Property tax letters

ShooterSF · 26-03-2013 3:37pm

I have no issue with a property tax, I actually agree with the idea in principal, but got a letter today for a property I don't own and they expect me to do their job for them and find out who owns it and provide their PPSN. I will be writing back to negotiate my compensation if they intend to employ me to do their job!

Gloomtastic! · 26-03-2013 5:21pm

amen wrote: »

Do you own a car and if so do you pay motor/road tax?

If so this is the same situation.

Property Tax in Ireland is not new. It was abolished after the general election in 77. FF were well behind in the polls and promised to abolish rates if they won.

They duly won and abolished rates. Of course that lead to a whole other raft of issues in the mid 80's.

If you think property tax is illegal I assume you think all taxes are illegal as they all derive from the the same source i.e. our Government consisting of freely elected TDs.

You are correct in what you are saying but we bought our house and paid a vast amount in stamp duty - 9% of the house price - on the understanding that this was our VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one.

Now they've run out of money so they are coming back to us looking for more money. But I'm still paying for the stamp duty - 9% of my mortgage goes to pay it off and will be for the next 20 years or so.

So they want me to pay more because they want to balance the books. They're spending more than they're earning so they are trying to bring the totals closer together to keep our Troika paymasters happy.

Are they seriously trying to bring down spending? The CPA means not a penny has been cut from the PS wage/pension bill since all this **** started 5 years ago. CPA 2 will try and reduce it by a measly €300 million per year - the same amount that increments have cost us per year since this **** started. Well done!

They try and reduce some of the €1.2billion allowances the PS receive each year but end up with just a couple of million. Well done!

You have former taosigh (sp!) retiring on pensions that are double the equivalent of our european counterparts but we can't touch them because it's their property. Well done!

We still have the highest paid doctors, teachers, politicians, unemployed, pensioners blah blah blah. Well done!

To me it just seems all taxing and no saving, that just isn't fair. Why is everyone just rolling over on this? How much of your property tax will go towards paying Dublin TDs €15,000 every year just to travel to work?

Stop the spending and then start looking for your extra taxes. That's the message I'll be giving to my local TDs face to face whenever I get my letter from these bloody parasites.

Wake up Ireland, they're taking you for a ride! :mad:

dissed doc · 26-03-2013 6:07pm

howlingcat wrote: »

Hi all
I got my valuation in the post today and I think it's time the Irish stood up for themselves.
Look what Cyprus did in 2 days am we have done nothing in 5 years .
I'm not paying and that's that.
It's unfair and unjustified tax
I believe we should all have the property tax letters within the week and what should be the next step I wonder as a simple boycott is not sufficient

It makes a lot of sense to have a property tax because it doesn't have so many exemptions like income tax which is amazingly low in Ireland for people on 20-35k compared to Germany for example, and punishingly high for people on salaries over that (again compared to Germany for example).

It's quite equitable, which is clearly why some groups are angry.

CptMackey · 26-03-2013 9:24pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You are correct in what you are saying but we bought our house and paid a vast amount in stamp duty - 9% of the house price - on the understanding that this was our VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one.

Now they've run out of money so they are coming back to us looking for more money. But I'm still paying for the stamp duty - 9% of my mortgage goes to pay it off and will be for the next 20 years or so.

So they want me to pay more because they want to balance the books. They're spending more than they're earning so they are trying to bring the totals closer together to keep our Troika paymasters happy.

Are they seriously trying to bring down spending? The CPA means not a penny has been cut from the PS wage/pension bill since all this **** started 5 years ago. CPA 2 will try and reduce it by a measly €300 million per year - the same amount that increments have cost us per year since this **** started. Well done!

They try and reduce some of the €1.2billion allowances the PS receive each year but end up with just a couple of million. Well done!

You have former taosigh (sp!) retiring on pensions that are double the equivalent of our european counterparts but we can't touch them because it's their property. Well done!

We still have the highest paid doctors, teachers, politicians, unemployed, pensioners blah blah blah. Well done!

