Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

SB2013 · 28-03-2013 10:40PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

read my post - i said MOST rights , and they are

Have you got a link? What rights are you talking about? We;ve already excluded industrial, equality and working time rights. Are there any left?

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 10:40PM

J K wrote: »

No stretching - I'm pointing out the fallacy of your 'you took the job you signed up for things as at the time you took the job' argument you spout in every post. In which case industrial relations would still be at 1910. It's bullsht whether you try to go off on a tangent or not.

so they must have had a gun to their heads then must they?
or did they not bother read it maybe ?

jog on

far from a fallacy my friend - fact

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 10:42PM

SB2013 wrote: »

Have you got a link? What rights are you talking about? We;ve already excluded industrial, equality and working time rights. Are there any left?

equality ? please expand
and i dont need a link TBH , as i have said , they are not slaves , but they knew SOME right would be forgone when they joined

so the problem is what ?

J K · 28-03-2013 10:45PM

Jarvis you haven't a clue. 'When the money wans rolling in' lol.

You have no idea what money gardai earn. You don't know the cuts in garda pay since 2008. I defy you to list them here. You can't. You're talking on a subject you know nothing about. You're making an emotional argument with no facts and no information. Gardai never objected to pay cuts pro rata or proportional to rest of the public sector or private sector. Our employer has exploited our position of having no labour protections to again and again target us for higher proportional cuts than everyone else. That and only that is what we object to.

J K · 28-03-2013 10:47PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

so they must have had a gun to their heads then must they?
or did they not bother read it maybe ?

jog on

far from a fallacy my friend - fact

Did every worker in 1910 or 1810 have a gun to their head. Could they read.

Are you capable of following simple logic or are you being obtuse because you've lost the argument.

twowheelsonly · 28-03-2013 10:49PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

that is simple not a fact - you are calling people on no having correct facts
well sorry for you , but i have had in the last 2 years a 30% cut in wages , put onto a contract that is worthless to me , can not claim dole if the work stops , i also have had the USC , tax increases , prop and house hold tax , fuel gone up , mortgage gone up and on and on and on

so before you post something you think is cock sure - i suggest you get you head out of the clouds and come back down to earth , i and many many private section workers have been savaged , with no job security , no rights , no pensions

welcome to the real world , not the cossetted world that is the civil service

Probably worded that wrong

but where has your reduction in pay gone to?? All PS reductions have gone back to Government coffers. Yours has either gone to your employers or is just money that the company isn't making any more, but hasn't gone back to the State.
All of us have been caught by all the other taxes etc that you mentioned.

As a matter of interest, if you're working on a contract (as in employed by someone else) how come you won't be entitled to dole?

BTW, I worked in the 'Real world' as you put it for a long time (18yrs) before I joined the PS and to be honest I sometimes wonder was I better off. Hands up - I'm delighted to have a pension even if I am paying through the nose for it (never had one before) and the Job Security is definitely a bonus although not by any means guaranteed. The job conditions are crap though and basically you're just a number. (Not a Garda BTW) It's impossible to describe here but the overall conditions are shocking.
I also co-own a company 'on the outside' employing approx 60-70 part time staff and they're a nightmare to deal with!! The sense of entitlement and reluctance to work stuns me. Some are great obviously, and glad of the work, but a large amount of them are nothing more than whingers. Mostly young in fairness and a lot of them reared with a Tiger Spoon in their mouth but they really need to wake up and smell the heather.

SB2013 · 28-03-2013 10:49PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

equality ? please expand
and i dont need a link TBH , as i have said , they are not slaves , but they knew SOME right would be forgone when they joined

so the problem is what ?

You said most rights apply to Gardaí and named some. I have explained this to be untrue. So can you say what employment rights do apply to Gardaí?

repsol · 28-03-2013 10:50PM

I think the Gardai should either be given the same rights as everyone else in terms of right to strike, union membership etc OR they should have some protection from the cuts. The Government wants to treat them the same as everyone else when it suits and then treat them differently when it doesn't suit.It is outrageous that the Garda who had a go at Enda Kenny in Tescos and the 4 Gardai who walked out during the speeches at the AGSI may face disciplinary action.I think Shatter and the Commissioner need to earn respect,not expect it. Callinan seems to be a yes man and should be more supportive of his staff.

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 10:50PM

J K wrote: »

Jarvis you haven't a clue. 'When the money wans rolling in' lol.

