on top may have been used for??


  • #279
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    For those who may not be familiar with shell-keeps,I've attached a couple of images of one below.

    This is known as Wiston Castle and can be seen in Pembrokeshire,south Wales.


  • #280
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    KnapperHandy wrote: »
    Hi Simon.d,

    Yes,I see no reason why they may not be remnants of a shell keep - it looks good to me!

    Have you seen any similar looking stones in the fosse below?If not,they may have been used in field boundary walls close by perhaps.

    If they post-date the Norman occupation of the motte,then I can't see what a stone structure on top may have been used for??

    I saw another stone close to the in situ cluster a couple of metres down the slope of the mound, that looks like it may have rolled down..


  • #281
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    I was reading the link you attached in your earlier post relating to this motte where it states 'The flat topped mound is 10 metres in diameter at the top'.

    Most shell-keeps I'm led to believe were about 25 metres or more in diameter.Okay,it can be argued that we must allow for erosion of the mound over the centuries,but it still means if it was a shell-keep,it must have been significantly smaller than the norm.


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  • #282
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    KnapperHandy wrote: »
    I was reading the link you attached in your earlier post relating to this motte where it states 'The flat topped mound is 10 metres in diameter at the top'.

    Most shell-keeps I'm led to believe were about 25 metres or more in diameter.Okay,it can be argued that we must allow for erosion of the mound over the centuries,but it still means if it was a shell-keep,it must have been significantly smaller than the norm.

    Here's Wiston Keep that you referenced earlier.. It's quite comparable in scale methinks (compare keep size with 10m scale bar in bottom left of this bing map)


  • #283
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    Just looking at the scale,the Wiston Castle keep would appear to be 15 metres in diameter.Yeah,I agree,it would be quite close in scale alright!


  • #284
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    I'm sure you've checked this out yourself,but I was just looking at the record for this site in the 'Archaeological Inventory of Co.Waterford',published in 1999,and no mention is made of the remnants of a stone structure being visible on the motte then.Maybe,these stones have just been exposed due to erosion in recent times.


  • #285
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    KnapperHandy wrote: »
    I'm sure you've checked this out yourself,but I was just looking at the record for this site in the 'Archaeological Inventory of Co.Waterford',published in 1999,and no mention is made of the remnants of a stone structure being visible on the motte then.Maybe,these stones have just been exposed due to erosion in recent times.

    There is no mention alright.. But it's hard to know how detailed that survey was at the same time.. I don't erosion would be to blame though, as the vegetation is quite heavy, which would keep it largely intact methinks, especially over such a short time-frame.. I must go back and see if there are any more stones along that perimeter...

    I've been doing a bit of research into the (potential) history of the site.. It lies within the parish of Lisnakill and there's a reference to a William de Eincourt in the early 1200s as being Lord of Incheth and Lisnekill .. His Daughter "Feya" apparently married Walter de Poer, Lord of Dunbrattin & Rathcormack and they had a son Benedict de Poer, who was shown to be in posession of Lisnakill (and Portally) in 1287 ..

    There's also the reference to a 1291 inquisition that took place in Lisnakill, that implies (to me anyhow) the site was of some importance..
    ER50QSG.png?1

    In c1330 there's a reference to it potentially being in possession of Gilbert de Pembroke (a probable explanation for the name of the town land : Pembrokestown) hKFzkp2.jpg?1


  • #286
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    You're right,it's most likely the stones were overlooked during the original survey.I wonder would it be necessary to let the National Monuments Service know of your findings;it's most likely this was something hitherto unknown about this monument and can be added to the record for posterity.

    Your research is quite interesting indeed!I wonder is this Gilbert de Pembroke you mention,a descendant of Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare,the 2nd Earl of Pembroke,ie.Strongbow?


  • #287
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    Your research is quite interesting indeed!I wonder is this Gilbert de Pembroke you mention,a descendant of Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare,the 2nd Earl of Pembroke,ie.Strongbow?[/QUOTE]

    I've since had a gander online to see if there's any possible ancestral link between Gilbert de Pembroke and Strongbow,but it appears there wasn't.

    To be honest,the Norman Conquest and indeed Norman family genealogies in Ireland isn't something I'm wholly familiar with.:o


  • #288
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    KnapperHandy wrote: »

    I've since had a gander online to see if there's any possible ancestral link between Gilbert de Pembroke and Strongbow,but it appears there wasn't.

    To be honest,the Norman Conquest and indeed Norman family genealogies in Ireland isn't something I'm wholly familiar with.:o

    I wouldn't say there's a direct link.. But could be a relative of some sort.. Gilbert was a family name after all..

    Whoever he was he seemed a bit of a renegade, as there's a few mentions of him around Waterford, all regarding him getting into trouble.. i.e. the reference posted was regarding him holding land illegally in Lisnakill (at least that's my interpratation)..


  • #289
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    Simon.d wrote: »
    I wouldn't say there's a direct link.. But could be a relative of some sort.. Gilbert was a family name after all..

    Whoever he was he seemed a bit of a renegade, as there's a few mentions of him around Waterford, all regarding him getting into trouble.. i.e. the reference posted was regarding him holding land illegally in Lisnakill (at least that's my interpratation)..