To me it just seems all taxing and no saving, that just isn't fair. Why is everyone just rolling over on this? How much of your property tax will go towards paying Dublin TDs €15,000 every year just to travel to work?

Stop the spending and then start looking for your extra taxes. That's the message I'll be giving to my local TDs face to face whenever I get my letter from these bloody parasites.

Wake up Ireland, they're taking you for a ride! :mad:

They should cut the waste and then tax. By only taxing they continue to promote more waste. Look at the money that is paid to politicans. If they believe that they are doing it for the public good then they should only recieve the average industrial wage.

Drives me mad how people in this country just roll over and welcome new taxes without demanding reform. If people had the nerve not to pay the household charge it would have been defeated but as per always there are government cheerleaders who will do what ever they are told. A trait which has lead to many problems in history.

Cookie_Monster · 27-03-2013 3:57am

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You are correct in what you are saying but we bought our house and paid a vast amount in stamp duty - 9% of the house price - on the understanding that this was our VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one.

well that's a flawed understanding. Stamp duty is on the transaction, not the asset. Just like VRT is on the registration and motor tax is on the car.

zenno wrote: »

That is utter garbage. Why the hell should a person have to pay tax on their home when they already payed to buy their home.

Why should they pay tax on their car when they've bought a car, or pay a TV subscription when they've bought a TV or pay a dog licence when they've bought the dog... it's no different IMO and a far more stable tax base than income, so in the long term income taxes should ease back as property tax creates a stable tax income.

i don't give a jack what other EU country pays property tax as it is not only morally wrong it is illegal in my mind.

So it's only illegal in your mind, not in reality. I'm glad we've cleared that up.

(Done Properly as rates) it's a completely fair tax contributing to local amenities and services and pay for usage of resources like water and waste disposal. Done as it is in Ireland is clearly more about revenue generation than fair paying for service, but still there's hope it can be amended into Rates at some point in the future.

Gloomtastic! · 27-03-2013 5:19am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

well that's a flawed understanding. Stamp duty is on the transaction, not the asset. Just like VRT is on the registration and motor tax is on the car.

Why should they pay tax on their car when they've bought a car, or pay a TV subscription when they've bought a TV or pay a dog licence when they've bought the dog... it's no different IMO and a far more stable tax base than income, so in the long term income taxes should ease back as property tax creates a stable tax income.

So it's only illegal in your mind, not in reality. I'm glad we've cleared that up.

(Done Properly as rates) it's a completely fair tax contributing to local amenities and services and pay for usage of resources like water and waste disposal. Done as it is in Ireland is clearly more about revenue generation than fair paying for service, but still there's hope it can be amended into Rates at some point in the future.

But it's not completely fair that, as a single example of hundreds I could list, 80% of the education budget is comprised of pay and pensions yet the government cannot touch a penny of it because Jack O'Connor and his bearded buddies won't let them.
I didn't vote for Jack O'Connor in any general election yet he seems to dictate government policy - why? Where's the fairness in that?

I'm all for paying my share but not to featherbed the nests of a complete section of Irish society who believe they are better than me. This is meant to be a republic, but has turned into a banana republic with us poor monkeys taking all the pain!

OU812 · 27-03-2013 9:41am

A couple of points which were not able to be answered by revenue when I called them this morning.

I'm self employed, my wife is PAYE. The property tax form is in my name & PPS number. What is in the future (however unlikely it would be), there was some sort of tax credit available against it which I wouldn't qualify for & she would? - no answer able to be given

What if something were to happen to me & the documentation is in my name, under data protection laws, the revenue is prohibited from disclosing any information to her, what happens in this instance? - no answer able to be given.

What if she were to have me removed from the home, is the tax liability still with me? - The person indicated as the owner of the property is liable.

We jointly own the house, why is only one person't PPS number attache to the property if we both benefitted from tax relief & also both contributed to the cost & stamp duty? - no answer able to be given.

There's a lot of uncertainties about this whole thing. (apart from the fact that the only two absolutes in life are death & taxes).

Godge · 27-03-2013 6:52pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You are correct in what you are saying but we bought our house and paid a vast amount in stamp duty - 9% of the house price - on the understanding that this was our VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one.

