Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

ProudDUB · 18-07-2013 1:12pm

jordainius wrote: »

Once the fans are on the pitch, they're not going to leave it until the presentation is made. And it would be a bit daft to make the presentation at least 30/45 minutes after the final whistle, the "one mad dash where everyone charges onto the pitch" would still happen, and why make the presentation when everyone has calmed down? That kind of takes away from the moment.

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggested that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

jordainius · 18-07-2013 1:19pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggesting that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

My apologies, that does indeed appear to be the case now

Syferus · 18-07-2013 1:56pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggesting that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

It should be far, far less than 20 or 30 minutes, perhaps 2-3 minutes at most. I'd say start it almost immediately and snake the entry around the field so everyone isn't rushing onto the field at the exact same moment and those not going to the field have turned their backs and started going in the opposite direction. Waiting so long would ruin the spontaneity and emotion that makes going onto the pitch after a big win so enjoyable.

It'd also be pointless because even after the biggest of victories there's about no one left on the field after that length. That'd be actually putting more pressure on players to hang around when they should be warming down and celebrating together in the dressing room.

Happyman42 · 18-07-2013 4:29pm

jordainius wrote: »

How would this be organised? We assign 10 stewards to immediately sprint towards and form a protective circle around each of the 15 players of the defeated team to guide them safely towards the exit? We keep the crowd off the pitch until the defeated team leaves the pitch? And if it was "just a crowd of people" we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, there's nothing simple about this.

Perhaps talk to the thousands of traumatised losing players over the years. Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one. We have become a nation of H&S sissies, everywhere you look you have the pedantic 'you'll have somebody's eye out with that pencil' type crying. Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head.

I put it more down to the few hundred hours of training the players do myself. Fans don't drive a team to success, they have no influence at all. Fans are fickle, almost 5 years to the day before the pitch invasion at the weekend Limerick were booed off at half time and full time by about half of a 10k crowd as Offaly sent them out of the championship. Players of all counties know that they only have the support of the fans when things are going well, and they are well aware that the fans can turn on them in an instant. Players are the lifeblood of the GAA, not fans.

That's a bit like a teacher thinking the school exists to employ him/her tbh. There would be no occasion of the scale of All-Ireland day if the fan didn't want to watch and pay for it. Not gonna happen.

This is quite a cynical view. Both codes have 3 title sponsors who are very well known and get plenty of publicity. The GAA have given their reasons, this has more to do with Health and Safety and the wishes of the players than it has to do with sponsorship. There's no conspiracy here.

I don't agree with the GAA's stance, but I understand it and respect their choice.

The admin in Croke Park not thinking of the purse first?? Hmmmm, that's not what I am seeing.

At the end of the day if something goes wrong, they will be the ones picking up the bill as we have a sickening compensation culture in this country. And that is what has changed. There was a time when people took responsibility for their own actions, if someone got hurt they were more likely to take it on the chin, say to themselves "My own fault really, I took that risk when I decided to run on to the pitch.", now it's a case of; "Oh I stubbed my toe because the GAA didn't stop me from running onto the pitch, good thing I have my solicitor on speed dial.".

They pay compo out for incidents that happen from first footfall at the stadium until everybody leaves, that is no excuse tbh. Somebody could trip and fall down the concrete steps to the concourse....should people be stopped from using them? There is a whole myriad of things that could 'go wrong' . Where is the preventative strategy for those?
It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 18-07-2013 4:47pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

I liked when the presentation was made on the pitch when croke park was being redeveloped over 10 years ago. Didnt see a problem with it

macgrub · 18-07-2013 5:01pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Perhaps talk to the thousands of traumatised losing players over the years. Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one. We have become a nation of H&S sissies, everywhere you look you have the pedantic 'you'll have somebody's eye out with that pencil' type crying. Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head.

No player ever said they were traumatised; some said that they don't want to have to deal with several hundred, usually pissed, people running and jeering around them when they just finished playing a match. These lads aren't getting paid to play. We should at least hear their side of the situation properly, instead of making light of their comments by saying that they are 'traumatised'.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one.

