Saorview Content Speculation

irishfeen · 23-12-2012 10:53PM

Is TV3's BAI broadcasting licence available to view online?

The Cush · 23-12-2012 11:17PM

irishfeen wrote: »

Is TV3's BAI broadcasting licence available to view online?

No.

irishfeen · 23-12-2012 11:36PM

The Cush wrote: »

No.

Ah ok .. Any idea why not? I thought that the licences would be freely available to the public as its in the public interest.

The Cush · 23-12-2012 11:43PM

irishfeen wrote: »

Ah ok .. Any idea why not? I thought that the licences would be freely available to the public as its in the public interest.

A question for the BAI to answer. None of the commercial radio or TV licences are available in the public domain that I know of.

Sam Russell · 24-12-2012 12:05AM

Surely the pilot phase ended when Minister Rabbitte launched Saorview the first time in May 2010. It was then officially the main service. The legacy service was then analogue.

If this was true, TV3 should have been paying for BOTH analogue and Saorview from May 2010 until 24th October 2012. They could have elected to have their few transmitters turned of early.

Obviously they have not been paying, and do not intend to pay, anything for as long as they can get away with it IMHO.

The Cush · 24-12-2012 12:11AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Surely the pilot phase ended when Minister Rabbitte launched Saorview the first time in May 2010.

...

Corrected my post, should have read May 2011.

watty · 24-12-2012 02:35PM

The Cush wrote: »

A question for the BAI to answer. None of the commercial radio or TV licences are available in the public domain that I know of.

Indeed. So they should!

Also Comreg "redacts" the penalties on Telecom Licences (which are published).

Perhaps the lack of Transparency is to hide Government & Quango & Civil Service incompetence. I've no evidence of actual corruption, though the NBS contract is mighty suspicious as is the creation of a new Satellite Internet reseller just before the RBS scheme is announced.

watty · 24-12-2012 02:57PM

irishfeen wrote: »

Why is it that they are not been wound up if they are insolvent?... what is the deal with them being a "mortgage owner"?

They are not a "mortgage owner". The principle is that if your business owe the Bank 100K and you can't pay they bring an action to have you wound up as they will get 1st cut (lets say hypothetically 40K of the 100K, what USians call 40c in the Dollar), all the other creditors, shareholders get nothing and anyone paid (other than credit card) for goods or services not delivered, gets NOTHING, not even a cent.

If you owe say 100Million and are worth almost nothing (or even only 1M) but still "viably" trading and can't pay off loan capital or even the interest, then the Bank doesn't want to lose 80M to 99M ... So they park the loan and even suspend interest in the hope that "trade" picks up and you can start repayments again (like someone with a TEMPORARY issue paying the Mortgage).

TV3 is worth very little in a Firesale as anyone likely to take over the licence would have equipment etc.

TV3 has no "goodwill" to sell like a retailer, as any new licence holder will pretty much automatically get the viewers and Advertisers initially.

They have very little infrastructure.

Any new licensee would as easily get contracts with "rights holders / Content providers" and a new company might want slightly different bought in content anyway.

So in absence of BAI revoking licence on grounds that:
1) TV3 never fulfilled their coverage requirements before ASO
2) You need to squint hard to believe the claims that Local content requirements are met
3) They keep putting on "Scam" programming (premium rate numbers) at night
4) Their morning "news" magazine is fake quizzes (raise money from phone) and Product Placement
5) It's pretty rubbish copy of ITV, Saorview simply carrying UTV instead would do the Irish Licence payer a better deal!
6) The Financial Regulator should NOT permit "leveraged buyouts" Which is why Eircom was asset stripped and went "bust" (now owned by Bondholders) and why TV3 is basically "bust".

But BAI puts Doctrine ahead of Common sense, as evidenced by BCI/BAI delaying Saorview to flog the "dead horse" of Pay DTT, which if ever launched will go bust.

irishfeen · 24-12-2012 03:15PM

watty wrote: »

They are not a "mortgage owner". The principle is that if your business owe the Bank 100K and you can't pay they bring an action to have you wound up as they will get 1st cut (lets say hypothetically 40K of the 100K, what USians call 40c in the Dollar), all the other creditors, shareholders get nothing and anyone paid (other than credit card) for goods or services not delivered, gets NOTHING, not even a cent.

