Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 03:24PM

bluecode wrote: »

Everyone is a little bit racist, xenophobic or whatever. It's actually human nature.

Human nature to be racist/xenophobic?

HHobo wrote: »

Science says YES!

It does?

Any ol' peer reviewed studies on this lads because I was under the impression that racism and xenophobia are learned (and indeed unlearned).

Actually, it's well accepted that racism and xenophobia can be 'unlearned' which creates an axiom, of sorts, that they had to be learned in the first place and, thus, are not natural states.

Gauss · 02-01-2013 03:28PM

I believe in live and let live. If someone wants to hate one particular section of society that's their own business so long as they don't harm anyone.

Annasopra · 02-01-2013 03:29PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

What's the big deal about being racist anyway its hardly a crime!

Certain types of racism are

Racist hate crime (not in Ireland)
Racist incitement to violence
Racist discrimination

Lollipops23 · 02-01-2013 03:30PM

I don't think it's a racial issue as such-the colour of people's skin means diddly squat to me, but if someone is from a certain part of the world it will make me more aware of the cultural discrepencies that might appear between us.

The fact is, I base my assumptions (wrong or right) on my prior experience with a certain nationality. I understand entirely why Oz or New Zealand must be getting pissed off with the Irish pissheads who keep causing problems for them, but the fact is it's happening and colouring their impression of our culture.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 03:33PM

Gauss wrote: »

I believe in live and let live. If someone wants to hate one particular section of society that's their own business so long as they don't harm anyone.

Yes. As long as their hatred stays inside their brain then that's fine.

The problem is that this is rarely the case; they tend to infect children and peers with their hate and actively/passively discriminate against those they hate which is not okay at all.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 03:34PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Human nature to be racist/xenophobic?

It does?

Any ol' peer reviewed studies on this lads because I was under the impression that racism and xenophobia are learned (and indeed unlearned).

Actually, it's well accepted that racism and xenophobia can be 'unlearned' which creates an axiom, of sorts, that they had to be learned in the first place and, thus, are not natural states.

So what if it is learned? Tieing your shoelaces is also learned. It doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority tie their shoelaces. Ingroup - outgroup thinking is natural, evident in other primate species. Racism is coonsidered a type of this thinking.

Also, self preservation and the preservation of close family relatives are the strongest instincts we have. People kill their family members and themseleves. Presuming this must be learned and self-preservation, family-preservation unlearned, then by your logic, self-preservation and the preservation of family members is not a natural state.

Why do you assume that learning over coming instinct must indicate the initial impulse cannot be instinctual?

There have been studies done. I honestly couldn't be bothered finding them. Give it a solid googling and you'll find them.

Higher · 02-01-2013 03:38PM

Gauss wrote: »

The white man fears the black man's pendulous genitalia. This is where racism stems from.

Think someone posted up a World chart on here awhile back. It turns out the Hungarian man has the biggest followed by the Colombians. I think it said Irish have the smallest in Europe as well (but then again the study was done in Galway not in Dublin where we have all have massive schlongs)

HHobo · 02-01-2013 03:38PM

HHobo wrote: »

Racism is coonsidered a type of this thinking.

ack! Now that is a an embarrasing typo.

.....:eek:....:o!

token101 · 02-01-2013 03:54PM

I actually think the opposite of the OPs contention is true in a lot of cases as well. You hear a lot of bull**** from people talking in public about Polish taking jobs, Nigerians coming for welfare, etc, etc, but I think a lot of that is pure frustration at how things have turned out and how powerless people are to help themselves. At a guess, I would imagine less than 10% of the people that actually say these things genuinely believe it. Deep down lots, if not most, of these people know that the Polish haven't taken their jobs and aren't at fault, they're just lashing out at anyone who's an easy target. Is it acceptable? No, but it's understandable to an extent and simply mass branding people bigoted idiots is hardly going to make them see the light, it's just going to embolden them even more.

jmayo · 02-01-2013 03:56PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'd be more prejudiced then racist.

I'd like to think I treat people with equal disdain.

Agree.

BTW I think a lot of people are nimbys.
And in Ireland this has historically been about travellers.
Everyone is pro halting site until it is at the end of their road.

I think the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" might sum up the attitude of a lot of people when push comes to shove.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 04:02PM

HHobo wrote: »

So what if it is learned?

You said racism and xenophobia is natural. If it's leaned then it can be unlearned or, better still, not be taught in the first place.

Ingroup - outgroup thinking is natural - Racism is coonsidered a type of this thinking.

It's a field for sociological psychology; calling racism 'natural' doesn't make much sense.

Why do you assume that learning over coming instinct must indicate the initial impulse cannot be instinctual?

Instinctual reactions are not formed by prior experiences (learned). Babies suckling is instinctual as is their ability to swim; shivering from cold or fear too for example.

There have been studies done. I honestly couldn't be bothered finding them. Give it a solid googling and you'll find them.

You make the claim you back it up. You expect me to find evidence for your, as yet, spurious claims? Lol.