Now they've run out of money so they are coming back to us looking for more money. But I'm still paying for the stamp duty - 9% of my mortgage goes to pay it off and will be for the next 20 years or so.

So you took out a 109% mortgage and you wonder why you can't afford it?

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

So they want me to pay more because they want to balance the books. They're spending more than they're earning so they are trying to bring the totals closer together to keep our Troika paymasters happy.

Are they seriously trying to bring down spending? The CPA means not a penny has been cut from the PS wage/pension bill since all this **** started 5 years ago. CPA 2 will try and reduce it by a measly €300 million per year - the same amount that increments have cost us per year since this **** started. Well done!

They try and reduce some of the €1.2billion allowances the PS receive each year but end up with just a couple of million. Well done!

When all else fails, spout a few lies and untruths and have a go at the public service. There have been pay cuts and more are on the way.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

We still have the highest paid doctors, teachers, politicians, unemployed, pensioners blah blah blah. Well done!

To me it just seems all taxing and no saving, that just isn't fair. Why is everyone just rolling over on this? How much of your property tax will go towards paying Dublin TDs €15,000 every year just to travel to work?

Stop the spending and then start looking for your extra taxes. That's the message I'll be giving to my local TDs face to face whenever I get my letter from these bloody parasites.

Wake up Ireland, they're taking you for a ride! :mad:

Public service pay has been cut by several billion, well documented on these boards.

The problem is social welfare is rising.

Gloomtastic! · 27-03-2013 10:54pm

Godge wrote: »

So you took out a 109% mortgage and you wonder why you can't afford it?

Huh?

When all else fails, spout a few lies and untruths and have a go at the public service. There have been pay cuts and more are on the way.

Public service pay has been cut by several billion, well documented on these boards.

The problem is social welfare is rising.

Which parts are lies?

We are a bankrupt state. We cannot afford to pay the most for doctors, teachers.... how many times do I have to list these?

Btw, read today we have the most generous fuel allowance in Europe.

It has to stop, it really does. We cannot afford it and we never, ever will. When will we wake up to this fact?

Godge · 28-03-2013 12:45am

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Huh?

Which parts are lies?

Now, remember, you did ask the question, so let us go back to your original post.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You are correct in what you are saying but we bought our house and paid a vast amount in stamp duty - 9% of the house price - on the understanding that this was our VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one.

Where in any part of the stamp duty legislation does it say that this was your VRT/Motor Tax all rolled into one. Either you genuinely believe(d) this which makes you a fool or you are making it up which makes it a lie. You take your pick.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Now they've run out of money so they are coming back to us looking for more money. But I'm still paying for the stamp duty - 9% of my mortgage goes to pay it off and will be for the next 20 years or so.

If 9% of your mortgage goes to pay the stamp duty, you must have had no deposit which would have been put towards the stamp duty (first call on your money is always the revenue) which means you must have had a 109% mortgage, or maybe it is a lie that you are paying the stamp duty for 20 years.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

So they want me to pay more because they want to balance the books. They're spending more than they're earning so they are trying to bring the totals closer together to keep our Troika paymasters happy.

Yes, this is true, they need to balance the books and the Troika have said a balance must be struck between taxation and spending cuts. They have also said that a property tax must be part of the solution, on that I think we agree.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Are they seriously trying to bring down spending? The CPA means not a penny has been cut from the PS wage/pension bill since all this **** started 5 years ago. CPA 2 will try and reduce it by a measly €300 million per year - the same amount that increments have cost us per year since this **** started. Well done!

This is a heap of horse manure, to put it politely. You will not be able to produce one piece of evidence to back this up. A complete load of lies.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

They try and reduce some of the €1.2billion allowances the PS receive each year but end up with just a couple of million. Well done!

Again, lies, probably getting your information from some rag like the Daily Mail or the Sindo.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You have former taosigh (sp!) retiring on pensions that are double the equivalent of our european counterparts but we can't touch them because it's their property. Well done!