If you owe say 100Million and are worth almost nothing (or even only 1M) but still "viably" trading and can't pay off loan capital or even the interest, then the Bank doesn't want to lose 80M to 99M ... So they park the loan and even suspend interest in the hope that "trade" picks up and you can start repayments again (like someone with a TEMPORARY issue paying the Mortgage).

TV3 is worth very little in a Firesale as anyone likely to take over the licence would have equipment etc.

TV3 has no "goodwill" to sell like a retailer, as any new licence holder will pretty much automatically get the viewers and Advertisers initially.

They have very little infrastructure.

Any new licensee would as easily get contracts with "rights holders / Content providers" and a new company might want slightly different bought in content anyway.

So in absence of BAI revoking licence on grounds that:
1) TV3 never fulfilled their coverage requirements before ASO
2) You need to squint hard to believe the claims that Local content requirements are met
3) They keep putting on "Scam" programming (premium rate numbers) at night
4) Their morning "news" magazine is fake quizzes (raise money from phone) and Product Placement
5) It's pretty rubbish copy of ITV, Saorview simply carrying UTV instead would do the Irish Licence payer a better deal!
6) The Financial Regulator should NOT permit "leveraged buyouts" Which is why Eircom was asset stripped and went "bust" (now owned by Bondholders) and why TV3 is basically "bust".

But BAI puts Doctrine ahead of Common sense, as evidenced by BCI/BAI delaying Saorview to flog the "dead horse" of Pay DTT, which if ever launched will go bust.

Very interesting indeed, I suppose the BAI are afraid of revoking TV3's licence because it will cost many jobs, look very bad on their part and it would leave RTE with a TV monopoly again in Ireland...

Do you think in the long term that TV3 can survive or will it have to be bought out to have any chance?

watty · 24-12-2012 09:12PM

How many people do TV3 employ?
How many new Local employees would any replacement employ?

Answer:
The "jobs" aspect is irrelevant.

No-one will buy them out due to the Debt. Cheaper to apply for a Licence if they go bust. Anyone would have to be paid to take them.

Sam Russell · 27-12-2012 02:12PM

If TV3 handed back their licence, or it was taken back, then UTV could take it up very easily and could replace everything TV3 do with no difficulty. I am sure they could find a few ditzy girls to talk breathlessly and incessantly about very little except girlie things like on-trend fashions and bargains in make-up for the 30 minutes around 6pm news time on RTE1. They could also hire an elderly nearly retired journalist to berate politicos and other bores about how the country is completely banjaxed. Of course such programmes would be required to give an element of local content. They could even show such riveting programmes on their Norn Iron network.

Couldn't be worse than what's there already.

Fuzzy Clam · 28-12-2012 06:59PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

If TV3 handed back their licence, or it was taken back, then UTV could take it up very easily and could replace everything TV3 do with no difficulty. I am sure they could find a few ditzy girls to talk breathlessly and incessantly about very little except girlie things like on-trend fashions and bargains in make-up for the 30 minutes around 6pm news time on RTE1. They could also hire an elderly nearly retired journalist to berate politicos and other bores about how the country is completely banjaxed. Of course such programmes would be required to give an element of local content. They could even show such riveting programmes on their Norn Iron network.

Couldn't be worse than what's there already.

So just a clone is what you're suggesting

watty · 28-12-2012 07:07PM

Well without the Debt and the fake money raking phone-in shows.

Sam Russell · 28-12-2012 08:26PM

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

So just a clone is what you're suggesting

All I am saying is that cheap TV is cheap. There is a lot of choice at the bottom of the barrel.

Pat Gleeson · 29-12-2012 09:08AM

TV 3 - to me anyway - is one long infomercial e.g. Xpose, Drive (?), Ireland AM.
Endless, blatant product placement punctuated by the odd import.

FREETV · 29-12-2012 12:21PM

Pat Gleeson wrote: »

TV 3 - to me anyway - is one long infomercial e.g. Xpose, Drive (?), Ireland AM.
Endless, blatant product placement punctuated by the odd import.

In a word so crud of the highest order. Loads of reality bulls***t! Oh and I forgot the endless repeats patricularily of old movies time after time. That phone in so called Psychic muck at night also.

Tallafornia is back in the new year, how sad is that? You'd need your head tested if you'd watch that s***e! Dublin Wives too and they call that television! Who watches that kind of junk? Low class brain dead morons? It is offensive and an insult. They would put on any rubbish to make money and have a take it or leave it, this is what you are getting attitude to their programming content.

