RVP or Bale? - The Big Question

I cant knock your belief.Mickey T will be at Real next season but he is powered by our belief. The more that believe the greater he will play!

It's pointless going through specific games though, RVP would have had plenty of lucky goals and assists, and he was playing on a considerably better team than Bale. Chimp Boy is a match changer, and his form last season was way more consistent than in previous years which is probably why people were swapping him in and out (myself included). But he proved us wrong and consistently got points last season, as did RVP. They were easily the best two in the game.

The bottom line is stats, and over the course of the season Bale had a better return for every minute spent on the pitch than RVP. And he is £2m less, which is massive in this game. It's the difference between having a 130+ point player like John Terry, or a £4m benchwarmer.

And United have a new manager. AND United have a horrible run of fixtures at the start. Everything points to Bale being more valuable, and imo a must have. If RVP does well over the first few games then get him in. I don't understand why people are risking having RVP (with tough fixtures) on the basis they can get rid if needed, over having Negredo/Aguero (with easy fixtures) who can upgrade just as easily.

If Bale does go abroad it will make this entire discussion moot as RVP will then be a must have.

roryc wrote: »

It's pointless going through specific games though, RVP would have had plenty of lucky goals and assists, and he was playing on a considerably better team than Bale. Chimp Boy is a match changer, and his form last season was way more consistent than in previous years which is probably why people were swapping him in and out (myself included). But he proved us wrong and consistently got points last season, as did RVP. They were easily the best two in the game.

The bottom line is stats, and over the course of the season Bale had a better return for every minute spent on the pitch than RVP. And he is £2m less, which is massive in this game. It's the difference between having a 130+ point player like John Terry, or a £4m benchwarmer.

And United have a new manager. AND United have a horrible run of fixtures at the start. Everything points to Bale being more valuable, and imo a must have. If RVP does well over the first few games then get him in. I don't understand why people are risking having RVP (with tough fixtures) on the basis they can get rid if needed, over having Negredo/Aguero (with easy fixtures) who can upgrade just as easily.

If Bale does go abroad it will make this entire discussion moot as RVP will then be a must have.

I'd love to pick some City players, problem is their embarrassment of riches, just have no clue at the moment who is going to be starting up front and in the middle of the park, until everything kicks off and we can see what sort of team Pellegrini is going to put out, I think picking any one form City is very risky...

United may have the harder matches but for that reason you know for certain (barring injury) that RVP will play and if United are going to score it will more than likely come from him

roryc wrote: »

It's pointless going through specific games though, RVP would have had plenty of lucky goals and assists, and he was playing on a considerably better team than Bale. Chimp Boy is a match changer, and his form last season was way more consistent than in previous years which is probably why people were swapping him in and out (myself included). But he proved us wrong and consistently got points last season, as did RVP. They were easily the best two in the game.

The bottom line is stats, and over the course of the season Bale had a better return for every minute spent on the pitch than RVP. And he is £2m less, which is massive in this game. It's the difference between having a 130+ point player like John Terry, or a £4m benchwarmer.

And United have a new manager. AND United have a horrible run of fixtures at the start. Everything points to Bale being more valuable, and imo a must have. If RVP does well over the first few games then get him in. I don't understand why people are risking having RVP (with tough fixtures) on the basis they can get rid if needed, over having Negredo/Aguero (with easy fixtures) who can upgrade just as easily.

If Bale does go abroad it will make this entire discussion moot as RVP will then be a must have.

My argument would be the stats are based on 1 season of which the period Dec-May for Bale was unbelievable. In the 4 years at spurs where hes been a regular he has had a 6 month period when you could rightly say he is a must have or a captain every week option. In my years playing this game I think Henry, Ronaldo and rvp for the last 2 and a half seasons are the only players that deserve that accolade. I'm not disputing that Bale should be in everyones team to start the season just that the evidence points to rvp being a more consistent option.
There are also a rake of top end midfield options that we know will start like mata, hazard, walcott, coutinho cazorla, gerrard, silva etc.
The same cant be said for strikers the only one at the minute that you can be sure will start every game is rvp. There are issues with aguero, negredo, jovetic, suarez, rooney, sturridge, torres, lukaku, adeboyar,defoe.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

My argument would be the stats are based on 1 season of which the period Dec-May for Bale was unbelievable. In the 4 years at spurs where hes been a regular he has had a 6 month period when you could rightly say he is a must have or a captain every week option. In my years playing this game I think Henry, Ronaldo and rvp for the last 2 and a half seasons are the only players that deserve that accolade. I'm not disputing that Bale should be in everyones team to start the season just that the evidence points to rvp being a more consistent option.
There are also a rake of top end midfield options that we know will start like mata, hazard, walcott, coutinho cazorla, gerrard, silva etc.
The same cant be said for strikers the only one at the minute that you can be sure will start every game is rvp. There are issues with aguero, negredo, jovetic, suarez, rooney, sturridge, torres, lukaku, adeboyar,defoe.

