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Woman hospitalised after third assault
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If we had a system where prison was not a nice place to be in people may think twice about Perpetrating a crime. Now prisons have become a second home for many. Why do prisons have such luxuries in them. We don't need more spaces in prisons, we need harsher systems in place and that for sure will make empty prisons. A lot less cost for the tax payer.
Have you been inside an irish prison? I would put an animal in mountjoy. If you picture of Irish prisons is based upon the media, it is a very poor image.
I disagree harsher prisons will not reduce crime. We need more space because we don't have enough cell for people to serve out their semtense.
I can tell you prison is not a nice place to be in, as I say if you want to address this problem like any other one it is going to cost.0 -
If we had a system where prison was not a nice place to be in people may think twice about Perpetrating a crime. Now prisons have become a second home for many. Why do prisons have such luxuries in them. We don't need more spaces in prisons, we need harsher systems in place and that for sure will make empty prisons. A lot less cost for the tax payer.[/QUOTE]
In the USA they have some of the toughest & hardest prisons in the world yet there prison population is still rising as is crime.
In finland a country with the lowest prison population in the European Union. Here they have made it a point of principle to keep criminals out of prison, unless they are believed to pose a risk to society.
Some of the post taken from a recent article in the Irish Times.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=irish%20times%20finlands%20prinsons&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fopen-minded-finland-offers-successful-alternative-to-heavy-handed-retribution-1.964775&ei=gL1UUbGAKsqWhQfu4oHYCw&usg=AFQjCNGiG_bc-E8Zc5JLykXmorHCD4Z7VQ&bvm=bv.44442042,d.ZG4
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=irish%20times%20finlands%20prinsons&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fwhere-prison-is-seen-as-last-resort-of-justice-system-1.964781&ei=gL1UUbGAKsqWhQfu4oHYCw&usg=AFQjCNH1r7-dXEaJHeyQcwdSnCuG9YELMg&bvm=bv.44442042,d.ZG4 Good reading.
The move to cut the prison population began not with politicians but academics during the late 60s. Inspired by the radicalism of the age, intellectuals insisted that criminal policy should be part of an overall social policy, related to employment and educational opportunities, and proclaimed that there was no evidence of a link between long prison sentences and less crime.
Prison should rehabilitate prisoners and ensure they can safely re-enter society. To that end “the whole idea of retribution and vengeance and so forth really and truly has been proven across the world not to work”.0 -
Have you been inside an irish prison? I would put an animal in mountjoy. If you picture of Irish prisons is based upon the media, it is a very poor image.
I disagree harsher prisons will not reduce crime. We need more space because we don't have enough cell for people to serve out their semtense.
I can tell you prison is not a nice place to be in, as I say if you want to address this problem like any other one it is going to cost.
Unfortunately prison is the only alternative for criminals. Are you telling me that a rapist, a murderer, etc.. Will be all good and well to walk out streets after a bit of rehabilitation? I'm sorry but that is not the case! How many have had early release and went back out to our streets and caused more crimes. I do believe people deserve a chance, however when we are dealing with hardcore criminals the key needs to be thrown away to keep society reasonably safe. Gone are the days when you can walk any where alone at night alone, be it male or female.0 -
Unfortunately prison is the only alternative for criminals. Are you telling me that a rapist, a murderer, etc.. Will be all good and well to walk out streets after a bit of rehabilitation? I'm sorry but that is not the case! How many have had early release and went back out to our streets and caused more crimes..
And had they been through a rehabilitation program?
You realise that most criminals are eventually released "back out to our streets?0 -
Saudi authorities have beheaded a murderer and crucified his body after he killed and raped a Pakistani national.
The kingdom's interior ministry announced the execution, stating that the man had murdered and sodomised another male. Both actions are punishable by death.
'The Yemeni citizen Mohammed Rashad Khairi Hussain killed a Pakistani, Pashteh Sayed Khan, after he committed sodomy with him,' said a statement carried by state news agency SPA.
Hussain was also convicted of robbery and carrying out a series of attacks.
The execution, in the southern city of Jizan, was followed by crucifixion, a punishment used by the ultra-conservative country for serious crimes.