I will give you this one to a point except that we have cut their pensions a little. So another half-lie.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

We still have the highest paid doctors, teachers, politicians, unemployed, pensioners blah blah blah. Well done!

Yes, this is rubbish spouted now and again, but nobody has been able to produce up-to-date 2012 figures to verify this. More lies and half-truths.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

To me it just seems all taxing and no saving, that just isn't fair. Why is everyone just rolling over on this? How much of your property tax will go towards paying Dublin TDs €15,000 every year just to travel to work?

No, more lies, there has been spending cuts, about the same as taxation increases, have a read of some budget speeches before you spout this rubbish.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Stop the spending and then start looking for your extra taxes. That's the message I'll be giving to my local TDs face to face whenever I get my letter from these bloody parasites.

Wake up Ireland, they're taking you for a ride! :mad:

If you had come on here and said that the balance should be increased towards spending rather than taxation, it could have been a rational discussion but an uninformed rant about public sector wages and social welfare in a thread about the property tax (a necessary tax in my opinion albeit somewhat flawed in implementation) doesn't really add anything.

Gloomtastic! · 28-03-2013 8:35am

This the point where some posters would provide links to back all their arguments, or lies as you call them. Not this time I'm afraid. Too little time on my hands.

You can shout liar at me and you make my argument look weak. My argument still stands. We need to seriously cut spending before we raise any more taxes. Simple, fact, end of story!

That's why I'm posting this in a property tax thread. So that people, like youself, who believe everyone should pay to keep a very cosseted minority in the lifestyle they've settled very nicely into, they are wrong.

WE CANNOT AFFORD IT! What part of that argument can't people understand?

Gloomtastic! · 28-03-2013 9:11am

Correction: it's not a cosseted minority. It's nearly the majority at this stage -

PS
Pensioners
Unemployed

Total No? 1.3million?
No. Of Working Population? 1.3million?

Gumbo · 28-03-2013 10:02pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

This the point where some posters would provide links to back all their arguments, or lies as you call them. Not this time I'm afraid. Too little time on my hands.

You can shout liar at me and you make my argument look weak. My argument still stands. We need to seriously cut spending before we raise any more taxes. Simple, fact, end of story!

That's why I'm posting this in a property tax thread. So that people, like youself, who believe everyone should pay to keep a very cosseted minority in the lifestyle they've settled very nicely into, they are wrong.

WE CANNOT AFFORD IT! What part of that argument can't people understand?

So in other words, you cannot backup your lies claims..

Mr. teddywinkles · 31-03-2013 12:17pm

amen wrote: »

Do you own a car and if so do you pay motor/road tax?

If so this is the same situation.

Property Tax in Ireland is not new. It was abolished after the general election in 77. FF were well behind in the polls and promised to abolish rates if they won.

They duly won and abolished rates. Of course that lead to a whole other raft of issues in the mid 80's.

If you think property tax is illegal I assume you think all taxes are illegal as they all derive from the the same source i.e. our Government consisting of freely elected TDs.

For road maintaineance which there does not seem to be a whole lot of these days. And btw what taxes and stealth taxes have been introduced since these abolished rates you speak of.

alastair · 09-04-2013 8:33pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

For road maintaineance which there does not seem to be a whole lot of these days.

Motor tax is no more allocated to road maintenance than VAT, or any other tax is - it all goes into the same central revenue pool.

stephenjmcd · 09-04-2013 8:34pm

Haven't got one yet

NIMAN · 09-04-2013 10:07pm

Still no letter here either.

relax carry on · 09-04-2013 11:18pm

Latest update in the link below but

LPT letters issued, including through ROS 1,193,154

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/2013/pr-050413-local-property-tax.html

antoobrien · 10-04-2013 8:22am

alastair wrote: »

Motor tax is no more allocated to road maintenance than VAT, or any other tax is - it all goes into the same central revenue pool.

Not true, motor tax is gathered by dept of environment and is paid back in its entirety to the LAs.

A minimum of 1/3 of motor tax must go on road maintenance.

donegal_road · 10-04-2013 10:26am

I didn't get a letter either.. but a thought did occur to me yesterday, letters are sent out to home owners stating which tax band their property is situated in eg. €120k - €150k, and they pay accordingly... what if the house is insured for €250k, will insurance companies be required to give home owners a rebate?

