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The Anglo Irish Tapes

1…6869717374…76

Comments

  • #2102
    RiverOfLove
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭RiverOfLove


    Another newspaper article in the Irish Independent today and more tapes today:


    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/anglo-tapes-they-knew-for-a-year-that-bank-was-in-crisis-29416977.html

    Anglo bank officials knew for nearly a year before the bank guarantee of the sh1t storm that was coming.


  • #2103
    Slick50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    renegademaster wrote: »
    if we done something it would be a great start, politicians and their associates/partners are laughing all the way until we do rise up and say no more, it's sick how much this country lets the, away with everything without any real accountability
    Something would be a good start alright... but there have been marches and other protests all over the country. The problem is, they are all too fractured, another scene from MadsL's link above would probably be more accurate.


  • #2104
    Hootanany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    RiverOfLove wrote: »
    I have an idea for a protest + it doesn't involve getting up off our arses. How about granting ourselves a bank holiday every month? It would have to be done nationally + all + every one gets involved + plenty of time + notice given for it.

    We missed the boat with July + we have a bank holiday in August. So lets start it for September. First monday - grant ourselves a bank holiday. Another in October, then November, December, Jan, Feb, March, April, we have one in May & June, then another for July.



    You mean a day of withdrawal what about the unemployed.


  • #2105
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    they're pi$$ing themselves at us still, but, the Irish apathy won't last forever

    some mighty big changes would want to start coming soon and major heads better start rolling


  • #2106
    Dartz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Dartz


    It's not apathy

    Its a melancholy fatalism, along with the very Catholic belief that we don't deserve anything good at all, and everything is out own fault.


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  • #2107
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    The fatalism I would tend to agree with, in some cases at least - the "We don't deserve anything good!" bit, I'd have to disagree with.

    I think it's more a case of realising that we're stuck with the current lot until the next election, together with the realisation that FF helped get us into this - and, irrespective of whether a bunch of saints get elected next time - We're being forced to pay off this debt.

    Add the fact that the current Government seem determined to withhold as much information as possible, all in the name of generously "avoiding wasting taxpayers money":rolleyes:. It's worth noting that FF are also eager to have a toothless Oireachtas enquiry. So, it would appear that we do not have a political party that is willing to serve the public interest, by telling us the plain, unvarnished, truth. I wonder why?

    I suspect that people will oust the current coalition at the next election, just as they ousted FF/Greens.

    Whether we will get a Government that is willing to address the very real issues of Democratic accountability that this Country needs remains to be seen.
    Personally, I can't see it happening if any of the three main parties are in Government!:(


  • #2108
    Pandora2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Pandora2


    Millward Brown Poll of last week showed that SF/FF coalition would be possible with SF in the driving seat and given the performance of the current shower, it is very possible. The disaffected FF'ers will return in their droves citing the tapes as proof FF were hoodwinked, the irony!! SF are hothousing their vote and will have a wide range of very credible young candidates throughout the State. They will cut their teeth in the Locals and European election and hit the ground running for the next GE!!

    It's about to get very, very interesting...can you imagine FF being managed by SF? Well, they are both Republican Parties!!

    Local elections will give a good indicator of the mood of the Country!


  • #2109
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    The fatalism I would tend to agree with, in some cases at least - the "We don't deserve anything good!" bit, I'd have to disagree with.

    I think it's more a case of realising that we're stuck with the current lot until the next election, together with the realisation that FF helped get us into this - and, irrespective of whether a bunch of saints get elected next time - We're being forced to pay off this debt.

    Add the fact that the current Government seem determined to withhold as much information as possible, all in the name of generously "avoiding wasting taxpayers money":rolleyes:. It's worth noting that FF are also eager to have a toothless Oireachtas enquiry. So, it would appear that we do not have a political party that is willing to serve the public interest, by telling us the plain, unvarnished, truth. I wonder why?

    I suspect that people will oust the current coalition at the next election, just as they ousted FF/Greens.

    Whether we will get a Government that is willing to address the very real issues of Democratic accountability that this Country needs remains to be seen.
    Personally, I can't see it happening if any of the three main parties are in Government!:(

    no we're not, over 100,000 gathered in dublin city centre on a snow covered afternoon in Nov 2010 to force fianna fail to hold general elections, we could do the same again by the end of the week if we wanted to
    Pandora2 wrote: »
    Millward Brown Poll of last week showed that SF/FF coalition would be possible with SF in the driving seat and given the performance of the current shower, it is very possible. The disaffected FF'ers will return in their droves citing the tapes as proof FF were hoodwinked, the irony!! SF are hothousing their vote and will have a wide range of very credible young candidates throughout the State. They will cut their teeth in the Locals and European election and hit the ground running for the next GE!!

    It's about to get very, very interesting...can you imagine FF being managed by SF? Well, they are both Republican Parties!!

    Local elections will give a good indicator of the mood of the Country!