Rehabilitation must have failed in this case0 -
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And had they been through a rehabilitation program?
You realise that most criminals are eventually released "back out to our streets?
Nodin I believe rehabilitation may work for some criminals, but my point is the hardcore ones are beyond help. I'm not saying the death penalty or treat them with violence, when I say harsh I mean no TV, no pool, no mobile phones, Darts, no access to visitors etc etc.... How about a prison cell for them "on their own" to reflect on their lives. Allow them access to books, educational or self healing books. The idea of criminals going to prison and having all the luxuries they have is far from harsh.0 -
Nodin I believe rehabilitation may work for some criminals, but my point is the hardcore ones are beyond help. I'm not saying the death penalty or treat them with violence, when I say harsh I mean no TV, no pool, no mobile phones, Darts, no access to visitors etc etc.... How about a prison cell for them "on their own" to reflect on their lives. Allow them access to books, educational or self healing books. The idea of criminals going to prison and having all the luxuries they have is far from harsh.
They don't have "all the luxuries". Secondly, how are you going to determine who the "hardcore" are? The whole cell on their own and isolation to consider the error their ways has been tried.0 -
Saudi authorities have beheaded a murderer and crucified his body after he killed and raped a Pakistani national.
The kingdom's interior ministry announced the execution, stating that the man had murdered and sodomised another male. Both actions are punishable by death.
'The Yemeni citizen Mohammed Rashad Khairi Hussain killed a Pakistani, Pashteh Sayed Khan, after he committed sodomy with him,' said a statement carried by state news agency SPA.
Hussain was also convicted of robbery and carrying out a series of attacks.
The execution, in the southern city of Jizan, was followed by crucifixion, a punishment used by the ultra-conservative country for serious crimes.
Rehabilitation must have failed in this case
Hard to tell what you're on about here. Are you saying that we should run the country along the lines of sharia law? And are you suggesting they run a rehabilitation minded regime in Saudi?0 -
They don't have "all the luxuries". Secondly, how are you going to determine who the "hardcore" are? The whole cell on their own and isolation to consider the error their ways has been tried.
Well if they don't have "all the luxuries" we are lead to believe, that is good to hear. I'm sure the systems are well able to differentiate between hardcore criminals and criminals.
They say the best form of attack is "love"!! Hmmm..... It's sad to see how society has changed so much and now we seem to live in a world of fear.0 -
some good posts here now that the emotive BS and the 3D's are out of the way,
Odysseus... Ill be back again tomorrow to respond, Im too tired to think at this stage,
but beware, I connect the social services dept, lawyers, criminals and judges together, in a money spinner industry...I know conspiracy theorys that way>>>>
but its hard not to connect dots when its laid out in front of you.0 -
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some good posts here now that the emotive BS and the 3D's are out of the way,
Odysseus... Ill be back again tomorrow to respond, Im too tired to think at this stage,
but beware, I connect the social services dept, lawyers, criminals and judges together, in a money spinner industry...I know conspiracy theorys that way>>>>
but its hard not to connect dots when its laid out in front of you.
And to miss lockhart, you are not so wide off the mark with one of your comments which is why I feel the way I do about this subject.... I see the seeds of it everywhere starting to get a foothold. And it saddens me that this is not the country I left many moons ago.
Well said0 -
Unfortunately prison is the only alternative for criminals. Are you telling me that a rapist, a murderer, etc.. Will be all good and well to walk out streets after a bit of rehabilitation? I'm sorry but that is not the case! How many have had early release and went back out to our streets and caused more crimes. I do believe people deserve a chance, however when we are dealing with hardcore criminals the key needs to be thrown away to keep society reasonably safe. Gone are the days when you can walk any where alone at night alone, be it male or female.
So how have you come to this conclusion, how much study have you put into evaulating the irish prison service? How many active and reformed criminal have you interviewed? I'm not trying to be funny here, but establish where you are getting your information from.
You state in another post prisoners should have no visitors, does that include the likes of me. I get a special room when I got to the prisons, I still have to got through the security stuff of course but I get special concessions as a professional. How can we rehabilitate people if we just fcuk them in a cell, deny them access to their family? This sounds like a good way to develop a breed of angry revenge seeking criminals.
