Broken window landlord dispute - help!

generalbison

6 weeks ago I came home from holidays to find my window badly cracked. It's a double glazed window on the outer part of an apartment block. The crack is on the inside pane but appears to be have started on the INSIDE of this inside pane.

I've had issues of extreme heat in the apartment (that was not within my control) and both my window and door were closed while I was away. I assume it was caused by heat, pressure or warping of the frame somehow during this time.

I emailed my landlord to let her know immediately and she sent someone to inspect the window a few weeks later and told me I would have to pay the excess on the insurance claim. There's a clause in my lease which states: "3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy" it also states "4.4 The landlord agrees to maintain the structure of the building and maintain the interior and fittings to the standard that existing at the start...".

I had no problem paying any excess on her insurance claim.

However, now she claims that her insurance won't cover the damage and that I must pay the replacement in full which is just under 2,000 and that this will NOT come out of my security deposit.

To me this sounds like she is trying to take my security deposit AND make me pay for the broken window also. I also think it sounds fishy that her insurance company wouldn't cover a damaged window when it clearly wasn't intentional or an accidental break.

What are my legal rights here?

What should I be asking my landlord for as proof of insurance?

What else should I be doing / who should I be contacting?

Any advice would be really appreciated, thanks!



Summary: Broken window in apartment, landlord wants me to pay for the replacement - what are my rights?


EDIT:
Here's more information I just found from the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 Act (amended in 2009)

Structural Condition
5. (1) A house to which these Regulations apply (hereinafter referred to as “the house”) shall be maintained in a proper state of structural repair.

(2) For the purposes of sub-article (1) ‘a proper state of structural repair’ means sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.”

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Sulla Felix

"3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy"

Who, in the lease, does this refer to? Post up the relevant part of the lease if you can.

Get her to get the refusal to cover in writing from the insurance company.

Threshold is always a good place to start.

Gary The Gamer

Refuse to pay. Refer her to the PRTB if she has any issues. Continue your tenancy for as long as you wish. Make sure not to pay your last months rent when leaving as this will be taken off you.

jd

2000 euro! It looks like she is going to completely replace the window, not just the glass.

generalbison

Its under the heading "Tenant Covenants" - photo below of the clause itself.

Gary The Gamer

Tenancy clauses are notoriously toothless. You can't sign away your basic tenancy rights. If you believe the broken glass was due to a defect in the glass or house yourself then it is up to your landlord to remedy the situation.

generalbison

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

Refuse to pay. Refer her to the PRTB if she has any issues. Continue your tenancy for as long as you wish. Make sure not to pay your last months rent when leaving as this will be taken off you.

Sounds like a great plan but unfortunately we just paid our last month's rent 1 week ago before we had knowledge of this.

generalbison

jd wrote: »

2000 euro! It looks like she is going to completely replace the window, not just the glass.

The reason I assume it's so much is because the quote includes the price of a cherry picker as we are not on the ground floor. However, we think the glass can also be replaced from the inside as it's a modern fitting.

L1011

generalbison wrote: »

The reason I assume it's so much is because the quote includes the price of a cherry picker as we are not on the ground floor. However, we think the glass can also be replaced from the inside as it's a modern fitting.

Its not safe to attempt to replace an upper-floor double glazing unit without someone on the outside.

Not that it affects the liability or not, though!

petethebrick

Are you mad in the head - you have no liability whatsoever for the broken window in this case. It is solely the landlord's responsibility to maintain the property and repair any structural damage. It sounds like your landlord is chancing her arm given the fact that you agreed to pay any excess over the insurance - why the hell would you have agreed to do this in the first place. You say you had no problem paying the excess -why?????

"3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy" This only refers to cases where you break the glass yourself

Keep documented evidence of all your dealings including pictures of the window etc. Go to see threshold if you need to and inform the landlord that you will in no way be held responsible for any repairs. Also inform her that if your deposit is not returned in full (minus deductions for wear and tear in apartment) that you will be hauling her down to the PRTB (where you will win and get your deposit plus damages).

Funnyonion79

Hi, I'm not a tenant but wanted to tell you my experience with a broken apartment window.

