Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

pablomakaveli · 07-04-2013 07:25PM

For anyone who wants to know what living with depression is like there was an author called Matthew Johnstone who made a book I Had a Black Dog which shows it in quite a simple method where in the book the Black Dog is depression.

You can read the first few pages of it here:

http://matthewjohnstone.com.au/courses/i-had-a-black-dog/

And another one called Living with a Black Dog which is aimed towards people who live with someone with depression:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/gallery/2009/jan/28/mental-health-depression-black-dog

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 07-04-2013 07:28PM

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I understand you're probably a hip-cool-with-it-atheist, but why the chippyness and bigotry?

What's your ambition in life? To have a good time? To experience as much pleasure as possible before death?

The continuum of life from conception to death is a mystery. I can tell you for sure that I didn't create myself. I can also tell you for sure that God sent His Son to walk the earth 2000 years ago (no doubt you'll attempt to deny this); and from His presence, the New Testament came into being. Humanity cannot and never has known everything. We must strive to do good in our day-to-day lives and live according to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

If you wish to believe that when you die, you simply "cease to exist" because you read this in some airport book written by Dawkins or someone; that fine. There is lower hanging fruit for us Christians to work at evangelising.

The only thing more annoying than a militant atheist is an evangalist.

Chronic Button · 07-04-2013 07:45PM

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Look, it's great that you were there for people and listened, but the fact remains that a lot of what you posted indicated a scary lack of knowledge about mental health and the mindset of depressed and suicidal people....

Oh change the bloody record

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 07:48PM

Steve O wrote: »

No you see, I will engage with you when you have something constructive to say. The only posts you have made in contribution, is to state that the people whom have quite rightly pointed out what the boy said was wrong they were still sympathetic. Instead of insulting everyone in the thread, point out all of the so-called "smug, condescending, and self righteous" posts up until your own.

"Quite rightly" in your opinion. You conveniently left that bit out. I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

It doesn't matter that he was only 16, I've seen plenty of 16 year old's that had the life experience and maturity of persons twice their age, and by that same token I've also seen the opposite- grown adults behaving like children, and some of the posts in this thread are evidence of that, and evidence of people who are quite willing to quickly dismiss other people who don't jig with their world view.

Steve O · 07-04-2013 07:55PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

I didn't think you would.

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 08:07PM

Steve O wrote: »

I didn't think you would.

Bear with me Steve, I'll be back in a while, I'm posting from mobile so this copying and pasting lark is going to be a pain in the proverbial.

I know the evidence will only be met with a "So fcuking what?" type retort, much like the way another poster when they shared their story was told they still had no experience of suicide and depression by the armchair experts (hence why I won't be sharing in this particular thread, but was still reading hoping to learn something), but sure I'll have at it anyway.

Odysseus · 07-04-2013 08:20PM

Actually despite all the sh!te the website has got over the past few weeks, this is not a bad page here http://spunout.ie/health/article/helping-a-friend-or-family-member-stop-self-harming

For people looking for basic info, it is not bad

Lyra Fangs · 07-04-2013 08:31PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

"Quite rightly" in your opinion. You conveniently left that bit out. I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

It doesn't matter that he was only 16, I've seen plenty of 16 year old's that had the life experience and maturity of persons twice their age, and by that same token I've also seen the opposite- grown adults behaving like children, and some of the posts in this thread are evidence of that, and evidence of people who are quite willing to quickly dismiss other people who don't jig with their world view.

Most of the people on this thread know what the boy was trying to say, their issue is not with the underlying message but how it was communicated. As another poster said earlier criticising a person's views is not in itself a personal attack on that person. No one has insulted the boy or been condescending they have simply stated that the boy should not have been given the opportunity to speak about issues he clearly knows very little about on national television.

CaraMay · 07-04-2013 08:37PM

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Corkfeen · 07-04-2013 08:38PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Actually despite all the sh!te the website has got over the past few weeks, this is not a bad page here http://spunout.ie/health/article/helping-a-friend-or-family-member-stop-self-harming

For people looking for basic info, it is not bad

Indeed, it really is a rather good website. I hope to feck that they don't cut their funding.

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 08:41PM

Steve O wrote: »

I didn't think you would.

I didn't have to go too far, saves me posting a three page post of quotes, some of which would look out of context. Thankfully you kept yours short and snappy, and keep in mind these are only a selection of YOUR posts in this thread-

Steve O wrote: »

Feel bad for his situation but he is fcuking clueless.

He's young though.

Steve O wrote: »

It really isn't that simple for depressives.

They can't have a simple lily white view of the world that you seem to have. Again a product of not educating yourself on the subject.

Steve O wrote: »

Then excuse me if I say you're full of shit.

And to the above, I shall leave you the last word-

Steve O wrote: »

The irony.

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 08:41PM

CaraMay wrote: »

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Why? Has he returned from the dead?