Johnboy1951 · 29-12-2012 09:37PM

Somebody must be watching it ....

Hotblack Desiato · 29-12-2012 11:41PM

TV3 = 'Daily Star TV'. WATCH as your fave GOOD celebs, your EVIL bad celebs, your NASTY CRIMS, your low rent SOAPS and your ASTROLOGERS/CHARLATANS combine to deliver the TV from hell for any person with an IQ above room temp. Celsius.

irishfeen · 29-12-2012 11:53PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Somebody must be watching it ....

TV3 ??

... I think a telling stat was from Christmas day where 9 of the Top 10 most watched programmes in Ireland were on RTÉ Television... Now i'm not an expert on these thinks but how the fcuk are the programming department at TV3 getting away with them kind of figures, only for ITV/UTV program's they would have almost no viewership. After 14 years broadcasting that's a damning indictment, especially where their only real competition is a backward state broadcaster.

Sam Russell · 30-12-2012 11:20AM

I think that if you are analysing a channel such as TV3, you should examine the companies paying to advertise on the channel. They think they are talking to an audience that might buy their products. Afternoon advertisers are selling hearing aids, constipation remmedies, stair lifts, etc. Late evening advertisers are selling condoms, sex advice, phone slapper services etc. Compare that with the advertising on Coronation St, or other high audience programmes.

It is a sad reflection on a channel that they only attract low rent advertisers. I think it is time for then to fold their tent and slink back into the shadows.

icdg · 30-12-2012 12:17PM

I'm quite concerned that this thread is turning into the "whinge about TV3" thread which to be honest is not its purpose and would really be for the Broadcasting forum.

irishfeen · 30-12-2012 12:21PM

icdg wrote: »

I'm quite concerned that this thread is turning into the "whinge about TV3" thread which to be honest is not its purpose and would really be for the Broadcasting forum.

You are probably right but on one hand TV3's current financial state may mean their longterm survival on all platforms including Saorview may be in threat. I do get where you are coming from though.

Elmo · 30-12-2012 01:36PM

In relation to TV audiences in Ireland for the Irish channel and TV3, though I agree the thread was becoming a whingefest.

TV3 rely heavily on ITV content to provide them with an audience. XFactor will see TV3 reach 13% to 16%. Generally TV3 will have 10% to 12% of the audience. This is sustainable as pointed out TV3's homegrown programming out side of news and sport rely heavily on product placement.

This allows them sell advertising and make some kind of profit with little investment. Hence the leverage buyout mentioned by watty.

Anglo Irish gave TV3 management and Dogherty Hanson a massive loan basis on the idea that Ireland would continue to grow and advertising would remain steady. TV3 in the previous years had made profits of €10million with the arrival of ITV. Meaning loan repayments would not exceed profits. Though Anglo Irish banks cause major problems with such loaning policies.

RTÉ One has a broad homegrown set of programmes thus it attains 20% of the audience.

RTÉ Two rely heavily on sporting content, without sports RTÉ can see their audience drop from 15% right down to 5% in any given week.

TG4 also rely on sport but as a niche language channel they also have some surprisingly good home grown programmes. 2% - 3% of the audience, They often do well around Christmas and St. Patrick's weeks. Getting audiences of up to 5%.

3e is a repeat channel gaining audience and loosing audiences. During the 3 weeks of I'm a Cele.... they had a 5% share of the audience, though this tumbled back down to 2% the following week (and this was due in part to a Soccer match on Thursday night).

Setanta Ireland has 0.3% of the audience and has few subscribers (save the basic UPC package). And yet they are considered for BAI Sound and Vision support ?????

The last time I saw an average audience share for RTÉ 1 +1 it was at 0.5% of the audience, nearly 30,000 people watch love/hate on RTÉ 1+1.

BBC 1 = 4%, BBC 2 = 2%, UTV = 4%, Channel 4 = 2%, Sky Channels ~ 6% altogther, all others = 40%.

AFAIK.

Sam Russell · 30-12-2012 02:08PM

icdg wrote: »

I'm quite concerned that this thread is turning into the "whinge about TV3" thread which to be honest is not its purpose and would really be for the Broadcasting forum.