My little girl was waking early because if the light coming into her bedroom in the mornings so we taped a black bin bag to the window underneath her blackout blind to block out the excess light.

Never realised that this would cause a build up of heat, resulting in a large crack across the inner pane of glass in the double glazed window.

This is my own apartment and we are on the top floor so initially my first port of call was to the management company to see if we could claim off the block insurance to have the glass replaced.

The management company said that first of all, the excess to claim off the block policy was €1500 so not worth it, but secondly, apartment windows weren't covered by the block insurance anyway - we would have to cover the cost ourselves, as our contents obviously wouldn't cover windows either. So even if someone had damaged the window by throwing a stone at it for example (i.e. If the crack occurred through circumstances outside our control, like yours did), we would have had to pay to repair it out of our own pocket.

I thought we'd have to get a cherry picker as well to get the glass fixed but rang a company in Dublin and they came out to give us a quote and said they could fix it from the inside. Only cost €200. So not sure why landlord is telling you it costs €2k but she's probably correct about the insurance not covering it.

No idea if it's you or the landlord who's responsible for the repair, but if you'd prefer to get it sorted, you could always ring the place I did and get a quote off them and pass it on to the landlord. Pm me if you way details.

petethebrick

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Hi, I'm not a tenant but wanted to tell you my experience with a broken apartment window.

[/QUOTE

Her landlord's responsible - she isn't....end of story
She shouldn't be getting quotes anywhere, this will only get her more embroiled in the argument with the landlord over responsibility.

fasttalkerchat

Should that definitely be 2000 and not 200?
Fixing the window not your problem. If the LL refuses to fix it would you want to leave or would you stay?

generalbison

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy, as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, possible cause etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Graces7

generalbison wrote: »

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy, as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, possible cause etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Well done! She was trying it on and thought you would fall for it..

generalbison

After contacting Threshold, I was advised that the Housing Regulations i posted in the OP do apply, and supercede contract law, so the landlord is liable to fix the window, and not me. I emailed my landlord to tell her that I had been advised of this and quoted the relevant regulations to her.

Her response was that that is not the legal interpretation of the statutory instrument, 534, that I'm liable for the damages yada yada yada


Think I will have to take this to the PRTB and lodge a dispute application now. But I've read it takes 8-10 months at best for that to produce a resolution
She hasn't threatened to withhold the security deposit (yet), but I can't imagine she will be forthcoming with it. Or she will nit pick every tiny possible thing on inspecting the apartment when I leave this month, to rack up the charges for "fixing" things :rolleyes:

BostonB

Photograph everything so it will be useful in 10 months time when it gets to the PRTB.

generalbison

@BostonB good advice. Will photograph every detail once the place is empty and cleaned up.

Latest is that a glazier I called came out on Saturday to have a look. He said that a cherry picker wouldn't be necessary, he can do the replacement from the inside no hassle. But wont get a quote until tomorrow due to the bank holiday. He said it would be significantly cheaper without paying for a day's cherry picker rental, like the other crowd wanted.

Landlord also sent an email today requesting me to give a key to the concierge so a guy from the property management company can come "visit" the apartment for "15 minutes" on Thursday. I wont be giving a key to anyone until the lease is up, and will just be here when the guy visits. I wonder why he is coming, as when I talked to the management company, they said they would not get involved in any landlord/tenant dispute.

generalbison

Well guess who showed up with the guy from the property management company? Only the landlord herself, flew over from the UK to inspect the apartment.

Note, she never informed me that she was coming, only the property management guy, so I believe she is in breach of the lease on that.
Also, she can't conduct the final inspection until after Ive moved out and cleaned the place, right? She went around taking notes of any tiny detail she thought she could rip off the security deposit for.
And she never told us that there would be an inspection, her words were "a visit" from the property management guy.

So angry :mad::mad::mad:

My glazier came back with a quote of €480 (a lot less than her quote of €1700!). But she insists on using the original company as they are the "preferred suppliers" of the property management company. Despite our glazier being fully accredited, and sourcing the exact same glass & spec for the replacement.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! :mad:

Going to have to step it up with the solicitor and PRTB. I just want all this to be over!

Funnyonion79

God OP - I really feel for you. The landlord is being a complete b***h!!

