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Is it seen as acceptable for women to hit men?

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    #62
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Esoteric_ wrote: »
    If a man hits me, I'd walk away, unless I physically could not get away from him, in which case I'd use my years of martial arts training and floor him.

    If a woman hits a man, I believe the man should also walk away. However, if the man physically cannot get away, I'd fully expect him to hit her back in self defence.

    Violence as a retaliation to violence should always be the very last resort, the thing you do when you physically cannot get away from the perpetrator, for both men and women.

    I can't see why so many people have a problem with understanding this.


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    #63
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Person A is bigger and stronger than Person B.
    If Person B hits Person A then that is a lesser crime than vice versa as Person A should have the strength/ability to restrain B without the need for violence.
    Neither is acceptable but there are degrees of wrong here that should be recognised.


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    #64
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Person A is bigger and stronger than Person B.
    If Person B hits Person A then that is a lesser crime than vice versa as Person A should have the strength/ability to restrain B without the need for violence.
    Neither is acceptable but there are degrees of wrong here that should be recognised.

    How exactly is a court to judge? Should they see how much either could bench press?


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    #65
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Esoteric_ wrote: »
    If a man hits me, I'd walk away, unless I physically could not get away from him, in which case I'd use my years of martial arts training and floor him.

    If a woman hits a man, I believe the man should also walk away. However, if the man physically cannot get away, I'd fully expect him to hit her back in self defence.

    Violence as a retaliation to violence should always be the very last resort, the thing you do when you physically cannot get away from the perpetrator, for both men and women.

    I'm looking at it from the point of view in relation to a woman hitting a man, i mean if that happens how is a women going to be able to hold a man back and keep him enclosed in an area he cannot walk away from ? the man can move and leave easily.

    A woman held back by a man i can understand and any man that even tries to block a woman from moving from an area is a scumbag and a little bitch the way i see it.

    Maybe i try to see things in a more positive way in relation to both scenarios but i have witnessed my own mother many a year ago held by my father and he would not let her out of his grip and smashed her head into upstairs bannisters blood everywhere but the way i see it, if i ever saw a man manhandling a lady in such a way as she cannot get away then i'd have to intervene.

    I've seen it first hand, the man of the house looking for his dinner and it's not cooked or it's cold and then he smashes the plate over his own wifes head. Quite braindead of a thing to do to your loved one but it happens and it's obviously happening today with other families unfortunately.

    I suppose i could be called biased against the man but what i have seen in my growing life would shock the hardened man. I will always have respect for a woman no matter what, until she starts attacking me, but then i would just pack up and leave to start over again.


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    #66
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    How exactly is a court to judge? Should they see how much either could bench press?

    A court will judge whatever way they see fit. We are talking about rights and wrongs here.


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    #67
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    I can't see why so many people have a problem with understanding this.

    Because some people have yet to understand that the opposite séx, whichever one you are, are just people. Not a different species, just people who happen to have different genitalia. Hitting people is never acceptable unless you are left with no other choice, i.e. cornered with no other means of escape or being held against your will. Regardless of whether you have a vagina or a penis.


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    #68
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    A court will judge whatever way they see fit. We are talking about rights and wrongs here.

    You used the words "lesser crime" so I actually thought you meant crime.

    Anyway I disagree completely. A small person can figure out how to hurt a bigger person. They can use weapons. Even if they don't they can use words. Even if they don't, no one should have to walk this world in fear of physical abuse- be they huge or not. That's the end result of saying "Ah sure fellas are huge, it's only a wimmin". Ask Amen.


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    #69
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Also to point out, it's ridiculously sexist against women to say they can't hurt a man.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that's what you meant Pawwed Rig, just that some people have that attitude. Including women.


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    #70
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    You used the words "lesser crime" so I actually thought you meant crime.
    Crime as in assault but I would imagine most often they would never see the inside of a court.
    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    A small person can figure out how to hurt a bigger person. They can use weapons. Even if they don't they can use words. Even if they don't, no one should have to walk this world in fear of physical abuse- be they huge or not. That's the end result of saying "Ah sure fellas are huge, it's only a wimmin". Ask Amen.
    Not arguing with any of that but a stronger person has more chance to prevent injury when being assaulted by a weaker person than vice versa all things being equal.
    The title of the thread is 'Is it acceptable for women to hit men' not 'Is it acceptable for women to assault men using weapons'. I would assume not many people would argue that point.*

    *other than Sharon Osbourne obviously


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    #71
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Crime as in assault but I would imagine most often they would never see the inside of a court.