Yeah Bale was incredible between Dec and May, but he still beat RVP over the course of the season. It's not like it was just a short patch. I don't think it's worth bringing Bale's seasons before last into account, he was young and improving. RVP will obviously be more consistent, but this is something Bale is now becoming and there's nothing to say he won't continue on into next season. The main difference for me is the fact that there is £2m difference between the two players. I think it should be £1m max. And yes there are issues around some of the new strikers, but the same can be said about practically every midfielder you mention above bar Hazard and Walcott. As I mentioned before, the decision to pick RVP goes on personal preference but also depends on the rest of your team and how well he fits in. I think if you have RVP you will need to have a £5.5m striker too, or face being too top heavy and reliant on strikers.

If you aren't disputing that Bale should be in everyone's team at the start of the season then we are in agreement! So the issue is whether RVP is worth having at the start of the season. You think yes, I think no. There's an argument for both sides, but the deciding factor for me would be RVP's opening fixtures vs City's. I would prefer to have Negredo/Aguero and trade up to RVP if needed, rather than trade down when you fall behind. I'm expecting to use my WC in the first few weeks so this risk is negligible. I'll happily bring in RVP against Palace, and it's unlikely I'll have fallen too far behind by not having him (based on his fixtures). If however, Pellegrini starts Negredo every game he could be streets ahead of VP by GW4. The bigger risk is on the side of RVP holders. This isn't a debate of who is better, keep that to the soccer forum. I'm trying to minimise risk and maximise my points haul in the first few weeks.

The only thing I'm worried about is RVP running riot against Swansea, but if he fails to score then I'm loving it as they will then face Chelsea, Liverpool, (Palace) and City. The first few Gameweeks are crucial and if RVP fails to score big and City bang in a few it could be disastrous for those that have risked having the Dutchman.

It's not really daft to have both, there's plenty of value out there, I picked a team with both and am happy with it.
I'm also quite happy for others to not have RVP, I remember a big debate here from march onwards about if you should or shouldn't have RVP and some people who got rid of him were ok because they got suarez in (I had both suarez and RVP), others got severely stung by not having RVP.

The facts remain he was the highest scoring player last season, points per minute is irrelevant really, if bale is picking up suspensions and missing gametime it's something that detracts from his value. I want the player who is going to get me the most points, not the most points per minute.

I will be picking both. there is very little value in the strikers without taking a gamble.

Hogey007 wrote: »

It's not really daft to have both, there's plenty of value out there, I picked a team with both and am happy with it.
I'm also quite happy for others to not have RVP, I remember a big debate here from march onwards about if you should or shouldn't have RVP and some people who got rid of him were ok because they got suarez in (I had both suarez and RVP), others got severely stung by not having RVP.

The facts remain he was the highest scoring player last season, points per minute is irrelevant really, if bale is picking up suspensions and missing gametime it's something that detracts from his value. I want the player who is going to get me the most points, not the most points per minute.

I will be picking both. there is very little value in the strikers without taking a gamble.

As you say nearly all the other strikers are a gamble theres an issue with all the other big strikers at the better clubs. Then the mid range options like rvw and bony people dont know what there getting and are taking a punt on new strikers playing for average teams. A Negredo, RVW , Bony strikeforce is a major risk. The greater the risk the greater the reward they say and it could come up trumps. I will be taking a cagier approach though.

Back in Ronaldos hayday, he was 14m and most people also had at least 1 or 2 of Lampard, Gerrard and Fabregas who were all 10m plus I think maybe 11 or 12m can't remember exactly but that strategy was considered essential because we all knew they would score the most points.

The holy trinity: RVP, Bale and PMS (Paul McShane)

So far I've been leaning towards just Bale in my team.