You have no idea what money gardai earn. You don't know the cuts in garda pay since 2008. I defy you to list them here. You can't. You're talking on a subject you know nothing about. You're making an emotional argument with no facts and no information. Gardai never objected to pay cuts pro rata or proportional to rest of the public sector or private sector. Our employer has exploited our position of having no labour protections to again and again target us for higher proportional cuts than everyone else. That and only that is what we object to.

bla bla bla , bla bla BLA BLA BLA

bench marking 2000/2007 BLA BLA BLA , bla bla

Boo Hoo , BLA BLA huge pensions blablabla early retirement bla blab lbalba

and on and on and on

i have said what i have wanted to say , go back and read the tread
just becasue your banging the keyboard and convincing yourself that you are 100% correct , does not make it so

and its real funny , but people are choosing to ignore when i back the garda stance on pay , i back their position in the country , i think its a big farce the way they and the other "front line workers" are being treated

but this being AH , the cherry pickers are out in force
Shock horror - some ransomer on AH has a different and scary opinion to us!!!

GET HIM - HE COMES IN PEACE

:rolleyes:

SB2013 · 28-03-2013 10:52PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

bla bla bla , bla bla BLA BLA BLA

bench marking 2000/2007 BLA BLA BLA , bla bla

Boo Hoo , BLA BLA huge pensions blablabla early retirement bla blab lbalba

and on and on and on

i have said what i have wanted to say , go back and read the tread
just becasue your banging the keyboard and convincing yourself that you are 100% correct , does not make it so

and its real funny , but people are choosing to ignore when i back the garda stance on pay , i back their position in the country , i think its a big farce the way they and the other "front line workers" are being treated

but this being AH , the cherry pickers are out in force
Shock horror - some ransomer on AH has a different and scary opinion to us!!!

GET HIM - HE COMES IN PEACE

:rolleyes:

A cogent argument if ever I saw one. :rolleyes:

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 10:53PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Probably worded that wrong but where has your reduction in pay gone to?? All PS reductions have gone back to Government coffers. Yours has either gone to your employers or is just money that the company isn't making any more, but hasn't gone back to the State.
All of us have been caught by all the other taxes etc that you mentioned.

As a matter of interest, if you're working on a contract (as in employed by someone else) how come you won't be entitled to dole?

BTW, I worked in the 'Real world' as you put it for a long time (18yrs) before I joined the PS and to be honest I sometimes wonder was I better off. Hands up - I'm delighted to have a pension even if I am paying through the nose for it (never had one before) and the Job Security is definitely a bonus although not by any means guaranteed. The job conditions are crap though and basically you're just a number. (Not a Garda BTW) It's impossible to describe here but the overall conditions are shocking.
I also co-own a company 'on the outside' employing approx 60-70 part time staff and they're a nightmare to deal with!! The sense of entitlement and reluctance to work stuns me. Some are great obviously, and glad of the work, but a large amount of them are nothing more than whingers. Mostly young in fairness and a lot of them reared with a Tiger Spoon in their mouth but they really need to wake up and smell the heather.

self employed legally , but defacto employed by the same company
and it does not matter where the cuts has gone , its gone and i have to deal with this reality

as do every member of the state , including AGS

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 10:53PM

SB2013 wrote: »

A cogent argument if ever I saw one. :rolleyes:

why thank you - i modeled it on your posting style
flattery is the best form of compliment is it not ?

SB2013 · 28-03-2013 10:57PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

why thank you - i modeled it on your posting style
flattery is the best form of compliment is it not ?

I take it you've run out of lies and misunderstanding then?

J K · 28-03-2013 10:58PM

You're off the cuff and in the mix DJ Jarvis

tayto lover · 28-03-2013 11:06PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

tayto my good man - i suggest you read up on why police forces around the world dont have and are not allowed unions - same with defense forces.

there is a really good logical reason for this - its not to treat them like slaves , it to secure the state from influence outside and internal

most unions are internationally linked , as are political party's , if the police were in a union , it could be influenced by a outside power or force.
the same reason AGS are not allowed be political here.

do your research - becasue you just keep ignoring the facts when show to you , so stop asking the question - you are starting to come across as a hamster on a spinning wheel

why is it that hard for you to understand ?

So ha ha because there is "a really good logical reason" for stifling a whole workforce from stating their case that is ok and all above board. You are happy with that. Good man yourself.

