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Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

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    #242
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users Posts: 4,411 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    P_1 wrote: »
    In a way suicide could be considered as a person having the ultimate control over their body. Is it selfish? I guess it depends on who's perspective you look at it from. If a person decides to end their own life then who is anybody to judge that person really.

    Absolutely ludicrous.


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    #243
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    It's ridiculous to even compare these two situations.


    Yes you are correct, because one is an illness which can be managed in most cases with the correct help, and the other is an absolute death sentence which you can do nothing about....


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    #244
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    CaraMay wrote: »
    Shame on those of you who have abused that young man. Look at his face on tv and you should have nothing but sympathy for him. He is a good guy and thinking of others ahead of himself.

    Who is abusing him? I do feel sympathy for him. I'm sure his intentions are very good. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone. He's just very naive and misguided and doesn't understand the first thing about mental illness. Shame on RTE for putting him on TV.


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    #245
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Lord Trollington wrote: »
    Absolutely ludicrous.

    How so?

    At the end of the day it is your life and only one person should have the power to chose what to do with it.


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    #246
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    You can dress it up all you want, you're still going to be ignorant. It's ridiculous to even compare these two situations. You just don't get it.

    Ignorant?

    You're the one who is placing depression on a par with terminal cancer. While it is a terrible affliction it's not on the same graph.

    I've seen the chemo and the radio wards in this country jam packed with patients. I've watched someone whither away and succumb to terminal cancer, it took everything from them from their hair to their dignity, and it wasn't painless.

    Few things terrify me more these days, and I would wish it on no one. Yet we have eijets in this very thread say they'd rather have cancer than depression? Yes that angers me but it's really just a fool with no experience of either.


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    #247
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Yes you are correct, because one is an illness which can be managed in most cases with the correct help, and the other is an absolute death sentence which you can do nothing about....

    I have known quite a few terminally ill people who weren't arsed about dying and didn't put up much of a fight. The people who really want to live are those who have things to live for - supportive family, a circle of friends, interests. People who really enjoy their lives. Of course such people want to keep living, that's logical. Why isn't it logical for you that someone with a sh*tty, miserable life who can't feel any emotions and sees no reason to keep going would want to die?


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    #248
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    I hope everyone here who throws the claims around that this kid knows nothing studies psychology . if not then you are just as clueless as you claim this young man to be

    Because if you think suffering from a mental illness makes you understand mental health you are most definitely wrong.

    Its already been stated personal experience does not equate to understanding


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    #249
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    P_1 wrote: »
    In a way suicide could be considered as a person having the ultimate control over their body. Is it selfish? I guess it depends on who's perspective you look at it from. If a person decides to end their own life then who is anybody to judge that person really.

    Why should they not be judged? People get judged for far more innocuous and menial **** every day.

    How about when people with severe clinical depression or other mental difficulties decide to murder their own children before killing themselves? Should they not be judged... should it not be discussed for the fear of upsetting a few people?


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    #250
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    That was a powerful interview. V impressive young man. Life is short.

    However you can never know what goes on in a person's head and what tools they have to deal with it.


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    #251
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    What came across was his attempts to make his passing as painless (if at all possible) for the people he leaves behind. He knows how devastating this will be for them and is pointing out that others can save their family and friends from utter devastation by not committing suicide. Makes sense to me.


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    #252
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    I haven't read the whole thread but I'll give my opinion anyways. Depression is like a cancer of the soul and left untreated, it can be terminal. You wouldn't call someone selfish who got diagnosed with a terminal disease but that seems to be because it is a physical illness.

    While I can understand this young man's frustration and anger, I think he is too young to really comprehend how truly sick suicidal people are. No one in their right mind wakes up one day and says "you know what would make my life better? Killing myself".

    When it comes to mental illness, we still have a long way to go. Dealing with a suicide is painful and tough and while the family left behind have a lot to deal with, the person taking their life isn't doing it to be selfish or because they couldn't be bothered to make the effort anymore. Ending your life is final. You have to be in a pretty dark place to take that drastic step.

    It's very upsetting that a lot of people who commit suicide are convinced that their families would be better of without them :(


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    #253
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    My name is URL wrote: »
    This all seems a bit exploitative now.. cameras zooming in and spluttery leading questions by the rapey looking presenter...

    It extremely exploitative.

    Brendan O'Connor: "Do you think The Lord gave you this illness to convey this message" - or similar drivel to that effect.

    It's unfair to place the lad in that situation when he apparently never intended the comments to be made public.

    His lack of understanding of mental health issues makes it even more disturbing.