    Not arguing with any of that but a stronger person has more chance to prevent injury when being assaulted by a weaker person than vice versa all things being equal.
    The title of the thread is 'Is it acceptable for women to hit men' not 'Is it acceptable for women to assault men using weapons'. I would assume not many people would argue that point.*

    *other than Sharon Osbourne obviously

    My point that simply going "ah sure they're only women it's ok for them to hit men" IS a problem. It shouldn't be acceptable. The attitude is hugely degrading for men who are in an abusive relationship with a woman. In such a relationship, objects then come into it. I mightn't have made that clear enough :)


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    #72
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Equally it is not 'Is it acceptable for women to assault bigger men'.


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    #73
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    I just cannot understand why a woman would attack a man and why a man would attack a woman especially if they are in a relationship as the whole point of this is because you love/like each other, i just don't get it at all.

    Well maybe of which i hate to say, some people are just so uneducated and braindead or probably just insane in the brain from watching that eastenders freak stuff that their brain is so fried that they will just start a problem with a cockroach ? i don't know.

    I think i'll just leave it to the conclusion in my mind that it is only skangers i.e women that look like men or want to be men and act like men that are the problem and Men that are just greedy fvckers with no respect for anyone that causes the main problem. Maybe i'm a thick dope but i just don't understand why a man would hit a woman or vice versa.


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    #74
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    zenno wrote: »
    I'm looking at it from the point of view in relation to a woman hitting a man, i mean if that happens how is a women going to be able to hold a man back and keep him enclosed in an area he cannot walk away from ? the man can move and leave easily.

    That's simply not true. It's that kind of idea that Amen are trying to abolish. Women can just as easily hurt and harm men, as men can hurt women.

    Genetically, men are physically stronger in general than women, but I also know plenty of women who could easily 'trap' a man in a corner or kick his head in, if they so chose. As an example - I'm trained in some martial arts, currently learning boxing. I also do huge amounts of weights. I might look like a 5'1, feminine lady, but I could easily hurt the majority of 'normal,' men.

    It's just as easy for women to trap men. What helps them is the stigma attached to a man hitting a woman. If I am backed into a corner by a man, I'll push him away. If a man pushes a woman who is being aggressive away, there's every likelihood she'll scream so that people can see, and the man will get it in the neck. Because of that, men are just as easily 'stuck' with an aggressive woman, as a woman is with an aggressive man.


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes. If a woman is being groped, that man deserves a whack. What you guys don't take into account is what groping can lead to. Perverts don't stop because you ask them to. Women have a right to defend themselves.
    That's not to say that men being groped can't get physical. By all means, if a girl is invading your space, molesting you, shove her off. Bear in mind that men are stronger than women and a shove will usually do the trick. Women aren't strong enough to push a man properly, so a quick smack is the only thing that will get your message across.

    Of course, an unprovoked punch is always wrong, no matter who the recipient is. A man should not have to put up with that sort of thing. I remember a friend of mine had a crazy girlfriend that would box him in the face every time he did something she didn't like. He just took it because he had been raised never to lift a hand to a woman. Eventually he left her, but it was awful that he had to simply take her abuse.


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    #76
    Tigger99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭Tigger99


    the_syco wrote: »
    Actually, I believe it's called Positive Discrimination.

    Positive discrimination is completely different, it is a situation where a person is given a position, promotion based on their sex, race etc to increase the number of them (women, blacks etc) in that situation.

    As a woman I hate hate hate positive discrimination, not least because people should get promoted On their merits and not their sex etc. Over and over again I've seen jealous men assume that extremely well qualified women get promotions because of positive discrimination, when in fact they can simply do the job better.