Well, the topic is Saorview Content Speculation. TV3 are heavily in debt and not paying their way. If RTE NL were run as a business, Saorview would have no choice but to eject TV3 from transmission. If that were to happen, UTV would be a direct fit to replace them. They show most of the same programmes and certainly if you take cummalitive audiences for those programmes, there would be little not shared by both channels in terms of audience. I would think that TV3 would not be missed.

The TV3 bashing is over their refusal to pay the going rate for the transmission; their poor quality of programmes; their blatant product placement that destroys the creditability of them as a station. Remember when The Vincent Brown programme was sponsored by Bank of Scotland and a major news story was ignored by VB because it was about bad news for BofS. It is this kind of behaviour that has many people railing against them. They would be a poor station if only available on a satellite-only basis. As a national station they are a disgrace.

Saorview should do better. The BAI should insist on better. We should all be able to beleive in better.

irishfeen · 30-12-2012 02:29PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, the topic is Saorview Content Speculation. TV3 are heavily in debt and not paying their way. If RTE NL were run as a business, Saorview would have no choice but to eject TV3 from transmission. If that were to happen, UTV would be a direct fit to replace them. They show most of the same programmes and certainly if you take cummalitive audiences for those programmes, there would be little not shared by both channels in terms of audience. I would think that TV3 would not be missed.

The TV3 bashing is over their refusal to pay the going rate for the transmission; their poor quality of programmes; their blatant product placement that destroys the creditability of them as a station. Remember when The Vincent Brown programme was sponsored by Bank of Scotland and a major news story was ignored by VB because it was about bad news for BofS. It is this kind of behaviour that has many people railing against them. They would be a poor station if only available on a satellite-only basis. As a national station they are a disgrace.

Saorview should do better. The BAI should insist on better. We should all be able to beleive in better.

+1 ... I would love if TV3 was a real alternative to RTE, there are good people working at the station, one of which I know personally and who works much harder then his RTE counterparts but management cannot expect to keep running the business like they are currently doing.

Their refusal to get behind the DTT project is disgraceful and their refusal to go on Saorsat (for rural people who have no other television) is, for me the final straw. They are a terrestrial broadcaster who profit from being a terrestrial broadcaster so the BAI should put their foot down, name a date in which all fees for Saorview/Saorsat are paid and if that date is passed their broadcasting licence on all platforms should be suspended.

FREETV · 30-12-2012 10:31PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that if you are analysing a channel such as TV3, you should examine the companies paying to advertise on the channel. They think they are talking to an audience that might buy their products. Afternoon advertisers are selling hearing aids, constipation remmedies, stair lifts, etc. Late evening advertisers are selling condoms, sex advice, phone slapper services etc. Compare that with the advertising on Coronation St, or other high audience programmes.

It is a sad reflection on a channel that they only attract low rent advertisers. I think it is time for then to fold their tent and slink back into the shadows.

Post deleted. Sorry but this goes beyond mere complaining - if you have allegations of actual criminal activity you should not post them on Boards but should go to the Garda Siochana instead.

FREETV · 30-12-2012 10:38PM

irishfeen wrote: »

+1 ... I would love if TV3 was a real alternative to RTE, there are good people working at the station, one of which I know personally and who works much harder then his RTE counterparts but management cannot expect to keep running the business like they are currently doing.

Their refusal to get behind the DTT project is disgraceful and their refusal to go on Saorsat (for rural people who have no other television) is, for me the final straw. They are a terrestrial broadcaster who profit from being a terrestrial broadcaster so the BAI should put their foot down, name a date in which all fees for Saorview/Saorsat are paid and if that date is passed their broadcasting licence on all platforms should be suspended.

Two words, corruption, incompetence.

Skull Murphy · 31-12-2012 11:46AM

FREETV wrote: »

I was directly affected by that filthy phone slapper service by a cheating slag who did the same to her ex before me

Was that an episode of The Jeremy Kyle Show? (Beloved of TV3/3e/ITV.)

FREETV · 31-12-2012 03:56PM

No it wasn't, I wouldn't watch that crap, plenty of lowlife nationwide could be on an Irish tv programme version though. :rolleyes: All the dodgy websites and ads on TV3 and in newspapers are the culprits.

icdg · 31-12-2012 06:33PM

Back on topic or the thread will be closed. If people really want to discuss TV3 they can do it in Broadcasting or Television.

Saorview Content Speculation

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