David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

GRMA

Great minds....

thebman

Thing that confuses me is how does flying the flag on the same days they do in the rest of Britain making the place less British?

Isn't it making it more British?

VinLieger

thebman wrote: »

Thing that confuses me is how does flying the flag on the same days they do in the rest of Britain making the place less British?

Isn't it making it more British?

Comes back to the lack of education and its mainly due to them not being comfortable with the fact they arent in complete control anymore

Seanchai

SoulandForm wrote: »

David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

I am absolutely certain that during the past week Willie Fraser was interviewed by either Drivertime or Matt Cooper where he said precisely the same: this protest is not about the flag. In other words, McKittrick is adding nothing to this.

jonsnow

Damn right its not about the flag.It about the UVF/UDA commanders warning the British government that they can still drag the north back into anarchy if the Historical Enquiries team get any grand notions.

clairefontaine

I don't understand why they didnt put two flags up, one loyalist, one republican or whatever you call it, and leave them both up all year round.

OR as part of the peace process, they should have designed a new flag altogether.

Symbols are important but this could have easily been avoided.

SoulandForm

clairefontaine wrote: »

I don't understand why they didnt put two flags up, one loyalist, one republican or whatever you call it, and leave them both up all year round.

OR as part of the peace process, they should have designed a new flag altogether.

Symbols are important but this could have easily been avoided.

That was suggested first by Sinn Fein I believe. That would be much more unacceptable to Loyalists, much, much, more.

SoulandForm

In fairness to the UDA they havent been involved in this as far as I have been able to work out. Certainly the so-called Beast from the East who has taken over the UVF in Belfast is probably very involved. The HET is only part of it.

jonsnow wrote: »

Damn right its not about the flag.It about the UVF/UDA commanders warning the British government that they can still drag the north back into anarchy if the Historical Enquiries team get any grand notions.

InchicoreDude

clairefontaine wrote: »

I don't understand why they didnt put two flags up, one loyalist, one republican or whatever you call it, and leave them both up all year round.

OR as part of the peace process, they should have designed a new flag altogether.

Symbols are important but this could have easily been avoided.

Would require logical thinking which has always been missing in NI.

Giblet

Willie was just spotted outside the Palazzo Valentini in Rome

Jelle1880

sure joe wrote: »

as i see it
flag comes down republicans 1 - 0 unionists

unionists attack their own police force republicans 2 -0 unionists

just waiting for police to attack unionist riotes like they would repulicans. then we have a hatrick

FYI, the PSNI has repeatedly attacked protesters while leaving the brick-throwing idiots from the Republican side alone.
They also seem to think it's a marvellous idea to guide protesters back home past areas like the Short Strand.

And today a suspect package was found along the route protesters would follow.

edit:

By Aine Fox
Published on Thursday 10 January 2013 20:21

Almost half of the people living in Ireland - combining Northern Ireland and the Republic - believe it was wrong to limit the number of days the Union flag flies at Belfast City Hall.

Just 36 per cent of those living in Dublin agree with the decision made by Belfast City councillors on December 3, which preceded six months of protests and riots on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Forty-eight per cent branded the decision incorrect.

An average of 46 per cent altogether across Ireland said they felt the flag should not have been removed, to fly only on designated days.

The Red C opinion poll for Paddy Power asked people across Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster if they agreed with the decision. An average of 18 per cent said they did not know.

And 44 per cent of Sinn Fein voters - whose party had originally called for the flag to be removed entirely - said they felt the decision was wrong.

blahfckingblah

Jelle1880 wrote: »

FYI, the PSNI has repeatedly attacked protesters while leaving the brick-throwing idiots from the Republican side alone.

please don't tell me you see them as the belligerents in this scene

Jelle1880

No, but it paints a different picture than that which sure joe is trying to paint (that of the PSNI going soft on Loyalists as opposed to their response against Republicans).

sure joe

Jelle1880 wrote: »

No, but it paints a different picture than that which sure joe is trying to paint (that of the PSNI going soft on Loyalists as opposed to their response against Republicans).

who said they were going soft on loyalists. clearly the majority of them are loyalists

Jelle1880

Well you seemed to claim that the PSNI don't attack loyalists like they do republicans, apologies if that was misunderstood.

sure joe

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Well you seemed to claim that the PSNI don't attack loyalists like they do republicans, apologies if that was misunderstood.

i dont think any impartial person would disagree with that. its amazing that the loyalists now see themselves as victims.

SoulandForm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Well you seemed to claim that the PSNI don't attack loyalists like they do republicans, apologies if that was misunderstood.

Why have they allowed the Loyalists night after night to block roads without taking them off the roads as they did with the residents of Ardoyne to allow the Orange Order which celebrates anti-RC pogroms to pass by?

SoulandForm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

FYI, the PSNI has repeatedly attacked protesters while leaving the brick-throwing idiots from the Republican side alone.
They also seem to think it's a marvellous idea to guide protesters back home past areas like the Short Strand.