Geuze · 10-04-2013 10:45am

The market value is used for LPT.

You insure for the rebuild cost.

These two figures may be different, far apart, and not related.

antoobrien · 10-04-2013 11:09am

Geuze wrote: »

The market value is used for LPT.

You insure for the rebuild cost.

And replacement of contents.

Max Power1 · 14-04-2013 4:54pm

Ogham wrote: »

They are just trying to match a property with a person. It's proably easier for them to match to one person that they already have on record as a current or recent tax payer.

The estimate is just an average for all houses in the electoral area. It is not an individual valuation - you don't have to go with it.
See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-letter-estimates-differ-from-valuation-guide.html

I got no letter (not that I have any intention of paying anyway, but thats another story)

However my brother, and both of my parents got letters for the one house. Obviously they are using some crappy automated system to match address to name.

Gloomtastic! · 14-04-2013 5:10pm

If you're registered on Revenue Online Service (ROS) you'll get your LPT letter by email. I did.

I'm self-employed, They have no access to my bank account. They can only send letters, or emails demanding whatever.

Ogham · 14-04-2013 5:41pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

I got no letter (not that I have any intention of paying anyway, but thats another story)

However my brother, and both of my parents got letters for the one house. Obviously they are using some crappy automated system to match address to name.

If they check the letters closely - there will be a difference in the addresses - it may be very slight like Road or Rd.
Eac letter will have adifferent Property Id number. Revenue probably have 3 slightly different spellings of the address associated with 3 different people - so they have treated it as 3 different houses. You family shouldn't just ignore the extra lettere - tehy need to get in touch with Revenue to let them know the situation -or they will end up owing 3 lots of Prop Tax 1

NIMAN · 14-04-2013 6:39pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Still no letter here either.

Its arrived.:rolleyes:

nesf · 14-04-2013 8:54pm

Ogham wrote: »

If they check the letters closely - there will be a difference in the addresses - it may be very slight like Road or Rd.
Eac letter will have adifferent Property Id number. Revenue probably have 3 slightly different spellings of the address associated with 3 different people - so they have treated it as 3 different houses. You family shouldn't just ignore the extra lettere - tehy need to get in touch with Revenue to let them know the situation -or they will end up owing 3 lots of Prop Tax 1

This. My sister got a letter delivered to my parents home about a house. She's never owned any property or had a mortgage. My parents (since they got the letter) got onto the Revenue immediately and explained the situation, the Revenue gave them absolutely no problems and apologised for the mistake and corrected the records. It is very important that this call is made because it's the only way the Revenue can know that a letter was sent out in error. The Revenue will be happy you called, they do not want to be chasing after someone for payment in six months only to find out the person never owned the property in question.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 17-04-2013 4:17pm

I'M still waiting on the ptl

Ogham · 17-04-2013 5:31pm

Looks like the bulk of them have gone out. http://www.moneyguideireland.com/have-all-the-property-tax-forms-gone-out-yet.html

Revenue are saying to ask for a form if you haven't had one yet.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 18-04-2013 1:17am

i have time yet ,, i not doing there job for them

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 7:09am

I got my letter last week.

Firstly, I would like to point out that I have no, nor ever had any intention for paying a tax on something I've already paid stamp duty on, but that is irrelevant for this thread.

I found it interesting that the letter I received valued my house at the higher tier than the map on the lpt Web site.

I can think of two possible reasons for this:

They hope people will mistake the letter for a demand, or hope they are not computer/Internet savvy that they could compare on the site. End result being thousands overpaying the tax. Which revenue have already stated "anyone overpaying the tax will not get a refund".

Or

They hope the people will make contact to correct the 'mistake' or register their house on the lower band, therefore tying abd individual to the property.

I will not pay a cent in property tax to a govt whose head of said himself that it was morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home.

I'd also like to mention that the fact labour may be forced to jump ship from the coalition, a general election will have to take place. If that happens, the lpt could be scrapped.