I hope you're documenting everything so that you have all the info when your PRTB hearing comes around.

She is being totally unreasonable - why doesn't she just pay the €480 to get the window fixed and no biggie? Why go to the bother of fighting it out, just so the "preferred supplier" can charge €2k for the same thing. That's ridiculous. Nobody is going to rule that she should've gone with the €2k company over the €480 company. She's wasting her own time and money there.

It's such a pity that it all has to end up like this. I guess you should take it that she'll keep your deposit but you will probably get it back again in a few months time, as I'm sure the PRTB will rule in your favour. Like another poster said, take videos of the place when you leave so you can prove the condition you left it in. Remember to clean the oven - they often try to say it was left dirty.

Did you get a quote for the window in writing from the company with a date on it? Just so you can prove you went to the trouble of trying to source a cheaper quote for her. Can you email or post her a copy of the quote to prove that you showed it to her and she refused it - again, so you have proof for the hearing. Otherwise, she could say she never saw the quote.

generalbison

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

I hope you're documenting everything so that you have all the info when your PRTB hearing comes around.

Documenting as much as I can yeah, but its all in emails mostly. She has refused to give contact details (address/phone) thus far, but i just got them from the estate agents that I was paying rent through.

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

She is being totally unreasonable - why doesn't she just pay the €480 to get the window fixed and no biggie? Why go to the bother of fighting it out, just so the "preferred supplier" can charge €2k for the same thing. That's ridiculous. Nobody is going to rule that she should've gone with the €2k company over the €480 company. She's wasting her own time and money there.

She is starting to sound like she might waiver here. But she wants to investigate the company we got the quote from, to see they are fit to do the job. And she wants to run it all past the original company to see if they agree that the specs are right. (Im gonna guess they say no, it aint right, as they stand to lose 1700 euro of business if someone else does it, duh!)

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Like another poster said, take videos of the place when you leave so you can prove the condition you left it in. Remember to clean the oven - they often try to say it was left dirty.

Yeah, plan to thoroughly clean the place, every inch, and take photo/video of everything after its done. Only other issue is that the walls need repainting, as they are a bit grubby. A combination of the fact she was a smoker so walls were covered in grime when I moved in, and when I attempted to clean em once, it made matters worse. I dunno if I should do it, or let her deduct the cost of paint from the deposit.

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Did you get a quote for the window in writing from the company with a date on it? Just so you can prove you went to the trouble of trying to source a cheaper quote for her. Can you email or post her a copy of the quote to prove that you showed it to her and she refused it - again, so you have proof for the hearing. Otherwise, she could say she never saw the quote.

Yeah I have the quote, with exact sepcifications of the like-for-like replacement etc. Sent that to her in an email, and she's still resistent, and wants to investigate the company and specs provided as i said above.

fasttalkerchat

At this stage I'm surprised you let her in. I would tell her that she is no longer welcome and request mutual termination of the lease will full deposit returned if you will pay moving costs.
If she accepts it would be for the best because nothing good can come of you continuing to pay for such shoddy service.

trishasaffron

generalbison wrote: »

Yeah, plan to thoroughly clean the place, every inch, and take photo/video of everything after its done. Only other issue is that the walls need repainting, as they are a bit grubby. A combination of the fact she was a smoker so walls were covered in grime when I moved in, and when I attempted to clean em once, it made matters worse. I dunno if I should do it, or let her deduct the cost of paint from the deposit. But she will probably get the finest paint costing 2 grand a bucket, and fly in italian artists to re-do it for her :rolleyes: She doesnt give a monkeys about the expense of stuff.

Depending on how long you are there this would be regarded as fair wear and tear and not your responsibility.

I just moved out of 3 year rental and the landlord really wanted the place "as new" but even he recognised that touch up painting was his job. He made me clean and polish so that the place was cleaner than anything I've every seen!! But it was worth it to get the deposit back without going to PRTB/Court.

Landlord sounds like a wagon - happy to take your rent but not so happy to take her responsibilities.

generalbison

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

At this stage I'm surprised you let her in. I would tell her that she is no longer welcome and request mutual termination of the lease will full deposit returned if you will pay moving costs.
If she accepts it would be for the best because nothing good can come of you continuing to pay for such shoddy service.