Well I am not happy with that.
You cannot have a whole section of a Public Sector body being denied a say in their terms and conditions any longer.
These lads and ladies are not having it anymore and fair play to them.
They have had enough of this sh**.
I fully back them. They are not second class citizens and no citizen should stand for another section of the population being denied free speech and the right to be a member of a Union.
Logical reasons my a***. This kind of thing should have gone out with the Dodo. Too bad if you or anyone else doesn't like it but this should not be allowed to go away and I don't believe it will.

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:26PM

J K wrote: »

Did every worker in 1910 or 1810 have a gun to their head. Could they read.

Are you capable of following simple logic or are you being obtuse because you've lost the argument.

in case you have not noticed - this is 2013 , and as far as i am aware most garda can read - i even think its a requirement to join

i have lost nothing , because there was nothing to win - it called debate

now take you Valium and assume the position

and your post above LOL'ed very hard - thanks for that

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:28PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So ha ha because there is "a really good logical reason" for stifling a whole workforce from stating their case that is ok and all above board. You are happy with that. Good man yourself.

Well I am not happy with that.
You cannot have a whole section of a Public Sector body being denied a say in their terms and conditions any longer.
These lads and ladies are not having it anymore and fair play to them.
They have had enough of this sh**.
I fully back them. They are not second class citizens and no citizen should stand for another section of the population being denied free speech and the right to be a member of a Union.
Logical reasons my a***. This kind of thing should have gone out with the Dodo. Too bad if you or anyone else doesn't like it but this should not be allowed to go away and I don't believe it will.

hear that? - that's the tumbleweed rolling past
your another candidate for medicating - deep breath and the real world will come back - maybe

J K · 28-03-2013 11:29PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

in case you have not noticed - this is 2013 , and as far as i am aware most garda can read - i even think its a requirement to join

i have lost nothing , because there was nothing to win - it called debate

now take you Valium and assume the position

and you post above LOL'ed very hard - thanks for that

So could workers read in 1910 and 1710 when nobody could stike?

I'm still waiting for your answer on that one?

Gonna make another bullsh1t post are ya?

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:30PM

SB2013 wrote: »

I take it you've run out of lies and misunderstanding then?

i have a HUGE bag of lies that a garda sold me years ago , but funny i have not used one - yet

sb2013 is a transvestite hooker - there ya go , one used and a load left , and its only half ten , sweet

i think the brand of lies i have are the same ones used by the AGSI on their members

omahaid · 28-03-2013 11:33PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

The rest of your post to my mind is just drivel. You do know that as you're sitting there typing that members of these occupations are out there dealing with drunks, abuse, car crashes, fires and sick and injured people. Maybe in your cocooned world you don't see it but it's happening right now, somewhere in the country. In an hours time it'll be happening again - might be a different Guard or Fireman dealing with it but it is happening. All day. Every day.

You mean they are doing what they are paid to do?

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:40PM

J K wrote: »

So could workers read in 1910 and 1710 when nobody could stike?

I'm still waiting for your answer on that one?

Gonna make another bullsh1t post are ya?

no bull**** this is 2013 - the right or lack of the workers rights hundreds of years ago have no relation on connection to today - none , nada , zilch, well maybe in your head they do , but your grasp on the here and now is not my concern.

no bull**** , just not table thumping platitudes like your deluded posting.
im starting to think you my have swallowed larkins biography and now are vomiting random nonsensical words from it - akin to monkeys bashing keyboards if you will

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:45PM

omahaid wrote: »

You mean they are doing what they are paid to do?

yea , shock horror , they must not have been told all this, the same day that they were not told what was in that sneaky contract that was time machined from the late 1800's

god damm they have been hood winked :eek:
omahaid - quick , gather 10 of your finest horses and meet me in the square , its off to the CPII talks , we have to inform the garda what they are actually paid and signed up to do

YYYEEHHHAAAA

J K · 28-03-2013 11:51PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

the right or lack of the workers rights hundreds of years ago have no relation on connection to today

Why don't they ?

dj jarvis · 28-03-2013 11:57PM

J K wrote: »

Why don't they ?

man , JK i loved your first two albums , and i have granted you head space because of that , but you are just being pedantic and annoying at this stage , so im gonna stop transmitting from earth now , best of luck with your crusade ( really and truly have no idea what that is )

you should grow a beard , you cant get in on the 1912 labor talks without a beard - god speed

hawkelady · 28-03-2013 11:58PM

jmayo wrote: »

Ah yes what was I saying about the sacred cows again. :rolleyes:
And dear God you accuse me of posting utter idiotic cr**.