Who defines a hardcore criminal? How do we do that? On the basis of the crime? The amount of crime? A psych profile? Or just I don't like the look of him?
I grew up in a part of Dublin which is consider to have a high crime rate, I still walk around it at night and I'm not afarid and so are lots of people.
Yes, I have been a victim of crime in the past few years, I have reported 3 crimes to the garda, I have been attacked and needed hospital treatment following it.
Four fools tried to mug me, I got a head wound from a Bike U-lock. Where they hardcore criminals, no they were teens [18-19 yrs old] chancing their arm, If the where hardcore criminals I would not have been able to defend myseldf as hardcore criminal generally don't fcuk about,anyway a hardcore criminal would not be interested in what I have in my pockets, they would be after better rewards.
Do we need to address this situation where idiots like that think they can attack citizens, yes we do. Should it involve the garda abusing them no. Should it involve them having the human rights taken away, again no.
I want services working with the fools who attacked me, If they go to jail, I don't want to see them get early relase unless they are tied into a programme. A lot of lads are just thrown out early with minimum follow up. Why? Because we don't spend the money, so we don't have people employed to do so.
I like a lot of people can walk around my community and most place I can think of and still feel safe. I say this as someone who has experienced street crime that the streets of this country are not that unsafe that we have to avoid them after dark.0 -
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People reoffend because they know they can get away with it, the judge will tap them on the hand and say "good boy Johnny" you can go back out on the streets and commit more crimes. Ireland is a great place for criminals.
Prove it. Seriously, if that's what you think, then supply any evidence to support it.0 -
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So how have you come to this conclusion, how much study have you put into evaulating the irish prison service? How many active and reformed criminal have you interviewed? I'm not trying to be funny here, but establish where you are getting your information from.
Odysseus, are you now telling me we are not allowed To express our opinions in here? Are you telling me that if we give an opinion we have to spend years studying the topic? Come on give me a break. Just because you are in the four walls of this it's not to say you have all the right answers and solutions.
You state in another post prisoners should have no visitors, does that include the likes of me. I get a special room when I got to the prisons, I still have to got through the security stuff of course but I get special concessions as a professional. How can we rehabilitate people if we just fcuk them in a cell, deny them access to their family? This sounds like a good way to develop a breed of angry revenge seeking criminals.
No need to curse, show some professionalism for you career.
The reality is you can't rehabilitate most of them and you know it! These people don't want to be helped, and they are so deeply programmed. As I said it the upbringing from the womb.
Who defines a hardcore criminal? How do we do that? On the basis of the crime? The amount of crime? A psych profile? Or just I don't like the look of him?
Well there's a big difference in Johnny stealing a sweet from a candy store, and thugs who decide to break into people's homes with guns and knives. Etc etc...
I grew up in a part of Dublin which is consider to have a high crime rate, I still walk around it at night and I'm not afarid and so are lots of people.
Well I hardly see it safe for a woman or teenager to walk the streets at night.
Yes, I have been a victim of crime in the past few years, I have reported 3 crimes to the garda, I have been attacked and needed hospital treatment following it.
Four fools tried to mug me, I got a head wound from a Bike U-lock. Where they hardcore criminals, no they were teens [18-19 yrs old] chancing their arm, If the where hardcore criminals I would not have been able to defend myseldf as hardcore criminal generally don't fcuk about,anyway a hardcore criminal would not be interested in what I have in my pockets, they would be after better rewards.
Do we need to address this situation where idiots like that think they can attack citizens, yes we do. Should it involve the garda abusing them no. Should it involve them having the human rights taken away, again no.
I never stated Gardai should abuse them, as much as I'm sure they may like to on occasions. Should they have human rights if they don't behave like humans??
I want services working with the fools who attacked me, If they go to jail, I don't want to see them get early relase unless they are tied into a programme. A lot of lads are just thrown out early with minimum follow up. Why? Because we don't spend the money, so we don't have people employed to do so.
I've no problem with certain program's put in place for individuals who genuinely want to clear up their act, but no many seem to want to. And the sad thing is the most who do want help they have to fork out crazy amounts of money to your kind of profession.