    Sorry, Off topic. I think it's just as bad for a womam to hit a man as the other way round.
    miamee wrote: »
    Because some people have yet to understand that the opposite séx, whichever one you are, are just people. Not a different species, just people who happen to have different genitalia. Hitting people is never acceptable unless you are left with no other choice, i.e. cornered with no other means of escape or being held against your will. Regardless of whether you have a vagina or a penis.

    Huge plus one to this. I would not lift my finger to someone else unless I felt in physical danger.


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    #77
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Saw a woman hitting a man in a club and pointed it out to a bouncer. His response was if he had an issue with it he is physically capable of stopping it. I don't want to get involved in their foreplay.

    A man hitting a woman would receive a different response.

    Personally people shouldn't hit each other, gender has no bearing on it. However I'd see a big fit man hitting a small petite woman as similar to the same woman attacking the same man with a baseball bat.

    Not certain that I'm right to have that view but I'd see strength differentials are the same as using a weapon. Would have the same view about a big fit man hitting a small skinny man.

    Hard to quantify but understandable.


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    #78
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes. If a woman is being groped, that man deserves a whack. What you guys don't take into account is what groping can lead to. Perverts don't stop because you ask them to. Women have a right to defend themselves.
    That's not to say that men being groped can't get physical. By all means, if a girl is invading your space, molesting you, shove her off. Bear in mind that men are stronger than women and a shove will usually do the trick. Women aren't strong enough to push a man properly, so a quick smack is the only thing that will get your message across.

    Are you for real? Of course a woman can shove a guy. My friend goes out with a girl who is well under 5 feet and she's well able to shove him and he's 6 feet 2. If you shove a guy and he doesn't leave you alone, then go to the bouncers.

    There is no excuse for slapping or punching anybody. It's archaic and should be an outdated mindset.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What if the guy refuses to let go? What if the people around you aren't paying attention or just think it's 'a bit of a laugh'?
    The fact of the matter is there are still cavemen out there that think women are their property and don't care what a girl says or does if they grab them. I've had guys grab me in clubs and not let me go when I tried to push them off. They got a punch for that and they deserved it.

    You're also not taking into account women that can't speak up easily. I remember a friend of mine got grabbed in a club. She's a fellow Aspie and she went nonverbal. The guy took that as consent and started feeling her up. Myself and another friend had to rescue her.


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    #80
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What if the guy refuses to let go? What if the people around you aren't paying attention or just think it's 'a bit of a laugh'?
    The fact of the matter is there are still cavemen out there that think women are their property and don't care what a girl says or does if they grab them. I've had guys grab me in clubs and not let me go when I tried to push them off. They got a punch for that and they deserved it.

    You're also not taking into account women that can't speak up easily. I remember a friend of mine got grabbed in a club. She's a fellow Aspie and she went nonverbal. The guy took that as consent and started feeling her up. Myself and another friend had to rescue her.

    If you can't physically get away so you try pushing him away and that still doesn't work then you're into having to use self-defence, absolutely.


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    #81
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Physical violence is not acceptable whether it is female to male, male to female, male to male or female to female.


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    #82
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What if the guy refuses to let go? What if the people around you aren't paying attention or just think it's 'a bit of a laugh'?
    Are you seriously suggesting that women only physically assault men in self defence? If so, you're either being actively dishonest or very naieve.

    Women will use physical violence against men for numerous reasons other than self defence; the man has insulted them, refused their advances or just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Consider the following example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKbM0KOPrSQ


    Now tell me, if this is self defence? Let us know how you believe this justified.

    Otherwise, please stop trying to justify all female on male violence as some sort of self defence and just accept that the problem goes far beyond that.


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    #83
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭YumCha


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Are you seriously suggesting that women only physically assault men in self defence? If so, you're either being actively dishonest or very naieve.

    Women will use physical violence against men for numerous reasons other than self defence; the man has insulted them, refused their advances or just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Consider the following example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKbM0KOPrSQ


    Now tell me, if this is self defence? Let us know how you believe this justified.

    Otherwise, please stop trying to justify all female on male violence as some sort of self defence and just accept that the problem goes far beyond that.

    If I'm reading kyedhen's posts correctly, the context was very specifically where a female (or male) was being groped... am still not sure how you got to "all female on male violence as some sort of self defence" given that she also said she thought it would be okay for men to retaliate physically as well.


