Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

tayto lover · 29-03-2013 02:07AM

damian139 wrote: »

I would luuuuuuurv to throw my tuppence worth into this debate. But I'm a member of AGS , and it would appear that the benefits of living in a democracy might not apply to me.

Probably the most relevant post on the whole subject.
I can't add to it. Well said.
End of.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 02:09AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably the most relevant post on the whole subject.
I can't add to it. Well said.
End of.

LOL

tayto lover · 29-03-2013 02:15AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL

Not like you.
You usually have your agenda to attend to.

:D
Nite nite.

JRant · 29-03-2013 02:20AM

J K wrote: »

JRant did you know that it was once illegal for anyone to be a member of a labour union. Anywhere. In any business or any workforce. For anyone to strike was illegal.
That's right. Anyone and Everyone. And why didn't they just accept this. They took the jobs. That's what they signed up for. That's the logic you are repeating ad naseum in every post in this thread - you took the job you accept the terms. However what was then statutary law some people felt was contrary to natural law. And some people died to acquire the human rights that people such as yourself live under and enjoy now. The right to form a union and take industrial action to protect worker rights.

If the Gardai are expected to have no protections where their employer - the state - has made a rule that he could treat his employees anyway he wishes and there is nothing they can do about it and has continuosly acted in bad faith exploiting that rule against the workers then that is an infringement of human rights.

If the Gardai are expected not to have these protections that every other citizen in the western world has then they must be safeguarded by having an independent arbiter to decide on their pay and conditions. The state can only make application to amend these but the independent entity makes judgement. This entity can be the labour court or a specially formed Independent Garda Pay Commission but it must be independent of an employer who has fixed the rules to suit himself and exploit his workers.

Great, so we're agreed they shouldn't have unions.
I've already stated that there should be some form of independent body to rule on matters such as pay. What more do you want me to say?

Are you really suggesting the State is exploiting AGS, because if you are then there can be no debating the issue as your only seeing what you want to see.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 02:33AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Not like you.
You usually have your agenda to attend to. :D
Nite nite.[/QUO

medication tapering off i see , another dart needed

and please point out for the crowd what my usual agenda is ?
because i don't know , should be a hoot reading your description of it
was not aware i had one.

Mylow · 29-03-2013 02:35AM

2 of the 4 went to same secondary school.... few years apart......not surprised by one of them.....I know both of them....can't imagine they done anything for their promotion prospects.

greenoverred · 29-03-2013 02:42AM

Boombastic wrote: »

So GARDA REPRESENTATIVE ASSOCIATION
CURRENT PAY GARDA RANK 2013 is not current pay?

The proposed cuts in UK will be start in 3 days time, and like most public sector workers you seem confused between net and gross pay :rolleyes:

Current Pay Garda Rank 2013 is current pay but that is not the pay scale you posted. You posted "gross pay 1st sept 2008".

At least read the bloody thing before you start posting it

JRant · 29-03-2013 02:51AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

:rolleyes: I presume that you have examples of these Gardai in their mid 40s' retiring and exactly how much of a pension they're receiving. Post the details here if you can (That is if you're not just spouting sensationalist Indo crap..)

I'll refer you to your next post......

Firstly, most Gardai retire between 55 and 60 which is not 15 years before everybody else. Secondly, very few, if any, ordinary retired Guard is on €600 unless he also invested in AVCs' or suchlike.

The rest of your post to my mind is just drivel. You do know that as you're sitting there typing that members of these occupations are out there dealing with drunks, abuse, car crashes, fires and sick and injured people. Maybe in your cocooned world you don't see it but it's happening right now, somewhere in the country. In an hours time it'll be happening again - might be a different Guard or Fireman dealing with it but it is happening. All day. Every day.

Once again, Google is your friend. Get your facts right.
Who got 4/5% every year from benchmarking??
AFAIR the Gardai got 5% which was paid out over 2 years or so - i.e. 1.5% now, same in 6 Months, 1% 6 months later and the final 1% at the end of the two years. Figures might be slightly arseways there but that's the gist of it.

There wasn't a peep out of the Private Sector either whilst all this was happening. They were all happy to reap the benefits and ignore what was going on around them. Now though, as the piper has to be paid, they want everyone else to suffer as well.
NO employed Private Sector worker has paid as much in this crisis as any Public Sector worker. That's a simple fact.

Well here's some facts for you big man.
Average Garda weekly pay increased from;
2000 - 837.87 to
2008 - 1207.24

Now I'm sure that your well able for a bit of maths but just in case, thats nearly a 50% increase in pay over 8 years. The last time I checked 50 divided by 8 = 6.25, that's a simple fact.

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

Your post clearly indicates you have intention in having a debate on the matter. Merely pointing out extremes will get you nowhere. You have no idea what I have faced in life and just come across as one of those "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is spouting drivel" merchants.

