Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 04:59PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Okay then. What you've written is a load of ill-informed horse ****. Prove that wrong.

Right back at ya

Annasopra · 02-01-2013 05:01PM

HHobo wrote: »

If this were a serious debate, certainly it would be expected of me to provide you with citations. It isn't. I couldn't be bothered.

That's fine.

Don't expect us to take any of your "opinions" seriously.

Earthhorse · 02-01-2013 05:02PM

Most people have prejudices, I don't think most people are racist however.

curlzy · 02-01-2013 05:05PM

curlzy wrote: »

Have to agree with this, this is After Hours. Who said we have to put forth scientic evidence for our opinions? This isn't a serious forum.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you're claiming that 'lol, racism and xenophobia are natural, lol' then that is pretty serious; it's skirts dangerously close to excusing it (or could be misconstrued as such by knuckle-draggers) which mean such claims should be challenged whether it's in AH or not.

So some opinions you have to back up and others you don't? And who gets to decide what opinions are important enough to need citations? Surely it should be added to the charter/rules if that's the case? I've seen unfounded offensive twaddle posted as an "opinion", but this is After Hours and if I don't like it I can go elsewhere on the site and do sometimes, especially when pro-lifers annoy me. There are politics and debating forums for people that want to argue back and forth. This is a forum supposed to apparently resemble the conversations you'd have in a pub and I'd imagine you'd be told where to go if you asked for citations there

HHobo · 02-01-2013 05:05PM

mango salsa wrote: »

That's fine.

Don't expect us to take any of your opinions seriously though.

Take them anyway you please. It is interesting though that you seem to think wild conjecture don't require any proving. The amount of claims being made here, you are fine with them all, except the one where I can't be bothered to source an actual study for you

. The internet is a stange place.

Wicklowandy · 02-01-2013 05:06PM

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=uykcRywjjYo

HHobo · 02-01-2013 05:20PM

Given all the whining it illicited, here you go folks, the study I was thinking of

"Perceptual Other-Race Training Reduces Implicit Racial Bias," a study published Jan. 21, 2009, in PLoS ONE, the online, peer-reviewed journal from the Public Library of Science.

Some blurb
"The idea is this that this sort of perceptual training gives you a new tool to address the kinds of biases people show unconsciously and may not even be aware they have," said Michael J. Tarr, a Brown cognitive neuroscientist and a senior author of the paper. "There is a strong connection between the way we perceive and categorize the world and the way we end up making stereotypes and generalizations about social entities."

The gist of it was that people often have a racial bias because they are less able to distinguish individual faces from races not their own. By teaching people techniques to be better able to individuate with other races, it went some of the way to reducing this racial bias.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 05:37PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Most people have prejudices, I don't think most people are racist however.

I'd agree with that. Prejudices can even be good. Prejudice against dictators, opressors, violent criminals, peadophiles, rapists etc.

curlzy wrote: »

So some opinions you have to back up and others you don't? And who gets to decide what opinions are important enough to need citations?

You can be called out on any opinion. If you claim it's the truth then you've placed the burden of proof on yourself. If I make mad claim after claim is it the responsibility of others to disprove them or should I be held to some sort of standard?

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 05:41PM

HHobo wrote: »

Given all the whining it illicited, here you go folks, the study I was thinking of

"Perceptual Other-Race Training Reduces Implicit Racial Bias," a study published Jan. 21, 2009, in PLoS ONE, the online, peer-reviewed journal from the Public Library of Science.

Some blurb
"The idea is this that this sort of perceptual training gives you a new tool to address the kinds of biases people show unconsciously and may not even be aware they have," said Michael J. Tarr, a Brown cognitive neuroscientist and a senior author of the paper. "There is a strong connection between the way we perceive and categorize the world and the way we end up making stereotypes and generalizations about social entities."

The gist of it was that people often have a racial bias because they are less able to distinguish individual faces from races not their own. By teaching people techniques to be better able to individuate with other races, it went some of the way to reducing this racial bias.