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    #84
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    YumCha wrote: »
    If I'm reading kyedhen's posts correctly, the context was very specifically where a female (or male) was being groped... am still not sure how you got to "all female on male violence as some sort of self defence" given that she also said she thought it would be okay for men to retaliate physically as well.
    Perhaps she should explain to us what constitutes a 'provoked' act then. So far she's only spoken of one scenario and effectively ignored all others, giving at best lip service to how violence is unacceptable in some as yet undefined 'unprovoked' ones.

    Even where groped, neither a man nor woman should resort to violence as an initial response - justifying this in genera by saying that some men ignore requests to desist or citing people with Aspergers is ridiculous to say the least.


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    #85
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #86
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Some crazy comments here.

    The sensible thing is that we should all refrain from physical violence unless there is no alternative, regardless of gender.

    I really don't think that the default response to feeling threatened is to start punching. A person might mis-read the situation and the threatening situation might have been innocent (someone stumbling or slipping in a pub and knocking into you). Another thing is that once a fight starts anything could happen. The other person for instance could be carrying a knife and then it might not matter if you taller/bigger or trained in some martial art form.

    Also the whole "women are the weaker sex" argument is an extremely lazy stereotype. I'm sure there are plenty of women out there more than capable of killing me in a street fight. Give someone the right training or a weapon and the odds can change drastically in their favour.


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    #87
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    I have two stories about being hit by a woman.

    First, I was out with friends, and this woman came over and started chatting me up. I politely declined her advances by telling her I was married. This did nothing to deter her and she kept trying. In the end I told her straight up that I wasn't interested and to go away. So she slapped me hard across the face. A bouncer was no more than 10 feet away and laughed at it.

    The second was in my former job as a Garda, I was breaking up a fight, and someone jumped on my back and put a forearm around my throat. I slammed the person up against a van that was behind me. It's only when she let go that I found out it was a woman.

    I got no less than 12 complaints made against me for that, one by the woman and another 11 from bystanders who saw her jump on my back and try to choke me. If it wasn't for CCTV from a nearby pub that showed her attack me, I'd have been screwed.


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    #88
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    source wrote: »
    The second was in my former job as a Garda, I was breaking up a fight, and someone jumped on my back and put a forearm around my throat. I slammed the person up against a van that was behind me. It's only when she let go that I found out it was a woman.

    I got no less than 12 complaints made against me for that, one by the woman and another 11 from bystanders who saw her jump on my back and try to choke me. If it wasn't for CCTV from a nearby pub that showed her attack me, I'd have been screwed.

    That was a particularly sh*tty situation to be in.

    As I said in my last post we shouldn't get physical unless we have no other choice. Having an unknown assailant jump on your back and grab your throat puts you in a very weak and dangerous position so you were of course perfectly right to get physical. For all you know the person could have been attempting to kill you.

    So what the hell did she expect you to do? It's mind boggling that people expected you NOT to get physical in that situation.

    Was she charged with assaulting a Garda or anything similar? I hope she was.


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    #89
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    Emily Salty Income wrote: »
    That was a particularly sh*tty situation to be in.

    As I said in my last post we shouldn't get physical unless we have no other choice. Having an unknown assailant jump on your back and grab your throat puts you in a very weak and dangerous position so you were of course perfectly right to get physical. For all you know the person could have been attempting to kill you.

    So what the hell did she expect you to do? It's mind boggling that people expected you NOT to get physical in that situation.

    Was she charged with assaulting a Garda or anything similar? I hope she was.

    Yeah right, she was charged with obstructing a member in the course of their duty. She got a small fine.


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    #90
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    source wrote: »
    Yeah right, she was charged with obstructing a member in the course of their duty. She got a small fine.

    Bit of a joke that then, must have been a bitter pill to swallow for you after her nearly getting you into very serious trouble.


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    #91
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    Emily Salty Income wrote: »
    Bit of a joke that then, must have been a bitter pill to swallow for you after her nearly getting you into very serious trouble.

    Not really, I know how the system works, I was actually expecting her to get probation or a donation to the court poor box, as she had no previous. So she actually got more than I expected, less than it should have been. But more than I expected.


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