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High Court moron forces ISP's to block Torrent sites

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    #302
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    The point I was trying to get to (unsuccessfully) is if they had never signed to a label would they have lasted long enough and had enough success to become some of the biggest bands in the world.

    Do you think the record company model is sustainable in the age of the download and social media? Behemoths in the last throes of their downfall imho.


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    #303
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    MadsL wrote: »
    Do you think the record company model is sustainable in the age of the download and social media? Behemoths in the last throes of their downfall imho.

    It's not about what generation a band happens to be making music in. When it comes down to it artists when they reach a certain level will need the financial muscle of a record company for PR, touring and studio costs, technicians, advertising etc.


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    #304
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    It's not about what generation a band happens to be making music in. When it comes down to it artists when they reach a certain level will need the financial muscle of a record company for PR, touring and studio costs, technicians, advertising etc.

    And then they reach this level....


    http://i.imgur.com/Mx9gBdw.png


    PR/advertising often = telling people what they should be listening to. We need that clearly.


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    #305
    Notorious97
    Registered Users Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Notorious97


    I think someone needs to hold a tutorial seasion on how to beat the block :)

    Im grand with torrents but if i suddenly woke up couldnt get onto a site id be scratching my head haha


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    #306
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    MadsL wrote: »
    And then they reach this level....


    http://i.imgur.com/Mx9gBdw.png


    PR/advertising often = telling people what they should be listening to. We need that clearly.

    Go on then, form a band, refuse to sign a record deal of any sort and see how far you get on your own.


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    #307
    McLoughlin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭McLoughlin


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    Go on then, form a band, refuse to sign a record deal of any sort and see how far you get on your own.

    Adebisi Shank have done very well doing things on there own terms over the past several years.


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    #308
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    Go on then, form a band, refuse to sign a record deal of any sort and see how far you get on your own.

    Go on then, make a carriage that isn't pulled by a horse and see how far you get on your own.


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    #309
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    McLoughlin wrote: »
    Adebisi Shank have done very well doing things on there own terms over the past several years.

    They still had label support (Richter Collective)


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    #310
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    MadsL wrote: »
    Go on then, make a carriage that isn't pulled by a horse and see how far you get on your own.

    Care to explain what you mean by this?


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    #311
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    McLoughlin wrote: »
    Adebisi Shank have done very well doing things on there own terms over the past several years.
    Not really, in terms of making it big though.

    I think it's only reasonable to accept that torrents are changing music. Sure, it's more accessible, and it's easier to have 10,000 tracks in your bedroom, but it's not necessarily to the benefit of creating musical heroes, or consistency, or maintaining quality for example.

    Of course there are positives to free downloads. But just like with any industry, you can't just expect to rip the funding out of music and expect no repercussions.


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    #312
    LiamKK1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭LiamKK1982


    I'm with three & I was wondering when they do eventually block TPB, could I be kicked off the network for accessing it using proxies or other methods.


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    #313
    McLoughlin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭McLoughlin


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    They still had label support (Richter Collective)

    That was their own label and I wouldn't call Richter Collective a major label now or neither Sargent House.


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    #314
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    MadsL wrote: »
    Do you think the record company model is sustainable in the age of the download and social media? Behemoths in the last throes of their downfall imho.

    It may be an outdated model that needs to change but having all music and movies pirated and available on line for free isn't sustainable either.


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    #315
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    Care to explain what you mean by this?

    Clinging to outdated technology and business models is like claiming that there is only one way to do things. My analogy alluded to the fact that horseless carriages were widely ridiculed.

    The inconsistency of the models now is absurd. I can play a song all day on Grooveshark but to download it is illegal. It is no wonder people cannot see the differences in the business models and have started to regard music as a free commodity.


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    #316
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    It may be an outdated model that needs to change but having all music and movies pirated and available on line for free isn't sustainable either.

    Pirates of the Caribbean 4 grossed $241,071,802

    I see what you mean. Unsustainable.


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    #317
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    It may be an outdated model that needs to change but having all music and movies pirated and available on line for free isn't sustainable either.

    Whos saying thats how it should be?
    Theres countless studies out there showing if people were given reasonable ways to access their movies/music/tv with reasoanble subscription based model that they would pay for it over pirating it. Spotifys success proves this.
    Yes Netflix is ok for tv and movies but its still not good enough and outside the US its a fucking joke.
    I want to be able to watch a movie in my home the day it releases in a cinema and i will happily pay for it. The same with TV i refuse to wait months and in some pathetic cases up to a year for my favorite shows to air on tv stations i have access to or be "allowed" on irish Netflix.
    Until that kind of service is available to me i will stream and "pirate" cus i dont think these companies deserve my money for the lazy ass way they go about business


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    #318
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Is it?

    Yes, it is. Yes, all they store are torrent files, and they hold no copyrighted material themselves, this i know. I also know however that i can use these torrent files to get a shiny new video for free, zip, nada.

    If i hold phones in my home, used as a link between junkies and drug dealers, but hold no drugs in my house, i'm still liable for facilitation!
    runawaybishop wrote: »
    So websites are responsible for the content their users post links to - fine. All community sites are now illegal and should be shut down - at the request of corporations and to the detriment of peoples freedom.