Annasopra · 02-01-2013 04:02PM

HHobo wrote: »

There have been studies done. I honestly couldn't be bothered finding them. Give it a solid googling and you'll find them.

If you're going to make a claim then at least back it up!

FTA69 · 02-01-2013 04:03PM

Unfortunately I think that overt racist sentiment has become more common in Ireland since the recession started. It seems that many people seek to take their wider frustration with society out on groups that are easily blamed for the state the country is in. Sometimes these are social groups; for instance those on social welfare, single mothers etc and other times the targets may be race related. I've lost count of the times I've seen people on facebook (and elsewhere) rant on about "our own" with no jobs and "these Poles and Nigerians on the dole and taking the jobs" etc. It's a nasty and narrow-minded reaction which is found the world over. If only people would learn to kick up instead of kicking down at migrants and the unemployed then maybe Ireland would change for the better.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 04:12PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You said racism and xenophobia is natural. If it's leaned then it can be unlearned or, better still, not be taught in the first place.

I don't see what natual has to do with anything. Is it unnatual? Like all learned things must be?
It is innate.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It's a field for sociological psychology

So what?

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Instinctual reactions are not formed by prior experiences (learned). Babies suckling is instinctual as is their ability to swim; shivering from cold or fear too for example.

Right and we react we misplaced instinctual responses in all kinds of situations. Fear of the unfamiliar is instinctual...

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You make the claim you back it up. You expect me to find evidence for your, as yet, spurious claims? Lol.

You seem to be confusing a thread on boards.ie with some form of formal debate. Ironically, you want me to do the searching for you. I healped you out by informing you such studies exist. I also made it clear I am not interested enough to go and find it. You want me to go and do the leg work so you can satisfy your curiosity.... ummm no thanks. I don't give a monkey's if you believe me or not.

02-01-2013 04:12PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/07/heart-drug-makes-people-less-racist-study_n_1328122.html

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00213-012-2657-5

Thanks for the links, they made for interesting reading, but I would expect similar findings had the trialists been tested 'before and after' on their irrational fear/ loathing of Man Utd, Boyzone or Leitrim.

In other words, I don't believe that racism could in any way be construed as a medical condition to be 'cured with drugs', nor do I believe - as some posters seem to be suggesting - that racism (covert or overt) is the natural 'default' position of the vast majority of human beings.

I would have liked to explain my reading of those tests in greater detail, alas I'm seriously hampered by a severe dose of 'man flu', which is something I really HATE, perhaps Propranolol could be just the ticket!

For those who haven't read the links, the last line of one of them reads as follows:

".....In my view these preliminary results are a long way from suggesting that Propranolol specifically influences racial attitudes"

Chris Chambers, University of Cardiff, School of Psychology

Annasopra · 02-01-2013 04:18PM

HHobo wrote: »

I don't see what natual has to do with anything. Is it unnatual? Like all learned things must be?
It is innate.

So what?

Right and we react we misplaced instinctual responses in all kinds of situations. Fear of the unfamiliar is instinctual...

You seem to be confusing a thread on boards.ie with some form of formal debate. Ironically, you want me to do the searching for you. I healped you out by informing you such studies exist. I also made it clear I am not interested enough to go and find it. You want me to go and do the leg work so you can satisfy your curiosity.... ummm no thanks. I don't give a monkey's if you believe me or not.

So basically anything you say in this thread is meaningless twaddle.

doyle61 · 02-01-2013 04:19PM

pabloh999 wrote: »

Cos you'd get yer head kicked in boss..

You think so???? lol. Doubt it but that's neither here nor there. By the way I love your contribution to the thread, it's................inspiring with the high level of intellect your showing

curlzy · 02-01-2013 04:22PM

I'm not racist or xenophobic or homophobic or agist etc EXCEPT for roma gypsies. I never give them spare change but I give other beggers change. It's coz I was ripped off when I worked in a shop and bamboozled me out of €50 twice. So yeah I guess I'm a little bit racist

02-01-2013 04:23PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Actually, it's well accepted that racism and xenophobia can be 'unlearned' which creates an axiom, of sorts, that they had to be learned in the first place and, thus, are not natural states.

Ya think?

As for that thing with elections, most elections will have a couple of polls done beforehand. It was talked about before the 2008 US Presidential election and when there was a big sample size the polls matched nicely. Funny that.

Gauss · 02-01-2013 04:24PM

We generally treat those creatures most genetically similar the best. We treat reptiles better than insects, we treat mammals better than reptiles. We treat humans better than mammals. We treat family better than humans.

02-01-2013 04:25PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

What's the big deal about being racist anyway its hardly a crime!

Next you'll be asking 'what was the big deal about apartheid in South Africa'?

HHobo · 02-01-2013 04:25PM

mango salsa wrote: »

So basically anything you say in this thread is meaningless twaddle.