    Funny enough,I can't seem to find a mention of a 'de Pembroke' family anywhere online and when you google the family name,the 'de Clares,Earls of Pembroke' keep popping up,so yeah,there may be some tangible link somewhere along the line!

    By the way,there are two Norman mottes in my hometown and I'm not aware that either have or have had evidence of a shell-keep on top,
    but I might just take a closer look,you just never know?


  • #290
    MoodeRator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    Could anyone tell me what these 3 might be please? Another Orions Belt?:confused:
    Four Mile House


  • #291
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    Hi MoodeRator,

    I've just had a look on the National Monuments Service Database(see the link below):


    http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/.

    This link can be found on the Archaeology Forum Charter Thread here.

    I presume the townland in question is Ballinderry?If so,these are ringforts or raths.If you go to the link above and enter the relevant townland ie.Ballinderry,it will give you a detailed description of these monuments(they're recorded as R0035-012,R0035-011 and R0035-010001- on the database).

    Hope this helps!

    All the best.


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  • #292
    MoodeRator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    Thanks you are spot on! that link you provided is brilliant!


  • #293
    KnapperHandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭KnapperHandy


    No problem MoodeRator!
    Glad I could help.
    All the best.


  • #294
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    Interesting earthworks in Ballinlough, Co. Limerick.. http://binged.it/14v5wfV

    Remains of a Large Circular Enclosure in Clogher East, Co. Limerick.. http://binged.it/10EDZIa

    Assorted Earthworks in Clogher West, Co. Limerick http://binged.it/127QNo8


  • #295
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭bawn79


    Simon.d wrote: »
    Interesting earthworks in Ballinlough, Co. Limerick.. http://binged.it/14v5wfV

    Remains of a Large Circular Enclosure in Clogher East, Co. Limerick.. http://binged.it/10EDZIa

    Assorted Earthworks in Clogher West, Co. Limerick http://binged.it/127QNo8

    Regarding Clogher - was just reading online yesterday evening that theorized that Bruree was the 2nd Regia on Ptomley 2nd Century map of Ireland. (The other being Navan Fort / Emain Macha). Could be an explanation for some of those earthworks.

    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/pages-in-history/an-mangaire-sugach-the-li/local-historical-events/city-between-the-bridges-/


  • #296
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    bawn79 wrote: »
    Regarding Clogher - was just reading online yesterday evening that theorized that Bruree was the 2nd Regia on Ptomley 2nd Century map of Ireland. (The other being Navan Fort / Emain Macha). Could be an explanation for some of those earthworks.

    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/pages-in-history/an-mangaire-sugach-the-li/local-historical-events/city-between-the-bridges-/

    That doesn't surprise me one bit.. Some fascinating markings on the landscape around there.. I only posted the ones above as they have no listing on the NMS register..

    But this one here is very interesting too, listed as an enclosure with no description.. ( LI039-001---- ) .. Deserves a bit more than that me thinks : http://binged.it/12z1VdA

    Another interesting one here.. Listed as a redundant record (LI039-145----) "This record is only referenced to 'ASIAP 2002' but I have been unable to find the relevant aerial photograph(s) so have made this a redundant record until the photograph is found- Denis Power 10th June 2011." Lots of lumps and bumps clearly visible around some circular feature: http://binged.it/12ze2av


  • #297
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭bawn79


    Simon.d wrote: »
    But this one here is very interesting too, listed as an enclosure with no description.. ( LI039-001---- ) .. Deserves a bit more than that me thinks : http://binged.it/12z1VdA

    ]

    God that one looks very interesting alright, remains of a henge I wonder? I might have a look at that at ground level when I get a chance.


  • #298
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Simon.d wrote: »
    But this one here is very interesting too, listed as an enclosure with no description.. ( LI039-001---- ) .. Deserves a bit more than that me thinks : http://binged.it/12z1VdA
    This one looks like a manicured crop circle than a crop mark. It looks very neat and almost two dimensional.
    Does LI039-001 refer to the earthwork NNW by any chance?


  • #299
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    slowburner wrote: »
    This one looks like a manicured crop circle than a crop mark. It looks very neat and almost two dimensional.
    Does LI039-001 refer to the earthwork NNW by any chance?

    It's extremely neat...

    But it features on the old Osi's so doubt it's a crop circle, also somewhat discernible on the osi aerial imagery.. :

    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,552658,633291,7,9


  • #300
    Simon.d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    bawn79 wrote: »
    God that one looks very interesting alright, remains of a henge I wonder? I might have a look at that at ground level when I get a chance.

    Another interesting one here if you're in the Area: http://binged.it/12Izryd

    Has a listing as earthworks with no description.. It's called Knocksouna, i.e. Hill of Samhain .. So sounds quite important, and likely to have been associated with the Regal history of Bruree going way back.. Seems to be associated with this individual/god :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongfind


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  • #301
    Coles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Coles


    Aerial photography proves it's worth again.

    'World's oldest calendar' discovered in Scottish field, - BBC.
    The Warren Field site was first discovered as unusual crop marks spotted from the air by the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland (RCAHMS).

    Dave Cowley, aerial survey projects manager at RCAHMS, said: "We have been taking photographs of the Scottish landscape for nearly 40 years, recording thousands of archaeological sites that would never have been detected from the ground.

    "Warren Field stands out as something special, however. It is remarkable to think that our aerial survey may have helped to find the place where time itself was invented."


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