We all know we're going to die. He will sadly die sooner than anyone should have to but that doesn't make him an authority on death and it definitely doesn't make him an authority on depression.

It does make him an authority on how he copes with knowing he will die soon, but not on how others 'should' cope with depression.

Lyra Fangs · 07-04-2013 08:43PM

CaraMay wrote: »

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Privately maybe, but not on national television where his words will reach thousands of people some of whom may very well be contemplating suicide or battling with depression and who may be negatively affected by what he says.

In saying that, dying is a very different thing to suicide. Just because he is going through a tremendously difficult experience (which I would not wish on my greatest enemy) does not mean he can speak freely about suicide or depression as if he suddenly has a profound understanding of such issues.

CaraMay · 07-04-2013 08:53PM

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 08:59PM

CaraMay wrote: »

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

There is a difference between presenting opinions in a casual discussion and starting a national campaign to tell suicidal people to "sleep on it".

Lyra Fangs · 07-04-2013 09:01PM

CaraMay wrote: »

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

I never claimed to speak on behalf of everyone who's depressed in the country. If anything I've actively tried to avoid saying "all" or "everyone". I offer only my opinion of what this boy has said and how it might appear to some people in the midst of depression. Many other posters on here share the same opinion as me so I can't be the only one who thinks that he come across as uninformed and judgmental.

jigglypuffstuff · 07-04-2013 09:02PM

Seachmall wrote: »

There is a difference between presenting opinions in a casual discussion and starting a national campaign to tell suicidal people to "sleep on it".

The message to take from that was to think about the action said person is going to commit, Surely people understood that?

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 09:03PM

pone2012 wrote: »

The message to take from that was to think about the action said person is going to commit, Surely people understood that?

Presumably they did. It doesn't reduce how absurd a statement it is though.

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 09:20PM

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

Most of the people on this thread know what the boy was trying to say, their issue is not with the underlying message but how it was communicated. As another poster said earlier criticising a person's views is not in itself a personal attack on that person. No one has insulted the boy or been condescending they have simply stated that the boy should not have been given the opportunity to speak about issues he clearly knows very little about on national television.

Lyra I've already pointed out just one poster, well, another who I initially took issue with when they too assumed they knew all about suicide, mental illness depression, when all either poster and others have, is a bare minimum grasp understanding of their own mental illness.

Fcuk me even the normally rational Odysseus surprised me by linking posters to the DSM and telling them if they identify with any of the symptoms they may just be suffering from a mental illness. And nobody pulled up a mental health professional for possibly fostering hypochondria in an unknown audience. Odysseus themselves should have known better that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, a lot of it, can be fatal. Odysseus has years of education and experience in the field of mental health, yet expects people to be able to interpret the DSM from a quick five minute google search.

All too busy ripping apart a 16 year old's opinion that was aimed at young people, not once in the independent article was the word depression mentioned, and when he said "sleep on it", he meant for young people with suicidal thoughts to hold off on the knee jerk reaction to commit suicide when they're going through a rough patch, as distinct from going through depression.

Despair, is not depression, but posters here who have acknowledged that they suffer from depression, chose to interpret his words to suit their frame of mind. It's an interesting conundrum for anyone who says that the perception of a mentally ill person is their reality. It may be semantic to some, but for others it's a damn important distinction to make, that a mentally ill person's reality is colored by their perception.

haka · 07-04-2013 09:21PM

I have been very very very depressed more than once before and suicidal.

I do not have any issue or conflict with this young mans views on suicide. Surely he deserves an opinion. If i was in his shoes i would feel the exact same way. He views are selfless and genuine.

Being susceptible to bouts of depression is a genetic pre-disposition and hopefully soon society will understand this .

07-04-2013 09:25PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Despair, is not depression, but posters here who have acknowledged that they suffer from depression, chose to interpret his words to suit their frame of mind. It's an interesting conundrum for anyone who says that the perception of a mentally ill person is their reality. It may be semantic to some, but for others it's a damn important distinction to make, that a mentally ill person's reality is colored by their perception.

Why?

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 09:28PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

not once in the independent article was the word depression mentioned

It was. It mentions his campaign is about suicide and depression.

In common discussion suicide and depression go hand in hand. If his campaign is about 'impulse suicides' and not 'depressive suicides' that would presumably be clarified. But it wasn't (which begs the question; how do you know what he meant?)

Lyra Fangs · 07-04-2013 09:38PM

Seachmall wrote: »

It was. It mentions his campaign is about suicide and depression.

In common discussion suicide and depression go hand in hand. If his campaign is about 'impulse suicides' and not 'depressive suicides' that would presumably be clarified. But it wasn't (which begs the question; how do you know what he meant?)

This 100%. If you are able to interpret his words as you see fit, that is, a message of hope and encouragement then we should be able to present our take of his message which to many people on this thread comes across as shaming people who consider suicide.

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 09:45PM

Seachmall wrote: »

It was. It mentions his campaign is about suicide and depression.

