Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

jigglypuffstuff

General General wrote: »

Hang on... did you edit & replace 'the mentally ill of this forum' with 'some of the people who say they are mentally ill in this forum'?

Nice.

That's exactly what i did. Due to the fact that many of them have also taken the words of the boy in a positive outlook.

Problem?

General General

pone2012 wrote: »

That's exactly what i did. Due to the fact that many of them have also taken the words of the boy in a positive outlook.

Problem?

No. No. Not for me.

How's the assignment coming along?

Good stuff.

jigglypuffstuff

Czarcasm wrote: »

I can only yet again ensure you that I haven't come on here to be insulting to anyone. Up to page 30 it was one poster to another essentially saying "you know nawtheeng!". That wasn't a discussion, and when one poster shared their experiences of suicide, depression and mental illness, they were STILL told they know nothing.

Ah you see the reason for this is that the person in question clearly has a wealth of experience which can be applied to all cases. anyone who challenges that or doesnt agree with the views clearly hasnt a clue, despite their own experience and education. Its very rational indeed...

jimmycrackcorm

Having watched the show I can't believe how many people thanked the op. But this is after hours I suppose.

K-9

General General wrote: »

Hang on... did you edit & replace 'the mentally ill of this forum' with 'some of the people who say they are mentally ill in this forum'?

Nice.

Mod: I think the poster wanted to correct a poor choice of words, not saying the edited correction mind is greatly worded either!

I'd suggest that posters take a step back before they post, it's a naturally subjective subject but it is better to view it objectively, look at the overall point made, rather than give knee jerk responses.

Czarcasm

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

I don't get the point you're making with this. He refers to financial despair as something which might drive someone to suicide. Even if he is talking about teenagers I think it would take a little bit more than a lack of phone credit!

You'd be... I don't know, maybe you wouldn't be surprised, depends on your experience and your perspective I suppose, just like the people that look at those people who look at people who commit suicide and think "Why?", because they can't think of what they might perceive the person had a reason for committing suicide.

Suicide and depression, more generally mental illness, go hand in hand.

No they don't, and that's the whole point of where I'm coming from. A person who commits suicide or has even thought about committing suicide, does not necessarily have to be suffering from any form of mental illness or depression. The two shouldn't be perceived to go hand in hand. There are many people who suffer from mental illness and depression who do not have suicidal ideation. That's the black and white popular misconception, and it was another poster who was admonished for their black and white view and told the issues were far more complex than that. At least I understand that much already.

It's pointless to try to separate the two.

I hope I've demonstrated above why it's important that we DO separate the two.

Therefore his campaign will focus on both.

I haven't watched the interview yet, so I don't know did the teenager himself make a correlation between both mental illness and suicide, but from the article it was clear that only the journalist or the editor included that assumption, in one line, in an article that made numerous references only to suicide amongst young people in despair.

Seachmall

Czarcasm wrote: »

I haven't watched the interview yet, so I don't know did the teenager himself make a correlation between both mental illness and suicide, but from the article it was clear that only the journalist or the editor included that assumption, in one line, in an article that made numerous references only to suicide amongst young people in despair.

Earlier you criticised others for interpreting the article in their own way and now you're blatantly dismissing an explicit statement in the article that contradicts your own interpretation of it despite it being your only source.

But here's another source,

"They think they have a problem and that this may be a solution. It does make me angry, I'm not going to lie about it. But, like, I've nothing against people with mental illness or anything like that. But these people have to realise that there is help everywhere."

How will you choose to interpret that?



Also, he conveys his point much better in the video than was reported in the Indo article.

Lyra Fangs

Czarcasm wrote: »

No they don't, and that's the whole point of where I'm coming from. A person who commits suicide or has even thought about committing suicide, does not necessarily have to be suffering from any form of mental illness or depression. The two shouldn't be perceived to go hand in hand. There are many people who suffer from mental illness and depression who do not have suicidal ideation. That's the black and white popular misconception, and it was another poster who was admonished for their black and white view and told the issues were far more complex than that. At least I understand that much already.

But they should. Being depressed or more generally speaking having a mental illness is one of the most common causes of suicide. In the case of depression it doesn't have to be a long term mental illness but a major life event (such as the death of a love one/redundancy/financial difficulties etc) could have brought on the depression. Also I never implied that all depressed people suffer from suicidal ideation but it is a symptom of many mental illnesses.

