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Calls to remove illegal UVF flags in Belfast

135

Comments

  • #62
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    gallag wrote: »
    Again another thread about those loyalists and flags, 7 straight nights of riots in London derry and trying to burn protestants out of their homes, more bombs foiled by the "dissidents" and two cars stopped in London derry filled with Republican guns, ammo and bombs but lets not make a thread about any of that, loyalists celebrating the formation of a detachment that fought bravely in ww1 is the thing to be disgusted by.

    Don't forget to mention the military style march that the republicans had in Derry/Londonderry the night after Maggie Thatcher died, from which this violence spawned.

    The UVF flags are flying in loyalist areas. Once they are not flown in a nationalist area, they should be allowed to celebrate away.


  • #63
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    junder wrote: »
    Not what I asked. I asked is your history more important then mine, of which you Have answered yes. You may not like it but the creation of the old UVF is of seminal importance to loyalists / unionists its a defining moment in our history as is the subsequent 'blood sacrifice' made at the Somme by the same men who founded the original UVF, the same men that fought side by side with Redmond's IVF men at passchendaele while the men that no doubt you will be celebrating had they failed rebellion in Dublin. Ironic to think that is the British over reaction to the prisoners of the rising rather then the rising itself that secured the Irish republics independence. Where will the men of the IVF factor into your Easter rising celebrations where will thier commeration be.

    The 16th Irish and 36th Ulster divisions first fought together at Messines in June 1917 and they were both successful in attaining their objectives that day.
    I think the problem some have with the flags stems from the fact that the original UVF was considered an almost exclusively protestant organistion but I do believe that less than a score of catholics (some converts) were members.
    I believe that the men of the INV who died in the war are commemorated at the national day of commemoration in July every year.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Commemoration

    The Easter rising commemorations are a seperate event.


  • #64
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    junder wrote: »
    Just because a modern day group decided to name themselves after the old UVF in no way diminishes what the old UVF stood for. If that is not the case then your independence will be forever stained by the blood of innocents shed by the ira. As for celebrations, I have no doubt that in 1916 the entire island will be an orgy of republican symbolism
    The modern day uvf and the old uvf were two of a kind, in fact the old uvf were probably worse in that they threatened to turn their guns on the british army if the did not get their way,


  • #65
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    TOMASJ wrote: »
    The modern day uvf and the old uvf were two of a kind, in fact the old uvf were probably worse in that they threatened to turn their guns on the british army if the did not get their way,

    And what was the Irish civil war all about then? Irish republicans turning thier guns on the free state army


  • #66
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    junder wrote: »
    And what was the Irish civil war all about then? Irish republicans turning thier guns on the free state army
    Is this thread about the Irish civil war?
    or uvf thugs past and present,
    Start a new one on the Irish civil war junder


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  • #67
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    And what was the Irish civil war all about then? Irish republicans turning thier guns on the free state army
    Free state army turning their guns on republicans...

    Anyways,

    So here we have the UVF hanging up sectarian flags and we also have the UDA painting kerbstones and hanging Union Jacks they bought as they throw interface agreements out the window. This fine and dandy according to you?


  • #68
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    Free state army turning their guns on republicans...

    Anyways,

    So here we have the UVF hanging up sectarian flags and we also have the UDA painting kerbstones and hanging Union Jacks they bought as they throw interface agreements out the window. This fine and dandy according to you?

    So now your telling people what they can and can't do within thier own areas. So what in perticuler is sectarian about these commeration flags since I see NI reference to anything to do with the Roman Catholic faith, although ironically there is a picture of a gealic football player, guess you must be annoyed that the parade is not going anywhere near the short strand, so you could really work yourself up, Unfortuntly for you the parade will be sticking to unionist areas. By the way how do you know it's the uda behind painting kerb stones round where I live it's the locals residents that have fund raised and organized themselves to buy the flags and the paint nothing to do with any paramiltary group


  • #69
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    So now your telling people what they can and can't do within thier own areas. So what in perticuler is sectarian about these commeration flags since I see NI reference to anything to do with the Roman Catholic faith, although ironically there is a picture of a gealic football player, guess you must be annoyed that the parade is not going anywhere near the short strand, so you could really work yourself up, Unfortuntly for you the parade will be sticking to unionist areas. By the way how do you know it's the uda behind painting kerb stones round where I live it's the locals residents that have fund raised and organized themselves to buy the flags and the paint nothing to do with any paramiltary group
    Eh, I'm saying that there is no place for the UVF or the UDA in any place... wouldn't you agree?

    Paramilitary thugs took a break from drug dealing to put up these flags - don't try to deny it because we both know I'm telling the truth about the UDA and UVF. I don't know where exactly you live but its the UDA who are at the kerb painting and flag hoisting in Tiger Bay.

    They are sectarian because they are a flag for a sectarian group... the UVF.


  • #70
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    Eh, I'm saying that there is no place for the UVF or the UDA in any place... wouldn't you agree?

    Paramilitary thugs took a break from drug dealing to put up these flags - don't try to deny it because we both know I'm telling the truth about the UDA and UVF. I don't know where exactly you live but its the UDA who are at the kerb painting and flag hoisting in Tiger Bay.

    They are sectarian because they are a flag for a sectarian group... the UVF.

    Don't live in tigers bay so can't speak for that area although since you seem to have insider information, perhaps you take it to the police. In my area the union flags and kerb stones where painted and put up by the local community, with no paramiltary involvement, money was raised locally. Really can't be arsed to argue about the flag, it's just going to go around in circles, the flag represents the old UVF the pictures are of Carson, Craig and Crawford not of gusty spence, you don't see it that way, fair enough your entitled to your opinion as am I


  • #71
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    http://m.u.tv/news/Thousands-at-UVF-march-in-Belfast/909d2c98-38ca-412d-8ead-441f22096b99

    "Some local residents raised concerns. Police said the flags are not related to a proscribed organisation and offered to meet local community groups."


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  • #72
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    There's no doubt lots of loyalists will associate the flags with the modern UVF and enjoy them in that sense. Which is obviously despicable.

    However the original UVF did exist, were extremely important to the separation of Ulster/Northern Ireland from the rest of Ireland and the flags have Carson and Craig on them.

    If they're being flown in unionist areas leave them be.


  • #73
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    Don't live in tigers bay so can't speak for that area although since you seem to have insider information, perhaps you take it to the police. In my area the union flags and kerb stones where painted and put up by the local community, with no paramiltary involvement, money was raised locally. Really can't be arsed to argue about the flag, it's just going to go around in circles, the flag represents the old UVF the pictures are of Carson, Craig and Crawford not of gusty spence, you don't see it that way, fair enough your entitled to your opinion as am I
    I notice you've made no comment about the UVF having put up those flags.


    You sicken me really, a member of the security forces showing this type of ambivalence about loyalist gangs - don't think its gone unnoticed that you deleted your old profile and associated posts over on PULSE in an attempt to cover your tracks and plausibly deny saying the things you have on there.


  • #74
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    There's no doubt lots of loyalists will associate the flags with the modern UVF and enjoy them in that sense. Which is obviously despicable.

    However the original UVF did exist, were extremely important to the separation of Ulster/Northern Ireland from the rest of Ireland and the flags have Carson and Craig on them.

    If they're being flown in unionist areas leave them be.

    Considering the UVF put them up I'd say that's a given.


  • #75
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    I notice you've made no comment about the UVF having put up those flags.


    You sicken me really, a member of the security forces showing this type of ambivalence about loyalist gangs - don't think its gone unnoticed that you deleted your old profile and associated posts over on PULSE in an attempt to cover your tracks and plausibly deny saying the things you have on there.

    My deletion of my account on pulse has nothing to do with you or this site, I'm afraid your just not that important. The reason for deletion are my own and are quite frankly none of your buisness. As for the flags you seem to know about who put them up then I do, personnly if there has been some sort of illegal action taken i will leave it in the hands of the police


  • #76
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Some photos of the event


  • #77
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭gallag


    GRMA wrote: »
    I notice you've made no comment about the UVF having put up those flags.


    You sicken me really, a member of the security forces showing this type of ambivalence about loyalist gangs - don't think its gone unnoticed that you deleted your old profile and associated posts over on PULSE in an attempt to cover your tracks and plausibly deny saying the things you have on there.

    Is there any need for this attitude? Its a bit creepy dude. You do know there are hundreds of ira murals and thousands of flags in nationalist areas aswell, its not just the "prods" that do tribalism. These flags have been deemed legal, they are in a loyalist area and its been promised that they will be removed after the commemoration, what is your problem?