    I can and it ain't pretty. we are so fcuked here for lack of fighting back and holding any government to true account. an election alone won't fix things


  • #2110
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    renegademaster wrote: »
    no we're not, over 100,000 gathered in dublin city centre on a snow covered afternoon in Nov 2010 to force fianna fail to hold general elections, we could do the same again by the end of the week if we wanted to

    We could. But, in the absence of any new political parties, the options are
    A: FF.
    B: Sinn Fein
    C: Either/Both of the above, with or without Independent support.

    I'd be willing to bet that a significant portion of the electorate haven't forgiven FF yet.
    I'd be equally willing to bet that an equally significant portion wouldn't vote for Sinn Fein.

    Add in the people who will factor in either pro-life, or pro-choice votes by sitting TDs - and there is a very real possibility that it may be impossible to form a Government at all.


    renegademaster wrote: »
    I can and it ain't pretty. we are so fcuked here for lack of fighting back and holding any government to true account. an election alone won't fix things

    An election alone, without the emergence of some new parties who are willing to abolish the party whip, permit the recall of sitting TDs/Ministers, and a willingness to allow the electorate to demand their rights via petition, (eg. A public enquiry, rather than an Oireachtas enquiry) would be a complete waste of time - and the electorate know it!
    Unfortunately, so do the various political parties - which is precisely why they are resisting the change that the electorate want/need so desperately.:mad:

    If a new, centrist party were to emerge - things could get really interesting.


  • #2111
    Gmol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    Why vote for FF again they got us into this mess, at least the shower there currently are trying to get us out of it unpleasant as it is. I would be looking to vote for someone that has a solution to limit our exposure to it happening to us again such as trying to encourage steady growth by keeping a reign on the banks loaning to the public and setting procedures in place that allow banks to fail rather than having to be propped up if they are unsustainable.

    I think there should be independent stress testing done on people applying for mortgages as well. There were too many with agendas getting people to borrow well beyond their means


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  • #2112
    crusher000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    Without lending there will be no to little growth. I think we're all stressed tested to the limits.


  • #2113
    Dartz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Dartz


    crusher000 wrote: »
    Without lending there will be no to little growth. I think we're all stressed tested to the limits.


    Landlord is hounding the business I work for for a week's rent.
    Business is hounding a customer for the cost of a few grand's worth of gear
    Customer can't pay until they get paid for installing the gear for a homeowner.
    Homeowner was denied a loan from a bank to pay for it at the last minute.

    The same bank is hounding the landlord for loan payments on this industrial estate.


    Start knocking of CIT's and dumping the cash into public circulation. Robin-Hood style?


  • #2114
    Gmol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    crusher000 wrote: »
    Without lending there will be no to little growth. I think we're all stressed tested to the limits.

    there will be growth but it's got to be sustainable, for example no 100% or 120% mortgages, there should be limits on the ratio of borrowing compared to your income(these seems to be forgotten in the boom)

    re stress testing, it was the banks who were doing the stress testing or supposed to be and they have their own interests at heart, there should be a service set up to provide independent advice to the consumer and their recommendation should be forwarded to a bank with the consumer's mortgage application.


  • #2115
    crusher000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    There was they were called mortgage advisors. That's where I got mine and they didn't have a fiddle in the corner or puppet strings. They were also free (got commission from eventual lender) at the looks of things more regulated than the banks whom were dishing out the dosh.

    The gate is closed but the horse is well bolted and eaten, I may add in some very nice frozen food products.


  • #2116
    Gmol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    crusher000 wrote: »
    There was they were called mortgage advisors. That's where I got mine and they didn't have a fiddle in the corner or puppet strings. They were also free (got commission from eventual lender) at the looks of things more regulated than the banks whom were dishing out the dosh.

    The gate is closed but the horse is well bolted and eaten, I may add in some very nice frozen food products.

    yes but they were being paid on commission by the banks so it was in their interest to get people loans without caring how they could be paid back, that's independent advice Irish style

    As you say the horse is bolted but I would be interested in voting for a party who will put in place the regulations that ensure it can't happen again.
    Otherwise the same thing will happen in another 30 years, it will any way but we need to be able to restrict it's impact.


  • #2117
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,318 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Gmol wrote: »
    re stress testing, it was the banks who were doing the stress testing or supposed to be and they have their own interests at heart, there should be a service set up to provide independent advice to the consumer and their recommendation should be forwarded to a bank with the consumer's mortgage application.

    They have that in the US. It's credit checking. They base it on your proven ability to pay back any debts, your salary, health of your bank account over a number of years, number of accounts, credit cards which are healthy. They have three different credit authorities. It's still massively flawed


  • #2118
    Gmol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    They have that in the US. It's credit checking. They base it on your proven ability to pay back any debts, your salary, health of your bank account over a number of years, number of accounts, credit cards which are healthy. They have three different credit authorities. It's still massively flawed

    yes but it would be a start, if you can imagine the amount of people who may have been prevented wildly over exaggerating their income on applications, it mightn't have stopped all but a significant amount.