I haven't watched the interview yet, so I don't know did the teenager himself make a correlation between both mental illness and suicide, but from the article it was clear that only the journalist or the editor included that assumption, in one line, in an article that made numerous references only to suicide amongst young people in despair.

From wikipedia (not the most credible source I know but still) "Suicide is often committed out of despair, the cause of which is frequently attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, alcoholism, or drug abuse or major life events". Is it not plausible that the boy intends to target all people contemplating suicide with his campaign?

Smidge

I have just watched the interview again.

In the whole interview he speaks about the issue at hand for a small portion of it.
One of the things I missed on first watch is that he mentions his fate and God a number of times.
He says that if he can be used as a symbol or beacon(by God)to stop young people from taking their own lives then he feels that his death will be worth it.

So we are back to this old chestnut.
The church says the suicide is wrong and this lad has decided to become a trumpet to herald this message.

He spoke very well about his own struggle with his illness but his anger at his perception of young people who are throwing their lives away because they didn't look for a bit of help(his words, not mine)has floored me.

He gave a simplistic, dismissive and uniformed view about suicide and has understandably offended a lot of families out there who have lost children to this illness.

I think we would all do well to remember that it is not only his parents who will suffer the loss of a child.
Thousands of families in Ireland have lost children/young adults to suicide and they do not need this castigation.

As well meant as it may be

BlackFoot

Well I have been following this discussion since it started and there has been some very interesting posts that I could say show similar experiences and examples as to my own. I do take exception to the young man’s opinions only because it has been broadcasted nationally in which I find to be in bad taste.


I myself have been trying to deal with depression for the past 17yrs (still only 29).Depression hit me at an early staged in life, early enough that I couldn’t put a word to what I was feeling or explain why. The first time I really could comprehend what suicide really meant I thought it was a logical solution to how I felt. The idea appealed to me in some strange way I can’t really say why but it did it just somehow made sense. I have spent the past 17yrs thinking on a daily basis about suicide yet have not attempted to kill myself. I can only speculate as to why I haven’t tried it and I put it down to my own personal circumstances. At the heights of my depression I can simple say that I wasn’t confronted and backed into a corner. Which ironically was due to family not understanding what was going on. Apparently I was just being lazy staying in bed and never going out for nearly 3yrs. I don’t blame them but I do wonder why no doctor was ever called in I can only guess that having no understanding of the situation or what to do left them confused or shamed in some way. By the time I understood what was happening myself depression what so rooted in me it controlled my decision making, forming bad habits and shutting down connections to people.


I should make this clear before I go into this topic any further in detail that this young man is facing some tough times and cooping better than most would in a similar situation. I think his actions of raising money for charities is very noble and he deserves respect for spending what time he has left in this selfless way. I believe that what he says he believes in but I do not see anything that suggest he has fully grasps what depression is more specifically chronic depression. I have no issue with the boy but feel those who should know better should at least have tried to explain it to him. I know when I was that age my views where very radical black and white full of passion and believe but little real understanding.

The main issues I take with his comments may be because of my own experiences and how such a lack of understanding (mine as well) has led to depression being such a dominant problem in my life. I didn’t say I was depressed to anyone until I was around 21 to which the response was disbelieve I didn’t know and left my father in shock. It was a very strange situation I was sort of crawling out of my depression at the time haven been bed ridden for nearly 3yrs (Still had my 3yrs hair growth and facial fluff) .I remember straight away realising he doesn’t get it or just doesn’t understand what to do. What did happen was the next day it’s as if I didn’t say anything and his lazy son just isn’t so lazy anymore.


Up until I first admitted it I was always so sure that it would just be dismissed as some other small irrelevant issue "cop on with yourself”, “just choose to stop it" or my personal favourite "depression doesn’t exists". On the outside I looked normal no broken bones no cuts bruises so what’s the problem I have no right to complain? I don’t think I spoke another word until a couple of years later when I secretly sought help from the local GP he prescribed some pills and suggested some therapy I quickly made excuses and didn’t return for another 2 years during another low point. I went to a few therapy sessions in which I simply sat and talked about myself mainly for the whole hour while the councillor listened and asked me some questions along the way. I have never spoken so much about myself ever for so long it was a massive relive for a few months. I quickly made excuses and didn’t return to finish all my sessions or continue my meds (pattern here) as I fell deeper into my depression one week.