Revenue themselves said "no refund" so keep that in mind anyone wishing to pay early.

Chips Lovell · 18-04-2013 7:22am

If the property tax were scrapped, it wouldn't remove anyone's outstanding liability.

Ronan|Raven · 18-04-2013 7:22am

Got my letter and did indeed laugh at the amount they are seeking. They have my 1 bed apartment in the 200-250k range despite being purchased for well below that 3 years ago..

It is also higher than the valuation guidelines on their website I affectionately call "agent orange"

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 7:37am

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

If the property tax were scrapped, it wouldn't remove anyone's outstanding liability.

FF and SF will, with many other parties offer is abolition along with any fines etc in return for votes.

If under 300,000 public sector workers can send a clear message to the govt with the collapse of the cpa, they really should have taken notice at the 6-800, 000 homeowners who didn't pay the hhc.

Oh and on that note, I didn't pay or register for the hhc either. Despite all the threats it wasn't mentioned in revenues letter.

Scare mongering failure again. :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell · 18-04-2013 7:39am

You're claiming that not only will SF and FF scrap the property tax (which is possible) but also that they will give an amnesty to those who hadn't paid and not refund those who had (unlikely)?

Sizzler · 18-04-2013 7:41am

OK, so all joking aside.

I dont agree with paying this (for a raft of reasons) but my other half thinks its OK to pay.

I dont own the house, its owned jointly but I got a letter.

So why am I being asked to pay it when I dont own it (can this be split?) No sign of any other letters coming to us! And How can I not pay my 50% portion?

I think its a fair argument

Anybody else in a similar situation?!

For the record we dont *own* a property, its in 25-35% neg equity...depending on which valuation you go with!

ednwireland · 18-04-2013 7:43am

still no letters up here (and its paid for on houshold charge and the other one on scond home charge)

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 7:50am

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You're claiming that not only will SF and FF scrap the property tax (which is possible) but also that they will give an amnesty to those who hadn't paid and not refund those who had (unlikely)?

Well, if people take my advice, and don't pay early, if a new govt is indeed formed they wouldn't necessarily be refunding too many to refund.

Aside from that. I bought my home in 06 paid stamp duty on it yet I now am expected to pay property tax on it.
Someone buying this year, paying no stamp duty and will be property tax exempt until (2016? )

Wheres my refund or amnesty?

Chips Lovell · 18-04-2013 7:53am

SamHall wrote: »

Well, if people take my advice, and don't pay early, if a new govt is indeed formed they wouldn't necessarily be refunding too many to refund.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here?

bidiots · 18-04-2013 7:55am

SamHall wrote: »

Well, if people take my advice, and don't pay early, if a new govt is indeed formed they wouldn't necessarily be refunding too many to refund.

Aside from that. I bought my home in 06 paid stamp duty on it yet I now am expected to pay property tax on it.
Someone buying this year, paying no stamp duty and will be property tax exempt until (2016? )

Wheres my refund or amnesty?

Give me your tracker mortgage and I'll pay the tax for you.....

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 7:57am

Vladimi Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here?

Sorry on phone auto text can have a mind of its own.

What i was saying was that if people hold out paying this until they absolutely must, if a new govt is formed before July, there won't be that many needed refunded.

Im not encouraging people not to pay mind you. I won't be paying, but that's my decision.

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 7:58am

bidiots wrote: »

Give me your tracker mortgage and I'll pay the tax for you.....

Who says I've a tracker mortgage?

I don't even know what that is:pac:

Chips Lovell · 18-04-2013 8:02am

So, you're advising people not to pay, on the assumption that a.) there will be a new government, b.) who'll abolish property tax and c.) give an amnesty to those who haven't paid and refund those who have.

What could possibly go wrong? I mean, it's a dead cert that all of those three things will happen and nobody will be left nursing a tax bill with interest and penalties after following your advice.

K-9 · 18-04-2013 8:03am

SamHall wrote: »

FF and SF will, with many other parties offer is abolition along with any fines etc in return for votes.