Yes, they have caused harm. That's the point people here are trying to make.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head..

Again (and I'm quoting players here), many of these quick digs and punches that players receive are not caught on camera.

For that matter, It shouldn't be up to the GAA to steward the place properly or install a plethora of cameras in each stadium with an aim to curb any disruptive behaviour that the players on the field experience. Why should they have to go to that expense?

Happyman42 wrote: »

They pay compo out for incidents that happen from first footfall at the stadium until everybody leaves, that is no excuse tbh. Somebody could trip and fall down the concrete steps to the concourse....should people be stopped from using them? There is a whole myriad of things that could 'go wrong' . Where is the preventative strategy for those?
It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

People should be covered by insurance when in the appropriate sections on the stadium, i.e. from the entrance gates to their designated stands. Why should they cover people because those people want to storm the pitch?

jordainius · 18-07-2013 5:20pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

Happyman42 · 18-07-2013 5:57pm

jordainius wrote: »

Tell us where the concern for safety is at some of the regional stadia? There are hundreds of issues relating to inadequate facilities around the country, if these where addressed as stringently as this issue was being addressed I might believe that H&S is the primary concern. I don't believe it is though.

blowitupref · 18-07-2013 7:02pm

Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »

I liked when the presentation was made on the pitch when croke park was being redeveloped over 10 years ago. Didnt see a problem with it

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

Hammer Archer · 18-07-2013 9:13pm

blowitupref wrote: »

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

ProudDUB · 18-07-2013 9:56pm

blowitupref wrote: »

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

I'd be one of the few too. When we won Sam 2 years ago, you could see feck all of the trophy presentation from the Hill.

Rightwing · 18-07-2013 10:05pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

2 very important words there. Seems to me most fans want the invasions to continue.

blowitupref · 19-07-2013 1:51am

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

Middle of the pitch presentation with tacky streamers etc.. is too much like Premier league and i don't like it. I take what you are saying but Sam or Liam picked up in the Hogan stand looks more appropriate.

Citycap · 19-07-2013 9:45am

Uninterested Orange wrote: »

Pitch invasions are great to see, really brings the emotion of players and fans together. What was seen in Limerick was great to see, hope to see them do it again in September. Don't know what the issue is at Croke Park, I think it would be great to see t every All Ireland Sunday.

If you had played your guts out for 70 mins in the heat of last Sunday I'm sure the last thing you need is some half drunk "one match a year man" from Patrickswell coming in and mauling you

Happyman42 · 19-07-2013 11:00am

Citycap wrote: »

If you had played your guts out for 70 mins in the heat of last Sunday I'm sure the last thing you need is some half drunk "one match a year man" from Patrickswell coming in and mauling you

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it. Most of those who raced onto the pitch where exhuberant, excited kids who will never forget the magic, the same magic that will, and has, inspired generations of great GAA players.

Citycap · 19-07-2013 1:31pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it. Most of those who raced onto the pitch where exhuberant, excited kids who will never forget the magic, the same magic that will, and has, inspired generations of great GAA players.

the same kids whose Mammy would be the first to ring Joe Duffy because their little darling got hurt in a crush

Happyman42 · 19-07-2013 2:27pm

Citycap wrote: »

the same kids whose Mammy would be the first to ring Joe Duffy because their little darling got hurt in a crush

Just like the place 'being overrun with rabid drunks' I don't think I have ever heard somebody ring about that subject. Plenty of calls about other issues on match day.

macgrub · 19-07-2013 2:38pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it.

This depends on the context.
If you are a barman, hotel worker or just someone involved around the sale or influence of alcohol, sometimes you have to be tolerant.
These players, on the other hand, just gave 70+ minutes playing a game of sport. For no charge! It's difficult enough to have to put up with that in a workplace; why should you have to put up with it after slogging it out for 70 minutes without getting a cent?

