Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

aloyisious

I'm a little bit worried about this latest move in the ongoing face-off between the Minister, the Garda Commissioner and the GSaI. While it may have been an affront to the dignity of the Minister and the Commisssioner for the four Sgts to get up and walk out of their conference when those two worthies appeared on the conference stage, and there might be something in the Garda Regulations to cover an act of direct ill-discipline by any Garda to the Minister or the Commissioner, I personally don's see any member of a union or Rep Body conference leaving it in peaceful silent protest when some-one he/she doesn't wish to listen to enter's as being anything other than a peaceful objection, unless it is now obligatory under statute law to attend such a conference at all times.

I'd be alarmed at the thought that the two senior members of the establishment above are picking a row with the Garda representative bodies, particularly if it's an attempt to provoke some sort of Blue-Flu incident, or worse. Mr Shatter is also the Minister for Defence and I've felt it wrong for one minister to hold both (Defence of the Republic) portfolios, seeing as how, if there was some sort of major Govt/Garda rep Body clash, the Army could be called into service on the streets if there was a sudden lack of Gardai there.

I hear that there would be an SC on any disciplinary Board set up to listen and rule in any case against the four Sgts, so hopefully he/she would advise that it would be unseemly, de jure and de facto, for the Minister or Commissioner to proceed against anpone walking out of a conference.

Your thoughts on this:

G Power

the garda are waking up and nothing the minister can do will stop this now!!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-defy-protest-restraint-calls-29158965.html

Gardai defy protest restraint calls

Gardai have ignored criticisms and warnings of disciplinary action by Justice Minister Alan Shatter and Commissioner Martin Callinan and held the latest in a series of protests.

PJ Stone, general secretary of the GRA, attacked Mr Kenny over claims that officers' representatives had walked out of public sector negotiations and that the reductions were fair.

"An Taoiseach was disingenuous on Monday when he blamed us for walking out of pay talks - and suggesting we could have made a deal," he said.

"We were never offered a seat in the negotiations between Government and the trade unions; members of An Garda Siochana have been sidelined since 1922.

"We see current proposals as blatantly unfair. How our Taoiseach can see this as fair is simply baffling.

"Any public servant working nine to five and earning up to 65,000 euro per year will not have their pay reduced; while a garda earning 38,000 euro per year will suffer a substantial pay cut: under the proposals before the trade union congress only gardai and nurses are targeted.

"The placard protest at the gates to Government Buildings is the third in a series of demonstrations after GRA members gathered outside the pay talks and last week at the Dail."

Commissioner Callinan on Tuesday told the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (Agsi) conference in Sligo that mid-ranking officers could endanger the force's standing in the community by joining protests. He said he was speaking specifically about an Agsi circular calling on off-duty officers not to report for work if they are called upon.

The Commissioner also said he would consider disciplining four gardai who walked out of the conference room when Mr Shatter launched a withering attack on garda representatives, claiming they had lost their way.

Yitzhak Rabin

The book should be thrown at them.

Part of being a Garda is remaining disciplined and not descending to the cheap tactics of the left.

Without discipline the force is nothing.

Boombastic

If they can't sit around the table and negotiate like adults without throwing strops and storming off like children, they are not the right people for the job and deserve to be sanctioned and/or fired.

The Muppet

Unless we really are now living in a dictatorship I don't understand why anyone would want to see these people punished for their peaceful protest.

Death and Taxes

Boombastic wrote: »

If they can't sit around the table and negotiate like adults without throwing strops and storming off like children, they are not the right people for the job and deserve to be sanctioned and/or fired.

They were NEVER invited to sit around the table and negoiate so you obviously know nothing about the situation. :mad:

DwightSchrute1

Boombastic wrote: »

If they can't sit around the table and negotiate like adults without throwing strops and storming off like children, they are not the right people for the job and deserve to be sanctioned and/or fired.

you do know that both Garda reps are not allowed to be part of the negotiations

Boombastic

WileyCoyote wrote: »

They were NEVER invited to sit around the table and negoiate so you obviously know nothing about the situation. :mad:

Walk out of the conference, whatever.. :rolleyes:

Yitzhak Rabin

WileyCoyote wrote: »

They were NEVER invited to sit around the table and negoiate so you obviously know nothing about the situation. :mad:

Do you understand why loyalty and discipline are essential in organisations like AGS and the DF?

Mr Jinx

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

The book should be thrown at them.

Part of being a Garda is remaining disciplined and not descending to the cheap tactics of the left.

Without discipline the force is nothing.

They were off duty and attending a conference of their rep body! I doubt standing up and walking out off a room has broken any discipline regulations.

Boombastic

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

you do know that both Garda reps are not allowed to be part of the negotiations

Boo, hoo, They'll just have to cry in their cornflakes

Lelantos

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Do you understand why loyalty and discipline are essential in organisations like AGS and the DF?

Loyalty to whom?

DwightSchrute1

Boombastic wrote: »

Boo, hoo, They'll just have to cry in their cornflakes

Well you do make a very valid point :rolleyes:

Paulzx

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Do you understand why loyalty and discipline are essential in organisations like AGS and the DF?

If the Garda Commissioner understood loyalty it would make things a lot easier

Death and Taxes

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Do you understand why loyalty and discipline are essential in organisations like AGS and the DF?

Yeah, they should should keep still and keep quiet while being publicly raped!
At least the DF get to sit down and negotiate unlike AGS who just get told that their wages are being slashed and tough tittie if the dont like it.