I can tell you that most people are afraid in their own homes let alone on the streets. The streets are unsafe!
I like a lot of people can walk around my community and most place I can think of and still feel safe. I say this as someone who has experienced street crime that the streets of this country are not that unsafe that we have to avoid them after dark.So how have you come to this conclusion, how much study have you put into evaulating the irish prison service? How many active and reformed criminal have you interviewed? I'm not trying to be funny here, but establish where you are getting your information from.
Odysseus, are you now telling me we are not allowed To express our opinions in here? Are you telling me that if we give an opinion we have to spend years studying the topic? Come on give me a break. Just because you are in the four walls of this it's not to say you have all the right answers and solutions.
No need to curse, show some professionalism for you career.
The reality is you can't rehabilitate most of them and you know it! These people don't want to be helped, and they are so deeply programmed. As I said it the upbringing from the womb.
Well there's a big difference in Johnny stealing a sweet from a candy store, and thugs who decide to break into people's homes with guns and knives. Etc etc...
You state you have been a victim of crimes and then you say the streets are safe to walk?
Well I hardly see it safe for a man/woman or child/teenager to walk the streets at night.
I never stated Gardai should abuse them, as much as I'm sure they may like to on occasions. Should they have human rights if they don't behave like humans??
I want services working with the fools who attacked me, If they go to jail, I don't want to see them get early relase unless they are tied into a programme. A lot of lads are just thrown out early with minimum follow up. Why? Because we don't spend the money, so we don't have people employed to do so.
I've no problem with certain program's put in place for individuals who genuinely want to clear up their act, but no many seem to want to. And the sad thing is the most who do want help they have to fork out crazy amounts of money to your kind of profession.
I can tell you that most people are afraid in their own homes let alone on the streets. The streets are unsafe.0 -
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A Leighlinbridge man is due in court next week in connection with an armed raid in the town on Wednesday.
*************** was released on bail yesterday after appearing before the criminal court in Dublin.
He’s due before Carlow District court next Wednesday.
A local woman was left very shaken, but unhurt, after being threatened with a knife during the robbery at Leighlinbridge Post Office.
http://kclr96fm.com/news/leighlinbridge-man-due-before-carlow-district-court-after-armed-raid/
he was released on bail ffs!0 -
Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »Most of the cases in my local paper would have the information that whatever scumbag is up would have convictions in double figures.
Thanks Grand Moff. Some people are getting very defensive in here.0 -
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A Leighlinbridge man is due in court next week in connection with an armed raid in the town on Wednesday.
*************** was released on bail yesterday after appearing before the criminal court in Dublin.
He’s due before Carlow District court next Wednesday.
A local woman was left very shaken, but unhurt, after being threatened with a knife during the robbery at Leighlinbridge Post Office.
http://kclr96fm.com/news/leighlinbridge-man-due-before-carlow-district-court-after-armed-raid/
he was released on bail ffs!
What a joke! And some people in here continue to defend the mucked up system and judges we have in Ireland0 -
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Come on now, when have you ever seen this happen?
Well if we are to believe our local newspapers the system is a farce. It's being made like the reoffenders are valued customers in the courts and its a cash cow business. Please do tell me if this is not the case, because I can't see why else this is happening.0 -
Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »Most of the cases in my local paper would have the information that whatever scumbag is up would have convictions in double figures.
Indeed, but try tell that to some people in here, they play a blind eye to it and attack you for stating the truth.0 -
So how have you come to this conclusion, how much study have you put into evaulating the irish prison service? How many active and reformed criminal have you interviewed? I'm not trying to be funny here, but establish where you are getting your information from.
Odysseus, are you now telling me we are not allowed To express our opinions in here? Are you telling me that if we give an opinion we have to spend years studying the topic? Come on give me a break. Just because you are in the four walls of this it's not to say you have all the right answers and solutions.
No need to curse, show some professionalism for you career.
The reality is you can't rehabilitate most of them and you know it! These people don't want to be helped, and they are so deeply programmed. As I said it the upbringing from the womb.
