Property tax letters

howlingcat

Hi all
I got my valuation in the post today and I think it's time the Irish stood up for themselves.
Look what Cyprus did in 2 days am we have done nothing in 5 years .
I'm not paying and that's that.
It's unfair and unjustified tax
I believe we should all have the property tax letters within the week and what should be the next step I wonder as a simple boycott is not sufficient

Geuze

Property taxes are economically sensible.

They may not be populist in Ireland, but they do make economic and social sense.

The alternative is higher consumption and/or income taxes, which would harm the domestic economy more.


http://www.ifs.org.uk/mirrleesreview/design/ch16.pdf

howlingcat

howlingcat wrote: »

Look what Cyprus did in 2 days am we have done nothing in 5 years

What exactly have Cyprus done? All I see is they have annoyed the ECB to the point where it is pulling the plug on their zombie banks.

NIMAN

@ OP

This ain't like the household Charge, they will get the money off you, one way or another.

Gloomtastic!

Geuze wrote: »

Property taxes are economically sensible.

They may not be populist in Ireland, but they do make economic and social sense.

The alternative is higher consumption and/or income taxes, which would harm the domestic economy more.


http://www.ifs.org.uk/mirrleesreview/design/ch16.pdf

An alternative I would prefer to see is to reduce public spending to a level that this country can afford. We rank among the highest paid teachers, politicians, doctors, unemployed, pensioners - the list is pretty long - in Europe, we also have the highest deficit in Europe. Can nobody see the co-relation?

Scortho

NIMAN wrote: »

@ OP

This ain't like the household Charge, they will get the money off you, one way or another.

Not only that, now that its in revenues hands they're getting last years household charge as well!
Why it wasn't given to revenue in the first place is beyond me. All one has to look at is how unsuccessful the councils are at collecting car tax, so much so that they need the Gardai to enforce it.
You don't see revenue requiring them to enforce paye, prsi or vat!

Geuze

Yes, public spending has to fall as well, to close the deficit.

All PS workers have taken two pay cuts.

CPA II means further cuts to the paybill.

I suggest the following:

Further cuts to PS pensions
Massive cuts to drug costs
Abolish JSA
Abolish OPFP
Cut rents paid by the public service

Bannasidhe

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, public spending has to fall as well, to close the deficit.

All PS workers have taken two pay cuts.

CPA II means further cuts to the paybill.

I suggest the following:

Further cuts to PS pensions
Massive cuts to drug costs
Abolish JSA
Abolish OPFP
Cut rents paid by the public service

Why not just advocate slave labour for the unemployed and the immediate placement of all children of lone parents in Industrial schools ?

howlingcat

I've heard it all now . It makes economic sence to have a property tax. There may be some truth to this but not during a recession . If it was to be introduced it should have been completed during the boom times.
As for the revenue will get it by hook or by crook well lets not make it too easy.
Join the local protests and the march against the property tax on April 13 th

Manach

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why not just advocate slave labour for the unemployed and the immediate placement of all children of lone parents in Industrial schools ?

The books have to be balanced one way or another and the historical pendulum from laissez-faire and now swung completely to an all intrusive nanny state where the Government and its agencies are in the ascendant at a cost we are all paying for.

Geuze

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why not just advocate slave labour for the unemployed and the immediate placement of all children of lone parents in Industrial schools ?

I should have elaborated.

Increase the duration of JSB to two years.
Increase the amount of JSB, during initial unemploment.

Abolish the open-ended JSA.
Replace with actual paid jobs for the LT employed.

Don't pay them not to work, pay them to work.

By jobs here I mean 3-day week jobs in general public / social works.

Bannasidhe

Manach wrote: »

The books have to be balanced one way or another and the historical pendulum from laissez-faire and now swung completely to an all intrusive nanny state where the Government and its agencies are in the ascendant at a cost we are all paying for.

I don't know why you are addressing that to me as I made no comment on political theory, but personally, I am of the opinion that we are a society first and an economy second.

To take the suggestion that JSA be abolished - this disregards that despite the amount of PRSI contributions (possibly decades worth) a person has paid, should they lose their job during this recession they will be entitled to JSB only for the grand total of 9 months max then nothing as under the current system after that 9 month period one is transferred to JSA.
So for the sake of 'balancing the books' we should throw people who have contributed through taxation and PRSI to the financial wolves after 9 months...:eek:

Forcing the unemployed into slave labour would also help 'balance the books'.