Happyman42 · 19-07-2013 2:57pm

macgrub wrote: »

This depends on the context.
If you are a barman, hotel worker or just someone involved around the sale or influence of alcohol, sometimes you have to be tolerant.
These players, on the other hand, just gave 70+ minutes playing a game of sport. For no charge! It's difficult enough to have to put up with that in a workplace; why should you have to put up with it after slogging it out for 70 minutes without getting a cent?

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

macgrub · 19-07-2013 3:12pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

Who said 'out of control'? :rolleyes:
To be fair, many people who attend the games (especially at the later throw in times) have consumed alcohol before hand. However, I never said that this is an issue. People should be allowed consume alcohol if they please. In fact, some of my greatest days out involved having a couple of beers and hitting the terrace (followed by the obligatory 'tub of chips' afterwards).
The issue is when a selected few intoxicated people and sober people crowd players who have no say in the matter, despite the fact that they were the ones who just played the match.

That said, I don't think anybody who is severely drunk should be allowed entrance to a game. It's not fair on the other spectators, adults and children, who have to stand/sit there beside someone just because they wanted to party to excess before the game.

And it's certainly not fair for players to have to put up with it after a 70+ minutes slog.

Rightwing · 19-07-2013 3:13pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

This debate is starting to go round in circles. Of course you are correct.

I haven't heard of any players getting punched etc, in fact the players seem to be all for the invasions. They are a great spectacle.

bucketybuck · 19-07-2013 10:06pm

Hidalgo wrote: »

Disasters like Hillsborough happened due to overcrowding and high fences.
The only conceivable way a Hillsborough type event could occur in a GAA game is if a terrace was completely overcrowded.

You really missed the point there didn't you. He didn't say the GAA is in danger of a Hillsborough style barrier crushing, he is instead talking about the type of foresight that can prevent any disaster from happening. Some typical Irish like to say "Ahh sure it will be grand", and they are usually nowhere to be found should something serious actually happen. Others tend to be more pragmatic.

Syferus wrote: »

Some fecker (likely a Mayo lad, but that's just me being totally racist) forced a load of us to scale the railing - which has a fair old 8-10 foot drop from the top of the railing to the ground below -

Yeah thats right, he "forced" you. :rolleyes:

Happyman42 · 22-07-2013 5:52pm

Who could condone the end of this. Great spectacle and a great end to a match that meant something to those there.

Citycap · 22-07-2013 6:02pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who could condone the end of this. Great spectacle and a great end to a match that meant something to those there.

Probably high on the fumes from laundered diesel

keane2097 · 22-07-2013 6:04pm

If done properly, letting people onto the pitch would end up being safer than people leaving the ground. Could certainly be done in a more controlled manner than the stampede for the exits at the end of a game. Decrepit old fcukers climbing over the seats and climbing over peoples' shoulders to get through the tunnel at the top.

Why nobody ever seems to fear for lives piling into narrow enclosed usually slippery passages of concrete out of the grounds but the bleeding hearts arrive en masse for people walking through a gate into a field always baffles me.

Letting fans onto the pitch would probably make it safer for people leaving the ground as well as you're splitting the crush.

manofwisdom · 22-07-2013 6:05pm

Great scenes in Clones yesterday it's really the summer of pitch celebrations and long may it continue.

keane2097 · 22-07-2013 6:08pm

manofwisdom wrote: »

Great scenes in Clones yesterday it's really the summer of pitch celebrations and long may it continue.

Hundreds dead I heard?

manofwisdom · 22-07-2013 6:20pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Hundreds dead I heard?

That was probably the laundered diesel they drank last night.

MaroonAndGreen · 22-07-2013 6:52pm

If Mayo win the All Ireland, try and stop them fans getting on the pitch after waiting 62 years!

km79 · 22-07-2013 7:02pm

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

If Mayo win the All Ireland, try and stop them fans getting on the pitch after waiting 62 years!

I don't think I'd be able to move from my seat anyway due to my shock and my uncontrollable tears of joy

I get a bit weepy thinking about the possibility of it ( I wish I was joking cos im a grown man albeit an emotional one )

Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

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