So what’s my point well sort of forgot what I was going to say along the way lol

Maybe it was something like this…
Those who don’t even understand the very basic concepts of what depression is should at least try too for your own sake and for your loved ones you never know they could be suffering in silence .Tragedy can strike anyone at any time throughout their lives and leave a wake of despair behind. Some people can cope better than others but not all of us can cope the same.

Czarcasm

Seachmall wrote: »

Earlier you criticised others for interpreting the article in their own way and now you're blatantly dismissing an explicit statement in the article that contradicts your own interpretation of it despite it being your only source.

No I'm not criticising anyone for the way they interpreted the article in their own way, I don't know, am I criticising? (rhetorical question meaning I'm questioning is criticising the right word to use.), I was pointing out the error in their misinterpretation of the teenagers campaign. The source for that statement was not the teenager himself, and until I watch the video (which I will do now in a minute once I reply to Lyra's comments), I do not have the full context of the statement underneath the video. Other posters were quick to jump on the word depression, I'm just not as quick to do so is all.

Lyra Fangs

Misinterpreted a post...it's late

Smidge

Another thing I took issue with in the interview was the remark between Brendan and Donal was that this type of thing wasn't around 20 years ago and that it is somewhat of a new "fad".

My family member took their own life 18 years ago this year.

Suicide is NOT a new thing, we are just more open to talk about it now.
This kind of misinformation can only push mental health and suicide back into the closet.

General General

Smidge wrote: »

Another thing I took issue with in the interview was the remark between Brendan and Donal was that this type of thing wasn't around 20 years ago and that it is somewhat of a new "fad".

My family member took their own life 18 years ago this year.

Suicide is NOT a new thing, we are just more open to talk about it now.
This kind of misinformation can only push mental health and suicide back into the closet.

Agreed. Was it not the case that death by suicide meant that one could not be buried on consecrated ground? Maybe I am wrong. However, there was a lot of pressure in some parts of the country, in some instances anyway, to at least not talk about a suicide, if not outright deny it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Czarcasm

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

But they should. Being depressed or more generally speaking having a mental illness is one of the most common causes of suicide.

There's a whole spectrum of mental illnesses which have no correlation with suicide. That's why it's impossible almost without someone leaving a suicide note, for other people to rationalize it with themselves why a person would commit suicide. By that same token yet again, there are many people who are suffering from a mental illness and even chronic depression, who lack the ability to commit suicide. They see it as their only way out, but some people who are chronically depressed lack the mental capacity even to commit suicide.

In the case of depression it doesn't have to be a long term mental illness but a major life event (such as the death of a love one/redundancy/financial difficulties etc) could have brought on the depression.

Yes, a shock event can trigger depression, just as easily as it can trigger the person to contemplate suicide. Suicide is the knee jerk reaction that can be acted upon immediately, it doesn't mean they are depressed. Depression can happen in the long term without the person even realising it when they think they are coping, and that's why so many people don't recognise that they may be suffering from depression, and even more are unwilling to acknowledge it, preferring instead to muddle on thinking "it'll go away if I just keep my mind occupied".

Also I never implied that all depressed people suffer from suicidal ideation but it is a symptom of many mental illnesses.

It's a symptom of some mental illnesses, but it's not necessarily an indicator of one.

From wikipedia (not the most credible source I know but still) "Suicide is often committed out of despair, the cause of which is frequently attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, alcoholism, or drug abuse or major life events". Is it not plausible that the boy intends to target all people contemplating suicide with his campaign?

Well it's certainly plausible, anything is plausible, he could well be also targeting adults with his campaign, but I haven't, even after watching the video, seen any evidence of that yet. I've also not seen where he has included people suffering from mental illness in his campaign. In fact after watching the video I think his campaign is not about people suffering from mental illness at all, and that his comment was merely a qualifying statement before people assumed he was targeting people suffering from a mental illness.