Was completely surprised she turned up (with her own keys no less. is that dodgy?), and she just barged straight in before I even knew who she was, as this is the first time we met!

Moving to a new place this weekend, lease ends 31st.

I can ask the solicitor tomorrow if we have any recourse in getting rent back, early termination etc (along with a million other questions)

generalbison

trishasaffron wrote: »

Depending on how long you are there this would be regarded as fair wear and tear and not your responsibility.

I just moved out of 3 year rental and the landlord really wanted the place "as new" but even he recognised that touch up painting was his job. He made me clean and polish so that the place was cleaner than anything I've every seen!! But it was worth it to get the deposit back without going to PRTB/Court.

Interesting. I told the landlady about the walls quite a while ago, and she agreed in email to cover the cost of the paint if I did the painting. But I never got around to it unfortunately, my own lazy fault there.

So that email could come in handy if she tries to claim for any paint.

petethebrick

generalbison wrote: »

Id almost be willing to call it a day and pay the 480, if she would just back down, be sensible and let the cheaper glazier do the job. But I worry about what phantom stuff she is going to claim from the deposit.

Stop being so silly - don't pay her anything!! Doing so would appear like an admission of responsibility, which you aren't. Paying off blackmailing landlords like this on;ly encourages them to attempt to rip off the rest of us tenants!


Be firm, tell her you aren't paying anything and tell her you want your deposit back. Demand receipts for any cleaning/repairs she deducts for.

fasttalkerchat

Pay nothing. If you haven't paid this month's rent; don't. You can be sure she will take your deposit regardless. If you use a removal company get a receipt and claim for that should she try to go to court. Take plenty of photos before you move out.

ABajaninCork

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

Gary The Gamer

generalbison wrote: »

Going to have to step it up with the solicitor and PRTB. I just want all this to be over!

Seriously, don't waste your money on a solicitor. You won't be able to claim the charges back. Make a complaint the PRTB to the visit without prior notification. Get that in now. When the deposit is not forthcoming stick in your claim and be ready to wait it out. Don't stress over this as ultimately it is not worth it. You will probably win so just relax and move on.

Arciphel

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

Oh yes 100% this!

generalbison

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

This came up in my last place, so I was on top of it when I moved in. She organised for an estate agent to take all the rent payment for the entire tenancy, thus skirting around the tax issue of living abroad.

ABajaninCork

Pity. Thought it might be another stick to beat her with!

Best of luck anyway!

Gary The Gamer

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Pity. Thought it might be another stick to beat her with!

Best of luck anyway!

Always make sure to let revenue know about the situation to be completely in the clear yourself.

January

DO NOT let her take any of the deposit for repainting, unless you were throwing mud against the walls or had kids doodling all over it then it's wear and tear and she can't take anything for it.

generalbison

Solicitor on friday said I am in the right as far as he is concerned, and in a good position given the "paper trail" of the email history, and given how badly the landlord has acted thus far. In particular the unannounced visit by the landlord is a big no-no, breach of the lease, and the PRTB will take a very dim view of that. He even suggested that that "visit" in itself could be grounds for a separate complaint to the PRTB, or just roll it up with the window business to build/support the case.

He helped me draft up a letter that I sent to her via email. Her reaction was predictably bullish, and she wants to speak directly to the solicitor now. I don't know why, but it will soon all be in the hands of the PRTB.

I'm sort of expecting her to demand I cover her bills for legal fees and for her flight over for the surprise inspection or something. I wouldn't put anything past her.

My mother was there for the surprise visit. Mum said afterwards that the landlord was the most vile, awful, detestable person she had ever met in her 60 years, and she has had to deal with plenty of dodgy customers in her job over the years. She was visibly upset after the landlord had left, and has asked not to be involved at all from now on, as she never wants to see, hear or meet the landlord EVER again. Said she felt like throwing up after the meeting, and to make matters worse got trapped in the lift for 5-10 minutes when she left :eek:

I wish I could warn potential future tenants about the landlord

generalbison

Question: Can the landlord take this up a notch to a civil case or something, and just sue us, separate to the PRTB? As in force us into a law case with lawyers and legal expenses. As she probably thinks that the PRTB wont do her any favours, so her best chance is to splash some money at the problem, and thinks that we wont be able to afford fighting that kind of case.

