Sky Unlimited and Sky Talk

Tayla · 27-01-2013 12:46am

BrianHal wrote: »

Esat Telecommunications Limited

Mine keeps switching between Esat and Eircom.:(

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 12:47am

Tayla wrote: »

Mine keeps switching between Esat and Eircom.:(

Maybe I'll hold off on my rejoicing for the time being so...

Just as a matter of interest, what provider appears if you're a Vodafone customer?

jay93 · 27-01-2013 7:04am

BrianHal wrote: »

Maybe I'll hold off on my rejoicing for the time being so...

Just as a matter of interest, what provider appears if you're a Vodafone customer?

Vodafone broadband displays as Vodafone Ireland on speed test.

Dcully · 27-01-2013 9:54am

Lads sky said give it 10 days ,how many more times does this need to be said ?
Its clearly stated by sky ,I'm seeing fluctuations in speeds but there's no point coming in here to say in not happy after 3days,I'll be giving it 10 days just like sky have constantly stated.If after that period I'm not happy I'll be making some noise then but for now ill just let the sky hub do its thing.

Nonoperational · 27-01-2013 12:06pm

Cheeking speedtest.net is a completely unreliable way of checking how the connection is doing. If your getting speeds lower than expected check the line stats the router is showing. Sky will stop increasing the speed when the SNR margin is around the 6db mark. If you are syncing lower than expected and your SNR margin is a nice bit >6 then you have room to sync higher. If your syncing and your SNR margin is =6 then that's about all your line can handle.

Mine synced at 11976 from day one with a SNR margin of 6. It hasn't moved since and I don't expect it to.

positron · 27-01-2013 12:20pm

Dcully wrote: »

Lads sky said give it 10 days ,how many more times does this need to be said ?...

I would hate to be the sky tech support..!

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 1:10pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

Cheeking speedtest.net is a completely unreliable way of checking how the connection is doing. If your getting speeds lower than expected check the line stats the router is showing. Sky will stop increasing the speed when the SNR margin is around the 6db mark. If you are syncing lower than expected and your SNR margin is a nice bit >6 then you have room to sync higher. If your syncing and your SNR margin is =6 then that's about all your line can handle.

Mine synced at 11976 from day one with a SNR margin of 6. It hasn't moved since and I don't expect it to.

I'm looking around the router settings. I went to Maintenance -> Router Status and clicked [Show Statistics] and on that popup there's a "Noise Margin" with a downstream value of 6.9db. Is this the same as the SNR Margin you speak of?

Dcully · 27-01-2013 1:50pm

Speaking of SNR etc in the stats, how does these stats look?

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7168 kbps 384 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 12.0 dB
Noise Margin 14.4 dB 19.19 dB

naughto · 27-01-2013 1:52pm

not sure if this is true found it on another site

Attenuation.............Approximate Line Length............Potential Connection Speed
32db...................................2.3km.....................................16000kbps
35db...................................2.5km.....................................14500kbps
40db...................................2.9km.....................................11800kbps
45db...................................3.2km.......................................8500kbps
50db...................................3.6km.......................................6500kbps
55db...................................4.0km.......................................4500kbps
60db...................................4.3km.......................................3200kbps
65db...................................4.7km.......................................2000kbps

Noise Margin (AKA Signal to Noise Margin or Signal to Noise Ratio)
Relative strength of the DSL signal to Noise ratio. 6dB is the lowest dB manufactures specify for modem to be able to sync. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level. The higher the number the better for this measurement.

6dB or below is bad and will experience no sync or intermittent synch problems
7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions
11dB-20dB is good with no synch problems
20dB-28dB is excellent
29dB or above is outstanding

Line Attenuation

Measure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. Maximum signal loss recommendation is usually about 60dB. The lower the dB the better for this measurement.

20dB and below is outstanding
20dB-30dB is excellent
30dB-40dB is very good
40dB-50dB is good
50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues
60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues

Output Power

How much power modem (upstream) or DSLAM (downstream) is using. Maximum recommended is about 15dB. The lower the power the better for this measurement.

naughto · 27-01-2013 1:58pm

Dcully wrote: »

Speaking of SNR etc in the stats, how does these stats look?

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7168 kbps 384 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 12.0 dB
Noise Margin 14.4 dB 19.19 dB

you get a gold star:D
compare to mine

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5120 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 42.0 dB 27.0 dB
Noise Margin 20.2 dB 25.25 dB

Harry Deerpark · 27-01-2013 2:08pm

What about mine?