Are you advocating a return to Laissez-faire?

hallo dare

Bullying pr1cks,taking our money! i'd love to see all the government and revenue people show their property tax receipts. robbers

Bannasidhe

Geuze wrote: »

I should have elaborated.

Increase the duration of JSB to two years.
Increase the amount of JSB, during initial unemploment.

Abolish the open-ended JSA.
Replace with actual paid jobs for the LT employed.

Don't pay them not to work, pay them to work.

By jobs here I mean 3-day week jobs in general public / social works.

Thank you for clarifying. I would have no issue with what you have said but have two points which also need to be considered:

LT unemployed:

1. Lack of jobs. There really is no escaping that fact.
What about those currently employed to do these general public/social works? What happens to their jobs?


LP's:

2. Lack of affordable child care is a serious barrier to LP's finding employment particularly those who would be at the 'unskilled' minimum wage end of the spectrum. That issue needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Geuze

Bannasidhe wrote: »

LT unemployed:

What about those currently employed to do these general public/social works? What happens to their jobs?

Nothing.

There is plenty of work to be done.

I suggest 100,000 places, 3 days per week, paid.

One small example of possible social / public works: building hundreds of kms of greenways on old railway routes.

Geuze

Bannasidhe wrote: »

LP's:

2. Lack of affordable child care is a serious barrier to LP's finding employment particularly those who would be at the 'unskilled' minimum wage end of the spectrum. That issue needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

I fully agree.

NIMAN

Scortho wrote: »

Not only that, now that its in revenues hands they're getting last years household charge as well!
Why it wasn't given to revenue in the first place is beyond me. All one has to look at is how unsuccessful the councils are at collecting car tax, so much so that they need the Gardai to enforce it.
You don't see revenue requiring them to enforce paye, prsi or vat!

True.

Cut and paste from their own documentation:

"If you don’t submit a Return, or contact Revenue to say why you are not liable (see Question 6) Revenue will
pursue you for this estimated amount of tax using a range of collection options including:
● Mandatory deduction from 1 July 2013 from your employment income, occupational pension or
certain Government payments.
● Attachment of your bank account.
● Referral of the debt to a Sheriff or a Solicitor for collection.
● The withholding of any refund of other tax as payment against LPT due.
Because you have a Revenue debt, you will also not qualify for a Tax Clearance Certificate. Self-employed
persons or companies will also be liable to a late filing surcharge on Income Tax or Corporation Tax Returns.
Interest charges at 8% per annum apply to late payment of LPT and penalties may also arise. Any unpaid LPT
attaches to the property and you will not be able to sell it without paying any LPT, interest and penalties due."

Plus: regarding unpaid Household Charge

Q: I didn’t pay the Household Charge, what should I do?
You should register with your local authority or with the Local Government Management Agency and pay the
Household Charge. Any unpaid Household Charge at 1 July 2013 will be converted into an LPT charge of
€200 and collected by Revenue in due course and may be subject to interest.

Gloomtastic!

NIMAN wrote: »

True.

Cut and paste from their own documentation:

"If you don’t submit a Return, or contact Revenue to say why you are not liable (see Question 6) Revenue will
pursue you for this estimated amount of tax using a range of collection options including:
● Mandatory deduction from 1 July 2013 from your employment income, occupational pension or
certain Government payments.
● Attachment of your bank account.
● Referral of the debt to a Sheriff or a Solicitor for collection.
● The withholding of any refund of other tax as payment against LPT due.
Because you have a Revenue debt, you will also not qualify for a Tax Clearance Certificate. Self-employed
persons or companies will also be liable to a late filing surcharge on Income Tax or Corporation Tax Returns.
Interest charges at 8% per annum apply to late payment of LPT and penalties may also arise. Any unpaid LPT
attaches to the property and you will not be able to sell it without paying any LPT, interest and penalties due."

Plus: regarding unpaid Household Charge

Q: I didn’t pay the Household Charge, what should I do?
You should register with your local authority or with the Local Government Management Agency and pay the
Household Charge. Any unpaid Household Charge at 1 July 2013 will be converted into an LPT charge of
€200 and collected by Revenue in due course and may be subject to interest.

