Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

reprazant · 10-04-2013 10:55AM

This thread is a perfect example of the modern need to be offended over nothing.

Claiming fraud and the illegality of it. Talk of hysteria.

Ring into liveline - this would be right up his alley.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 10:57AM

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

baloney.

it won't affect her passport unless she filled the details out herself incorrectly. There are plenty of people, thousands, tens of thousands who went through school in Ireland having their names changed to Irish - it didn't affect anyone once they left.

Why on earth is she in A Gaelscoil if you have a problem with them dialecting in Irish. Self made problem if you ask me.

Lord TSC · 10-04-2013 10:57AM

MadsL wrote: »

I was being somewhat facitious about fraud. However, please address why a school should have the power to change a name without consent?

When you enrolled your kid in an Irish-immersion school, you understood that the majority of the education would involve the translation of everything possible into Irish. If you do not consent to that, as a parent, it's your responsibility to go into the school and let them know that, and ask for her to be called by the name you and she want it. Because otherwise, the Irish-based school presumes you want the full Irish-based education that they deliever.

On a related note, last year I spent a few months in a school teaching TEFL to foreign nationals. Believe it or not, a good 75% of the students I was dealing with were using English versions of their names. They'd write their own name on books, copies and that. But on the roll, and on exams they handed up, it was the English version. Furthermore, there were a few who simply adopted easy to produce English names (Such as "Joe" or "Paddy") rather than use their actual name.

So, again I ask you, if it's such a big issue for your child to the extent you worry about how it will fracture her identity and self-worth and what have you, GET IN CONTACT WITH THE SCHOOL! Don't sit online moaning about it. Get into the school and let them know this is a serious issue. Because at the moment, if all thats happening is your kid is complaining in class, it will likely get brushed aside in the same vein as comments such as "I don't want to do homework," "I don't like Maths", etc. The only way the school will accept it's a serious issue for the student is if the parents get in and let it be known to them.

Meanwhile, accept that if you don't do that, then the teachers are still going to be under orders, so to speak, to use Irish names for as many students as possible, and cannot go against those rules just because a student asks them to, no more than they can choose not to give homework or teach the curriculum they have been assigned.

mitosis · 10-04-2013 11:01AM

MadsL wrote: »

Utter bollox. Her name is what is recorded on her birth cert, it doesn't need "correcting". Are you seriously suggesting all children need a "correct" Irish name as well???

Or have named her Emma. FFS!!
Buck the system? What system?? There is no system about names, just some asshat tradition. I'm not planning revolution here - just asking for all of the teachers not just some to exercise a tiny tiny courtesy, for which she has asked politely.

No, I am clearly not. Neither is my daughter. Some of her teachers on the other hand are simply being rude to her and she dislikes it. Wouldn't call it a mountain nor a molehill. At the moment it is a minor annoyance. But to some posters here she doesn't deserve a education through Irish for criticising it in a small way.

Christ, I had no idea starting a thread on boards could compromise an education. Some responders seem to have a compromised education however and have lost the ability to read.

Agreeing with my daughters irritation is 'compromising her education'. Wow.

Noted. Now read back and actually comprehend my opinion and (in)action so far.

So, in your OP you asked "What does AH think?" Why ask if you don't want to be answered? Or are you only interested in replies that support your opinion?

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:02AM

reprazant wrote: »

This thread is a perfect example of the modern need to be offended over nothing.

Claiming fraud and the illegality of it. Talk of hysteria.

Ring into liveline - this would be right up his alley.

Yeah, all it needs now is for someone to be offended about people getting offended...oh hi!

Let me try once more to spell out (for the 100th fckng time) this is a thread about someone getting irritated. It may disappoint your sense of how outraged you are by my outrage which is in the a bit ticked off kinda scale, but lets talk about it anyway.

Sorry about that. There's probably a thread about a safe somewhere if you have a good root about.

VinLieger · 10-04-2013 11:02AM

mitosis wrote: »

OP, you need to reign in a little. Irish is given recognition by the Constitution as the national and first official language of the Republic of Ireland (with English being a second official language).

So, effectively, the correct form of your child's name is the Irish form. If you want to buck the system you should not send her to an Irish school.