DSL Mode: ADSL2+
Speed: 12287 kbps /670 kbps
Line Attenuation (Down/Up): 28 dB /13 dB
DSL Noise Margin: 8 dB /18 dB

naughto · 27-01-2013 2:12pm

your noise margin is very low

Harry Deerpark · 27-01-2013 2:16pm

naughto wrote: »

your noise margin is very low

What does that entail? I don't like the look of it.

naughto · 27-01-2013 2:18pm

Harry Deerpark wrote: »

What does that entail? I don't like the look of it.

are u getting any disconnects??

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 2:29pm

naughto wrote: »

you get a gold star:D
compare to mine

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5120 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 42.0 dB 27.0 dB
Noise Margin 20.2 dB 25.25 dB

I reckon I'm about 2.5-3km from the exchange via the road, about 1km as the crow flies but I'm assuming the cabling follows the main road and not run through housing estates.
Are these figures ok or even promising?

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation. 23.5 dB 15.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 24.24 dB

Harry Deerpark · 27-01-2013 2:34pm

naughto wrote: »

are u getting any disconnects??

Once or twice a day. Maybe three times. I always figured it was high contention, but I was online one night at 4 or 5 a.m. and it disconnected. In fact, it disconnected early this morning at around 10-ish now that I think about it.

It used to be a lot worse, though.

I'm an avid torrenter and I don't really have much issues with torrents stopping.

At least I now know why I have random disconnects when most people are offline

Nonoperational · 27-01-2013 3:37pm

The SNR margin values are different if your on ADSL or ADSL 2+. On ADSL 2+ then a SNR margin of 6 is fine. Mine is between 5.5 and 6 for years and I never get a disconnect.

Dcully wrote: »

Speaking of SNR etc in the stats, how does these stats look?

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7168 kbps 384 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 12.0 dB
Noise Margin 14.4 dB 19.19 dB

That looks like ADSL not ADSL 2+, I'm not sure if ADSL 2+ is available on all exchanges. Your attenuation and SNR Margin is good, if you were on ADSL 2+ you could go a lot higher speed wise I'd say.

Harry Deerpark wrote: »

What about mine?

DSL Mode: ADSL2+
Speed: 12287 kbps /670 kbps
Line Attenuation (Down/Up): 28 dB /13 dB
DSL Noise Margin: 8 dB /18 dB

That looks fine for ADSL2+. You'd be happy with a DSL noise margin around 6. You could expect speeds a little higher than this. My attenuation is 35 and I get speeds around the same as this.

BrianHal wrote: »

I reckon I'm about 2.5-3km from the exchange via the road, about 1km as the crow flies but I'm assuming the cabling follows the main road and not run through housing estates.
Are these figures ok or even promising?

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation. 23.5 dB 15.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 24.24 dB

That looks like it's syncing around the max speed for adsl 1, but the noise margin is a bit low I'd say. Might be a bit of noise on the line.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert on this, just giving my opinions!

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 3:45pm

Harry Deerpark wrote: »

Once or twice a day. Maybe three times. I always figured it was high contention, but I was online one night at 4 or 5 a.m. and it disconnected. In fact, it disconnected early this morning at around 10-ish now that I think about it.

It used to be a lot worse, though.

I'm an avid torrenter and I don't really have much issues with torrents stopping.

At least I now know why I have random disconnects when most people are offline

I had the same problem with VF starting April 2011. Up to then, there was never a problem and from then for about three months it happened anything up to once every ten minutes. It's been much better since but there is an odd time when it acts up like the original April. It is unbelievably frustrating when it happens.

Does anyone know if the ISPs have any control over the Noise Margin or is that only a value that is shown but can't be changed?

Harry Deerpark · 27-01-2013 3:49pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

That looks fine for ADSL2+. You'd be happy with a DSL noise margin around 6. You could expect speeds a little higher than this. My attenuation is 35 and I get speeds around the same as this.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert on this, just giving my opinions!

I've yet to switch over to Sky, but they said my line can handle 15 Mb. I'll post Speedtest results of both Eircom and Sky when I get my hub hopefully this week.

Cheerful Spring · 27-01-2013 4:03pm

Hogzy wrote: »

Funnily enough my speeds seem to be getting worse. I was told my line can support 12mb. When I got the sky hub I was hitting 9.8mb. Thought over the 10 days that would go up to 12 but its doing the opposite. For the last 2 days I have barely been able to break 9mb.