BostonB

http://www.landlordsonline.ie/q-a/general/i-am-unhappy-with-the-prtbs-decision/

generalbison

Just to keep this updated. It's been all quiet for the last week or so. Too quiet!

Cleaned the apartment yesterday for hours, and it is pristine! Only things left are to mop living room/kitchen floors and re-tackle the oven, as the grease/grime is being stubborn in there

Worries me a bit that landlord has gone dead quiet. My paranoia says she is planning something, or waiting for her moment to strike, but we shall see.

Lease ends on 31st, so will see what happens when it comes to deposit return, which I fear will lead to a whole new chapter in this tale.

Funnyonion79

That oven pride is amazing stuff for cleaning the oven. Mine was disgusting and the oven glass was pure black with grease. You wouldn't even have known it was a pane of glass!

Some hot water, baking soda, elbow grease and then oven pride - turned it into a sparkling clean oven again. Couldn't believe that the glass came out so well. Now you can see right into it again!!

generalbison

Long overdue update!

So, lease ended, moved out, and surprise surprise the landlord did not return the security deposit. Waited 6 weeks for it, as 1 month is the minimum reasonable time you have to wait for deposit return. Then lodged a dispute with the PRTB in October.

Yesterday PRTB called to say that the case is now being looked into. Today got an email to say that a provisional hearing date is scheduled for mid-March, for resolution by adjudication.

I've compiled all the emails back n forth over the whole thing into an easy to read document, that i will submit as evidence through the PRTB's dispute website.

The thing is, from what the PRTB rep said, this all boils down to a simple deposit withholding case. The window stuff is superfluous, as the deposit withholding is most important. So if the PRTB rule in my favour and the deposit is returned, it may mean that the landlord can still submit their own dispute through PRTB over the window. But that would take another 9-12 months to process before a hearing is scheduled as it is not as high a priority.
But who knows, at the hearing the adjudicator may make a statement/ruling on the window issue as well.


So anyone know what the adjudication process is like?
No idea if the ex-landlord will even bother to fly over from UK for it.

Funnyonion79

Well done for seeing it through. Hopefully you should get a judgement in your favour to teach this desperate landlord a lesson!!

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

Zamboni

First of all. Good stuff.

generalbison wrote: »

So, lease ended, moved out, and surprise surprise the landlord did not return the security deposit. Waited 6 weeks for it, as 1 month is the minimum reasonable time you have to wait for deposit return.

Where did this advice come from?
Landlords/agents would hardly wait 6 weeks for tenants to stump up a deposit on the start of a lease.
There is no reason why they should be allowed this time-frame to return it.

the_syco

generalbison wrote: »

I wish I could warn potential future tenants about the landlord

If you win the PTRB ruling, accidentally post yourself a letter about winning the case, to your old apartment...? :P

xper

generalbison wrote: »

The thing is, from what the PRTB rep said, this all boils down to a simple deposit withholding case. The window stuff is superfluous, as the deposit withholding is most important.

This makes sense. Unlike the other matters*, you are actually out of pocket for the deposit. Cash is king. The window issue was always in the landlord's court to bring to the PRTB (and lose!). Did you make a specific complaint about the unannounced visit trespass in addition to the deposit retention?

* That's right isn't it? You didn't hand over any money for the window, I hope.

If all the facts are as you presented to us in this thread, she hasn't a leg to stand on and the PRTB will rule against her. Be aware that at that point, she might still not hand over the money if she's still in belligerent mode. In that case, you'd have to get an enforcement order in court or get the PRTB to enforce it (which, it has been reported, they are slow to do).


As for warning future tenants, there are so many ill-informed, irresponsible or downright abusive landlords that I am really coming to the view that a properly run nd publicly accessible licensing system for landlords, with penalty points for transgressions, would be a good idea (as long as it is used by the state to regulate, not generate income).

BostonB

xper wrote: »

...As for warning future tenants, there are so many ill-informed, irresponsible or downright abusive landlords that I am really coming to the view that a properly run nd publicly accessible licensing system for landlords, with penalty points for transgressions, would be a good idea (as long as it is used by the state to regulate, not generate income).

