Saorview Content Speculation

Elmo

STB wrote: »

Really. Lookup CPM.

Ireland Universe is tiny in comparison to the UK. So is the pie. Launching opt out adverts on a satellite service and paying/getting yourself on a state platform are 2 vastly different things!

Do not blame the PSB for being protective of its future. We certainly cannot afford to fund it any further!

Yes and as you know rights for programming cost less in a smaller market. You'll get some production but it will be minimal. and yes RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 should want to protect their small market from larger market predators. but what they are currently doing is little to protect themselves. TG4, IFB Channel and OTV should be one at the very least. RTÉ ONE +1 should be RTÉ PLUS/THREE. I am not expecting anything major but I am expecting a little more.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Yes and as you know rights for programming cost less in a smaller market. You'll get some production but it will be minimal. and yes RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 should want to protect their small market from larger market predators. but what they are currently doing is little to protect themselves. TG4, IFB Channel and OTV should be one at the very least. RTÉ ONE +1 should be RTÉ PLUS/THREE. I am not expecting anything major but I am expecting a little more.

I think we have had an unending series of disappointments with digtal TV. The long saga of payTV and its eventual non-appearance. This was followed by a long period of us guessing what RTE NL was going to do and they resolutely not saying and then doing something, or more likely, doing nothing. Eventually, TV3 had a hissy fit and threw their channels out of the pram. When they were convinced that they did not have to pay anything, they allowed them back in again. And on and on and on.

There have been three launches so far, and we will get another one when mux2 starts up with OTV HD. RTE was prevented from getting RTE3 (following another hissy fit) and stopped from advertising on RTE NN (hence its death) and so RTE stopped all interest in Saorview and went on to real TV issues (like how to manage a massive shortfall in cash).

I think that Saorview has been a complete success in as far as vmore people can receive it than ever could the old analogue, but a complete failure in that all possible benefits have been lost due to wrangles about fees and people defending their bailwicks.

I think 2013 has already been cancelled as far as DTV is concerned.

I wouldn't consider a frequency change or mux change to be a relaunch. If that's the case then Freeview has relaunched countless times.

Sam Russell

Karsini wrote: »

I wouldn't consider a frequency change or mux change to be a relaunch. If that's the case then Freeview has relaunched countless times.

Well, we will see how they treat it. Clearly, the launch in May, 2010 was only a little launch because nothing changed. Tv3 continued to demand free travel, and the Dept referred to a 'testing' phase, even though the service had been launched, first in October 2009, when Tv3 were addedand then deleted, and then added after they persuaded that there would be no charge. Then Minister Pat Rabbitte launchedcthe service in May 2010 in a moving ceromomy in Donneybrook, when nothing changed afterwards, as it was already in service. Then after 17 months of further testing, he launched it again in another moving ceromony in Donneybrook, when again nothinghappenned except this time they turned off the old analogue service. Now the main issue is agreeing transmission charges for a service that has been running for over two years. How could any service provider exist when they have been unable to charge for their services for over two years, and forced to continue a defunct and expensive legacey service for a year longer than necessary.

Expect a launch next year - there is an election coming for local and European Parliament in 2014 and Ministers like a nice launch.

sligotrain

The financial entry barrier to place a channel onto Saorview is ridiculously high - I wonder how long 3e would last on Saorview if TV3 were paying the published prices for Saorview. Not long I suspect.

Saorsat should be bundled by RTE NL as essentially another Saorview transmitter. I really don't think TV3/3e will go onto Saorsat ever, unless they get another free ride from RTE NL. As the minister points out occasionally, Saorsat is RTE NL's own initiative and is not specifically covered by legislation. Only through legislation or a free ride will TV3 ever go onto Saorsat.

MarkK

sligotrain wrote: »

The financial entry barrier to place a channel onto Saorview is ridiculously high - I wonder how long 3e would last on Saorview if TV3 were paying the published prices for Saorview.

