garda Sergeant Sexually assaults colleague

eireannBEAR wrote: »

one

eireannBEAR wrote: »

two.

both were later edited as she realized this was a serious topic.

Eh... you realise those were both parodies, right?

eireannBEAR wrote: »

they were later edited to look as such.

You mean after people didn't realise they were parodies?

I think that this is sad for everyone concerned. I think that it could have been dealt with without the courts. I think that if someone spoke to me, or touched me in that way then I would say something straight away that would scare/embarrass him into never trying it again. One quick comment, and then say that I like to keep everything on a professional level and would expect the same from you. And then eyeball him so he clearly got the message.

It's happened, not in my job now, but when I worked in pubs through college. They never try again cos they know you won't accept it. And I love a laugh and a dirty joke.

Shocking behavior from a Garda Sargeant to treat a female work colleague in this despicable way. Imagine if a young girl made a complaint to this man I wonder how seriously would he treat her complaint or if he arrested a pretty young girl with a short skirt say with too much drink in her how safe would she be with a man who thinks sexual assault is a bit of fun. This isn't the first complaint against this man which is all the more shocking. And we wonder why rape is not always reported.

Monkeymama wrote: »

I don't wish to make anyone angry or to take away from what the victim went through, an I'm not saying he should have got away with it, however, he did something stupid, thinking he was funny and it has majorly bitten him in the ass. He has served in the guards for 29 years and believe me he has done a lot of good over those years and helped plenty of women and children who were sexually assaulted and supported them through the courts. His side of the story has had absolutely no coverage, again I'm not saying it was ok but it does makes you think.He is a dad and a grandad and it has been hard on everyone to have had to go through this as from reading all the coverage and comments it paints him as an awful person and he really isn't. I fully expect to be attacked over this post but so be it.

What exactly is "his side of the story?" Presumably he had the chance to tell his side in court, no?
How does being a dad and a grandad make his behaviour any less illegal and unacceptable? Does he have the right to sexually assault a woman just because he has "supported" women and children who have been sexually abused? One would think that kind of experience would make him less likely to go around sexually harassing colleagues.
I'm sorry for his family but he is the one who brought this on them.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

no these issues are all to often blown out of proportion. just as men often like to play the hero or aggressor,women often like to play the victim,this is just human nature,that is why people get offended when we see little acts getting blown out of all proportion.

In fairness female gaurds are generally anything but victims.

Guys an idiot and a perv and glad that they threw the book at him. But.... tbh I think the term sexual assualt is being demeaned by cases such as this. He gyrated his hips for a few seconds and she went off to cry because she felt dirty? Have people no resilience anymore? Think they should introduce a new term for this such as pervy wanker grope and leave the term sexual assault for serious assaults. Feminism has done itself a diservice with their ever expanding defintions for domestic violence and sexual assault.. the result of it being that people unfortunately don't treat it as seriously anymore as it should be.

FTA69 wrote: »

At the very least it's sexual harassment, and I don't think it's fair to pawn that off and just tell your one she needs "a bit of resilience." Whether she needs to "toughen up" or not isn't the point here, the point is that a woman was serially belittled, bullied and made to feel like sh*t by her superior who targeted her in a sexual manner. That is plain wrong and there is too much talk around these cases that serves to trivialise or belittle this kind of action. I've seen awful bullying written off as "messing" with the perpetrator being held up "as a grand lad" in general. It's disgraceful what happened to this woman and I can't see why people continuously need to qualify this behaviour or make excuses for it instead of just condemning it outright.

Serially belittled? Maybe I'm reading a different article so apologies if there is another source that I have had access to.. according to the independent if was a few seconds of 'gyration' and a couple of comments. Sexual harrasment? Absolutely! Sexual assault? I dont think so... it may be in the eyes of the law but imo the definition is too broad if that is considered sexual assault. She is a Garda Siochana and she should be able to handle situations such as the one in question with some more resilience and assertiveness.. If she cant manage that sort of situation then how is she supposed to manage in a job where there are likely to be far worse scenarios. Not excusing the behaviour of the guy for one second but do feel we are overblowing it to an extent.

FTA69 wrote: »

Read the article in the OP. There were numerous comments and numerous incidents of actual groping. When it gets into the groping territory including shoving someone's crotch into their arse and grabbing breasts I wouldn't have much problem with using the sexual assault term at all.

I think you are confusing two different instances and 'victims'. It doesnt say he touched her breasts and it doesnt say numerous incidents of groping.

FTA69 wrote: »

It's different when it's coming from your superior office who is also supposed to be your line manager, she was still victimised by a person with authority over her. It's not like she could overawe him with her uniform and threaten to arrest him is it? She was in a position of complete powerlessness, regardless of what job she's in.