My downstream connection speed has gone from 11374 to 10574 in the 3 days that I have sky broadband. Really not happy with that.

If you were told 12meg.-expect a 1 to 2mb loss or more of download speed.

Eircom, for example, has 8mb and 24mb packages available on their website, but it rare anyone gets even close to those speeds

People are asking themselves is it worth it to switch to Sky? Yes if you care about price in the short term. But most will still get the same speeds they had with Eircom.

If 4G can deliver next year for customers, and pricing and data limits are excellent. I expect DSL to be only used by a minority of the population ( tens of thousands at most) and i expect DSL to be not be used anymore in urban areas and towns in the next 2 to 3 years (4 years at most)

Harry Deerpark · 27-01-2013 4:06pm

BrianHal wrote: »

I had the same problem with VF starting April 2011. Up to then, there was never a problem and from then for about three months it happened anything up to once every ten minutes. It's been much better since but there is an odd time when it acts up like the original April. It is unbelievably frustrating when it happens.

Does anyone know if the ISPs have any control over the Noise Margin or is that only a value that is shown but can't be changed?

I know why mine was a lot worse, though, I had my router upstairs and a 10 meter phone line connecting it to the phone socket. Instead, I left the router downstair beside the phone and the socket, bought a 10 meter DSL cable, drilled a hole in the roof and ran it to the computer.

Haven't had a "time out" or a "drop out" since.

Now that I think about, it wouldn't disconnect that often, it would just stop working despite being connected. After I reset the router, it would work again, but I'd have to do this every hour and sometimes, every 30 minutes.

Another problem I had was my firewall setting had to be lowered because it was blocking people from connecting to my torrents. After I fixed that, I had no problem with Eircom, other than it being too expensive and terrible upload speeds.

Basq · 27-01-2013 5:42pm

Was given an activation date of June 30th, but plugged Sky Hub in just there and all was working.

As both my Sky and Vodafone BB appear to be working, what date should I expect Vodafone to credit my bill back to? I presume the activation date of Sky.

brian ireland · 27-01-2013 6:35pm

Basq wrote: »

Was given an activation date of June 30th, but plugged Sky Hub in just there and all was working.

As both my Sky and Vodafone BB appear to be working, what date should I expect Vodafone to credit my bill back to? I presume the activation date of Sky.

Jan or June??

Basq · 27-01-2013 6:36pm

brian ireland wrote: »

Jan or June??

Sorry.. meant January!

adox · 27-01-2013 6:40pm

Basq wrote: »

Was given an activation date of June 30th, but plugged Sky Hub in just there and all was working.

As both my Sky and Vodafone BB appear to be working, what date should I expect Vodafone to credit my bill back to? I presume the activation date of Sky.

Good luck with that. I'm still in dispute with Vodafone. They never disconnected my Broadband. It was only after 3 days of having Sky running I rang Vodafone to see if they would credit my account as they charged me up until February 13th. They told me the Broadband was still running and hadn't been cancelled. :mad:

They have now cancelled it although they said it takes 10 days to cancel. :rolleyes:

I've spoke to them on the phone, emailed them and also started a thread in the Vodafone forum. On there the rep told me I will get no refund as you have to give 30 days notice. :rolleyes:

They have been awful to deal with and quite unhelpful. I'm just trying to make sure now that everything once and for all is cancelled.

I'd advise you to ring them as soon as you can and make sure you are cancelled.

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 7:11pm

adox wrote: »

Good luck with that. I'm still in dispute with Vodafone. They never disconnected my Broadband. It was only after 3 days of having Sky running I rang Vodafone to see if they would credit my account as they charged me up until February 13th. They told me the Broadband was still running and hadn't been cancelled. :mad:

They have now cancelled it although they said it takes 10 days to cancel. :rolleyes:

I've spoke to them on the phone, emailed them and also started a thread in the Vodafone forum. On there the rep told me I will get no refund as you have to give 30 days notice. :rolleyes:

They have been awful to deal with and quite unhelpful. I'm just trying to make sure now that everything once and for all is cancelled.

I'd advise you to ring them as soon as you can and make sure you are cancelled.

Interesting how they say it takes 10 days, when their website for getting up and running with Home Phone and Broadband says that there will be no interruption in service etc. It seems that when you sign over to VF from eircom or whoever it's no problem but when you want to leave they act like something you'd expect from Ryanair.

