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Jonny Sexton leaving Leinster *mod warning post 1*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    A 2 year contract for 11/12 and 12/13. What he could have earned in France if he left Ireland in 06/07 shouldn't come into it.

    ROG is very highly rated in France (look at what Wilko is earning). And of course it would have come into it - if the IRFU didn't show loyalty to O'Gara having turned down big offers from France when he was at his best, other up and coming players were not going to stick around.
    In fairness ROG wasn't going to leave Ireland in 11/12 or 12/13. The loss of the tax break would have been too big a hit. From another point of view during that contract ROG has started a grand total of five games. Two RWC warmups, and Russia, Italy Wales in the RWC.

    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.
    Thats not deserving for a 350K a year contract.

    I'd saying sitting on a bench is harder than playing. The IRFU would also have control of his image rights and would mean loss of other income to him.



    signed Nov 2010 for 11/12 and 12/13[/QUOTE]


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    I'd saying sitting on a bench is harder than playing. The IRFU would also have control of his image rights and would mean loss of other income to him.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    I think there was also a question of timing too. The IRFU have a period where they negotiate all International contracts and Sexton wanted to open negotiation earlier than that. Whether he had made contact with Racing at that point or not no one knows.

    Everyone would have been playing everyone off against each other at one point. It’s all one big game. Racing played hardball with Sexton too I reckon. The salary figures rumoured at the start were a lot more than what is being reported now.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Esteban Scary Sucker


    actually, no


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    You seem to have a good hard on for the IRFU top brass, and like to name drop, just like on MF, but how is matching salary with Heaslip for the best FH in Europe 'unsustainable'?

    Tom Grace is well known for his work as a Liquidator. I'd respect that he would know a bit about how companies go bust.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    jm08 wrote: »
    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.

    There are ways around that. Strings could return and play a season with Shannon as player/coach and then retire to be eligible for example.

    *The new rules on clubs paying players will put a stop to that now I think about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Winters wrote: »
    I think there was also a question of timing too. The IRFU have a period where they negotiate all International contracts and Sexton wanted to open negotiation earlier than that. Whether he had made contact with Racing at that point or not no one knows.

    Everyone would have been playing everyone off against each other at one point. It’s all one big game. Racing played hardball with Sexton too I reckon. The salary figures rumoured at the start were a lot more than what is being reported now.

    I'd suspect that the IRFU do not like his agent (Fintan Drury) who has used the media a bit when negotiating contracts. Drury also represents Luke Fitz who had difficulties as well.

    Heaslip moved to Brian O'Driscoll's outfit I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Its why David Humphreys retired from international rugby - he didn't want to be away for long periods of time from his young family just warming the bench!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    Its why David Humphreys retired from international rugby - he didn't want to be away for long periods of time from his young family just warming the bench!

    I could think of a lot harder things to be doing that sitting on the bench and getting paid 350k to do it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jm08 wrote: »
    ROG is very highly rated in France (look at what Wilko is earning). And of course it would have come into it - if the IRFU didn't show loyalty to O'Gara having turned down big offers from France when he was at his best, other up and coming players were not going to stick around.
    What about showing loyalty to Sexton, he turned down offers from France two years ago as well.
    jm08 wrote: »
    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.
    Leaving as a coach he will have already received his tax break. 40% of the tax in the 10 highest paid years of his career isn't going to be chump change. Would guestimate 300K.

    As to Stringer maybe he is ok financially and doesn't mind missing out or maybe he hopes to come back and play one more year with an Irish province.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I could think of a lot harder things to be doing that sitting on the bench and getting paid 350k to do it.

    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.

    talk about grasping for straws when your argument is failing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    What about showing loyalty to Sexton, he turned down offers from France two years ago as well.

    He has turned down contract offers once - ROG has been doing it for years.

    Leaving as a coach he will have already received his tax break. 40% of the tax in the 10 highest paid years of his career isn't going to be chump change. Would guestimate 300K.

    That point was to do with him being prepared to move away from Ireland.
    As to Stringer maybe he is ok financially and doesn't mind missing out or maybe he hopes to come back and play one more year with an Irish province.

    So the tax back might not be the be-all and end-all as to why players move away/don't move.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jm08 wrote: »
    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.

    To be honest I've no sympathy with ROG over that. Surely its between himself and his wife.

    Maybe he should have handed in his central contract and retired after the RWC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    These kind of posts don't exactly add to the discussion... Try and improve the quality of your posts, and drop the provincial BS while you're at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Ronan O'Gara was offered 350,000 in 2010 because they were scared they would have to start Paddy Wallace.

    Have to remember that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    To be honest I've no sympathy with ROG over that. Surely its between himself and his wife.

    Maybe he should have handed in his central contract and retired after the RWC.

    I doubt if he is looking for sympathy. It is a consideration though. I remember reading that one of the reasons Howlett moved to the NH was because he hated being away from home so much playing Super Rugby. Lots of ex-Super Rugby players say its great not to spend your life living out of a suitcase.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Folks ROG isn't up for discussion here. Fine, if you want to use him as an example, but don't let the topic trail off as we all know where it leads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Ronan O'Gara was offered 350,000 in 2010 because they were scared they would have to start Paddy Wallace.

    Have to remember that one.

    I didn't say that.

    From when Humphreys retired, Paddy Wallace got a central contract to basically sit on the bench.

    From 2010, ROG got a contract to basically sit on the bench. Now that some back up is emerging from Jackson & Madigan, ROG isn't getting a central contract and has been offered a Munster one.