Boombastic

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yeah, they should should keep still and keep quiet while being publicly raped!
At least the DF get to sit down and negotiate unlike AGS who just get told that their wages are being slashed and tough tittie if the dont like it.

Publicaly raped now is it? :pac:

Death and Taxes

Boombastic wrote: »

Boo, hoo, They'll just have to cry in their cornflakes

Wow, the intellectual power of that cogent and well constructed arguement just blew me away!
Reminded me of your speech on National Anti Suicide Day 2007, when you suggested that those who did not believe in the Celtic Tiger should kill themselves, Bertie boy!
I mean you are Bertie Ahern aren't you?

jam_mac_jam

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yeah, they should should keep still and keep quiet while being publicly raped!
At least the DF get to sit down and negotiate unlike AGS who just get told that their wages are being slashed and tough tittie if the dont like it.

Raped is a touch hysterical is it not?

Boombastic

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Wow, the intellectual power of that cogent and well constructed arguement just blew me away!
Reminded me of your speech on National Anti Suicide Day 2007, when you suggested that those who did not believe in the Celtic Tiger should kill themselves, Bertie boy!
I mean you are Bertie Ahern aren't you?

Was Shatter going to rape them?

Death and Taxes

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Raped is a touch hysterical is it not?

Boombastic wrote: »

Was Shatter going to rape them?

rape 1 (rp)
n.1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.


tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
2. To seize and carry off by force.
3. To plunder or pillage.

Having your wages cut in contravention of an existing agreement without negotiation= being plundered=raped.

Boombastic

WileyCoyote wrote: »

rape 1 (rp)
n.1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.


tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
2. To seize and carry off by force.
3. To plunder or pillage.

Having your wages cut in contravention of an existing agreement without negotiation= being plundered=raped.

It's not when your wages and allowances where too high to begin with

HondaSami

Boombastic wrote: »

It's not when your wages and allowances where too high to begin with

Were they too high? it's a matter of opinion tbh.

Both sides are trying to save face here, Shatter is stubborn but he just might have met his match this time, AGS are not backing down this time, discipline them all what difference will it make.

kala85

its a disgrace on the ministers part. When are we going to look at the massive allowances and salaries that TDs and ministers are getting.
People are entitled to walk out if they want. Shatter is a disgrace. If the commissioner had any standing at all, he would resign as well. Disgraceful behaviour from shatter. An all out blue flu should happen.
What will happen with all the cutbacks and lack of garda cover is that law and order will completely break down.

humbert

Why is resigning not an option? In the private sector, if you're not happy with your pay you move.

I'm sure the average garda with their qualifications and experience could easily find well paid and secure job in the private sector.

dj jarvis

The Muppet wrote: »

Unless we really are now living in a dictatorship I don't understand why anyone would want to see these people punished for their peaceful protest.

part of the job contract is no strike , 100% disciplined
now saying that i think they have a point , but you CAN NOT have garda going on strike , walking away from talks or snubbing ministers ,

they are well paid in solid jobs and retire REAL early , all that is asked of them is to keep the peace of the state , ****ty job at times ,and even might get killed ( more road worker get killed than garda , but road workers dont get the very good remuneration that garda do )

but they know when the leave templemore they have to obey orders , like them or not

If they are unhappy with the pay and condition then leave the force , shatter would love it if loads left , sure he is trying to get rid of loads,

the Defence forces would not and should not do this "blue flu" out of respect for the chain of command , becasue once that is broken - it can only lead to disorder come times of deployment

Sorry garda - but put up or shut up, you signed the contract - no point whinging about it now.

Plazaman

Boombastic wrote: »

It's not when your wages and allowances where too high to begin with

And away we go...

Amirani

Paulzx wrote: »

If the Garda Commissioner understood loyalty it would make things a lot easier

The loyalty of the Garda Commissioner should be to the State, not his subordinates.

Kat1170

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yeah, they should should keep still and keep quiet while being publicly raped!
At least the DF get to sit down and negotiate unlike AGS who just get told that their wages are being slashed and tough tittie if the dont like it.

Eh, that would be a NO. Both Gardai and DF have Representative bodies not unions. Both are told what is happening. Neither can go on strike.

Lelantos

dj jarvis wrote: »

part of the job contract is no strike , 100% disciplined
now saying that i think they have a point , but you CAN NOT have garda going on strike , walking away from talks or snubbing ministers ,

they are well paid in solid jobs and retire REAL early , all that is asked of them is to keep the peace of the state , ****ty job at times ,and even might get killed ( more road worker get killed than garda , but road workers dont get the very good remuneration that garda do )

but they know when the leave templemore they have to obey orders , like them or not

If they are unhappy with the pay and condition then leave the force , shatter would love it if loads left , sure he is trying to get rid of loads,

the Defence forces would not and should not do this "blue flu" out of respect for the chain of command , becasue once that is broken - it can only lead to disorder come times of deployment

Sorry garda - but put up or shut up, you signed the contract - no point whinging about it now.

Actually, the gardai are answerable to the people of Ireland, that's their contract,,the sooner the politicians are taken out of the equation the better. Shatter & his cronies are trying to keep them in check, but a time will come when the gardai will turn on their paymasters, when that day comes it will lead to a mini revolution & the politicians will then realize that the gardai are not their personal enforcement agency

VinLieger

Shatter wont be happy till the army, solicitors, barristers and gardai all have to personally ask him to simply take a piss.

Midnight Sundance

Taking aside any opinions on their wages etc, I think they should be allowed to voice their opinions.
( who is to say that they all didn't have a bad dose of diarrhoea and needed the bathroom urgently??)