In common discussion suicide and depression go hand in hand. If his campaign is about 'impulse suicides' and not 'depressive suicides' that would presumably be clarified. But it wasn't (which begs the question; how do you know what he meant?)

I see Seachmall you edited your post to include the bolded bit above, possibly because you double checked back over the article like I did just to make sure you checked the article mentions the word depression. Quelle surprise- it doesn't.

Donal Walsh will continue his campaign to end suicide on The Saturday Night Show this weekend.

Caitlin McBride – 05 April 2013

Donal Walsh will be highlighting his campaign to end suicide on The Saturday Night Show tomorrow

Only in common discussion amongst people suffering from mental illness is suicide considered to go hand in hand with mental illness. You presumed it should be clarified. I didn't assume anything, I read the article that says he is aiming his message at young people in the depths of despair, not adults suffering from mental illness as has been alluded to in this thread.

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 09:50PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I see Seachmall you edited your post to include the bolded bit above, possibly because you double checked back over the article like I did just to make sure you checked the article mentions the word depression. Quelle surprise- it doesn't.

Eh,

He is determined to raise awareness about those battling suicidal thoughts and depression.

I'm assuming we're talking about the same article, this is from the one linked in the OP.

Only in common discussion amongst people suffering from mental illness is suicide considered to go hand in hand with mental illness. You presumed it should be clarified. I didn't assume anything, I read the article that says he is aiming his message at young people in the depths of despair, not adults suffering from mental illness as has been alluded to in this thread.

He mentions people in "financial despair" which would suggest adults.

And again, it explicitly mentions his campaign is about suicide and depression.

Odysseus · 07-04-2013 09:50PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Lyra I've already pointed out just one poster, well, another who I initially took issue with when they too assumed they knew all about suicide, mental illness depression, when all either poster and others have, is a bare minimum grasp understanding of their own mental illness.

Fcuk me even the normally rational Odysseus surprised me by linking posters to the DSM and telling them if they identify with any of the symptoms they may just be suffering from a mental illness. And nobody pulled up a mental health professional for possibly fostering hypochondria in an unknown audience. Odysseus themselves should have known better that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, a lot of it, can be fatal. Odysseus has years of education and experience in the field of mental health, yet expects people to be able to interpret the DSM from a quick five minute google search.

I think no body pulled me up; because in fact I was responding to tomthetank's questions and request for information as oppessed to fostering hypochondria.

Judging by the thanks I got off tom I think I may have given him the information he was looking for, though only he can clarify that.

You misssed the part when I advised against self-diagnosis then? Are you saying we should not allow non-professionals to read the ICD-10.

If you want to learn about depression or any of the other various disorders it is not a bad place to start. Since you are reading it for your onw educational purposes; there should be no issue.

It you take information and use it in a inappropriate manner, well, no one but the person who misuses the information is responsible for that.

Such when you goggle depressive episode you get the same criteria and wiki gives you links to both texts in the first line. So really tom got no more that what he would have got if he goggled it himself.

In the context of this thread I have no problem suggesting such resources if a person is interested and wants to learn about a topic or even an individual disorder.

Czarcasm · 07-04-2013 09:54PM

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Why?

This is why-

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

This 100%. If you are able to interpret his words as you see fit, that is, a message of hope and encouragement then we should be able to present our take of his message which to many people on this thread comes across as shaming people who consider suicide.

I never said anyone couldn't interpret his opinion any way they wanted. Of course they can. But condescension and and a dismissive attitude doesn't foster discussion, it only reinforces the negative perception of those suffering from a mental illness. That's why I said I haven't learned anything from 30 pages of back and forth bitching and people waving their e-penis' about like it's a competition to see who can pìss higher up the wall.

Seachmall · 07-04-2013 09:59PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

people waving their e-penis' about

For the record; mines bigger than yours.

07-04-2013 10:06PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

This is why-

I never said anyone couldn't interpret his opinion any way they wanted. Of course they can. But condescension and and a dismissive attitude doesn't foster discussion, it only reinforces the negative perception of those suffering from a mental illness. That's why I said I haven't learned anything from 30 pages of back and forth bitching and people waving their e-penis' about like it's a competition to see who can pìss higher up the wall.

That's how you're seeing it. That's how you seem to see a lot of posts on here. What it looks like to me is that YOU have a dismissive attitude of anything you don't like. Of course people are heated - it's a discussion forum about an emotional topic. What have YOU added of value? You came on to the thread and complained about it.

My flatmate has read a lot of the thread and has found it extremely enlightening. He would have previously been of the 'ahh pull yourself together' school of thought but he's now gained a whole new perspective. We watched the excellent video of the lecture about depression together. He doesn't see it the way you do at all.

Turtwig · 07-04-2013 10:09PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's why I said I haven't learned anything from 30 pages of back and forth bitching .

As far AH threads go, this one has been well, less AH-ish. So :
30 Pages back?:eek:
All I can go back is a maximum of 13.

Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

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