What are the published prices for Saorview?

sligotrain

MarkK wrote: »

What are the published prices for Saorview?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rte-criticised-for-saorview-broadcast-fees-164604.html

watty

sligotrain wrote: »

The financial entry barrier to place a channel onto Saorview is ridiculously high

Actually for Terrestrial coverage it is normal. Not high.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.rte.ie/documents/about/rtenlwebsitetariffschedule290806.pdf

Under existing contracts with independent broadcasters (TV3 and TodayFM) tariffs
are determined, for all elements of annual charges, for the duration of the contract.
Tariffs change as set out in the contracts i.e., they increase annually in line with the
CPI (Consumer Price Index) or ESB Price Index, from a point set in 1997-98.


...

RTÉNL Charges to National TV and Radio Broadcasters 2006.

Capital Charge Operating Charge Power Charges Total Charge
TV3 - Contract 1997 737,715 1,326,331 299,580 2,363,626

http://cce.gno.ie/news/2012/08Aug/16asodso.php

In March 2011 RTÉ stated the following costs for carriage in 2013: -

Radio would cost from €60,000 to €92,000 per annum. Standard Definition TV channels would cost €948,000 per annum. RTÉ NL did state that cost would reduce as additional services join Saorview and that the costs in March 2011 were based on 2010. In other words RTÉ NL were providing a rough guide to Saorview carriage costs.

So TV3 are upset that their carriage costs are less than when they were being charged 2.3m back in '06 ?


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1102/1224326034345.html

The company’s turnover advanced to €59 million last year thanks to growth in revenues at its digital channel 3e and positive trends in online advertising.

The broadcaster, owned by venture capital firm Doughty Hanson, had a 28 per cent rise in earnings before tax and write-offs to €5.5 million, with operating profit at €3.7 million, up from €2 million.
....

This leaves TV3 with outstanding bank borrowings of €52 million, while the net loss for 2011 takes the company’s accumulated losses to €253 million.

So accumulated losses are over 100 times the annual transmission fee ?

Jpmarn

Looking at the recent posts there is an attitude the there would be nothing on mux 2 for 2013. But why was there widespread testing on mux2 just before Christmas?

watty

Not true.
As soon as TV3 wants HD, or TG4 wants HD or Oireachtas TV launches at all the 2nd mux is needed.

At least one of those if not all 3 is possible this year.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Not true.
As soon as TV3 wants HD, or TG4 wants HD or Oireachtas TV launches at all the 2nd mux is needed.

At least one of those if not all 3 is possible this year.

I'd be of the attitude that TV3 HD, TG4 HD, OTV won't appear on saorview in 2013.

The BAI will only start re-examining commerical DTT in mid-2013, a launch in mid-2014?

As time goes on it becomes even more unlikely.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

I'd be of the attitude that TV3 HD, TG4 HD, OTV won't appear on saorview in 2013.

The BAI will only start re-examining commerical DTT in mid-2013, a launch in mid-2014?

As time goes on it becomes even more unlikely.

I think the BAI are planning imposing payTV on us. It will be part of the new austerity.

STB

Jpmarn wrote: »

Looking at the recent posts there is an attitude the there would be nothing on mux 2 for 2013. But why was there widespread testing on mux2 just before Christmas?

New Mux Frequencies not tested before for starters!

marno21

STB wrote: »

New Mux Frequencies not tested before for starters!

Was there any interference between Maghera and Clonmel in parts of Tipp on that note?

Maghera Mux 2 broadcasts on the same frequency and polarisation as Clonmel's Mux 1 (C55). I know the Silvermines etc would block a lot of it but surely there's potential?

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the BAI are planning imposing payTV on us. It will be part of the new austerity.

No-one can have pay TV "imposed". If they do manage to get someone to launch it will go bust.

No-one is forced to subscribe to Pay TV.

Capt'n Midnight

If enough people moved from TV3 to watch the imports in HD on other channels then maybe TV3 might want HD enough to dip their hands into their pocket.