    I have no issue with freedom of information, provided the information being distributed is indeed free.
    You can't rip people off and hide behind the "help help i'm being oppressed!" argument.
    If you should have paid for something and you didn't, its theft, plain and simple.

    The pirate bay isn't a community.

    They have discussion boards but this is limited to posts of "Cam vid, little shaky, A8/10, V5/10, thanks uploader!" This type of discussion can hardly be called a community, as discussion never goes any further than that.

    Websites are indeed responsible for what their users post. Boards.ie is a prime example of this, if anyone posts illegal crap, they have a responsibility to take it down, else they are liable. This is fact, and enforced by the moderation team.


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    #319
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,578 ✭✭✭✭briany


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Yes, it is. Yes, all they store are torrent files, and they hold no copyrighted material themselves, this i know. I also know however that i can use these torrent files to get a shiny new video for free, zip, nada.

    If i hold phones in my home, used as a link between junkies and drug dealers, but hold no drugs in my house, i'm still liable for facilitation!

    Yeah, they could arrest you and put you in prison. A dangerous person off the streets I'm sure. Meanwhile, drug dealing and drug taking continues unabated and indifferent. Maybe the authorities can put in some kind of system that causes phones to hang up whenever words like 'heroin' or 'mushrooms' are mentioned, too.

    Websites are indeed responsible for what their users post. Boards.ie is a prime example of this, if anyone posts illegal crap, they have a responsibility to take it down, else they are liable. This is fact, and enforced by the moderation team.
    Google are also liable for this. Their takedown policy is ineffective in beating back this tide and they know it. Why not try to sue Google, too? They're possibly the greatest facilitator of all. Why not try to throttle certain protocols? Why not try to do something of actual consequence instead of looking like a bunch of out of touch Luddites?


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    #320
    Jericho.
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Jericho.


    Not much but something to in someway resist this. Please sign, it might help.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Free_access_to_the_internet_in_Ireland


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    #321
    120_Minutes
    Registered Users Posts: 4,706 ✭✭✭120_Minutes


    McLoughlin wrote: »
    Did any one get a letter from IRMA/Eircom over been caught illegally downloading music via torrent ?

    Yes I personally know someone who got a letter as per the "three strike" rule.


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    #322
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/status/161600885435281409
    Seán Sherlock @seansherlocktd There is no intention by the government to introduce legislation to block access to the Internet or sites. I have state that unambiguously.
    12:07 AM - 24 Jan 2012

    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/statuses/161613097763733504
    how? How bout. No we will not legislate to block your access to websites. Keep searching. Eu law upholds your right to do so

    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/statuses/161605870420099072
    you should then read my press releases. But I will provide further clarity. No sane person would seek to censor Internet.

    Just parts of it...


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    #323
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    Allyall wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/status/161600885435281409



    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/statuses/161613097763733504



    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/statuses/161605870420099072


    Just parts of it...

    The parts of it that flout copyright law yes...


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    #324
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    The parts of it that flout copyright law yes...

    Yes.
    Just parts of it..


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    #325
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    The only surprise is that it's taken so long.


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    #326
    miralize
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭miralize


    So, could the EU overrule this decision?


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    #327
    AntiRip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    miralize wrote: »
    So, could the EU overrule this decision?

    No i dont think so. I read somewhere in another article that The EU ruling was to prevent ISPs from blocking or throttling customers' access to services that rival their own, it doesn't include website blocking of allegedly copyright infringing sites.

    http://www.zdnet.com/sorry-folks-eu-net-neutrality-plans-wont-kill-website-blocking-7000016454


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    #328
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    miralize wrote: »
    So, could the EU overrule this decision?
    This is why the High Court ruling is so perplexing.

    It was previously believed that the CJEU had rules that any preventive monitoring and ongoing observation of electronic communications that were conducted on an ISP's network could easily be argued to be in breach the Electronic Commerce Directive.

    The EU Courts also said that an ISP could only be required to install this sort of site-blocking if maintaining the block were (i) fair, (ii) proportional and (iii) not excessively complicated or costly.

    Now you might say 'fair enough, this must not be a significant burden on UPC or Eircom, so putting this burden on them is legally acceptable'. But here's the thing.

    Before the CJEU came to that decision, UPC and Eircom were before the Irish Courts, arguing that this was an unreasonable, expensive, cumbersome, ongoing burden.

    And despite knowing the CJEU ruling on this, they have now suddenly dropped that argument. It's all quite odd.


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    #329
    Jericho.
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Jericho.


    The next round of website blocking is already underway.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/record-companies-to-target-20-more-pirate-sites-after-court-ruling-29341201.html


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    #330
    Doctor Strange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Doctor Strange


    Jericho. wrote: »
    The next round of website blocking is already underway.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/record-companies-to-target-20-more-pirate-sites-after-court-ruling-29341201.html

    IRMA has never heard of a proxy server, have they?


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    #331
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    We should all donate, to fund a case to block google on the same grounds :D


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