Basq · 27-01-2013 7:31pm

Popped a message over on the Vodafone forum.. have dates of orders, last bills etc.

But actually since I plugged in the Sky hub, my connection has been incredibly volatile - have had to reboot the router twice since I connected it about 4.30pm.

Not good!

thund3rbird_ · 27-01-2013 8:13pm

checked my VF account & showing no voice or broadband services on the line

I'm switched over since last Monday & never phoned VF to cancel anything.

no mention of any 30day notice period

maybe I got lucky??

tcawley29 · 27-01-2013 8:14pm

Basq wrote: »

Popped a message over on the Vodafone forum.. have dates of orders, last bills etc.

But actually since I plugged in the Sky hub, my connection has been incredibly volatile - have had to reboot the router twice since I connected it about 4.30pm.

Not good!

I thought you were meant to leave that connected for 10 days straight without rebooting :O

Basq · 27-01-2013 8:32pm

tcawley29 wrote: »

I thought you were meant to leave that connected for 10 days straight without rebooting :O

If you've no connection for a solid half hour, what else are you meant to do?

EDIT: Short disconnection seems fine: http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Broadband-Setup-Connection/reboot-during-initial-testing-first-10-days/td-p/306895

tcawley29 · 27-01-2013 9:23pm

Basq wrote: »

If you've no connection for a solid half hour, what else are you meant to do?

EDIT: Short disconnection seems fine: http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Broadband-Setup-Connection/reboot-during-initial-testing-first-10-days/td-p/306895

Since I'm not yet a sky broadband customer I don't know what the router settings are like but what I would have looked for is a way to reset the adsl line instead. The sooner they start selling broadband again the better because I'll be switching asap

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 9:30pm

tcawley29 wrote: »

Since I'm not yet a sky broadband customer I don't know what the router settings are like but what I would have looked for is a way to reset the adsl line instead. The sooner they start selling broadband again the better because I'll be switching asap

Is resetting the ADSL line something that the customer/end-user can do or is this someting that is done from the ISP end?

tcawley29 · 27-01-2013 9:31pm

BrianHal wrote: »

Is resetting the ADSL line something that the customer/end-user can do or is this someting that is done from the ISP end?

I've been able to do it on zyxel routers in the past

naughto · 27-01-2013 9:38pm

how much have ye guys being downloading since it went live??

BrianHal · 27-01-2013 9:42pm

naughto wrote: »

how much have ye guys being downloading since it went live??

Just browsing really, I haven't actually downloaded anything apart from maybe a podcast as my PC isn't connected to the router yet. I'm waiting for new (replacement) HomePlug devices to arrive, hopefully tomorrow some time.

naughto · 27-01-2013 10:03pm

i have this on my account under connection details

Your Connection Details

Line testing is not currently in progress on your telephone line.

We continually look for ways to improve the quality of your broadband connection. Please check back here for updates.

i thought they would be testing the line for 10 days mine went live on the 24th

Nonoperational · 27-01-2013 10:10pm

They specifically tell you NOT to contact your previous provider. That's automatically taken care of when you switch. If you phone your previous provider to cancel then they can cancel the line and you'll have a lot of hassle.

adox · 27-01-2013 10:28pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

They specifically tell you NOT to contact your previous provider. That's automatically taken care of when you switch. If you phone your previoud provider to cancel then they can cancel the line and you'll have a lot of hassle.

That's all well and good and I initially let it play out that way but I have been in contact with both companies since my Broadband went live with Sky and when I informed them that Vodafone hadn't cancelled my broadband they said they had a lot of complaints about th same. Sky said they sent the request on my behalf along with the line and calls switch. If I didn't contact Vodafaone I'd be getting billed by two providers.

I would encourage anyone who is doubt about the switch over when your Sky account goes live to contact their original provider to make sure you have been cancelled.

Basq · 27-01-2013 10:37pm

Actually - I'd be wary about using the term "cancel" to anyone in VF until I was sure both my broadband and phone was switched over to Sky..

.. popped a message over on the VF helpdesk but will retain from letting them know my account details until I see how it plays out.

Nonoperational · 27-01-2013 10:40pm

adox wrote: »

That's all well and good and I initially let it play out that way but I have been in contact with both companies since my Broadband went live with Sky and when I informed them that Vodafone hadn't cancelled my broadband they said they had a lot of complaints about th same. Sky said they sent the request on my behalf along with the line and calls switch. If I didn't contact Vodafaone I'd be getting billed by two providers.