  • #2119
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Gmol wrote: »
    yes but it would be a start, if you can imagine the amount of people who may have been prevented wildly over exaggerating their income on applications, it mightn't have stopped all but a significant amount.

    the sub prime mortgage bubble was created and manipulated for so many reasons and not one of them was to give people and honest chance at owning their own homes. the ba$tards that started this couldn't give a fiddlers if people had homes after it all came crashing down cos they made super bucks at the time, paid extremely little to no taxes or faced any consequences for melting the whole financial system.


  • #2120
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    JohnFalstaff wrote: »
    Who the hell are The Jintos?? Is there some new hardline Irish Jihadi movement I should be afraid of??

    Yes, only they are not new. They are the Sinn Fein/IRA/Militant Republicans in ALL their guises: Sinn Fein, the IRA, the Provos, the Real IRA, the Continuity IRA, Eirigi, COIR, the Pro-Lifers, Shell to Sea, the New IRA, 32 Co. Solidarity, Republican Sinn Fein and INLA. Jinto is slang for Sinn Fein.


  • #2121
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭flutered


    BuilderPlumber wrote: »
    Yes, only they are not new. They are the Sinn Fein/IRA/Militant Republicans in ALL their guises: Sinn Fein, the IRA, the Provos, the Real IRA, the Continuity IRA, Eirigi, COIR, the Pro-Lifers, Shell to Sea, the New IRA, 32 Co. Solidarity, Republican Sinn Fein and INLA. Jinto is slang for Sinn Fein.

    please add the stickys to your list, they have doe more damage to my country than any of the above, also it looks like that they are taking obsene delight in continueing to do so, when tarring please use the same brush on all the varietys.


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  • #2122
    Quandary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭Quandary


    All quiet on the Anglo tape saga these days. If only the state were as good at governing the country as they are at covering their own asses we'dbe in a far better place.

    Any of the vastly too few articles relating to the anglo tapes on rhe RTE website has had public comments disabled. RTE is far too close to the government in power to be an impartial conduit for news in this country. Another bloated self serving cess pit that needs to be disbanded, but that's for another thread.


  • #2123
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Quandary wrote: »
    All quiet on the Anglo tape saga these days. If only the state were as good at governing the country as they are at covering their own asses we'dbe in a far better place.

    Any of the vastly too few articles relating to the anglo tapes on rhe RTE website has had public comments disabled. RTE is far too close to the government in power to be an impartial conduit for news in this country. Another bloated self serving cess pit that needs to be disbanded, but that's for another thread.

    there's still protests being organised about them and other issues, in Dublin at least


  • #2124
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭emo72


    lads did yis not see vincent last night? the dept of finance is up to its tits in corruption. i cant believe its all gone quiet on this. the bastids, basically a couple of people in finance sold us out to keep their pensions. there can be no other explanation.

    vincent pointed it out last night. theres no arguing with it. rte are not reporting it at all. its a media blackout.

    from this post in politics. read it. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85588841&postcount=554


  • #2125
    RiverOfLove
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭RiverOfLove


    emo72 wrote: »
    lads did yis not see vincent last night? the dept of finance is up to its tits in corruption. i cant believe its all gone quiet on this. the bastids, basically a couple of people in finance sold us out to keep their pensions. there can be no other explanation.

    vincent pointed it out last night. theres no arguing with it. rte are not reporting it at all. its a media blackout.

    from this post in politics. read it. http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85588841&postcount=554

    I didn't see VinnieB. There was a thread yesterday, just a very small thread, mind you, here in after hours on this.

    This is huge news. The Quinns are identifing the regulators role in this big, black mess.


  • #2126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    emo72 wrote: »
    lads did yis not see vincent last night? the dept of finance is up to its tits in corruption. i cant believe its all gone quiet on this. the bastids, basically a couple of people in finance sold us out to keep their pensions. there can be no other explanation.

    vincent pointed it out last night. theres no arguing with it. rte are not reporting it at all. its a media blackout.

    from this post in politics. read it. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85588841&postcount=554
    Why isn't any of this on RTE's website? I've seen or read nothing of this huge news in any media with the exception of VB the other night.

    Its frightening to think that this is a major cover up.


  • #2127
    Slick50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    flutered wrote: »
    please add the stickys to your list, they have doe more damage to my country than any of the above, also it looks like that they are taking obsene delight in continueing to do so, when tarring please use the same brush on all the varietys.
    We're gonna need a bigger brush!


  • #2128
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    What'a the betting there'll be a round of retirements in the Department in the near future - Just in time for them to avoid consequences and leave with a massive golden handshake.


  • #2129
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What'a the betting there'll be a round of retirements in the Department in the near future - Just in time for them to avoid consequences and leave with a massive golden handshake.

    it won't happen if we don't want it to happen, sit back and do nothing and expect government and all it's connected to just do the right thing is it?? have we not learned anything about how to hold these ba$tards to account???????


  • #2130
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    the truth will come out soon


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  • #2131
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,724 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    donegal_road wrote: »
    the truth will come out soon

    Seems to me at this stage that we can have all the "truth" we like but it's ultimately meaningless as there'll be no consequences to anyone involved. :mad:


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