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    #254
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Jesus guys, some of the comments on this thread are unbelievable. There are an awful lot of assumptions, and some kind of bizarre power struggle about who is best placed to comment on the whole sorry situation.

    I'll take my leave.


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    #255
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Why should they not be judged? People get judged for far more innocuous and menial **** every day.

    How about when people with severe clinical depression or other mental difficulties decide to murder their own children before killing themselves? Should they not be judged... should it not be discussed for the fear of upsetting a few people?

    Now I've seen goal post shifting in the past but 9 points from the East German judge for that one.

    Clearly different situations would have different reactions and the people left behind might feel upset at somebody no longer being about due to that person's own decision.


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    #256
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    Steve O wrote: »
    Not hurt but a bit annoyed. I mean he's young and his opinion may change over time but it is people like him that don't educate themselves on a subject before preaching that really get to me.

    The comments on the independent website are something else.

    I would be inclined to agree with you he is well meaning but doesn't get what it feels like to feel utterly desperate and thinking that there's only one way out


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    #257
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    I have known quite a few terminally ill people who weren't arsed about dying and didn't put up much of a fight. The people who really want to live are those who have things to live for - supportive family, a circle of friends, interests. People who really enjoy their lives. Of course such people want to keep living, that's logical. Why isn't it logical for you that someone with a sh*tty, miserable life who can't feel any emotions and sees no reason to keep going would want to die?

    I never said that it wasnt logical that they had them thoughts..i said comparing the two was idiotic....people with depression have a chance whether its big or small. people who have been handed a death sentance and are told theres nothing more that can be done have not

    Thats about as logical as it gets!!


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    #258
    Lyra Fangs
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Lyra Fangs


    To some depression can seem like a terminal illness. A person's death might be by their own hands but those hands are guided by the feelings of despair and hopelessness that depression can invoke. I understand that he has good intentions and he is still very young but his words come across as ignorant and judgemental. He seems to view suicide as a selfish decision made by people who haven't really tried to get better or get help.

    I cannot fathom why rte thought it a good idea to support and help publicize his campaign. It will only aid in reinforcing existing misconceptions about mental illness and suicide that many people have been fighting to change for so long.

    As a person who has suffered from anxiety and mild depression i think that rtes endorsement of this campaign will make it that bit harder for people to seek help or to tell friends/family that they have a problem for fear of being told to "get over it".


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    #259
    Cosmicfox
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Cosmicfox


    P_1 wrote: »
    In a way suicide could be considered as a person having the ultimate control over their body. Is it selfish? I guess it depends on who's perspective you look at it from. If a person decides to end their own life then who is anybody to judge that person really.

    I think it depends. I could go and hang myself now and it probably wouldn't be a that big of a deal since I have no dependents but if you choose to bring children into the world, for example, and then abandon them by killing yourself while they still need you I suppose it could be considered selfish in that case.

    Anyway, I don't think this boy's campaign is really going to change anything.


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    #260
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    karma_ wrote: »
    Ignorant?

    You're the one who is placing depression on a par with terminal cancer. While it is a terrible affliction it's not on the same graph.

    I've seen the chemo and the radio wards in this country jam packed with patients. I've watched someone whither away and succumb to terminal cancer, it took everything from them from their hair to their dignity, and it wasn't painless.

    Few things terrify me more these days, and I would wish it on no one. Yet we have eijets in this very thread say they'd rather have cancer than depression? Yes that angers me but it's really just a fool with no experience of either.

    They are two different things. I wouldn't personally agree with the viewpoint that I'd rather have cancer than depression, but how do you know what that poster has experience of? I have scores of family members suffering from both cancer and mental illness and none of it is pretty. I know people who have killed themselves and I never once felt angry with them, even though they didn't suffer from the same physical illnesses I do and others do.

    It's not a competition and there's no point even comparing these things because it's not comparing like with like. Someone NOT killing themselves because they are depressed is not going to help this poor boy live.


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    #261
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    How does it make it harder to get help? He made the point that there is help out there for everyone. He has no help left.


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    #262
    mise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭mise


    Just watched the piece.

    He said that if telling his story on tv, helps anyone see the positives in life he could die happy. Whatever about his lack of knowledge of mental health, I honestly don't see the harm this could do. If it give someone who is suffering from depression some hope, to me, this is a good thing.


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    #263
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Lyra Fangs wrote: »
    As a person who has suffered from anxiety and mild depression i think that rtes endorsement of this campaign will make it that bit harder for people to seek help or to tell friends/family that they have a problem for fear of being told to "get over it".

    At what point was anyone told by him to "get over it". Unless my ears are broken i never heard him say that? Perhaps thats the way you took him up, but i never heard those words. What I heard was him saying people need to realize that suicide is never a solution. There is help there for everyone.