So what you are saying here is that because Irish is the first language in the constitution that means every singles persons names which are legally printed on their birth certs, driving licences, tax forms, and any other form of official government form or record in English are all wrong and we should have been using the Irish version which is the correct form?
Effectively the vast majority of the irish population has been in cahoots for seven decades or so to commit the greatest combined effort of fraud this planet has most likely ever seen so we simply dont have to use the irish translations of the names our parents gave us.

Oooh that was fun

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:03AM

mitosis wrote: »

So, in your OP you asked "What does AH think?" Why ask if you don't want to be answered? Or are you only interested in replies that support your opinion?

You might have missed the point of a discussion board.

There may be one somewhere called a Listening Board. I'll have a google and come back to you.

hoodwinked · 10-04-2013 11:05AM

VinLieger wrote: »

So what you are saying here is that because Irish is the first language in the constitution that means every singles persons names which are legally printed on their birth certs, driving licences, tax forms, and any other form of official government form or record in English are all wrong and we should have been using the Irish version which is the correct form?
Effectively the vast majority of the irish population has been in cahoots for seven decades or so to commit the greatest combined effort of fraud this planet has most likely ever seen so we simply dont have to use the irish translations of the names our parents gave us.

Oooh that was fun

no they are saying in Ireland the English version = irish version of your name.

they are the same you can use one, or both or none if you want to go like prince.

either way her school is using version b, she wants version a. and she shouldn't have been enrolled in a school that uses version b if this was an issue for her or her parents.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:07AM

robinph wrote: »

Someones name does not change just because of what language you are speaking in though.

If a Richard and Ricardo met in a pub they would merely comment of the curiosity of having different versions of the same name, but one would still be called Richard and the other Ricardo regardless of where the pub they were having a pint in was located or what language they happened to be chatting in.

not necessarily true - the school is a gaelscoil which means they dialect in Irish - this is the REASON people are sent to a gaelscoil. So complaining about something that you specifically chose is ridiculous.

Also something to think about -= have you ever been on a trip to Paris. Where did you say you were going? was it Paris or PAREEEEEE (like the french say). Surely we should all be calling it PAREEEEEEE - after all it is a french name - why should it be changed?

similarly anyone coming into Ireland should call it IRELAND - no Irlande or any of that crap. :rolleyes:

reprazant · 10-04-2013 11:07AM

MadsL wrote: »

Yeah, all it needs now is for someone to be offended about people getting offended...oh hi!

Let me try once more to spell out (for the 100th fckng time) this is a thread about someone getting irritated. It may disappoint your sense of how outraged you are by my outrage which is in the a bit ticked off kinda scale, but lets talk about it anyway.

Sorry about that. There's probably a thread about a safe somewhere if you have a good root about.

Where did I get offended? I pointed out the hilarious hysteria, and what seems like complete ignorance of official state documents, of a school using a Irish version of a person's name. Deed polls and passports? Rather than being offended, I am finding your ignorance and 'irritation' quite amusing.

Leroy42 · 10-04-2013 11:09AM

But surely a name is just a name, there is no translation to a name. There is an equivalent approximation in another language, but that is not the persons name.

Many people from other countries take a different name when dealing with society at large as it makes it easier for others, but that is not their name. It is simply because many people are too lazy to learn the persons name properly and instead of having to repeat it ad nauseum, they simply take the simpler route of selecting a more indigenous name, so Zygimantas becomes Zigi.

However, unless the person selects that course themselves I think it is the height of bad manners and disrespect to assert that a person take a new name. While the child is indeed in an Irish speaking school when the Nuacht reads out a persons name, say David Cameron, they don't change his name, why is it different in this case?

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:11AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

baloney.

it won't affect her passport unless she filled the details out herself incorrectly. There are plenty of people, thousands, tens of thousands who went through school in Ireland having their names changed to Irish - it didn't affect anyone once they left.

She needs to show common usage for two years to change a passport name.

Her school has changed her name to a new (Irish) First Name and Surname

She wants to use her Birth First Name and (Irish) Surname.

Passport will not be changed until she leaves school + 2 years.