Ditto tenants. Both lodge a bond/deposit. Abuse it, and lose it.

djimi

Zamboni wrote: »

Where did this advice come from?
Landlords/agents would hardly wait 6 weeks for tenants to stump up a deposit on the start of a lease.
There is no reason why they should be allowed this time-frame to return it.

Id love to know the legal position of this. I am of the opinion that a week is the absolute most that any tenant should be waiting for their deposit to be returned, but for the most part there is no good reason why it cannot be returned on the same day the keys are handed back. Anything more than a week is theft in my opinion.

mdebets

djimi wrote: »

Id love to know the legal position of this. I am of the opinion that a week is the absolute most that any tenant should be waiting for their deposit to be returned, but for the most part there is no good reason why it cannot be returned on the same day the keys are handed back. Anything more than a week is theft in my opinion.

I have to disagree with you here. Even 4 weeks might be a little bit short. The landlord should keep all/part of the deposit, to cover himself against outstanding utility bills, unless the tenant has closing bills for all the utilities that were in his name.

generalbison

Zamboni wrote: »

Where did this advice come from?
Landlords/agents would hardly wait 6 weeks for tenants to stump up a deposit on the start of a lease.
There is no reason why they should be allowed this time-frame to return it.

I can't remember where I read it now, but I'm sure I read that 30 days was the "reasonable amount of time" to wait for deposit return before lodging a PRTB complaint/dispute (the extra 2 week delay was my own fault). Had a quick google but can't seem to find the source now. Perhaps I was mistaken about this.

xper wrote: »

This makes sense. Unlike the other matters*, you are actually out of pocket for the deposit. Cash is king. The window issue was always in the landlord's court to bring to the PRTB (and lose!). Did you make a specific complaint about the unannounced visit trespass in addition to the deposit retention?

* That's right isn't it? You didn't hand over any money for the window, I hope.

- Yes, included in the PRTB complaint is the fact that she showed up unannounced.

- And yes, haven't handed over a cent for the window. She just kept the deposit to pay for it, which she even said herself that she would not accept payment for the window out of the security deposit

djimi

mdebets wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here. Even 4 weeks might be a little bit short. The landlord should keep all/part of the deposit, to cover himself against outstanding utility bills, unless the tenant has closing bills for all the utilities that were in his name.

Utililty bills are in my name, not the landlords, therefore its my problem if they are not closed off. If the bills are in the landlords name then its a different story, but how long does it take to make a phone call to the utility company to see how much is outstanding on the account? A half an hour should cover such checks, not a day or a week and certainly not a month.

The tenant needs their deposit to move into their next place. Even keeping it for a week is taking the piss; to hold it for a month is downright absurd, and can hugely affect the tenants ability to move into their new property.

Mr.Wemmick

mdebets wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here. Even 4 weeks might be a little bit short. The landlord should keep all/part of the deposit, to cover himself against outstanding utility bills, unless the tenant has closing bills for all the utilities that were in his name.

So a tenant should be punished and suffer out of the lack of organisation or foresight on the part of the Landlord or so-called professional agent? If notice has been given then it is up to the LL and tenant to get everything in order within the notice period: bills paid, property checked, cleaning, repairs done etc. On the moving out date, once a final check has been completed, the tenant's money should be automatically be given back, there and then.

Any deductions for damages should be agreed and signed for by both parties during the notice period. It's not rocket science.. just a small amount of organisational foresight is needed, and saying that a LL requires weeks to sort out bills, check property etc. is absolute nonsense.. a con more like: illegally holding on to someone else's money.

D3PO

mdebets wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here. Even 4 weeks might be a little bit short. The landlord should keep all/part of the deposit, to cover himself against outstanding utility bills, unless the tenant has closing bills for all the utilities that were in his name.

I dont rent but this is bullcrap. If the utility bills are in the tennants name firstly regardless of weather they are paid or not has nothing to do with the landlord.

there is no reason any proper professional landlord would leave utility bills in his or her name.

deposits should always be returnable on the day unless there is genuine damage in which case i think it reasonable for all to be witheld until the landlord has had the opportunity to price the repair / replacement of said item.