David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 12:38AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

As for evidence that the UVF is behind this, care to show it ?
Because I don't see it anywhere here.

http://youtu.be/S0TLQBOUfFs

From about 9 minutes in.
Knock yourself out.

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 12:49AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

http://youtu.be/S0TLQBOUfFs

From about 9 minutes in.
Knock yourself out.

I saw that video as well before, and I don't see any proof in it that the UVF is orchestrating things.

Sure, there will be UVF members or sympathisers amongs the rioters, just like there were in the summer when things went bad.
But that doesn't mean this is all being set up by the UVF.

Ironically, a few days ago it was the UDA setting this all up according to some.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 12:53AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I saw that video as well before, and I don't see any proof in it that the UVF is orchestrating things.

Sure, there will be UVF members or sympathisers amongs the rioters, just like there were in the summer when things went bad.
But that doesn't mean this is all being set up by the UVF.

I guess you're only going to see what you want to see.
Let me tell you what I see.
I see bricks raining down on the PSNI. Then they abruptly stop and Billy Hutchinson and some senior UVF figures step forward demanding to speak to 'whoever's in charge'.
Seems to me Billy and the boys can turn it on and off like a tap.

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 12:59AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I saw that video as well before, and I don't see any proof in it that the UVF is orchestrating things.

Sure, there will be UVF members or sympathisers amongs the rioters, just like there were in the summer when things went bad.
But that doesn't mean this is all being set up by the UVF.

Ironically, a few days ago it was the UDA setting this all up according to some.

you have your blinkers on if you think there is no sinister element to these protests

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 01:01AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Ironically, a few days ago it was the UDA setting this all up according to some.

According to who? The UDA have not been overly enthusiastic about the protests from the start.

marozz · 13-01-2013 01:04AM

Maybe it's a good opportunity for nationalist parties to get together and
make a concession, for the good of the community as a whole,
and let the loyalists have their flag fly all year round.
It would also be interesting to see the loyalist
reaction to such a "consession".

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 01:04AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20929658

The PSNI have mentioned the UVF, they havent mentioned the UDA now have they??

Senior members they say, not just mere members or sympathizers.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I saw that video as well before, and I don't see any proof in it that the UVF is orchestrating things.

Sure, there will be UVF members or sympathisers amongs the rioters, just like there were in the summer when things went bad.
But that doesn't mean this is all being set up by the UVF.

Ironically, a few days ago it was the UDA setting this all up according to some.

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 01:05AM

They would see it as weakness and go after other things.

marozz wrote: »

Maybe it's a good opportunity for nationalist parties to get together and
make a concession, for the good of the community as a whole,
and let the loyalists have their flag fly all year round.
It would also be interesting to see the loyalist
reaction to such a "consession".

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 01:06AM

marozz wrote: »

Maybe it's a good opportunity for nationalist parties to get together and
make a concession, for the good of the community as a whole,
and let the loyalists have their flag fly all year round.
It would also be interesting to see the loyalist
reaction to such a "consession".

its not down to nationalists its down to democracy. democracy is the most important factor in this for me

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:08AM

marozz wrote: »

Maybe it's a good opportunity for nationalist parties to get together and
make a concession, for the good of the community as a whole,
and let the loyalists have their flag fly all year round.
It would also be interesting to see the loyalist
reaction to such a "consession".

Or how about those people currently breaking the law 'concede' to stop doing so?

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 01:08AM

I checked some of the other threads because I was sure I read some things there where people claimed the UDA was behind it all, but can't find it.

My bad

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:10AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I checked some of the other threads because I was sure I read some things there where people claimed the UDA was behind it all, but can't find it.

My bad

Too busy drug dealing. Someone's got to get the coke in to refresh all those hardworking protesters doing double shifts, after all.

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 01:15AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That has been mentioned in other threads as well: It's not simply about that flag anymore, but about lack of education, a feeling of abandonment by the government, unemployment,...

If it were about these they would be waving the red flag and not the Union Jack; but they are not are they? Its about the rise of social power among those from a Roman Catholic background. They want to set the clock back to 1960.

13-01-2013 01:18AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's your opinion, not fact.
And I think it's an idiotic one at best, nobody apart from dissidents are trying to get NI back to those times.

As for 'going soft' ?

I don't know about you but 100 arrests, using water cannons and plastic bullets is not my definition of 'soft policing'.

Less than 3 a night since the start, real hard nuts.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I saw that video as well before, and I don't see any proof in it that the UVF is orchestrating things.