I just dont agree with this.. a person is a person line manager or not. This line thats trotted out that "she/he was my boss so it was worse" doesnt apply here. Maybe in a circumstance where she feared for her job that would apply but not here imo.

I think you are confusing two different instances and 'victims'. It doesnt say he touched her breasts and it doesnt say numerous incidents of groping.

Mate read the article!

A judge heard that he pushed his pelvic region against the woman's behind, grabbed her hips and began gyrating while saying, “she likes it this way”.

it was alleged he touched the officer's breast while telling her “wake up there” in June 2010.

This coupled with comments such "you're good at riding" etc leads to me this wasn't a one-off stupid comment; rather the actions of a stupid pig of a man who probably thought he was great craic altogether.

I just dont agree with this.. a person is a person line manager or not. This line thats trotted out that "she/he was my boss so it was worse" doesnt apply here. Maybe in a circumstance where she feared for her job that would apply but not here imo.

Why doesn't it apply here? You were trying to say the fact she's a cop should mean she shouldn't have any fear of anyone because she deals with criminal elements etc and she should be suitably "tough". In this case, all of that counts for f*ck all because she was made powerless by a superior. Who was she going to complain to when it was her boss doing the bullying? Whether you like to admit it or not the fact remains that someone being in a position of authority over someone else will markedly change the dynamic of bullying.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ah here... I like wolf whistles, I like bawdy compliments. If I were grabbed in a pub (and have been, many times) I'd give out to them but then forget it instantly. I certainly wouldn't tell others to get over it if it upsets them though.
However, if a man (or woman) at work who was my manager kept saying suggestive things in the workplace to me, and then went to the lengths of making unwanted physical contact with me... over and over... I would be very upset and would dread coming in to work. That view would not be in the least bit shaped by feminism, it would be just how I felt.

Yes of course .. but according to the article it was a couple of comments and one case of physical touching. Hardly a case where he is persecuting the lady everyday.

Playboy wrote: »

I'm not really interested in what you believe but rather the facts of the case. Not disputing that he is not of good character but I still think its OTT that we are talking about this as a sexual assault. Sounds like a clear case of harassment to me.

The only reason I'm arguing the point is not because I think he should be excused but only because I think broad definitions of 'sexual assault' and 'domestic violence' do more harm than good because they demean how seriously serious cases are dealt with and perceived.

Actually the point is to make people take more seriously those things which in years past would have been minimised and not taken seriously. Groping a woman in a public place is sexual assault, but many people still think it's "flirting" or "just a bit of fun". Similarly walking up to a woman you don't know and slapping her in the face is assault, but when a man did it to how wife that was until relatively recently passed off as no big deal. There are still people who will claim that, if they grabbed a woman in a nightclub and stuck their hand up her skirt, they were just having sone harmless fun and that if she gets upset it's because she is oversensitive. Making it illegal means the person can be punished even if e still claims to believe he did nothing wrong.
Assault does not have to mean causing lasting physical injury or tissue damage. I think a lot of people hear "assault" and think "serious physical harm" and this causes them to think "that's not assault, it didn't hurt (physically)". But assault has lasting psychological effects which the law is endeavouring to treat as an affront to the person.
Take the guard in this case for example, ths was not the first time he did something like this, and he was not only a grown man but also sober and in a work setting. He must have known what he did was probably going to upset the beangard, but he did it anyway and hid behind "Ah sure it was a joke". I find it hard to believe that he was never told his behaviour was out of line or asked to stop, but because what he did is illegal, te courts could step in and make him stop.

Playboy wrote: »

Completely OTT... there is nothing in that article that makes me think she was made to feel powerless. She wasn't kidnapped and tied up.. he gyrated against her for a couple of seconds. Sexual harassment and bullying it is but I would expect most women and especially a female garda to be able to deal with a situation like this one in a better way than running off to the bathroom to cry because he made her feel dirty.

There are plenty of avenues for a Garda to go to to complain of any type of harassment. As I said before this isnt a case of a woman who is employed in a small business with no HR function being persecuted by her boss and being able to do nothing about it because she fears the loss of her job. Are you seriously telling me she couldnt complain to anyone bar her direct line manager?

I don't think it's fair to complain about how the victim handled this, and she herself testified that she was extremey upset. In a policing situation she would be able to use physical force in self-defence, and other gardai would step in if they were around. In this case other gardai were present but did nothing. It is not unreasonable to assume she felt powerless because that is how people usually feel in that situation.
Even if she did complain to IA or HR or whatever, that doesn't mean she didn't have a right to prosecute this guy. Going to HR does not negate a persons right not to be assaulted, nor their right to press charges against the assailant in a court.