If under 300,000 public sector workers can send a clear message to the govt with the collapse of the cpa, they really should have taken notice at the 6-800, 000 homeowners who didn't pay the hhc.

Oh and on that note, I didn't pay or register for the hhc either. Despite all the threats it wasn't mentioned in revenues letter.

Scare mongering failure again. :rolleyes:

SF mentioned refunding it, but I never heard that mentioned again during news coverage on the news or anything I read. Maybe it came up during the Ard Fheis, but the only thing I heard was they would abolish it, which makes me thing it wasn't mentioned again, too populist not to be the headline news.

I suspect they dropped the refund policy because its a bit dumb and unrealistic really, and would only come back to haunt them from those gullible enough to swallow it.

I always thought FF just disagreed with the implementation of the tax, not the tax itself.

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 8:08am

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So, you're advising people not to pay, on the assumption that a.) there will be a new government, b.) who'll abolish property tax and c.) give an amnesty to those who haven't paid and refund those who have..

No I'm not. I'm confused how you could interpret

What i was saying was that if people hold out paying this until they absolutely must

And

Im not encouraging people not to pay mind you

in any other way, than how it was written.

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 8:12am

K-9 wrote: »

SF mentioned refunding it, but I never heard that mentioned again during news coverage on the news or anything I read. Maybe it came up during the Ard Fheis, but the only thing I heard was they would abolish it, which makes me thing it wasn't mentioned again, too populist not to be the headline news.

I suspect they dropped the refund policy because its a bit dumb and unrealistic really, and would only come back to haunt them from those gullible enough to swallow it.

I always thought FF just disagreed with the implementation of the tax, not the tax itself.

I agree K9.

While I welcomed their opposition to it, it was sheer ludicrous to offer a refund.

They would have been much better to say that's abolish it.

I honestly can see a general election coming up before the summer. If labour vote through the pay cut, that's the end of labour.

Don't, they'll have to walk from govt.

Who'd have thought less than 300k people could have caused such an upset to govt?

Chips Lovell · 18-04-2013 8:15am

SamHall wrote: »

No I'm not. I'm confused how you could interpret
And in any other way, than how it was written.

Sorry for misunderstanding, but it wasn't clear that you were advocating that people wait till the deadline to pay.

nesf · 18-04-2013 8:36am

SamHall wrote: »

Who'd have thought less than 300k people could have caused such an upset to govt?

Only because an Irish Government hasn't faced down a public sector union in a very long time. If ever? FF just paid them off, easiest option, FG/Lab are in a position where the pay bill needs to come down but FF negotiated no job cuts so the only thing left is pay cuts. If FG/Lab don't enact some kind of unilateral cut they will lose all bargaining power with the unions for the rest of their term in Government. Not that they really had much to begin with anyway.

Banjo String · 18-04-2013 8:42am

nesf wrote: »

Only because an Irish Government hasn't faced down a public sector union in a very long time. If ever? FF just paid them off, easiest option, FG/Lab are in a position where the pay bill needs to come down but FF negotiated no job cuts so the only thing left is pay cuts. If FG/Lab don't enact some kind of unilateral cut they will lose all bargaining power with the unions for the rest of their term in Government. Not that they really had much to begin with anyway.

I agree.

Vote buying has returned though. SF were very quick to support the PS following the colkapse of the cpa. Possibly hoping to mop up disillusioned labour voters.

K-9 · 18-04-2013 9:36am

nesf wrote: »

Only because an Irish Government hasn't faced down a public sector union in a very long time. If ever? FF just paid them off, easiest option, FG/Lab are in a position where the pay bill needs to come down but FF negotiated no job cuts so the only thing left is pay cuts. If FG/Lab don't enact some kind of unilateral cut they will lose all bargaining power with the unions for the rest of their term in Government. Not that they really had much to begin with anyway.

Did FF say no job cuts ever? Even if they did, would that not be up for discussion under a new Government/deal?

As far as I know the drop in numbers is ahead of schedule, the redundancy scheme was an success in that regard. I presume that is down to more than predicted taking the redundancy package and not replacing temporary staff let go.

Property tax letters

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