But of course your right again, no private sector worker has paid as much as the public sector. Those 400,000+ unemployed people have not paid any price at all, great logic altogether.
I'm also sure from your post that you have zero idea what that quote about a piper means. Here's the full one, with a little explaination "he who pays the piper, calls the tune" meaning the piper (AGS) plays the tune that the payer (The State) calls, got it, good.

JRant · 29-03-2013 02:55AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

knock your self out bud , all kinds of crap floating around here

but you might be right about the democracy thing - some peoples rights do look better than others - ill swap mine for yours in a heart beat

Careful now DJ, don't you know they're saving your life as we speak.

JRant · 29-03-2013 03:03AM

greenoverred wrote: »

You do realise this is 2013 ?

No, I never got that memo.

_Kaiser_ · 29-03-2013 09:17AM

All over folks, nothing to see here, move along..

Looks like they caved to me and the statement reads to me like closing the barn door after the horse has long bolted. "Full confidence in the Commissioner" eh? Maybe they DID all need to go to the bathroom at once then?

So in a system where even the police can't speak out, and the politicians simply ignore the electorate what are we left with, because it doesn't seem like a "democracy" to me.

omahaid · 29-03-2013 10:02AM

Kaiser2000, you say the politicians simply ignore the electorate but as you can see Meath voted in another FG TD yesterday so the message FG will take is "keep up the good work"

Paulzx · 29-03-2013 10:13AM

omahaid wrote: »

Kaiser2000, you say the politicians simply ignore the electorate but as you can see Meath voted in another FG TD yesterday so the message FG will take is "keep up the good work"

Don't think Labour got quite the same message

omahaid · 29-03-2013 10:14AM

Paulzx wrote: »

Don't think Labour got quite the same message

Perhaps they would have done better if there was a Labour minister for justice?

_Kaiser_ · 29-03-2013 10:15AM

omahaid wrote: »

Kaiser2000, you say the politicians simply ignore the electorate but as you can see Meath voted in another FG TD yesterday so the message FG will take is "keep up the good work"

She got about 14% of the total possible vote as I understand it - so exactly who is she supposed to be representing?

But you're right.. the Irish voters need to take their role in the process seriously too, and not vote people into government based on nothing more than "they fixed the road"/"my mammy and daddy always voted for them" and name recognition/sympathy (as in this case IMO)

We have a 26 year old now with no track record that will make nearly €100k and be set for life even after she leaves politics , representing a party that seems determined to continue the failed policies of their predecessors - all to keep themselves and their EU masters in the lifestyle's they've become accustomed to... at our expense!

Yep, the people of Meath East should be proud this morning alright, but this applies to anyone else who doesn't bother turning out, or who uses criteria like the above when filling out the ballot paper.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 10:47AM

well well well,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/walkout-sergeants-back-down-in-row-with-garda-chief-29162130.html

so they were going to take a stand for the garda were they ?
standing up for what is right and true ?

or get slapped back into place by the commish and the minister, like i have said would happen from the start, why?
becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

so lads - you can quote james larkin and sing the Internationale all ye want , matters not a jot in the garda - and they knew this from day one

but any sane poster knew this from the start - didn't we ??? :eek:

Pappa Charlie · 29-03-2013 11:15AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

well well well,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/walkout-sergeants-back-down-in-row-with-garda-chief-29162130.html

so they were going to take a stand for the garda were they ?
standing up for what is right and true ?

or get slapped back into place by the commish and the minister, like i have said would happen from the start, why?
becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

so lads - you can quote james larkin and sing the Internationale all ye want , matters not a jot in the garda - and they knew this from day one

but any sane poster knew this from the start - didn't we ??? :eek:

No apology for the minister and a clear message given to the commissioner, I think the government wanted this to go away, well done to the four lads! They were never going to please you Dj anyway!

HondaSami · 29-03-2013 11:24AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

public bullying from the government and ags, why am I not surprised.

JRant · 29-03-2013 11:25AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

well well well,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/walkout-sergeants-back-down-in-row-with-garda-chief-29162130.html

so they were going to take a stand for the garda were they ?
standing up for what is right and true ?

or get slapped back into place by the commish and the minister, like i have said would happen from the start, why?
becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

so lads - you can quote james larkin and sing the Internationale all ye want , matters not a jot in the garda - and they knew this from day one

but any sane poster knew this from the start - didn't we ??? :eek:

Good to see the top brass getting these boyos sorted so quickly, sends an important message to the rest of them.

"After more than six hours of talks, the four stepped back from their previous statement that they had lost confidence in the commissioner.

But their association leader John Redmond made it clear the meeting centred solely on the comments referring to the commissioner and they remained at odds with Justice Minister Alan Shatter."

It's a shame that Redmond fella can't stop stirring the pot or talking out of both sides of his mouth though

"Mr Redmond said afterwards that his association had reaffirmed its confidence in Mr Callinan, which had never been an issue.