I see have the swallowed the Britain First!/Jame Bryson version of events. Well done.

Jelle1880

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why have they allowed the Loyalists night after night to block roads without taking them off the roads as they did with the residents of Ardoyne to allow the Orange Order which celebrates anti-RC pogroms to pass by?

You think officers are getting injured because they're allowing it to happen ?

They've been at it pretty much every night to get those blockades gone, which leads to rioting.

Not much more they can do, right ?

sure joe: I think you're stuck in the RUC times.
It's still not 50/50, but the amount of Catholics in the PSNI has increased immensely. And the fact that a police officer may or may not be Protestant does not necessarily mean he/she is a Loyalist.

So no, they're not 'protecting the Loyalist rioters', on the contrary.

SoulandForm: Not a clue what you're on about, but the evidence is out there which shows that protesters are re-routed past Republican areas, from which they are then attacked.
If a SF Councillor in Short Strand admits that Republican youths were the ones attacking then I'm pretty sure that's how it's happened.

SoulandForm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You think officers are getting injured because they're allowing it to happen ?

No- but the fact is that they are going softly on the actual rioters and they are not freeing for normal traffic. This is emboldening the Loyalists and sending a pretty frightening message to the nationalist community.

Cavehill Red

junder wrote: »

Poor pet indeed, still, she's the one blocking the roads up here along with many like her.

And she should be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for doing so.

SoulandForm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

They've been at it pretty much every night to get those blockades gone, which leads to rioting.

They have not.

The riots are about Loyalist Ulster showing just how "Loyal" it is. The Loyalists are trying to push Northern Ireland back into the "Troubles" because they believe that that will secure them their position as top dogs, or at least their tribe as top dogs, in the face of rising social and economic power in the RC community.

Jelle1880

That's your opinion, not fact.
And I think it's an idiotic one at best, nobody apart from dissidents are trying to get NI back to those times.

As for 'going soft' ?

I don't know about you but 100 arrests, using water cannons and plastic bullets is not my definition of 'soft policing'.

Cavehill Red

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's your opinion, not fact.
And I think it's an idiotic one at best, nobody apart from dissidents are trying to get NI back to those times.

And that's your opinion too.
I think the UVF's involvement in attempting to destabilise the North is of enormous concern, and no less threatening to peace than the activities of dissident Republicans, arguably moreso, given the apparent support they are garnering from the school dropouts in their community.

Jelle1880

Cavehill Red wrote: »

And that's your opinion too.
I think the UVF's involvement in attempting to destabilise the North is of enormous concern, and no less threatening to peace than the activities of dissident Republicans, arguably moreso, given the apparent support they are garnering from the school dropouts in their community.

There is no proof that this is an orchestrated operation by the UVF (or the UDA, as claimed by others).

blahfckingblah

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's your opinion, not fact.
And I think it's an idiotic one at best, nobody apart from dissidents are trying to get NI back to those times.

As for 'going soft' ?

I don't know about you but 100 arrests, using water cannons and plastic bullets is not my definition of 'soft policing'.

enlighten us so if it is such a ridiculous opinion as to why they are continuing to hold a city to siege, disrupt day to day life, ruin homes businesses and property,and damage their economy??

Cavehill Red

Jelle1880 wrote: »

There is no proof that this is an orchestrated operation by the UVF (or the UDA, as claimed by others).

Your head's a marley if you don't think that the UVF are orchestrating much of this. They've been caught on video doing so, above.

Jelle1880

blahfckingblah wrote: »

enlighten us so if it is such a ridiculous opinion as to why they are continuing to hold a city to siege, disrupt day to day life, ruin homes businesses and property,and damage their economy??

That has been mentioned in other threads as well: It's not simply about that flag anymore, but about lack of education, a feeling of abandonment by the government, unemployment,...

You'll see it happen in every country where a significant amount of the youth has the same worries which I just mentioned.

But because we're talking about Northern Ireland it automatically means (to some) that they want a return to The Troubles ?

Nonsense.

As for evidence that the UVF is behind this, care to show it ?
Because I don't see it anywhere here.

maccored

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's not simply about that flag anymore, but about lack of education, a feeling of abandonment by the government, unemployment,....

how convenient they suddenly get worried about those issues when the whole flag issue was seen for what it was.

blahfckingblah

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That has been mentioned in other threads as well: It's not simply about that flag anymore, but about lack of education, a feeling of abandonment by the government, unemployment,...

You'll see it happen in every country where a significant amount of the youth has the same worries which I just mentioned.

But because we're talking about Northern Ireland it automatically means (to some) that they want a return to The Troubles ?

Nonsense.

As for evidence that the UVF is behind this, care to show it ?
Because I don't see it anywhere here.

ok then if thats the case what is their goal? what do you think needs to happen before they call an end to it? theres more than unemployment and dissatisfaction with the government at play or dublin would be in bits long ago