Why on earth is she in A Gaelscoil if you have a problem with them dialecting in Irish. Self made problem if you ask me.

Problem? It is just rudeness.

Where did I say I had a problem, or my daughter has a problem, with speaking Irish, she's been speaking it since she was six!!

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:12AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

But surely a name is just a name, there is no translation to a name. There is an equivalent approximation in another language, but that is not the persons name.

Many people from other countries take a different name when dealing with society at large as it makes it easier for others, but that is not their name. It is simply because many people are too lazy to learn the persons name properly and instead of having to repeat it ad nauseum, they simply take the simpler route of selecting a more indigenous name, so Zygimantas becomes Zigi.

However, unless the person selects that course themselves I think it is the height of bad manners and disrespect to assert that a person take a new name. While the child is indeed in an Irish speaking school when the Nuacht reads out a persons name, say David Cameron, they don't change his name, why is it different in this case?

because the child OR the parents CHOSE the Irish speaking school - thats the difference.

Cantona's Collars · 10-04-2013 11:12AM

Didn't RTE change there policy on this before? Newsreaders etc. read peoples names in Irish during Irish language programming but it was deemed that people went by the names they were given & these shouldn't be changed to another language.

It's ok for the kids to learn their names in Irish but if their name is actually in English then so be it,say it in English.

VinLieger · 10-04-2013 11:13AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

no they are saying in Ireland the English version = irish version of your name.

they are the same you can use one, or both or none if you want to go like prince.

either way her school is using version b, she wants version a. and she shouldn't have been enrolled in a school that uses version b if this was an issue for her or her parents.

Thats not what the post i quoted was saying at all, it specifically mentioned that because irish is the first language in the constitution therefore the irish translation of your name is the correct version.

Also the simple fact that not every name can be translated correctly into irish proves the point that translating names is a ridiculous practice. It is never a direct translation and i believe that is the problem here the child disagrees with being called something she considers not to be her name due to the inaccuracy of translating names

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:16AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

no they are saying in Ireland the English version = irish version of your name.

Is it luck of the draw? Should they not translate every name? She has a Hebrew name that long ago had some sort of Irish version. It is not her name, nor anything like the Hebrew version. It is not even pronounced the same as the Irish version. Yet it is forced on her, but not on the Emma's in the class.

they are the same you can use one, or both or none if you want to go like prince.

She'd happily use her Irish surname - school insist on both.

either way her school is using version b, she wants version a. and she shouldn't have been enrolled in a school that uses version b if this was an issue for her or her parents.

Funny how people change over time.

hoodwinked · 10-04-2013 11:17AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Thats not what the post i quoted was saying at all, it specifically mentioned that because irish is the first language in the constitution therefore the irish translation of your name is the correct version.

Also the simple fact that not every name can be translated correctly into irish proves the point that translating names is a ridiculous practice. It is never a direct translation and i believe that is the problem here the child disagrees with being called something she considers not to be her name due to the inaccuracy of translating names

she want her birth cert version used. in a school which will use the irish equivalent of your name...

eg: birth cert = Sinead, school = Sinead

birth cert = sarah, school = sorcha

if she wanted to be addressed by the english version go to a school that will do that, don't choose a school and then give out about what they do after the fact.

true · 10-04-2013 11:17AM

Let it be a warning to parents not to send their children to Gaelscoil. If the school behaves like this, how else are they trying to indoctrinate the child? Take the child out of the ****** school.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:18AM

MadsL wrote: »

She needs to show common usage for two years to change a passport name.

Her school has changed her name to a new (Irish) First Name and Surname

She wants to use her Birth First Name and (Irish) Surname.

Passport will not be changed until she leaves school + 2 years.

Problem? It is just rudeness.

Where did I say I had a problem, or my daughter has a problem, with speaking Irish, she's been speaking it since she was six!!

who filled out her passport - the school?

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:18AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

because the child OR the parents CHOSE the Irish speaking school - thats the difference.

and declined the complimentary name makeoverup.

Leroy42 · 10-04-2013 11:18AM

@ Fishy, but her name doesn't have a translation, it has a approximate similar name in Irish. Unlike a name of something (Paris was mentioned above) it can be translated, but a name is the 'tag' that identifies a person, it is whatever they (or their parents) choose it to be. Paris, a chair, a fish etc, they are all names given to the object as a whole, not that individual, and therein lies the difference.

