Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

DinoRex wrote: »

Xbox One just gets more and more deluded:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

Do they think the same high street shops that they're going to screw over on second hand sales are also going to push the Xbox One on customers?

Are they going to have to bully charity shops into being on the 'Azure' cloud?

Having said that dino the shops have being doing s number on the publishers for years imho, pushing the second hand game to custmers at a tiny discount for years, keeping all the markup preventing new sale revenue for the publishers and offering poor value to customers.
My understanding is that there have been numerous attempts to come to a different arrangement overvthe past few years that all fell flat.

I can imagine pirating the one will become an even bigger trend then it was with the 360

PS4 seems to have an advantage with it's 8GB of GDDR5 ram. Xbox One is just DDR3.

The Digital Foundry report on the consoles is an interesting read.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

We've all heard the sob stories from publishers over the years but these publishers really aren't strapped for cash and the ones that go out of business are due to reasons other than second hand sales. The fact of the matter is that there's laws in place that deny a copyright holder the ability to make money from second hand sales and these are in place for a very good reason. MS are just exploiting a loophole due to the way copyright works in with software requiring licenses.

I dont like the idea as it stands now either, but I'm not talking about sob stories I have friends who develop games for a living that are working huge hours now compared to 10 years I'm not just talking recession factors this is over and above the base additional hardship everyone feels.
The working hours for people in the front end of games is increasing all the time. I understand that some publishers are cleaning up but should the games shops make all the money for resales, I'll offer an example at the other end of the scale,

you buy a game for 50 euro, the publishers make 15 euro if they are lucky the developers make 2 or 3 euro and the rest is tax/shop overheads and profit.

kid plays the game for a week beings it back and is offered say 15 euro for it. The shop bangs 46 euro on the game and pops it back on the counter.

Someone comes in to buy the game, they bring a new copy to the counter and the staff say, "that's available second hand for 4 euro less" the guys buys the second hand copy and is told to bring it back for an exchange when he is finished with it.

Its the developers and smaller design shops I'm concerned rather than the big publishing houses. the poor sods making the games are working huge hours and the shops and publishers take it all.

I'm not sticking up for publishers I'm just saying the some shop chains have taken a stance to actively adopt a policy to push sales of second hand games a head of new games to maximize their revenue, it provides very little additional value for the end customer, that is their right I guess, but failure to look ahead down the road and reach any sort of compromise has left bad blood between the retailers and publishers. I think there is some Karma here, I I've seen plenty of kids being ripped off on trade ins, policies like trade in three game and get this game for 5 euro etc all to get the second hand stock levels up.

the publishers and the retailers both exploit the end users IMHO.

35 euro to register a second hand game on your console is a joke .
I cant see myself getting this console as it stands, but I most likely will like most of us here. Sony will do the same, allegedly I've heard that it the route they are going down now too.

Also having said all that since halflife 2 I've been buying most of my PC games on platforms like Steam. Maybe some free games like APB will be become available on these platforms. I have a feeling that this cold all level out and it wont be as bad as it appears now.

You could have fan efforts that spring up like the reverse engineered PSO server that I play on sometimes with my Dreamcast but yeah, it's a sorry situation.

I'd love to be able to play something like Planet Ring again all these years later, that was a fun little game.

EnterNow wrote: »

When the time comes to switch off online marketplace support for the 360 & PS3, pay very close attention. Pay even closer attention to those users who have huge libraries of digital content later on when their console breaks, as the reality of the situation dawns on them & their library & purchases are lost forever.

I wonder the same myself at times, then again given the limited lifespan of current gen consoles will this be an issue. I've been three 360s so far and I find it hard to believe that todays games will be as collectible as the older stuff given there may not be any machines to play them on it years to come.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Game developers working long hours is not something new. It's been like that since videogame development started and while it's a ****ty practice it's been like that forever and anyone getting into the industry should understand what they are getting themselves in for. Also the blame for it should not be placed on people buying second hand games. It should be placed on management and publishers putting that pressure on developers as well as poor project management.

I didn't say it was new, it has not been like this since the dawn of games development, it has gotten worse for many people.
I can't put my hand on the articles that I've read on this about the added stress the increased percentage of crunch time added for developers, I'm hoping as usual that this is an informal chat. The licensing of these games has changed too from what I hear and developers don't really get the deals or dont have a dog in the fight if the sales are good, they seem to be hired in subcontractors now. The days of knocking out a game in time for the next movie release are gone, there are KPIs in place that a certain meta score must be achieved and the publishers seem to do well from it.

My point is not sob story for publishers or to blame the second hand market, more for the guys making the games and for people buying second hand games yes they are buying them I'm not saying its their fault or laying any blame at their feet, its not a buy it new and save the developers pitch, its more of a I don't feel sorry for the retailers as they have exploited customers too IMHO and have no right to get all high and mighty about the big bad publisher at the end of the day all they the shops do is sell and provide a market for the games.

I dont seriously think that if a new game will be 35 Euro to register with MS that it will still be 35 Euro in 2 years, the market will have to drive that, they will have to drop the prices, I think that you will still get games at reduced costs but you will pay someone else for it. I understand fully that it is a bigger argument than this and that its your game you should be able to sell it etc.

I'm all for the customer getting the best deal, and I don't think that the retailers were offering that either. If I want to sell a game I do it on adverts, if I'm not bothered I wont trade it in, I'll give it away first.

I dunno why they didn't just go flat-out digital. Yeah, it's a significantly smaller base for a new console, with the online-only jazz, and you're losing access to this stuff anyways, so why not just remove the 2nd hand market as a thing altogether?

You'd have the savings of no physical releases to offset whatever you'd hope to scalp off the used-market. I mean, it beats trying to have it both ways and alienating absolutely everyone.

As it stands, it's a confusing mess of a thing, that's so convoluted that it's hard to envision it taking off as the premier living-room experience.