Well there's a big difference in Johnny stealing a sweet from a candy store, and thugs who decide to break into people's homes with guns and knives. Etc etc...
You state you have been a victim of crimes and then you say the streets are safe to walk?
Well I hardly see it safe for a man/woman or child/teenager to walk the streets at night.
I never stated Gardai should abuse them, as much as I'm sure they may like to on occasions. Should they have human rights if they don't behave like humans??
I want services working with the fools who attacked me, If they go to jail, I don't want to see them get early relase unless they are tied into a programme. A lot of lads are just thrown out early with minimum follow up. Why? Because we don't spend the money, so we don't have people employed to do so.
I've no problem with certain program's put in place for individuals who genuinely want to clear up their act, but no many seem to want to. And the sad thing is the most who do want help they have to fork out crazy amounts of money to your kind of profession.
I can tell you that most people are afraid in their own homes let alone on the streets. The streets are unsafe.
I would encourage people to express their opinions, however, once articulated they are open to be assessed. I do think that if people want their opinions to be taken seriously they should know what they are talking about. That means we look up stuff and try to learn about what ever topic we are speaking about.
Do that mean people have to be always correct, hell no. We only learn by making mistakes, I have no problems in acknowledgeing any of my posts here that may not be correct. It is how we learn. So I don't expect people to be experts but I do think that their opinions need to stand up. One way to do that is to study the topic in some way.
I don't know what you mean about crazy amounts of money, I would earn more outside the system than within it. I see people getting paid for the level of their qualification and their experience, and TBH the money is not what it should be. However, you get the system you pay for; if you want a good justice system you will need to pay for it.
As to the human rights issues yes we should respect everyones human rights; if we want to punish people for the crimes, we are saying this is how we want you to behave. If you abuse some because the State allows it; what does that say about you?
I expressed my personal experiences of crime so that the usual counters of "well when you, your mother, your daughter etc are assaulted you will change your opinion"
So to conclude, I'm all for personal opinions, but try make them informed ones, rather than some stuff you hear in a bar or in poor quality papers.0 -
Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »Most of the cases in my local paper would have the information that whatever scumbag is up would have convictions in double figures.
So what does that tell us?0 -
Well if we are to believe our local newspapers the system is a farce. It's being made like the reoffenders are valued customers in the courts and its a cash cow business. Please do tell me if this is not the case, because I can't see why else this is happening.
OK explain this to me, because I can see it, so I'm asking you to break this down and show me how they are seen as "valued customers" and the "cash cow" side of things.
I can't see how you can actually state that and stand over it.0 -
I would encourage people to express their opinions, however, once articulated they are open to be assessed. I do think that if people want their opinions to be taken seriously they should know what they are talking about. That means we look up stuff and try to learn about what ever topic we are speaking about.
Do that mean people have to be always correct, hell no. We only learn by making mistakes, I have no problems in acknowledgeing any of my posts here that may not be correct. It is how we learn. So I don't expect people to be experts but I do think that their opinions need to stand up. One way to do that is to study the topic in some way.
I don't know what you mean about crazy amounts of money, I would earn more outside the system than within it. I see people getting paid for the level of their qualification and their experience, and TBH the money is not what it should be. However, you get the system you pay for; if you want a good justice system you will need to pay for it.
As to the human rights issues yes we should respect everyones human rights; if we want to punish people for the crimes, we are saying this is how we want you to behave. If you abuse some because the State allows it; what does that say about you?
I expressed my personal experiences of crime so that the usual counters of "well when you, your mother, your daughter etc are assaulted you will change your opinion"
So to conclude, I'm all for personal opinions, but try make them informed ones, rather than some stuff you hear in a bar or in poor quality papers.
Just to let you know I don't drink, smoke or do any kind of drugs, so I do not hang out in "bars". I'm disappointed if now your telling me my local papers are not the truth!?0 -
Just to let you know I don't drink, smoke or do any kind of drugs, so I do not hang out in "bars". I'm disappointed if now your telling me my local papers are not the truth!?
I don't know what your paper is, but if it tells you that the judge is just givig Johnny a tap on the wrist etc, I would be concerned about the quality.0 -
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