As for Pay TV, it'd have to offer something special to compete with 80%+ homes are already wired up for SKY/UPC. And both SKY and UPC can offer deals on phone and internet to strangle it at birth even if the regulator prevents them dropping their TV prices. Things like the likes of Neflix and other streaming services will also be nibbling at it's heels.

But they'll probably reserve bandwidth for a pay TV service to the detriment of Saorview.

Hotblack Desiato

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

As for Pay TV, it'd have to offer something special to compete with 80%+ homes are already wired up for SKY/UPC.

Don't forget the FTA Sat / Freesat homes too.

watty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But they'll probably reserve bandwidth for a pay TV service to the detriment of Saorview.

That would be difficult as there are 4 mux reserved for Saorview. If Pay Tv wants/needs more than the currently allocated space they can use DVB-T2.

The only way the VHF allocation was going to be used was if it was used by Saorview at the start. No PayTV operator would want it.

Other than that you are 100% correct.

The Cush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But they'll probably reserve bandwidth for a pay TV service to the detriment of Saorview.

The Broadcasting Act gifts 2 muxes to RTÉ for FTA PSB DTT, the Act also gives the BAI responsibilty to award 4 further muxes for DTT be that commercial or psb. A recent online article indicates that a third mux could be made available for Saorview if required.

The RRC06 frequency plan allocates 8 UHF and 1 VHF mux to Ireland. The awarding of any further muxes beyond the first 6 is the responsibility of the BAI.

The Cush

A Dáil question on Saorview mux content from the end of Nov

460. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan
asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his views on the criticism that existing Public Service Multiplex stations are being underused especially by RTE, TG4 and TG3; if any other applicants have been encouraged such as the Irish Film Board; if a third MUX will now go ahead; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52708/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): There is currently a single multiplex in operation on the SAORVIEW service. This provides access to eight TV channels including a HD channel, plus 10 radio stations. This multiplex is not underused.

The Broadcasting Act 2009 provides that a second multiplex could be operated by RTÉ in the event that additional capacity is required. This is intended to provide for HD versions of the 4 public service channels, an Irish film channel and an Oireachtas channel. Any additional capacity on the multiplex could be made available for other TV services.

There are substantial costs associated with the development and ongoing operation of new TV services and the development of these services is a matter for the broadcasters themselves.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012112700066?opendocument#Broadcasting Services

Sam Russell

Does this answer suggest that the 4 main channels are approved for HD and that both OTV and the IFTV channels are also approved? Strange, there has been no announcement to that effect. ...and would the minister like to make a statement on the matter?

watty

"Approval" isn't the issue for changing to HD or launching Oireachtas TV or IFB channel. The issue is purely financial.

There are substantial costs associated with the development and ongoing operation of new TV services and the development of these services is a matter for the broadcasters themselves.

Sam Russell

If it is a matter for the broadcasters themselves, then there is no reason for RTE NL not firing up the second mux as the additional cost would be significantly less than the cost of the analogue channels just shut down. Since there is no agreement for transmission charges (as far as we know), it will make little difference to RTE NL in the short term. RTE1 and TG4 could go HD with immediate effect (with upscaled content). TV3 would then have to decide to agree transmission charges or risk being bumped. The risk could be that if they withdraw then UTV might make a bid to go on Saorview (as an Irish version or as it is now).

Interesting times.

FREETV

watty wrote: »

"Approval" isn't the issue for changing to HD or launching Oireachtas TV or IFB channel. The issue is purely financial.

Well maybe they shouldn't have bailed out the banks and instead spent the money on providing a better PSB service along with burning the bondholders too.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does this answer suggest that the 4 main channels are approved for HD and that both OTV and the IFTV channels are also approved?

No, for RTÉ1 HD and TG4 HD, as public service channels, will have to get Ministerial approval after a consultation process as happened with RTