Broken window landlord dispute - help!

BostonB · 14-02-2013 2:12pm

D3PO wrote: »

I dont rent but this is bullcrap. If the utility bills are in the tennants name firstly regardless of weather they are paid or not has nothing to do with the landlord.

there is no reason any proper professional landlord would leave utility bills in his or her name.

deposits should always be returnable on the day unless there is genuine damage in which case i think it reasonable for all to be witheld until the landlord has had the opportunity to price the repair / replacement of said item.

I've seen a cases where a utility bill in a tenants name had the outstanding balance transferred to the LL account, when it went unpaid. Also if there's unpaid bill the utility company might refused to set up the property again for another tenant until the balance is paid up.

Also if a LL has a tenant over staying. If the bill is in the LL they can forget to pay it, and it will get cut off.

Still it should be a form of a bond held by a 3rd party.

D3PO · 14-02-2013 2:30pm

BostonB wrote: »

I've seen a cases where a utility bill in a tenants name had the outstanding balance transferred to the LL account, when it went unpaid. Also if there's unpaid bill the utility company might refused to set up the property again for another tenant until the balance is paid up.

Also if a LL has a tenant over staying. If the bill is in the LL they can forget to pay it, and it will get cut off.

Still it should be a form of a bond held by a 3rd party.

i dont believe you have seen cases where a tennants bill has been transfered to a landlords. That is illegal

A utility company will not refuse to set up a property again for another tennant. its this misinformaition that makes tennants have to wait on their deposit when there is no need at all.

BostonB · 14-02-2013 2:55pm

Thats because illegal things don't happen?

I looked at the bills myself. Luckily it was an oversight by the tenant and they paid the outstanding amount.

I went into the details of the legality of this in their terms and conditions at the time. I can't find it now.

But theres been similar experiences before. Sorry for the old link.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=117888

djimi · 14-02-2013 3:17pm

I have heard of issues where an outstanding ESB bill has meant that a landlord cannot transfer the account back into their own name, but again I ask why couldnt the landlord make a simple phone call on the morning the keys are being handed back to enquire if there are going to be any issues?

BostonB · 14-02-2013 3:47pm

Because the LL doesn't have access to the tenants account, they are a 3rd party. ESB won't discuss it with them. The tenant said everything was cleared off. Finally it was through an agent, so the LL only heard about it 2nd hand. It only came to light when a strange amount came up on the LL own MPRN not the rented properties MPRN. So it wasn't discovered till the LL bill came through the door.

D3PO · 14-02-2013 3:53pm

BostonB wrote: »

Because the LL doesn't have access to the tenants account, they are a 3rd party. ESB won't discuss it with them. The tenant said everything was cleared off. Finally it was through an agent, so the LL only heard about it 2nd hand. It only came to light when a strange amount came up on the LL own MPRN not the rented properties MPRN. So it wasn't discovered till the LL bill came through the door.

because it would be so hard for the tennant to call the ESB on speaker with the letting agent present.
Is there no common sense in the world anymore

runawaybishop · 14-02-2013 3:57pm

BostonB wrote: »

Because the LL doesn't have access to the tenants account, they are a 3rd party. ESB won't discuss it with them. The tenant said everything was cleared off. Finally it was through an agent, so the LL only heard about it 2nd hand. It only came to light when a strange amount came up on the LL own MPRN not the rented properties MPRN. So it wasn't discovered till the LL bill came through the door.

A LL cant get details of a debt they will be liable to pay? That doesn't sound right.

mdebets · 14-02-2013 3:58pm

djimi wrote: »

I have heard of issues where an outstanding ESB bill has meant that a landlord cannot transfer the account back into their own name, but again I ask why couldnt the landlord make a simple phone call on the morning the keys are being handed back to enquire if there are going to be any issues?

Even if the ESB would be allowed, to give the landlord information about the tenant's account, they wouldn't be able to tell them if everything is settled with the tenant until after they have made the final meter reading (which they can't make until after the the final day of the lease agreement, as otherwise the tenant would either not have electricity for the last day or the landlord would have to pay for it).

D3PO · 14-02-2013 3:58pm

BostonB wrote: »

Thats because illegal things don't happen?

I looked at the bills myself. Luckily it was an oversight by the tenant and they paid the outstanding amount.

I went into the details of the legality of this in their terms and conditions at the time. I can't find it now.

But theres been similar experiences before. Sorry for the old link.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=117888

read post #17 in that link. Cant happen and if it does its an ESB oversight and your still not libel. So the point stands no reason not to be able to return deposit the same day especially when any utilities can be contacted at the time of handing back the keys to ensure no overdue bills that the landlord could be lible for.

BostonB · 14-02-2013 4:04pm

D3PO wrote: »

because it would be so hard for the tennant to call the ESB on speaker with the letting agent present.
Is there no common sense in the world anymore

Normally it wouldn't be an issue because...

D3PO wrote: »

...A utility company will not refuse to set up a property again for another tennant. its this misinformaition that makes tennants have to wait on their deposit when there is no need at all.

The outstanding balance should stay with whomever is account holder.

You wouldn't expect the ESB to transfer the bill to another account.

I found where I read this before..

https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/tcs/terms-and-conditions-re.jsp#t2-pay

If You have an account with Us at another residential premises, We may transfer any credit or debit between Your accounts in order to recover any money You owe Us. .

I think there's similar clause for GAIS and ESB.

BostonB · 14-02-2013 4:06pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

A LL cant get details of a debt they will be liable to pay? That doesn't sound right.

Its not right. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

runawaybishop · 14-02-2013 4:06pm

BostonB wrote: »

Its not right. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Fair point.

Mr.Wemmick · 14-02-2013 4:26pm

..and therein lies the problem of renting in Ireland - an unregulated mess, lacking in clarity and wide open for interpretation and abuse. No wonder there are so many threads on Boards from tenants trying to figure out what's what.

Why on earth isn't there added documentation standard in all contracts to be signed by both parties listing straightforward procedures that put the LL and tenant on a equal footing.

Documentation which covers all the basic areas: -
Tenant must show LL at the end of the rental period documented proof of closed utility bills which have been paid in full.
LL must do all property checks 2 weeks before moving out date allowing tenant adequate time to fix problems, make repairs..
Deposits must be returned to the tenant at the end of the contract period, signature needed as proof of payment etc..

It would make the whole process financially less painful for so many.

generalbison · 21-02-2013 10:17am

Eek, just been reading this on threshold's website about the hearing process:

The Hearing
· Person who submitted the application (the applicant) states their case first. You may call witnesses to support you case
· The respondent (landlord) is the given opportunity to cross examine the tenant and any witnesses
· Landlord will be then given opportunity to state their case
· Tenant will then be given the opportunity to cross examine the landlord. You should prepare a list of questions prior to hearing. Other relevant questions may occur to you during the hearing so it is advisable to make a note of these questions as they arise.

Sounds like I get to be a pretend lawyer for the day! :eek:

Funnyonion79 · 21-02-2013 11:02am

generalbison wrote: »

Eek, just been reading this on threshold's website about the hearing process:

Sounds like I get to be a pretend lawyer for the day! :eek:

Give 'er hell!!

generalbison · 27-02-2013 3:04pm

The hearing has been adjourned (postponed) at the request of the respondent (the landlord).

Seems the landlord intends to attend but couldn't make it on the date set for the hearing. There's been no new date set for it, so back to wait-and-see mode (but also gathering and submitting evidence etc)

generalbison · 26-04-2013 1:08pm

Brief update...

The hearing took place yesterday.

The landlord submitted screenshots of some of the posts from this thread as evidence.

It will be a few weeks before we are told what the determination on the case is.

ANXIOUS · 26-04-2013 1:11pm

Why would she have used screen shots from here. What a numpty

generalbison · 17-06-2013 1:56pm

The final update, I guess this brings this thread to a conclusion:

- Just over 3 weeks ago we received a letter saying that the PRTB had ruled in our favour, awarding us our security deposit back in full, plus a small amount in damages.

- The landlord did not lodge an appeal.

- The landlord has now paid us the full amount as determined by the PRTB.

Chris_5339762 · 17-06-2013 4:14pm

Great news! And thanks for the update.

djimi · 17-06-2013 5:07pm

Its only a shame that it took 11 months to sort, but you got the result in the end.

ANXIOUS · 17-06-2013 7:56pm

I hope that the cow boy landlord is still reading this thread.

April O Neill · 20-06-2013 2:35pm

generalbison wrote: »

The final update, I guess this brings this thread to a conclusion:

- Just over 3 weeks ago we received a letter saying that the PRTB had ruled in our favour, awarding us our security deposit back in full, plus a small amount in damages.

- The landlord did not lodge an appeal.

- The landlord has now paid us the full amount as determined by the PRTB.

Congratulations and well done for sticking to your guns!

One question though - how did she know about this thread?

generalbison · 27-06-2013 11:07am

April O Neill wrote: »

One question though - how did she know about this thread?