This actually lends weight to the idea that we can unlearn biases and casts further doubt on your 'xenophobia and racism are natural' claims.

pablomakaveli · 02-01-2013 05:44PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you're claiming that 'lol, racism and xenophobia are natural, lol' then that is pretty serious; it's skirts dangerously close to excusing it (or could be misconstrued as such by knuckle-draggers) which mean such claims should be challenged whether it's in AH or not.

Not sure if its natural but some sort of racial bias appears to develop in young babies according to this

Micky Dolenz · 02-01-2013 05:44PM

Of course we can unlearn stuff. I've forgotten most of the crap I was taught at school.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 06:53PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If I make mad claim after claim is it the responsibility of others to disprove them or should I be held to some sort of standard?

You have made all kinds of claims. You have provided us with pleanty of non sequiters and firmly held opinion in support of these claims.

Also, as I pointed out in my initial response to you, it is irrelevant if it is learned or not. That has nothing to do with the OPs question.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 06:58PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

This actually lends weight to the idea that we can unlearn biases and casts further doubt on your 'xenophobia and racism are natural' claims.

No. It really doesn't.

Also, where is this "natural" business coming from. As opposed to what unnatural?

I claimed there was evidence it was innate. This paper shows that people actually have perceptual problems identifying individuals of a different race. Presumably you think they are taught to be bad at facial recognition in other races? As a direct resuly (as evidenced by the training) this leads to negative racial bias. It is not learned, it is innate. Learning is required to overcome this natual tendancy.

I didn't think I'd have to read it for you too.

02-01-2013 07:28PM

Haelium wrote: »

On the subject of Propranolol, am I in the minority for being bothered by the fact that researchers are developing a drug to change a person's political opinion? Their opinion might be ****, but it is still basically brainwashing.

Propranolol is a drug designed to lower blood-pressure, the researches were interested to see if it had any other benefits, this occurs with most drugs, apparently 'Viagra' also aids jet-lag recovery in Hamsters, which I'm sure you'll agree was a vital discovery.

It's not brainwashing that's required to rid oneself of 'Racism', in my opinion the following are required:

Common Sense
Empathy
Familiarity with other cultures/races
Enlightened self-interest

But most important of all,
AN ASSERTIVE REFUSAL TO BE A KNUCKLEHEAD!

LivelineDipso · 02-01-2013 07:31PM

I am not sure about this one. Most people are not racist. In Ireland racism is pretty much a non issue except for Quangos looking for funding.

I will tell one that is different in private. Most people are deeply homophobic, even the 'fag hag' women who "love" Gay stuff. You get these women alone and they talk about homosexual men in very dehumanising manner. I have heard these women say things like. Imagine doing the stuff they do...disgusting. Then when they meet the Gay guy its all "kissy=kissy, wish you were straight!"

I really feel bad for Gay men in Ireland. On one hand they are hated openly and on the other patronised by fake liberals and other phonies.

old hippy · 02-01-2013 08:47PM

LivelineDipso wrote: »

I am not sure about this one. Most people are not racist. In Ireland racism is pretty much a non issue except for Quangos looking for funding.

Depends who you talk to. I saw it in the 70s, 80s and 90s and it was not pleasant. My gf at the time experienced it and still does, on occasion. Other friends of mine, especially female had to put up with a lot of hassle. Being harrassed for drugs and being hit on for being "exotic" etc. The majority of people are hopefully not racist but to say it's a non issue? If you're a white Irish person, maybe...

As for the gay issues - well, that's another thread, I reckons

Project Werewolf · 02-01-2013 09:05PM

In this country people think any mention of race that isn't glowingly positive is racist. In another thread people started crying racist when a poster mentioned that a toilet attendant was African.

Most Irish people aren't politically correct but they aren't racist. You'll know real racism when you see it and it's an ugly thing, not the petty bull people get upset over here.

We have a long way to go before we can be accused of racism. We might be a bit insensitive but that's all.

Before anyone says it i know there are some instances of racism here but it's not a trait found in most people.

woodoo · 02-01-2013 09:11PM

bluecode wrote: »

Everyone is a little bit racist, xenophobic or whatever. It's actually human nature. Your own family, tribe, group or race are what's important to you.

It's really a question of whether you act on it. A racist is someone who thinks racism is a good thing.

I agree with you but for some of our more ardent PC heads racism is even noticing someones skin colour is different at all.

Duggy747 · 02-01-2013 09:14PM

I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally. :pac:

Death and Taxes · 02-01-2013 09:59PM

Project Werewolf wrote: »

In this country people think any mention of race that isn't glowingly positive is racist. In another thread people started crying racist when a poster mentioned that a toilet attendant was African.

Most Irish people aren't politically correct but they aren't racist. You'll know real racism when you see it and it's an ugly thing, not the petty bull people get upset over here.

We have a long way to go before we can be accused of racism. We might be a bit insensitive but that's all.

Before anyone says it i know there are some instances of racism here but it's not a trait found in most people.

No people reported a number of highly offensive and racist posts which led to at least one poster being banned, and quite rightly so!

Higher · 02-01-2013 10:05PM

Duggy747 wrote: »

I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally. :pac:

How original.

Project Werewolf · 02-01-2013 10:33PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No people reported a number of highly offensive and racist posts which led to at least one poster being banned, and quite rightly so!

That was a different poster (juan.kerr iirc). The OP mentioned that the attendant was black but his issue was with the verbal abuse he got. Other posters got upset that he mentioned the attendant's race. That's what I'm talking about.

Killer Wench · 02-01-2013 10:41PM

Yes. Through media and upbringing, racism, or more specifically racialized assumptions, have been pounded into us since youth. Racism survives because of its subversive nature. As a Black American in 2013, I am more threatened by the guidance counselor who tells me I should be a childcare provider than I am a boogeyman wearing white sheets.

woodoo · 02-01-2013 10:44PM

Here is a perfect example of the overreaction that is all to common these days regards racism. A kid blacks up his face to look like his favorite footballer. The footballer in question doesn't look too upset. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256190/El-Hadji-Diouf-Father-apologises-son-engulfed-Twitter-race-storm-blacking-face-resemble-player.html

Death and Taxes · 02-01-2013 10:46PM

Project Werewolf wrote: »

That was a different poster (juan.kerr iirc). The OP mentioned that the attendant was black but his issue was with the verbal abuse he got. Other posters got upset that he mentioned the attendant's race. That's what I'm talking about.

A total misrepresentation!

Killer Wench · 02-01-2013 10:48PM

woodoo wrote: »

Here is a perfect example of the overreaction that is all to common these days regards racism. A kid blacks up his face to look like his favorite footballer. The footballer in question doesn't look too upset. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256190/El-Hadji-Diouf-Father-apologises-son-engulfed-Twitter-race-storm-blacking-face-resemble-player.html

I find it offensive but I'm American and minstrelism is a painful period for Black folk in the US.

Project Werewolf · 02-01-2013 10:57PM

Another example from the UK here:

A Tory councillor accused of racism after blacking his face to appear as Nelson Mandela at a fancy-dress party received backing from the most unexpected of sources yesterday.
Mandela himself.
The former South African president revealed that he had heard of the controversy - and had not taken the slightest offence.
The 88-year-old statesman urged against seeing racism at every turn.

Link here

Mandela can tell the difference between actual racism, having seen it firsthand, and people just looking for a problem where there is none. We don't seem to.

woodoo · 02-01-2013 10:58PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

I find it offensive but I'm American and minstrelism is a painful period for Black folk in the US.

I suppose it would depend on the context. I'd imagine it may be different if an adult did the same.

Did you experience much racism growing up in america. Did you grow up in the south or the north.

Project Werewolf · 02-01-2013 11:06PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

A total misrepresentation!

No it's not. Boards is full of threads that get completely derailed as soon as race, travellers, Roma etc. are mentioned. Offensive posts are reported and dealt accordingly (like in that thread) but some posters are far too sensitive about any mention of race.

It's obvious to most people when a post is malicious or not, that OP wasn't, the other poster was. Nothing complicated there.

02-01-2013 11:17PM

woodoo wrote: »

I agree with you but for some of our more ardent PC heads racism is even noticing someones skin colour is different at all.

Poppycock!

I would notice skin colour, I just wouldn't make any assumptions based on that observation.

Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

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