It fully supported the four men for fulfilling the mandate they had been given and the association felt it was never a disciplinary matter. That had been confirmed at the meeting."

So Mr Redmond what was it then?
They withdrew comments they made about the commissioner but always fully supported him?
Sure there was no treat of disciplinary action, they just decided off their own back to backdown like the good little lads they are.

JRant · 29-03-2013 11:28AM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

No apology for the minister and a clear message given to the commissioner, I think the government wanted this to go away, well done to the four lads! They were never going to please you Dj anyway!

The clear message to the commissioner was "yes sir, your the boss".

HondaSami · 29-03-2013 11:32AM

JRant wrote: »

The clear message to the commissioner was "yes sir, your the boss".

He is the boss.

JRant · 29-03-2013 11:34AM

HondaSami wrote: »

He is the boss.

Well they'd do well to remember that in future and stop acting like a bunch trade unionists.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 11:35AM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

No apology for the minister and a clear message given to the commissioner, I think the government wanted this to go away, well done to the four lads! They were never going to please you Dj anyway!

thats a bit harsh - how does it please me? just becasue i pointed this out from the start , but shouted down by the numptys posting pointless rhetoric

i did not once say i wanted anything to happen to them either way , what i did say would happen did

you read into it what you want , but that dont make it true :rolleyes:

some people eh ???

HondaSami · 29-03-2013 11:38AM

They made their point and the public will see it for what it is. No one likes bullies.No publicity is bad publicity.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 11:42AM

HondaSami wrote: »

They made their point and the public will see it for what it is. No one likes bullies.

yea , but a POINTLESS point , and the public can also see that,
im sure in the cold light of day when they are directing traffic in the rain , they might be a bit more reticent.

there were better ways of forwarding their point - this was not one of them
publicly snubbing the commis and minister was ONLY going to end one way

badly for them - pointless stupidity on their part

im not going into the rasons why this was going to happen , i have repeated it many times - some get it , others drift off in the red mist and hear the theme music to citizen jones :rolleyes:

JRant · 29-03-2013 11:45AM

HondaSami wrote: »

They made their point and the public will see it for what it is. No one likes bullies.No publicity is bad publicity.

So they were bullied now?

HondaSami · 29-03-2013 11:46AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

yea , but a POINTLESS point , and the public can also see that,
im sure in the cold light of day when they are directing traffic in the rain , they might be a bit more reticent.

there were better ways of forwarding their point - this was not one of them
publicly snubbing the commis and minister was ONLY going to end one way

badly for them - pointless stupidity on their part

im not going into the rasons why this was going to happen , i have repeated it many times - some get it , others drift off in the red mist and hear the theme music to citizen jones :rolleyes:

Lol
I can see you sitting there all smug with "I told you so " face. Nothing is ever as it seems dj, don't be naive.

Pappa Charlie · 29-03-2013 11:46AM

The GRA conference will be another acid test, there is great support for the garda by the vast majority of people in this country, of course it's hard to expect people who may have been convicted of crimes to support them and many are quite bitter towards Gardai and some vent it on the Internet behind the closed doors and on sites like this, but there are decent people too without agendas who make rational arguments! I've a feeling we have a mixture on this forum!

JRant · 29-03-2013 11:57AM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

The GRA conference will be another acid test, there is great support for the garda by the vast majority of people in this country, of course it's hard to expect people who may have been convicted of crimes to support them and many are quite bitter towards Gardai and some vent it on the Internet behind the closed doors and on sites like this, but there are decent people too without agendas who make rational arguments! I've a feeling we have a mixture on this forum!

You've not contributed a single rational post to this entire thread, just dipped in and out calling anyone who differs in opinion to you a criminal.

Didn't realise you were the spokeswoman for everyone in the country either or could it be just like your opinion and not the gospel as you seem to think.

PyeContinental · 29-03-2013 11:58AM

An official statement issued on behalf of the commissioner said the four representatives from the Kilkenny-Carlow branch of the association indicated that they meant to cause no offence to Mr Callinan.

The four personally had full confidence in him, and he also enjoyed the full confidence of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors.

So they chickened out at the first sign of trouble, genuflected, kissed the ring, tail between the legs and scampered away. What an ignoble retreat.

Of course they meant offence. Walking out is a symbolic gesture to demonstrate unambiguously how little respect you have for someone and what they have to say. That was the point.

If you're going to do something, then do it. Have the courage of your convictions. A person should always try to have the strength of character to stand by the choices he makes.

If they had any faith in the solidarity and support of the rest of their colleagues, they would have let the commissioner and the minister do their worst. Perhaps they knew that the rest of their colleagues would be as cowardly as them and that there would be no backlash no matter what sanction they received. They should feel justifiably ashamed of themselves for being such turncoats. How dishonourable.

Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

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