I would encourage anyone who is doubt about the switch over when your Sky account goes live to contact their original provider to make sure you have been cancelled.

When is your activation date on the letter that came with your modem?

adox · 27-01-2013 10:51pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

When is your activation date on the letter that came with your modem?

My activation date was the 21st.

muffler · 27-01-2013 11:07pm

When I was signing up for this the Sky rep told me not to contact VF as they (Sky) were taking care of it. I told her that I had asked the question about giving notice to VF (when out of contract) here on their talk to forum and that VF said I had to give 30 days notice. She told me that was not correct as this didnt apply when simply changing providers. In fairness one of the VF reps has more or less admitted that here but still advised people to contact them and cancel. I cant understand this as you either give notice or not and a VF rep "advising" people to cancel is a bit shady to say the least.

The other thing the Sky rep mentioned was (in relation to calls I think) that if I contacted VF before Sky had me set up I could be cut off immediately and I could be without the service until such time as Sky had me up and running.

Food for thought.

Basq · 27-01-2013 11:14pm

muffler wrote: »

The other thing the Sky rep mentioned was (in relation to calls I think) that if I contacted VF before Sky had me set up I could be cut off immediately and I could be without the service until such time as Sky had me up and running.

Food for thought.

^ Yeah.. that's the exact reason I'm with-holding my account details from Vodafone until I see how all this plays out.

I also asked Sky when onto them about to having to contact Vodafone, and they told me they'd take care of that.

I'm a little wary that both the Sky and Vodafone broadband service are working on my line.. but hey-ho!

Kristopherus · 27-01-2013 11:15pm

Thats the way it should work. Similar to changing mobile networks. Eircom, in particular, are acting the clown with their demand for 30 days notice to "port".

Kristopherus · 27-01-2013 11:22pm

Basq wrote: »

^ Yeah.. that's the exact reason I'm with-holding my account details from Vodafone until I see how all this plays out.

I also asked Sky when onto them about to having to contact Vodafone, and they told me they'd take care of that.

I'm a little wary that both the Sky and Vodafone broadband service are working on my line.. but hey-ho!

You will not be activated until 30th. So your speeds could be all over the shop. I'm in the same boat as you, so I stuck the Sky box on yesterday morning. With Voda I get 5.8mbs to 6.2mbs. With Sky I get a constant 6.4. I was told by Sky that my line is good for 24mbs. I would be ecstatic if I go into double figures. I dont expect to see any improvement until well after I'm officially activated.

adox · 27-01-2013 11:25pm

All I'm saying to people is to keep an eye on your accounts. For me I followed Sky's advice and didnt contact Vodafone at all. When I switched my hub on, the day after my activation date, my Vodafone broadband was still live.

It was only 3 days after this that I decided to contact Vodafone about billing me up until the middle of next month and it was only then that I found out that the broadband was still live and would remain live. If I hadn't of contacted them they would still be billing me. I got on to Sky to complain as they had told me they would take care of it all but obviously didnt, although they did say that they instructed Vodafone to switch everything so the fault was with Vodafone, just the sort of mess I had hoped not to get involved in.

I certainly would agree to leave everything be until you are sure you are switched to Sky but I wouldn't take it as a given that everything with you old provider has been cancelled and unfortunately it seems no one will tell, you have to pursue it yourself.

muffler · 27-01-2013 11:28pm

Thankfully all calls to Sky and the likes are recorded and the law allows us to obtain the transcripts of those calls so in the unlikely event of me getting double billed I know who to contact first

Kristopherus · 27-01-2013 11:29pm

I'd be getting back to Sky if my Voda account was still alive. If they want my business they should ensure that everything is operating smoothly, especially as they have advised that they will look after all aspects of the transfer.

Dcully · 27-01-2013 11:40pm

I havent contacted eircom about my cancellation but i got an email to say i can no longer access eircom music hub as im either in another country or cancelled.

Im guessing sky have indeed cancelled for me, music hub is the lol tbh, no loss at all.

kleefarr · 27-01-2013 11:43pm

So the introductory deal is over all in for €21.50 or whatever it was?
How much is it to join Sky broadband with phone and tv package when my contract runs out with Vodafone?

Sky Unlimited and Sky Talk

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