Smidge

General General wrote: »

Agreed. Was it not the case that death by suicide meant that one could not be buried on consecrated ground? Maybe I am wrong. However, there was a lot of pressure in some parts of the country, in some instances anyway, to at least not talk about a suicide, if not outright deny it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Thanks for that:)

I found it an unnecessary part of the interview to bring religion and faith into it when talking about suicide.

IF the lad had spoken about his faith in dealing with his dx and only about that, fair enough. If that what helps him through this horrible time, good for him that he has his faith.

But please do not bring faith and religion into the same debate as suicide.
It has no place there.
If you read through the comments on the indo(?)article that he wrote it is clear that the religious viewpoint on suicide is sadly alive and well.

Not to go into too much personal detail but my family member who died was not only related to me and we were very close but we were friends.

If people out there think that anyone who is so far gone that they take their own life just needs a "bit of talking to", well these people really need to sit down and have a word with themselves.

My family member was in and out of mental health facilities, pumped full of every medication imaginable and they still committed suicide.
Do people think that WE didn't talk to each other either?

Not a day goes by that my friend and relative does not enter my mind.
I wonder, just as I assume Donal's family will in years to come, what my relative would be like now?
Would they still have the same wicked sense of humour?
Would they still like "Wham"???:o
Would they still disappear for days on end and have everyone worried and when they returned, have very little recollection of where they had been?
Would we still be waiting for a late night phone call that something had gone wrong?

As Donal said he has anger for them.

I don't have anger.

I have understanding and sadness at a loss.

Czarcasm

Smidge wrote: »

Another thing I took issue with in the interview was the remark between Brendan and Donal was that this type of thing wasn't around 20 years ago and that it is somewhat of a new "fad".

My family member took their own life 18 years ago this year.

Suicide is NOT a new thing, we are just more open to talk about it now.
This kind of misinformation can only push mental health and suicide back into the closet.

I might have a completely different take on where Donal might be coming from with regard to just suicide among young people who "think they have problems" and what he means when he says it wasn't a thing that was around 20 years ago. There is a certain idealism in suicide being fostered among young people around Donal's age. This is being encouraged almost by young people themselves and they graduate towards the ideology which is reinforced by what they witness in popular culture. Suicide and self harm has become especially increasingly prevalent amongst young teenage girls, and teenage boys who struggle with their sexuality.

Society has made great strides in some ways in recent decades, but in some ways it's been both a good thing, and a bad thing.

I watched the video and one of the most annoying things for me was Brendan O' Connor talking to Donal like he a six year old, not a sixteen year old. It just felt like the whole interview was scripted heavily as both tried to remember their lines- Brendan O' Connor trying and failing miserably to sound contrite about this whole Lord's message nonsense, and Donal coming off like he was Jesus, dying to save his peers so to speak. He did come across in the interview like a martyr, and I think whoever arranged his appearance and interview on the show was badly advised, possibly encouraged by RTE production staff that encouraged him "to get his message out there and that an appearance on the show would help his campaign".


Terrible decision all round IMO, and I personally think anyone suffering from mental illness or indeed chronic depression, suicidal ideologies, would struggle to take Donal seriously, let alone given the show he appeared on to gain exposure for his campaign.

Smidge

Czarcasm wrote: »

I might have a completely different take on where Donal might be coming from with regard to just suicide among young people who "think they have problems" and what he means when he says it wasn't a thing that was around 20 years ago. There is a certain idealism in suicide being fostered among young people around Donal's age. This is being encouraged almost by young people themselves and they graduate towards the ideology which is reinforced by what they witness in popular culture. Suicide and self harm has become especially increasingly prevalent amongst young teenage girls, and teenage boys who struggle with their sexuality.

Society has made great strides in some ways in recent decades, but in some ways it's been both a good thing, and a bad thing.

I watched the video and one of the most annoying things for me was Brendan O' Connor talking to Donal like he a six year old, not a sixteen year old. It just felt like the whole interview was scripted heavily as both tried to remember their lines- Brendan O' Connor trying and failing miserably to sound contrite about this whole Lord's message nonsense, and Donal coming off like he was Jesus, dying to save his peers so to speak. He did come across in the interview like a martyr, and I think whoever arranged his appearance and interview on the show was badly advised, possibly encouraged by RTE production staff that encouraged him "to get his message out there and that an appearance on the show would help his campaign".