Many countries have local versions of my name, but when I am being addressed I expect to be addressed in my given name, not some approximation of it. The school is not translating the name, it is given her another name altogether.

hoodwinked · 10-04-2013 11:19AM

MadsL wrote: »

Is it luck of the draw? Should they not translate every name? She has a Hebrew name that long ago had some sort of Irish version. It is not her name, nor anything like the Hebrew version. It is not even pronounced the same as the Irish version. Yet it is forced on her, but not on the Emma's in the class.

She'd happily use her Irish surname - school insist on both.

Funny how people change over time.

the bold part is it, the school has its policy, you agree to them if you want her to be a part of that school.

HondaSami · 10-04-2013 11:20AM

OP this name is just used while she is in school, correct? it will not make any difference to her once she leaves.
I know a few people who have passports, d/lic in Irish names, was it not common for Irish people to get an Irish version of their passport for travelling to America?

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:24AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

she want her birth cert version used. in a school which will use the irish equivalent of your name...

eg: birth cert = Sinead, school = Sinead

birth cert = sarah, school = sorcha

She would prefer Given Birth First Name + Irish translated surname. This respects the language and allows her a "personality" in her name rather than just another common first name. What is wrong with that?

if she wanted to be addressed by the english version go to a school that will do that, don't choose a school and then give out about what they do after the fact.

What kind of idiot would I be to turn down a place at a great school because they inconsistently sometimes try to change pupils names. Some pupils accept it. some resist it, some teachers accept the kids wishes others are rude feckers and make an issue out of it.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:24AM

I am just wondering how everybody else is the school is getting on with being called the irish version of their name? Or is it just this one person that has the problem.

As I said people have been called the Irish version of names in schools in Ireland for decades.

The fact that the child is in a SPECIFICALLY IRISH school you would expect them to be calling the child by her Irish name.

It's like going into a specialty tea shop and crying because they won't serve you coffee..:D:D

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:25AM

MadsL wrote: »

She would prefer Given Birth First Name + Irish translated surname. This respects the language and allows her a "personality" in her name rather than just another common first name. What is wrong with that?

What kind of idiot would I be to turn down a place at a great school because they inconsistently sometimes try to change pupils names. Some pupils accept it. some resist it, some teachers accept the kids wishes others are rude feckers and make an issue out of it.

:rolleyes:

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:25AM

HondaSami wrote: »

OP this name is just used while she is in school, correct? it will not make any difference to her once she leaves.
I know a few people who have passports, d/lic in Irish names, was it not common for Irish people to get an Irish version of their passport for travelling to America?

I am beginning to be concerned that if/when she applies for a US Green card it will be a nightmare with the FOUR different versions of her name floating around on various bits of documentation. Bit absurd at this stage.

VinLieger · 10-04-2013 11:25AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

she want her birth cert version used. in a school which will use the irish equivalent of your name...

eg: birth cert = Sinead, school = Sinead

birth cert = sarah, school = sorcha

if she wanted to be addressed by the english version go to a school that will do that, don't choose a school and then give out about what they do after the fact.

Not sure what you were addressing in that post but anyway.

Good point its only an EQUIVALENT translation therefore its not her name, its a name they have chosen to give her that is the crux here.

Wiggles88 · 10-04-2013 11:29AM

I find it odd that so many are making a big deal out of this. It's her name, it does not affect the teachers, it does not affect the teaching of Irish or anything else for that matter, it does not affect anyone other than her so surly what her name is should be her prerogative and hers alone.

OP I would just have a quick word with the principle and explain the issue, any reasonable person would correct their mistake gladly.

HondaSami · 10-04-2013 11:29AM

MadsL wrote: »

I am beginning to be concerned that if/when she applies for a US Green card it will be a nightmare with the FOUR different versions of her name floating around on various bits of documentation. Bit absurd at this stage.

Honestly school records are not going to make a difference, she will be travelling on her passport, the one you got for her, her details on here is what matters.
Her birth cert and passport are the same?

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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