Right. Yeah that seems a fair summation. :rolleyes:

Annasopra · 02-01-2013 04:28PM

HHobo wrote: »

Right. Yeah that seems a fair summation. :rolleyes:

Well if you're going to make a statement that you can't back up then how can we be expected to treat your opinion as informed or meaningful?

Da Shins Kelly · 02-01-2013 04:36PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

What's the big deal about being racist anyway its hardly a crime!

Racism is one of the most dangerous thought processes out there.

HHobo · 02-01-2013 04:36PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Well if you're going to make a statement that you can't back up then how can we be expected to treat your opinion as informed or meaningful?

I realise as a moderator here you might have a skewed impression of the importance of a boards.ie discussion. I am under absolutely no obligation to "back up" anything. As I appear to be the only person aware that this topic has been the subject of a study I would seem to be more informed than you. Bear in mind that I don't mind if you don't believe me. The OP now has a study to look up to become more informed his/her self on the issue. I have no interest in googling for you. If you are interested, look it up. If not, don't. I don't mind either way.

Treat anything I say in any way you please. It is interesting to me though that the one person who mentions an actually study but can't be bothered to look it up is spouting meaningless twaddle but everyone else who presents nothing but wild speculation and opinion is under no obligation to prove anything to be saying something:

mango salsa wrote: »

informed or meaningful?

If this were a serious debate, certainly it would be expected of me to provide you with citations. It isn't. I couldn't be bothered.

The most ironic thing about all this is that I probably could have in the time it took to type this reply.

Haelium · 02-01-2013 04:38PM

On the subject of Propranolol, am I in the minority for being bothered by the fact that researchers are developing a drug to change a person's political opinion? Their opinion might be ****, but it is still basically brainwashing.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 04:42PM

HHobo wrote: »

I don't see what natual has to do with anything.

Then why state that xenophobia and racism are natural?

It is innate.

So racism and xenophobia are innate? Children are born racists and xenophobes and xenophobes and that's it?

Fear of the unfamiliar is instinctual...

Fear of other races and nationalities isn't. If humans were afraid of the unfamiliar we wouldn't have propagated the planet. We wouldn't have traversed the oceans to trade with people with strange customs and cultures.

You seem to be confusing a thread on boards.ie with some form of formal debate.

What? It's a discussion board and we're having a discussion. I think your claims that racism and xenophobia are natural need to be challenged for accuracy - you made them so you should either retract or defend them.

Ironically, you want me to do the searching for you. I healped you out by informing you such studies exist. I also made it clear I am not interested enough to go and find it. You want me to go and do the leg work so you can satisfy your curiosity.... ummm no thanks. I don't give a monkey's if you believe me or not.

Okay then. What you've written is a load of ill-informed horse ****. Prove that wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya think?

Can you find a flaw in the statement you've quoted?

curlzy · 02-01-2013 04:43PM

HHobo wrote: »

I realise as a moderator here you might have a skewed impression of the importance of a boards.ie discussion. I am under absolutely no obligation to "back up" anything. As I appear to be the only person aware that this topic has been the subject of a study I would seem to be more informed than you. Bear in mind that I don't mind if you don't believe me. The OP now has a study to look up to become more informed his/her self on the issue. I have no interest in googling for you. If you are interested, look it up. If not, don't. I don't mind either way.

Treat anything I say in any way you please. It is interesting to me though that the one person who mentions an actually study but can't be bothered to look it up is spouting meaningless twaddle but everyone else who presents nothing but wild speculation and opinion is under no obligation to prove anything to be saying something:

If this were a serious debate, certainly it would be expected of me to provide you with citations. It isn't. I couldn't be bothered.

The most ironic thing about all this is that I probably could have in the time it took to type this reply.

Have to agree with this, this is After Hours. Who said we have to put forth scientic evidence for our opinions? This isn't a serious forum.

Mardy Bum · 02-01-2013 04:43PM

mango salsa wrote: »

So basically anything you say in this thread is meaningless twaddle.

Racism is not inherently human. However in group out group relations are an evolutionary product which causes us to be tentative to those out side the group. Group is difficult to define in this circumstance as it can have numerous different meanings whether it be religion, race, football team etc. We have also developed a habit through evolution to size people up immediately when we see them to see if they are fit for our group. Its a defensive reaction. This can be extremely inaccurate and promotes irrational behavior but can also be helpful. People just need to engage their brains and the irrational side can be overcome. However those that don't are more prone to racists activities.

Elizabeth Culotta's "Roots of Racism" article will give you a good idea. Its hard to find on the web though as you need subscriptions. There are probably some videos though explaining it.

Chuck Stone · 02-01-2013 04:52PM

curlzy wrote: »

Have to agree with this, this is After Hours. Who said we have to put forth scientic evidence for our opinions? This isn't a serious forum.

If you're claiming that 'lol, racism and xenophobia are natural, lol' then that is pretty serious; it's skirts dangerously close to excusing it (or could be misconstrued as such by knuckle-draggers) which mean such claims should be challenged whether it's in AH or not.

Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

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