  • #78
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    gallag wrote: »
    ... Despite some jockeying for party advantage, a substantial proportion of the UVF enlisted to form the predominantly unionist and almost wholly Protestant 36th (Ulster) Division. ..."
    So you're point is that no new, old or any UVF ever fought in WWI; I think most of us knew that, but thanks for the confirmation.
    gallag wrote: »
    " ... Nationalists, themselves mostly Catholic, joined the other two of Lord Kitchener's 'New Army' divisions raised in Ireland: the 10th (Irish) and 16th (Irish) Divisions."
    You could also argue, given that Kitchener raised two "Irish" (non-Ulster but mostly Catholic) divisions that the Pope, the Catholic Church, the Christian Brothers, the Legion of Mary, the IRB etc also fought for Britain in WWI.

    Is there a flaw in my application of @gallag's logic?


  • #79
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    gallag wrote: »
    Is there any need for this attitude? Its a bit creepy dude. You do know there are hundreds of ira murals and thousands of flags in nationalist areas aswell, its not just the "prods" that do tribalism. These flags have been deemed legal, they are in a loyalist area and its been promised that they will be removed after the commemoration, what is your problem?

    You see no issue with the UVF and UDA operating openly and putting these flags up while the PSNI do nothing?


  • #80
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    junder wrote: »
    http://m.u.tv/news/Thousands-at-UVF-march-in-Belfast/909d2c98-38ca-412d-8ead-441f22096b99

    "Some local residents raised concerns. Police said the flags are not related to a proscribed organisation and offered to meet local community groups."

    Embarrassing that they couldn't even get the Union flag the right way up at Craigavon house.


  • #81
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    junder wrote: »
    Some photos of the event


    Thanks for the pics.It was reported on RTE by Tommy O'Gorman that the organisers requested that RTE and BBC NI not film the proceedings,also stated that no mainstream Unionist parties were represented except the PUP.


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  • #82
    Hannibal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    GRMA wrote: »
    You see no issue with the UVF and UDA operating openly and putting these flags up while the PSNI do nothing?
    It can be guaranteed if the IRA was to be commemorated with parades and celebration of its centenery in a couple of years then there would be uproar from the unionists in the north and their colleagues in the south (Fine Gael).

    The UVF and UDA have not decommissioned their arsenal of weapons and both remain active to this day and to have groups like this parading openly is a major blot on the people who attended and supported this march. The time and place for rhis has long ended in the north.


  • #83
    ONeill2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭ONeill2013


    I've seen a lot of UVF flags in July in loyalists towns such as Ballymena for the 12th July celebrations. Seems like such a family moment putting them up, I've seen men covered with tattoo's bring their children out to watch them put them up. All flags should be banned in N.Ireland


  • #84
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    It's about time the Nationalists cooled their jets and quit mouthing. Both sides are entitled to remember their history. The UVF just like the old IRA were once men of honour and principle.


  • #85
    Norwesterner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Norwesterner


    GRMA wrote: »
    You see no issue with the UVF and UDA operating openly and putting these flags up while the PSNI do nothing?
    The UVF and UDA leadership got a Garda escort to Islandbridge, where they shared a platform with FG and Labour and met the Queen.
    The Govt also finance the UDA's political wing (UPRG) with your taxes.
    Bertie Ahern paid for media training of UDA spokesmen.


    Meanwhile close to 100 people are arrested for attending a Republican funeral in Dublin a few months ago, (including family members of the murder victim)...
    and a Derry man was fined for listening to Wolfe Tones songs in his own car.
    This is the parity of esteem the GFA promised us.


  • #86
    Norwesterner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Norwesterner


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    It's about time the Nationalists cooled their jets and quit mouthing. Both sides are entitled to remember their history. The UVF just like the old IRA were once men of honour and principle.
    Do you think Marion Price was entitled to honour IRA dead?
    She's spending her third year in internment for attending an Easter rally.


  • #87
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    Do you think Marion Price was entitled to honour IRA dead?
    She's spending her third year in internment for attending an Easter rally.

    You're not giving her full story here though are you.


  • #88
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    kabakuyu wrote: »
    Thanks for the pics.It was reported on RTE by Tommy O'Gorman that the organisers requested that RTE and BBC NI not film the proceedings,also stated that no mainstream Unionist parties were represented except the PUP.

    That was only at the field where speeches where held


  • #89
    guttenberg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭guttenberg


    junder wrote: »
    That was only at the field where speeches where held

    What's the logic for not wanting them to record speeches?


  • #90
    johnnydeep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭johnnydeep


    guttenberg wrote: »
    What's the logic for not wanting them to record speeches?
    incitement to violence. sectarianism showing the world what knuckle dragging halfwits they are


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  • #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    More issues with flags :rolleyes:


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