Every time I come up with a new draft that I like, I then go and have a look at it to see how I would fit RVP in, and which players I would downgrade to do so. And everytime I feel I'm sacrificing too much to fit him in. So for the minute I feel I won't be getting him.

Hogey007 wrote: »

you asked about the first 6, to move onto the next 6

If I don't start with RVP I will bring him in at GW7

moreau wrote: »

@ busts + hogey

You guys are making a strong case for RVP and appealing to my cautious nature

However, can I ask: how many games in first 6 will ye be captaining RVP?

For me I would only do GW4 in my RVP team, and the thought of having a 14 mill player in which I would captain once in six games is very off putting (this is not necessarily logical thinking, it just doesn't feel right if you know what I mean).

Have ye considered captaincy in any way re RVP and Utd's tough fixtures?

Captaincy is always a huge part of my thinking and was one of the main reasons I offloaded rvp last year in and around the CL games V real madrid. As Hogey said I would probably only captain him GW4 possibly GW1 aswell. In normal circumstances I wouldnt get rvp in till GW 4 but I honestly cant currently think of any striker that I would be entirely happy picking apart from RVP as things stand. Obviously this could change before the season starts Rooney may go to Chelsea, sturridge could prove his fitness, it may become clear who city will start with, bent could go to newcastle and so on and so on.
Regarding Utds fixtures their 5 hardest fixtures last year City, chelsea, spurs, arsenal and liverpool away van persie scored in all 5 of those games so I wouldnt be concerned about fixtures.
When the odds come out for goalscorer anytime for GW1 rvp will probably be the shortest odds.

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I don't know a person bar the 12 that said "Neither" :pac: that really wouldn't want both in their team but the issue is damage limitation to the rest of your squad. Realistically you have to play at least 1 bargain basement striker, field 1 and have a reserve of another midfielder, and have at most one cheap big gun in defense while also plucking for a 4.0 keeper unless you go for 2 4.5's in rotation.

This is something I came up with including the 2 golden boys:



Where you have Koscienly see either Nastasic or Mert where you see fit. The staple of Coleman and Turner and a 4.5 and 4.0 for rotation and emergency.

The midfield is reliant on Bale having a good day every week as Walcott can only tick over so much as he'll feature in most squads anyway. It becomes vital that you pick the correct mid-range and budget options, one or two quiet weeks could see you in a lot of trouble if Hull and Palace get routinely smashed by somebody.

Obviously I went with Negredo who could of course be downsized but that's an issue in himself, what if he becomes un-dropable? Gayle is the best 5.0 striker I reckon and should be a starter considering he cost more than David Villa.

So while there's a strong core the outer layer cannot spend too long being exposed to the elements without rotting and the next thing you know there'll be worms in the core as Bale or RVP pick up a knock for a month and by the time you've figured out what to do you're goosed.

RVP is just as likely to score against the big-boys which is the worrying dilemma here but more than 1/4 of your budget on 2 players isn't economically rational.

Im looking at something very similar bar Koseileny to a 4 million defender and Gayle to Bent( if he gets a move). Play 3 4 3 every week. Guaranteed to have two of the big four ( rvp,bale, negredo, walcott) at home for capt choice every week.

Bale heading off to Real would make this decision so much easier.

but if bale does join madrid it's hard to see them being able to afford that without some major sales, they don't get bailed out as easy as they used to.

united are still meant to be very interested in ronaldo. then it swings back again, there'd be no way you could afford both rvp and ronaldo, i'd imagine everyone would choose ronaldo over rvp though.

i know there's a lot of 'if's' here for this to happen but my prediction is bale to madrid, ronaldo to united, rooney to chelsea.

of course madrid could just get money by selling a couple of players like modric and pepe either.

out of curiosity, what price do you think ronaldo would be? would have to be 14.0 minimum.

Hogey007 wrote: »

but if bale does join madrid it's hard to see them being able to afford that without some major sales, they don't get bailed out as easy as they used to.

united are still meant to be very interested in ronaldo. then it swings back again, there'd be no way you could afford both rvp and ronaldo, i'd imagine everyone would choose ronaldo over rvp though.

i know there's a lot of 'if's' here for this to happen but my prediction is bale to madrid, ronaldo to united, rooney to chelsea.

of course madrid could just get money by selling a couple of players like modric and pepe either.

out of curiosity, what price do you think ronaldo would be? would have to be 14.0 minimum.

Ronaldo to United. Not a chance in hell. Modric to United. Maybe.