Terrible decision all round IMO, and I personally think anyone suffering from mental illness or indeed chronic depression, suicidal ideologies, would struggle to take Donal seriously, let alone given the show he appeared on to gain exposure for his campaign.

Contrary to what some of the posters on here would have you believe about posters like me who did not agree with the programme, I feel very sorry for Donal.
I feel he should never have been allowed to open himself up like that on national television or in a national newspaper.
He is in a very raw, emotional and vulnerable place and did come across a bit as a martyr(which I'm sure wasn't his intention but there it is all the same).

With regard to what went on 20 years ago, well what is gone is gone.
These are most certainly different times than what I grew up in.
But how can we judge young people today and what makes them commit suicide?
Different times, different problems.
Same old heartbreak at suicide nonetheless.

PickledLime

So, to sum up:

People feel greatly towards someone so, so young being diagnosed with a terminal illness.

His words are meant well and he (like everyone of us) is entitled to his own opinion.

The national broadcaster shouldn't be giving him a platform.

People's understanding of depression in this country is poor. If anything, this lad's appearance on the telly has (within the microcosm of boards at least) opened up a debate about what depression actually is, which is absolutely what is needed.

Wibbs

Smidge wrote: »

Another thing I took issue with in the interview was the remark between Brendan and Donal was that this type of thing wasn't around 20 years ago and that it is somewhat of a new "fad".

My family member took their own life 18 years ago this year.

Suicide is NOT a new thing, we are just more open to talk about it now.
This kind of misinformation can only push mental health and suicide back into the closet.

Oh certainly S and when I heard that myself I thought WTF?? Then I thought back twenty odd years ago in my own life and there did seem to be a lot less of it among teenagers/young adults/my peers. Certainly less than what folks here appear to have experienced. Self harming? Never encountered that until much later in my life. Depression and other mental illnesses? Yep I knew a few and they were very "obvious" and contrary to the "twas the dark ages back then" they got treatment. Thinking back were there hidden sufferers? Yea I can think of a couple alright, but again not to the degree it seems to be today. Yes I did know people who died by their own hand(nearly all men), but again they were older. I did encounter a couple of "cries for help" type attempts(nearly all women), but these were also small in number. Now the argument could be put forward that this was hidden back in the day and yep there's an element of that alright, but with kids of school age it's kinda hard to hide a young guy or gal not coming back to school of a monday and like I said I never had experience of that growing up.

IzzyWizzy

Smidge wrote: »

Another thing I took issue with in the interview was the remark between Brendan and Donal was that this type of thing wasn't around 20 years ago and that it is somewhat of a new "fad".

My family member took their own life 18 years ago this year.

Suicide is NOT a new thing, we are just more open to talk about it now.
This kind of misinformation can only push mental health and suicide back into the closet.

That was one of the most offensive parts of the interview for me.

Smidge wrote: »

Thanks for that:)


As Donal said he has anger for them.

I don't have anger.

I have understanding and sadness at a loss.

Same here. That's why I said I thought he was coming from a place of bitterness (which is totally understandable). The last thing I'd feel for someone whose life was so grim that they felt they had to end it all would be anger.

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh certainly S and when I heard that myself I thought WTF?? Then I thought back twenty odd years ago in my own life and there did seem to be a lot less of it among teenagers/young adults/my peers. Certainly less than what folks here appear to have experienced. Self harming? Never encountered that until much later in my life. Depression and other mental illnesses? Yep I knew a few and they were very "obvious" and contrary to the "twas the dark ages back then" they got treatment. Thinking back were there hidden sufferers? Yea I can think of a couple alright, but again not to the degree it seems to be today. Yes I did know people who died by their own hand(nearly all men), but again they were older. I did encounter a couple of "cries for help" type attempts(nearly all women), but these were also small in number. Now the argument could be put forward that this was hidden back in the day and yep there's an element of that alright, but with kids of school age it's kinda hard to hide a young guy or gal not coming back to school of a monday and like I said I never had experience of that growing up.

I think it's just more socially acceptable to admit that you're depressed today.

starlings

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

That was one of the most offensive parts of the interview for me.