    Where anyone can find a problem with that is beyond me!


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    #264
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    I never said that it wasnt logical that they had them thoughts..i said comparing the two was idiotic....people with depression have a chance whether its big or small. people who have been handed a death sentance and are told theres nothing more that can be done have not

    Thats about as logical as it gets!!

    Ehhh...OK. In your little black and white world, yes, it's so logical.

    CaraMay wrote: »
    How does it make it harder to get help? He made the point that there is help out there for everyone. He has no help left.

    But it isn't. Have you any idea what mental health resources are like? I phoned up asking for a counselling appointment because I was feeling desperate and like I was going to do something stupid (I'd just found out I had a serious physical illness among other things). I waited months and months for an appointment and when I got one, the therapist was next to useless.

    Help is NOT really widely available! People still just don't get it. I turned to several people when I felt desperate and they all fobbed me off. Family members and friends. No doubt if I'd topped myself, they'd all have cried at my funeral and said how selfish I was, but when I needed them, not one of them was there for me. I got 'ah but sure your life's not that bad, 'we all have problems, not just you'. I'm sure many people have the same experience.


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    #265
    6am7f9zxrsjvnb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭6am7f9zxrsjvnb


    Some of the earlier posters must be feeling fairly sheepish after watching that interview. What a remarkable kid.I have no doubt that at least ONE suicidal teen has been inspired by that.Even if it is only one,his appearance was worthwhile.


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    #266
    VanishingActs
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭VanishingActs


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Ehhh...OK. In your little black and white world, yes, it's so logical.




    But it isn't. Have you any idea what mental health resources are like? I phoned up asking for a counselling appointment because I was feeling desperate and like I was going to do something stupid (I'd just found out I had a serious physical illness among other things). I waited months and months for an appointment and when I got one, the therapist was next to useless.

    Help is NOT really widely available! People still just don't get it. I turned to several people when I felt desperate and they all fobbed me off. Family members and friends. No doubt if I'd topped myself, they'd all have cried at my funeral and said how selfish I was, but when I needed them, not one of them was there for me. I got 'ah but sure your life's not that bad, 'we all have problems, not just you'. I'm sure many people have the same experience.

    This, 100%. I'm not going to go into detail because they're not my stories to tell, but I know two people right now who are suffering from very serious depression and neither of them is getting the help they need. Waiting lists of MONTHS and MONTHS, appointments that aren't even nearby, doctors brushing them off. Getting help is NOT easy in this country. These people and their families have met huge obstacles everywhere they turn. It's appalling and horrifying.


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    #267
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Just turned off my TV there and there's an image of John Waters burned into the screen.


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    #268
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    It extremely exploitative.

    Brendan O'Connor: "Do you think The Lord gave you this illness to convey this message" - or similar drivel to that effect.

    It's unfair to place the lad in that situation when he apparently never intended the comments to be made public.

    His lack of understanding of mental health issues makes it even more disturbing.

    This probably means it will be all over the Sindo tomorrow.


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    #269
    Lyra Fangs
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Lyra Fangs


    CaraMay wrote: »
    How does it make it harder to get help? He made the point that there is help out there for everyone. He has no help left.
    The fact that he's on tv and his campaign is being supported suggests that some people agree with his opinion of suicide. And has already stated by other members on here his opinion is based on a real lack of understanding and general ignorance toward suicide.

    If I was a person desperately in need of help and I read the article or watched the interview i would be completely disillusioned. Its difficult enough to ask for help without hearing that suicide is a selfish decision and people should just snap out of their depression because other people are in worse situations.


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    #270
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Ehhh...OK. In your little black and white world, yes, it's so logical

    Your sarcasm screams maturity. By all means seeing as you are so educated in mental health and how comparable it is to a death sentance please show me the lack of logic in what i said.


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    #271
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    VanishingActs wrote: »
    This, 100%. I'm not going to go into detail because they're not my stories to tell, but I know two people right now who are suffering from very serious depression and neither of them is getting the help they need. Waiting lists of MONTHS and MONTHS, appointments that aren't even nearby, doctors brushing them off. Getting help is NOT easy in this country. These people and their families have met huge obstacles everywhere they turn. It's appalling and horrifying.

    Thats not just mental health. ive been to the doctors 5 times in 12 months over my knee they kept telling me it was ok i had to get an MRI privatley, showed nothing been back twice since and now they tell me i need physio that serious damage is clearly done. and ive to wait MONTHS and MONTHS You must be persistant if you want help

    I am not comparing it with mental illness     im simply pointing out the flaw in the health system


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