Yeah we all know how good the AGS is at tackling the blokes that break into our homes and beat the cr** out of us.
They together with their other public sector colleagues, the office of the DPP, the judges, the prison service all will ensure that my assailant is out within a few years, if not on bail, to carry on as normal.

As for needing a nurse if i was dying, I think I would prefer a doctor who didn't want to get away quickly to have a natter with their mates.
I have seen the level of care offered by a lot of our so called much put upon nursing staff and frankly it doesn't fill me with confidence.

For every nurse or garda (not so sure that firemen can get away with as much slacking off) that works their ar**es off there are a sizable quota who are lazy incompetent unprofessionals who are protected by the status quo and the excusors like yourself.

BTW I will also need an undertaker at some stage as well, should I make sure that he/she are some of the best paid in Europe ?

No need to get a highly paid undertaker, get a skip bag for all good it will do as you will be dead..
However the people that you described as "lazy incompetent unprofessionals " will be the people who will be around to possibly save your life..

ActingDanClark · 29-03-2013 12:03AM

I would luuuuuuurv to throw my tuppence worth into this debate. But I'm a member of AGS , and it would appear that the benefits of living in a democracy might not apply to me.

J K · 29-03-2013 12:08AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

man , JK i loved your first two albums , and i have granted you head space because of that , but you are just being pedantic and annoying at this stage , so im gonna stop transmitting from earth now , best of luck with your crusade ( really and truly have no idea what that is )

you should grow a beard , you cant get in on the 1912 labor talks without a beard - god speed

You were saying there earlier that no one can lose a 'debate'. But when you're unable to answer a question you have kinda of lost. The point of a debate is that you can support your points with arguments. I love the stuff about beards, and inter stellar transmission and late 90s pop stars - but it doesn't all cover over the fact that you're not supporting your arguments. There's no debate here.

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 12:11AM

hawkelady wrote: »

No need to get a highly paid undertaker, get a skip bag for all good it will do as you will be dead..
However the people that you described as "lazy incompetent unprofessionals " will be the people who will be around to possibly save your life..

well said hawklady - in all the zany clap trap being posted ( by others ) , i think it keeps getting ignored that , i can argue the validity of their right to strike and their pay and conditions while backing the AGS - i have had some collaboration with them

, and found most to be grand , not super heroes , just grand , like me and you ,
some go the extra mile and pay the ultimate price , most dont , thankfully

but because i have this stand point - some posters have tried to diminished what i have said in praise of them in many previous posts ,
well low blows to a fighter with no ideas and no options left.

they were sold a idea , a dream by the AGSI , dont knock me , dont knock the garda - it is all down to AGSI knowing full well they can and will be ignored at the whim of Shatter , and then getting into a strop over it

it can be argued with some validity that the situation needs changing , as has been said a LRC type set up is needed , or the case in Europe might change this , who knows

but until that time - they have to abide by the terms of employment and agreement they have SIGNED up for - no special cases
CPI had a clause that said , if things did not improve , they were coming for more cuts , and here we are - at this point

no one has yet to answer in this thread when asked , why are the AGS any different to you and me ?
are we all not in the ****ter ?

its a fair question

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 12:14AM

J K wrote: »

You were saying there earlier that no one can lose a 'debate'. But when you're unable to answer a question you have kinda of lost. The point of a debate is that you can support your points with arguments. I love the stuff about beards, and inter stellar transmission and late 90s pop stars - but it doesn't all cover over the fact that you're not supporting your arguments. There's no debate here.

your opinion ,well i have stated what i think of your opinion,
i care not what random internet radio star interstellar traveler thinks,

the great public at large can re read the thread , and make their minds up

earth out

dj jarvis · 29-03-2013 12:16AM

damian139 wrote: »

I would luuuuuuurv to throw my tuppence worth into this debate. But I'm a member of AGS , and it would appear that the benefits of living in a democracy might not apply to me.

knock your self out bud , all kinds of crap floating around here

but you might be right about the democracy thing - some peoples rights do look better than others - ill swap mine for yours in a heart beat

Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

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