Same here. That's why I said I thought he was coming from a place of bitterness (which is totally understandable). The last thing I'd feel for someone whose life was so grim that they felt they had to end it all would be anger.



I think it's just more socially acceptable to admit that you're depressed today.

I think there's a difference between feeling sympathetic towards a person who is suicidal (where there is a glimmer of hope that they might recover and live) and how one feels immediately after the blunt fact of suicide. Experience and dread of the latter will almost certainly colour the former.

Yet everyone grieves in their own way. And they will react differently to each bereavement, depending on the circumstances and their relationship with the deceased. If you allow, as I hope you will, for the bereaved to feel their own pain rather than expecting them to empathise all the time with the dead or those who are suicidal, you'll find a complex mess of anger, sadness, regret and love. Sometimes all at once.

You might not feel anger toward someone who committed suicide, but that shouldn't censure this feeling for others and in other cases. I have felt this - watching a distraught, screaming, 7-year old cousin being coaxed into the church for her father's funeral, I thought 'how could you do that to her?' and carried this anger for some time.

In another instance I had to rush 200km in the middle of the night because someone close to me had taken an overdose. I seemed to be travelling on the fuel of an angry thought: "if he's not dead, I'll fúcking kill him." (he wasn't dead and I am glad of that, and was glad as soon as I let the events settle down.)

So, in a way, a refusal to allow anger as part of a necessary coping mechanism is as unkind and unhelpful as the dismissal of the depth and complexity of the feelings of the mentally ill.

IzzyWizzy

starlings wrote: »

I think there's a difference between feeling sympathetic towards a person who is suicidal (where there is a glimmer of hope that they might recover and live) and how one feels immediately after the blunt fact of suicide. Experience and dread of the latter will almost certainly colour the former.

Yet everyone grieves in their own way. And they will react differently to each bereavement, depending on the circumstances and their relationship with the deceased. If you allow, as I hope you will, for the bereaved to feel their own pain rather than expecting them to empathise all the time with the dead or those who are suicidal, you'll find a complex mess of anger, sadness, regret and love. Sometimes all at once.

You might not feel anger toward someone who committed suicide, but that shouldn't censure this feeling for others and in other cases. I have felt this - watching a distraught, screaming, 7-year old cousin being coaxed into the church for her father's funeral, I thought 'how could you do that to her?' and carried this anger for some time.

In another instance I had to rush 200km in the middle of the night because someone close to me had taken an overdose. I seemed to be travelling on the fuel of an angry thought: "if he's not dead, I'll fúcking kill him." (he wasn't dead and I am glad of that, and was glad as soon as I let the events settle down.)

So, in a way, a refusal to allow anger as part of a necessary coping mechanism is as unkind and unhelpful as the dismissal of the depth and complexity of the feelings of the mentally ill.

That's not the guy's point, though. Anger when someone close you to has committed suicide is totally understandable. He's angry that other people 'choose' to die when he has no choice in the matter. Not the same thing at all.

Wibbs

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I think it's just more socially acceptable to admit that you're depressed today.

Agreed, however I would also contend that some and I emphasise some who "admit" it are buying into a societal meme and in some this phase gets medicalised.

But again harking back into my past, the number of suicidal/depressed/self harming teens was smaller in my experience. I've had this convo with other middle aged farts like myself(inc a couple in the health trade) and we all seem to have a similar enough experience. Like I say in my school or many hundreds of kids not a single example, nor even rumour(and kids are right gossipy buggers) of a teen suicide. A couple of kids who had full on mental breaks alright(schizophrenia as it turned out), a cuple who were treated for depression and yep a few who looking back today I'd say were depressed(and untreated), but that really was pretty much it. Nothing like the near epidemic I read about today.

Funny enough I'd also say my generation was generally less socially isolated. Ironic given today we've never been so connected, with so many avenues to talk that we couldn't have imagined back in the early 80's.







Not unlike the rise of allergies actually. Growing up I knew two kids in my whole year who had asthma. If I was 18 today I'd reckon I could conjure up a dozen with it.

starlings

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

That's not the guy's point, though. Anger when someone close you to has committed suicide is totally understandable. He's angry that other people 'choose' to die when he has no choice in the matter. Not the same thing at all.

and that is why I wrote that one is coloured by the other.

But I wasn't referring to the interview; I was referring to your post in which you said you would never feel anger. And I wonder if that colours your attitude that complexity of feeling and perception is your kingdom and no one else's.

IzzyWizzy

Wibbs wrote: »

Agreed, however I would also contend that some and I emphasise some who "admit" it are buying into a societal meme and in some this phase gets medicalised.

But again harking back into my past, the number of suicidal/depressed/self harming teens was smaller in my experience. I've had this convo with other middle aged farts like myself(inc a couple in the health trade) and we all seem to have a similar enough experience. Like I say in my school or many hundreds of kids not a single example, nor even rumour(and kids are right gossipy buggers) of a teen suicide. A couple of kids who had full on mental breaks alright(schizophrenia as it turned out), a cuple who were treated for depression and yep a few who looking back today I'd say were depressed(and untreated), but that really was pretty much it. Nothing like the near epidemic I read about today.

Funny enough I'd also say my generation was generally less socially isolated. Ironic given today we've never been so connected, with so many avenues to talk that we couldn't have imagined back in the early 80's.







Not unlike the rise of allergies actually. Growing up I knew two kids in my whole year who had asthma. If I was 18 today I'd reckon I could conjure up a dozen with it.

I guess what bothers me about the whole thing is your man insinuating that because it didn't 'exist' 20 years ago, that it's not real. Perhaps there WAS less mental illness back then, but it doesn't mean the people suffering from it today are just trying to be trendy. It's like when some older people talk about allergies and mock the 'no peanut' rule that exists in some school because in their day, nobody had peanut allergies. As if a kid whose throat swells up from going near one is somehow just being a crybaby. I think it would help a lot if older people, instead of insinuating that the youth of today are a load of whiny wet blankets, could think about the reasons why mental and physical issues seem to be on the rise.

VinLieger

As horrible as it is what theis kid is going through he has no idea what hes taking about. This is exactly what suicide prevention does not need, openly calling people who already feel alone and distressed selfish.

IzzyWizzy

starlings wrote: »

and that is why I wrote that one is coloured by the other.

But I wasn't referring to the interview; I was referring to your post in which you said you would never feel anger. And I wonder if that colours your attitude that complexity of feeling and perception is your kingdom and no one else's.

I meant for people in general, not someone I actually knew. I think feeling anger towards strangers who kill themselves because they have a 'choice' you don't is incredibly harsh. We're starting to go around in circles again now, but the crux of the matter for me is that he's trying to compare two totally different situations. He wants to live because he has a lot to live for. Other people want to die because they don't (or feel like they don't). Telling people they're lucky they're not him and they should appreciate would they have is not really helping anything or anyone.

opinion guy

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

That's not the guy's point, though. Anger when someone close you to has committed suicide is totally understandable. He's angry that other people 'choose' to die when he has no choice in the matter. Not the same thing at all.

Well that is an interesting point. Why did he chose to take this on as an issue ??
I noted that Brendan O'Connor did not ask him if he had friends or family who had committed suicide. I suspect there is a story there. He didn't randomly pick this cause out of the sky.

opinion guy

Wibbs wrote: »

Agreed, however I would also contend that some and I emphasise some who "admit" it are buying into a societal meme and in some this phase gets medicalised.

But again harking back into my past, the number of suicidal/depressed/self harming teens was smaller in my experience. I've had this convo with other middle aged farts like myself(inc a couple in the health trade) and we all seem to have a similar enough experience. Like I say in my school or many hundreds of kids not a single example, nor even rumour(and kids are right gossipy buggers) of a teen suicide. A couple of kids who had full on mental breaks alright(schizophrenia as it turned out), a cuple who were treated for depression and yep a few who looking back today I'd say were depressed(and untreated), but that really was pretty much it. Nothing like the near epidemic I read about today.

Funny enough I'd also say my generation was generally less socially isolated. Ironic given today we've never been so connected, with so many avenues to talk that we couldn't have imagined back in the early 80's.

Wibbs I knew of stuff like this in the 90's and heard rumours of more stuff. These kinds of things are definitely not new. I think the difference is that social media has given it a transparency that wasn't there before.