Chilling similarities to what they are trying to do in Cyprus - you give it or we take it.

the watchman

If you think the Property Tax is unfair or simply just don't like it, this could be a plan!.....



http://www.attackthetax.com/news.html

NIMAN

the watchman wrote: »

If you think the Property Tax is unfair or simply just don't like it, this could be a plan!.....



http://www.attackthetax.com/news.html

:rolleyes:

tails_naf

Bannasidhe wrote: »

LP's:

2. Lack of affordable child care is a serious barrier to LP's finding employment particularly those who would be at the 'unskilled' minimum wage end of the spectrum. That issue needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

I often thought - why not state run child-care, and use the pool of existing lone-parents as good candidates for who might work in that area - benefits could be:

- You could train/employ single-mothers/parents (who are currently staying at home, minding kids and getting benefits)
- Wage would be higher than benefits alone, but the cost to the state is a saving as it would provide very cheap childcare for everyone

So for a small delta increase in what one person is currently getting from the state could enable others to have child-care so they can work -> nett saving

Without this, the barrier to entry for single parents in the work-force is too high in many cases, so they are 'trapped' on benefits.

hfallada

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Chilling similarities to what they are trying to do in Cyprus - you give it or we take it.

They are protecting the ordinary person in cyprus. The the EU only wants to tax the dirty Russian money that caused they're problems in the first place. Russian kept billions in Cyprus to keep it from Moscow. Making Cyprus a country that makes up 0,2% of the Eurozone economy the second largest investor in Russia.

The EU is lending Cyprus as they can't borrow themselves on the market. I don't know how you are getting a connection to a property tax which was planned on being introduced years ago and cyprus which was happened in the last fortnight?

Gloomtastic!

hfallada wrote: »

They are protecting the ordinary person in cyprus. The the EU only wants to tax the dirty Russian money that caused they're problems in the first place. Russian kept billions in Cyprus to keep it from Moscow. Making Cyprus a country that makes up 0,2% of the Eurozone economy the second largest investor in Russia.

The EU is lending Cyprus as they can't borrow themselves on the market. I don't know how you are getting a connection to a property tax which was planned on being introduced years ago and cyprus which was happened in the last fortnight?

Bullying beaurocrats imposing their will on the people. They are the problem, not the solution!

stevedublin

hfallada wrote: »

The the EU only wants to tax the dirty Russian money that caused they're problems in the first place. Russian kept billions in Cyprus to keep it from Moscow. Making Cyprus a country that makes up 0,2% of the Eurozone economy the second largest investor in Russia.

How do people putting money into Cyprus's banks cause problems?
Surely it would help Cyprus's economy by increasing the pool of cash in the country?

jack presley

I got my letter in the post on Friday and the estimate of the value of my place was 2 bands higher than the one on their map. I know they're both only guides but as they came from the same source, surely they should have the same value?

jack presley

the watchman wrote: »

If you think the Property Tax is unfair or simply just don't like it, this could be a plan!.....



http://www.attackthetax.com/news.html

Who's behind this? I presume it's the Socialist party or someone like that.

Geuze

jack presley wrote: »

I got my letter in the post on Friday and the estimate of the value of my place was 2 bands higher than the one on their map. I know they're both only guides but as they came from the same source, surely they should have the same value?

No, as the Revenue don't know what type of house you have.

monkeypants

NIMAN wrote: »

Any unpaid Household Charge at 1 July 2013 will be converted into an LPT charge of €200 and collected by Revenue in due course and may be subject to interest.

Was late payment of the household charge not supposed to be more expensive than that?

hawkelady

monkeypants wrote: »

Was late payment of the household charge not supposed to be more expensive than that?

No , one of the reasons the hhc was flawed was because the late payment fees were laughable. If the fine was an extra €100 for each week/ month that went by you would have seen a larger compliance rate

nesf

jack presley wrote: »

Who's behind this? I presume it's the Socialist party or someone like that.

Some truly special people are behind it, it's referring to this case on the website as a legal basis: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1220/359823-high-court-challenge-to-household-charge-begins/

Thing is, this case hasn't been ruled on yet so we really have no idea if they've any legal standing at all but that's not exactly how its phrased on the website.

monkeypants

I'm sorry, but their faces are comical, especially the woman. :pac: