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Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

Prometheus

There have been several elections in the US where black and white candidates have been neck and neck in opinion polls, but at the actual election, the white candidate has thrashed the black candidate. Which has to imply, if these polls are done correctly, that a large number of people questioned are lying. The book Freakanomics goes into details about actual elections for those interested.
It got me thinking are Irish people like that as well, do we put up the liberal compassionate face in front of our peers, but in reality are we racist?
From experience with friends, colleagues etc, I believe we are.

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HHobo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Okay then. What you've written is a load of ill-informed horse ****. Prove that wrong.

Right back at ya

Annasopra

HHobo wrote: »

If this were a serious debate, certainly it would be expected of me to provide you with citations. It isn't. I couldn't be bothered.

That's fine.

Don't expect us to take any of your "opinions" seriously.

Earthhorse

Most people have prejudices, I don't think most people are racist however.

curlzy

curlzy wrote: »

Have to agree with this, this is After Hours. Who said we have to put forth scientic evidence for our opinions? This isn't a serious forum.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you're claiming that 'lol, racism and xenophobia are natural, lol' then that is pretty serious; it's skirts dangerously close to excusing it (or could be misconstrued as such by knuckle-draggers) which mean such claims should be challenged whether it's in AH or not.

So some opinions you have to back up and others you don't? And who gets to decide what opinions are important enough to need citations? Surely it should be added to the charter/rules if that's the case? I've seen unfounded offensive twaddle posted as an "opinion", but this is After Hours and if I don't like it I can go elsewhere on the site and do sometimes, especially when pro-lifers annoy me. There are politics and debating forums for people that want to argue back and forth. This is a forum supposed to apparently resemble the conversations you'd have in a pub and I'd imagine you'd be told where to go if you asked for citations there

HHobo

mango salsa wrote: »

That's fine.

Don't expect us to take any of your opinions seriously though.

Take them anyway you please. It is interesting though that you seem to think wild conjecture don't require any proving. The amount of claims being made here, you are fine with them all, except the one where I can't be bothered to source an actual study for you

. The internet is a stange place.

Wicklowandy

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=uykcRywjjYo

HHobo

Given all the whining it illicited, here you go folks, the study I was thinking of

"Perceptual Other-Race Training Reduces Implicit Racial Bias," a study published Jan. 21, 2009, in PLoS ONE, the online, peer-reviewed journal from the Public Library of Science.

Some blurb
"The idea is this that this sort of perceptual training gives you a new tool to address the kinds of biases people show unconsciously and may not even be aware they have," said Michael J. Tarr, a Brown cognitive neuroscientist and a senior author of the paper. "There is a strong connection between the way we perceive and categorize the world and the way we end up making stereotypes and generalizations about social entities."

The gist of it was that people often have a racial bias because they are less able to distinguish individual faces from races not their own. By teaching people techniques to be better able to individuate with other races, it went some of the way to reducing this racial bias.

Chuck Stone

Earthhorse wrote: »

Most people have prejudices, I don't think most people are racist however.

I'd agree with that. Prejudices can even be good. Prejudice against dictators, opressors, violent criminals, peadophiles, rapists etc.

curlzy wrote: »

So some opinions you have to back up and others you don't? And who gets to decide what opinions are important enough to need citations?

You can be called out on any opinion. If you claim it's the truth then you've placed the burden of proof on yourself. If I make mad claim after claim is it the responsibility of others to disprove them or should I be held to some sort of standard?

Chuck Stone

HHobo wrote: »

Given all the whining it illicited, here you go folks, the study I was thinking of

"Perceptual Other-Race Training Reduces Implicit Racial Bias," a study published Jan. 21, 2009, in PLoS ONE, the online, peer-reviewed journal from the Public Library of Science.

Some blurb
"The idea is this that this sort of perceptual training gives you a new tool to address the kinds of biases people show unconsciously and may not even be aware they have," said Michael J. Tarr, a Brown cognitive neuroscientist and a senior author of the paper. "There is a strong connection between the way we perceive and categorize the world and the way we end up making stereotypes and generalizations about social entities."

The gist of it was that people often have a racial bias because they are less able to distinguish individual faces from races not their own. By teaching people techniques to be better able to individuate with other races, it went some of the way to reducing this racial bias.

This actually lends weight to the idea that we can unlearn biases and casts further doubt on your 'xenophobia and racism are natural' claims.

pablomakaveli

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you're claiming that 'lol, racism and xenophobia are natural, lol' then that is pretty serious; it's skirts dangerously close to excusing it (or could be misconstrued as such by knuckle-draggers) which mean such claims should be challenged whether it's in AH or not.

Not sure if its natural but some sort of racial bias appears to develop in young babies according to this

Micky Dolenz

Of course we can unlearn stuff. I've forgotten most of the crap I was taught at school.

HHobo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If I make mad claim after claim is it the responsibility of others to disprove them or should I be held to some sort of standard?

You have made all kinds of claims. You have provided us with pleanty of non sequiters and firmly held opinion in support of these claims.

Also, as I pointed out in my initial response to you, it is irrelevant if it is learned or not. That has nothing to do with the OPs question.

HHobo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

This actually lends weight to the idea that we can unlearn biases and casts further doubt on your 'xenophobia and racism are natural' claims.

No. It really doesn't.

Also, where is this "natural" business coming from. As opposed to what unnatural?

I claimed there was evidence it was innate. This paper shows that people actually have perceptual problems identifying individuals of a different race. Presumably you think they are taught to be bad at facial recognition in other races? As a direct resuly (as evidenced by the training) this leads to negative racial bias. It is not learned, it is innate. Learning is required to overcome this natual tendancy.

I didn't think I'd have to read it for you too.

9959

Haelium wrote: »

On the subject of Propranolol, am I in the minority for being bothered by the fact that researchers are developing a drug to change a person's political opinion? Their opinion might be ****, but it is still basically brainwashing.

Propranolol is a drug designed to lower blood-pressure, the researches were interested to see if it had any other benefits, this occurs with most drugs, apparently 'Viagra' also aids jet-lag recovery in Hamsters, which I'm sure you'll agree was a vital discovery.

It's not brainwashing that's required to rid oneself of 'Racism', in my opinion the following are required:

Common Sense
Empathy
Familiarity with other cultures/races
Enlightened self-interest

But most important of all,
AN ASSERTIVE REFUSAL TO BE A KNUCKLEHEAD!

LivelineDipso

I am not sure about this one. Most people are not racist. In Ireland racism is pretty much a non issue except for Quangos looking for funding.

I will tell one that is different in private. Most people are deeply homophobic, even the 'fag hag' women who "love" Gay stuff. You get these women alone and they talk about homosexual men in very dehumanising manner. I have heard these women say things like. Imagine doing the stuff they do...disgusting. Then when they meet the Gay guy its all "kissy=kissy, wish you were straight!"

I really feel bad for Gay men in Ireland. On one hand they are hated openly and on the other patronised by fake liberals and other phonies.

old hippy

LivelineDipso wrote: »

I am not sure about this one. Most people are not racist. In Ireland racism is pretty much a non issue except for Quangos looking for funding.

Depends who you talk to. I saw it in the 70s, 80s and 90s and it was not pleasant. My gf at the time experienced it and still does, on occasion. Other friends of mine, especially female had to put up with a lot of hassle. Being harrassed for drugs and being hit on for being "exotic" etc. The majority of people are hopefully not racist but to say it's a non issue? If you're a white Irish person, maybe...

As for the gay issues - well, that's another thread, I reckons

Project Werewolf

In this country people think any mention of race that isn't glowingly positive is racist. In another thread people started crying racist when a poster mentioned that a toilet attendant was African.

Most Irish people aren't politically correct but they aren't racist. You'll know real racism when you see it and it's an ugly thing, not the petty bull people get upset over here.

We have a long way to go before we can be accused of racism. We might be a bit insensitive but that's all.

Before anyone says it i know there are some instances of racism here but it's not a trait found in most people.

woodoo

bluecode wrote: »

Everyone is a little bit racist, xenophobic or whatever. It's actually human nature. Your own family, tribe, group or race are what's important to you.

It's really a question of whether you act on it. A racist is someone who thinks racism is a good thing.

I agree with you but for some of our more ardent PC heads racism is even noticing someones skin colour is different at all.

Duggy747

I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally. :pac:

Death and Taxes

Project Werewolf wrote: »

In this country people think any mention of race that isn't glowingly positive is racist. In another thread people started crying racist when a poster mentioned that a toilet attendant was African.

Most Irish people aren't politically correct but they aren't racist. You'll know real racism when you see it and it's an ugly thing, not the petty bull people get upset over here.

We have a long way to go before we can be accused of racism. We might be a bit insensitive but that's all.

Before anyone says it i know there are some instances of racism here but it's not a trait found in most people.

No people reported a number of highly offensive and racist posts which led to at least one poster being banned, and quite rightly so!

Higher

Duggy747 wrote: »

I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally. :pac:

How original.

Project Werewolf

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No people reported a number of highly offensive and racist posts which led to at least one poster being banned, and quite rightly so!

That was a different poster (juan.kerr iirc). The OP mentioned that the attendant was black but his issue was with the verbal abuse he got. Other posters got upset that he mentioned the attendant's race. That's what I'm talking about.

Killer Wench

Yes. Through media and upbringing, racism, or more specifically racialized assumptions, have been pounded into us since youth. Racism survives because of its subversive nature. As a Black American in 2013, I am more threatened by the guidance counselor who tells me I should be a childcare provider than I am a boogeyman wearing white sheets.

woodoo

Here is a perfect example of the overreaction that is all to common these days regards racism. A kid blacks up his face to look like his favorite footballer. The footballer in question doesn't look too upset. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256190/El-Hadji-Diouf-Father-apologises-son-engulfed-Twitter-race-storm-blacking-face-resemble-player.html

Death and Taxes

Project Werewolf wrote: »

That was a different poster (juan.kerr iirc). The OP mentioned that the attendant was black but his issue was with the verbal abuse he got. Other posters got upset that he mentioned the attendant's race. That's what I'm talking about.

A total misrepresentation!

Killer Wench

woodoo wrote: »

Here is a perfect example of the overreaction that is all to common these days regards racism. A kid blacks up his face to look like his favorite footballer. The footballer in question doesn't look too upset. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256190/El-Hadji-Diouf-Father-apologises-son-engulfed-Twitter-race-storm-blacking-face-resemble-player.html

I find it offensive but I'm American and minstrelism is a painful period for Black folk in the US.

Project Werewolf

Another example from the UK here:

A Tory councillor accused of racism after blacking his face to appear as Nelson Mandela at a fancy-dress party received backing from the most unexpected of sources yesterday.
Mandela himself.
The former South African president revealed that he had heard of the controversy - and had not taken the slightest offence.
The 88-year-old statesman urged against seeing racism at every turn.

Link here

Mandela can tell the difference between actual racism, having seen it firsthand, and people just looking for a problem where there is none. We don't seem to.

woodoo

Killer Wench wrote: »

I find it offensive but I'm American and minstrelism is a painful period for Black folk in the US.

I suppose it would depend on the context. I'd imagine it may be different if an adult did the same.

Did you experience much racism growing up in america. Did you grow up in the south or the north.

Project Werewolf

WileyCoyote wrote: »

A total misrepresentation!

No it's not. Boards is full of threads that get completely derailed as soon as race, travellers, Roma etc. are mentioned. Offensive posts are reported and dealt accordingly (like in that thread) but some posters are far too sensitive about any mention of race.

It's obvious to most people when a post is malicious or not, that OP wasn't, the other poster was. Nothing complicated there.

9959

woodoo wrote: »

I agree with you but for some of our more ardent PC heads racism is even noticing someones skin colour is different at all.

Poppycock!

I would notice skin colour, I just wouldn't make any assumptions based on that observation.