I dont know, but it's not like boards is a big secret (40th biggest forum in the world according to a forum ranking I saw).

quietsailor · 27-06-2013 11:17am

April O Neill wrote: »

Congratulations and well done for sticking to your guns!

One question though - how did she know about this thread?

You do know landlords are not all techo-phobes who are "feard that that the webinternetz thing will capture their souls" don't you?

There are several forums around here about renting, both from the LL & tenant point of views, good advice is to read both as you can see both points of view then and make life easier for yourself by forseeing any future problems and trying to avoid them

April O Neill · 27-06-2013 1:25pm

generalbison wrote: »

I dont know, but it's not like boards is a big secret (40th biggest forum in the world according to a forum ranking I saw).

quietsailor wrote: »

You do know landlords are not all techo-phobes who are "feard that that the webinternetz thing will capture their souls" don't you?

Jaysus lads, what's with the attitude?

Pawwed Rig · 27-06-2013 2:04pm

Great to hear OP. Too often these things don't reach their conclusion and bad behaviour goes un-punished so congratulations on your 'victory'.

quietsailor · 27-06-2013 10:24pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Great to hear OP. Too often these things don't reach their conclusion and bad behaviour goes un-punished so congratulations on your 'victory'.

Good Q - what's with your attitude? you write like you think all LLs are illiterate uneducated people who wouldn't have the nous to read an internet forum nor the intelligence to connect a thread with their own experiences. LLs have feelings too ya know

you do know generalbison is the person who started the thread don't you? I was being sarcastic (probably should havve stuck in a rolleyes but thought it would be self-explanatory) but gb won't have any attitude -- THEY WON

Edit: Whoops, sorry Pawwed Rig, don't know what happened there, I meant to quote April O Neill's comment "Jaysus lads, what's with the attitude?"

generalbison · 31-10-2019 4:42pm

Dredging up an old thread here, but stumbled onto some interesting articles today, relevant to all the trouble we went through 7 years ago

Spencer Dock tenants face eviction over building defects
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/spencer-dock-tenants-face-eviction-over-building-defects-1.3812756

"The letter, which was sent late last year, relates to 'potential defects in the window frames of the apartments'." 😱

"Several quantity surveyors' reports have reportedly discovered issues with windows, balconies, leaks and fire alarms at the development."

Celebrities drawn into legal action over Dublin luxury flats
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/celebrities-drawn-into-legal-action-over-dublin-luxury-flats-1.4039509?fbclid=IwAR1zB0TQ72rQKV-as22-49tadpg0r7lIvLAABZcETb4PBSOhQ_F9yoGJdeA

That surely explains why the window broke back then, just terrible build quality.

Cowboys, Ted! Bunch of cowboys!

dartboardio · 31-10-2019 9:40pm

The fact that she will not provide any evidence of her even having contacted the insurance company does show major red flags.

I'd be asking for confirmation or like you say a breakdown, from the company showing as to why they won't cover it. Then I'd be somewhat happy to fork out my money.

If she won't provide any proof or evidence as to why they won't cover it, then she can sing for the money. Chancer..

Oops- Just read the entire thread, and noted the date!

Bigmac1euro · 01-11-2019 5:10pm

generalbison wrote: »

Dredging up an old thread here, but stumbled onto some interesting articles today, relevant to all the trouble we went through 7 years ago

Spencer Dock tenants face eviction over building defects
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/spencer-dock-tenants-face-eviction-over-building-defects-1.3812756

"The letter, which was sent late last year, relates to 'potential defects in the window frames of the apartments'." ðŸ˜±

"Several quantity surveyors' reports have reportedly discovered issues with windows, balconies, leaks and fire alarms at the development."

Celebrities drawn into legal action over Dublin luxury flats
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/celebrities-drawn-into-legal-action-over-dublin-luxury-flats-1.4039509?fbclid=IwAR1zB0TQ72rQKV-as22-49tadpg0r7lIvLAABZcETb4PBSOhQ_F9yoGJdeA

That surely explains why the window broke back then, just terrible build quality.

Cowboys, Ted! Bunch of cowboys!

I have a crack in the small window of my bathroom and it happened after the first 6 months of being in the apartment which is about 3 years ago. Came back from holidays and noticed it. The crack is on the inside pane of glass. Window is only the size of 2 a4 pages but there seems to be water stuck between the 2 panes of glass. Never informed the LL because I assumed it had been there since I moved in. Now I’m thinking maybe it hasn’t been there since I moved in and after reading this I’m worried. Help!!!!
I should mention It’s a ground floor apt .
Anyway thought i would consult the master. I’m actually not joking should I inform the LL now ?

Broken window landlord dispute - help!

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