I'm shocked.

jrichardca · 13-01-2013 01:21AM

"...I think all the girls that are in this fair country
Should begin making children as fast as they can
So if ever Her Majesty asks for an Army
We'll be able to send her as many as Dan..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZeMumrLwJ4

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 01:25AM

SoulandForm wrote: »

If it were about these they would be waving the red flag and not the Union Jack; but they are not are they? Its about the rise of social power among those from a Roman Catholic background. They want to set the clock back to 1960.

If they wanted to set the clock back there's faster and more direct ways to do that, namely taking up arms again.

Like I said: The original protest may have been about the flag, it's not anymore and is now a mix of social unrest, a bunch of c*nts wrecking the place for their own entertainment, others who are frustrated about unemployment,...

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 01:27AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

a bunch of c*nts

i wholeheartedly agree

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 01:27AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If they wanted to set the clock back there's faster and more direct ways to do that, namely taking up arms again.

If you listen closely to what Loyalist leaders are saying that happening is a strong possibility.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:28AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If they wanted to set the clock back there's faster and more direct ways to do that, namely taking up arms again.

Like I said: The original protest may have been about the flag, it's not anymore and is now a mix of social unrest, a bunch of c*nts wrecking the place for their own entertainment, others who are frustrated about unemployment,...

This began, as Trimble pointed out, with the DUP trying to point-score over Alliance. It got hijacked by the UVF, who failed miserably as a political entity, in an attempt to retain relevance among their core audience. Now it's a bunch of bowsies going out to riot for entertainment. It's time they started jailing everyone caught breaking the law and withholding their dole cheques.

junder · 13-01-2013 01:29AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

And she should be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for doing so.

She's not doing anything illegal. But yer arrest the protestors that will really calm things down.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:34AM

junder wrote: »

She's not doing anything illegal. But yer arrest the protestors that will really calm things down.

She's blocking the Queen's highway, according to you. Let's see if she's still doing that come the Twelfth.

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 01:36AM

yeah imagine the police doing their job arresting people who are breaking the law.

junder · 13-01-2013 01:37AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This began, as Trimble pointed out, with the DUP trying to point-score over Alliance. It got hijacked by the UVF, who failed miserably as a political entity, in an attempt to retain relevance among their core audience. Now it's a bunch of bowsies going out to riot for entertainment. It's time they started jailing everyone caught breaking the law and withholding their dole cheques.

Perhaps you should Actully listen to what mat baggot actually said.he said while thier are elements of the UVF involved namely east Belfast, the UVF as a whole is not and that those in east Belfast are acting outside the main UVF. Billy Hutchison has called for any UVF members taking part in the riots to stop. If the entire UVF where involved every area would be rioting. FYI the areas rioting last in rathcoole are not UVF areas.

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 01:37AM

blahfckingblah wrote: »

yeah imagine the police doing their job arresting people who are breaking the law.

They do arrest rioters.

As for arresting protesters: Are they doing anything illegal then ?

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:41AM

junder wrote: »

Billy Hutchison has called for any UVF members taking part in the riots to stop.

He can't be calling very loud. They were standing right next to him in that video.

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 01:41AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

They do arrest rioters.

As for arresting protesters: Are they doing anything illegal then ?

I'm not opposed to any peaceful protest.

so you think that 100 people since the 3rd of december is good policing, theres no deterrent

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 01:42AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He can't be calling very loud. They were standing right next to him in that video.

Were they throwing bricks in that video ?

For all we know they were there to try and calm things down, Hutchinson was asking for the person in charge to talk things over apparently.

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I'm not opposed to any peaceful protest.

so you think that 100 people since the 3rd of december is good policing, theres no deterrent

No, I don't think the PSNI is doing a good job.
But they're also not standing by idle.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:44AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Were they throwing bricks in that video ?

Rewind it to about 8 minutes. It's like it's snowing halfers.

junder · 13-01-2013 01:45AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

She's blocking the Queen's highway, according to you. Let's see if she's still doing that come the Twelfth.

It's not illegal unless police issue a dispersal order which can only be issued in very specific circumstances. In my area the police have taken a very different stance to other areas which has resulted in no trouble. Infact I would like to congratulate the Psni for the way they policed the local protest to where I live, they facilitated the protest, which lasted a specific time, then dispersed with out trouble. All emergency services where allowed through

junder · 13-01-2013 01:47AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He can't be calling very loud. They were standing right next to him in that video.

So you know who's who in the UVF?

David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

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