    The IRFU don't need him anymore to sit on the bench.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    I didn't say that.

    From when Humphreys retired, Paddy Wallace got a central contract to basically sit on the bench.

    From 2010, ROG got a contract to basically sit on the bench. Now that some back up is emerging from Jackson & Madigan, ROG isn't getting a central contract and has been offered a Munster one.

    The IRFU don't need him anymore to sit on the bench.

    It's nonsense!

    So if ROG hadn't been given 350k he would have magically disappeared and Ireland would have to stop selecting him and go with Wallace instead? What a silly concept.

    The IRFU messed up here. They tried to lowball Sexton (no doubt Drury dragged the discussions down to his usual level) and he walked away. And the fact they expected him to play for less than they payed O'Gara to sit on the bench for 2 years is madness.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    It's nonsense!

    So if ROG hadn't been given 350k he would have magically disappeared and Ireland would have to stop selecting him and go with Wallace instead? What a silly concept.

    Humphreys did exactly that.
    The IRFU messed up here. They tried to lowball Sexton (no doubt Drury dragged the discussions down to his usual level) and he walked away. And the fact they expected him to play for less than they payed O'Gara to sit on the bench for 2 years is madness.

    Where did you get the figures for what Sexton or O'Gara are earning?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    ROG got a central contract in November 2010. It was announced the same day that Sexton was the starting 10 against NZ and nearly 2 weeks after he had started against SA. So if ROG is worth a 350k contract when he is coming towards the end of his career and the outgoing Irish OH then surely Sexton is worth 50k more when he is in his prime, the starting OH for club, country and the Lions as well as probably one of the best in his position in the world.

    Or maybe I'm missing something....

    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8294.php


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭vkid


    Where are people getting figures for the contracts...or is it all rumour, hearsay, waffle etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    It's as simple as this.

    Sexton goes to Racing; IRFU can still call on him for the national team and a big salary comes off the IRFU books.

    Do you think the IRFU give a f**k if Leinster remain competitive? They do not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    It's as simple as this.

    Sexton goes to Racing; IRFU can still call on him for the national team and a big salary comes off the IRFU books.

    Do you think the IRFU give a f**k if Leinster remain competitive? They do not.

    Are you sure? I think they do, and in this instance I think they made a massive mistake. The difference between Leinster being competitive and not means millions to the IRFU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    It's as simple as this.

    Sexton goes to Racing; IRFU can still call on him for the national team and a big salary comes off the IRFU books.

    Do you think the IRFU give a f**k if Leinster remain competitive? They do not.

    They need the provinces to remain competitive. The money the IRFU make from the provinces in European competitions is big and the provinces only get some of it. It all goes to the IRFU firstly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    vkid wrote: »
    Where are people getting figures for the contracts...or is it all rumour, hearsay, waffle etc

    Heaslip's figure is fairly well known, and has been published in the papers at the 400k mark (could be a variance of 50k either side). It would make him the most well paid centrally contracted player in Irish rugby.

    According to Sexton's godfather, he wanted equal pay with Heaslip, so that's where that figure is coming from. There is strong rumours in France on what Sexton is getting from RM as well, which is close to 1.2m over 2 years, so about 600k.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    .ak wrote: »
    Are you sure? I think they do, and in this instance I think they made a massive mistake. The difference between Leinster being competitive and not means millions to the IRFU.

    Meh, I'm probably being a bit unfair on them and I suppose we're all talking in very vague terms about what he might have been offered.

    But I think that the difference between what was offered and what was needed to make him stay was probably in the region of 100k per annum. A lot of money but a tiny fraction of what Leinster have brought in over the last few years through ERC success and repeated renting out of the Aviva, not to mention the fact that Jonny is one of the most marketable players we have.

    It's hard to see how it made any sense to let him go, other than that the IRFU a) saw it as a chance to get the wage bill down or b) didn't want to set a precedent.

    Either way, they got it wrong.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    Meh, I'm probably being a bit unfair on them and I suppose we're all talking in very vague terms about what he might have been offered.

    But I think that the difference between what was offered and what was needed to make him stay was probably in the region of 100k per annum. A lot of money but a tiny fraction of what Leinster have brought in over the last few years through ERC success and repeated renting out of the Aviva, not to mention the fact that Jonny is one of the most marketable players we have.

    It's hard to see how it made any sense to let him go, other than that the IRFU a) saw it as a chance to get the wage bill down or b) didn't want to set a precedent.

    Either way, they got it wrong.

    Or maybe the IRFU didn't want one province leapfrogging so far ahead of all the other provinces. Considering the difficulties that Sexton, Fitzgerald and Kearney had with their contracts, on top of being forced to let go the likes of Hines and threatening to let Nacewa go (remember that episode?) it just seems like the IRFU were of the opinion that Leinster were becoming too strong and it had become time to reign them in. The IRFU does best when all provinces are on a more or less level playing field (exception being Connacht although thats changing).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    It's as simple as this.

    Sexton goes to Racing; IRFU can still call on him for the national team and a big salary comes off the IRFU books.

    Do you think the IRFU give a f**k if Leinster remain competitive? They do not.

    Ah I don’t think it’s as blunt as that. I doubt IRFU Director of Rugby Eddie Wigglesworth has forgotten how he was Leinster CEO before his current role. The Union do know how to run a tight ship though and how to prioritise. Lest we forget which events fund the pro game in Ireland.


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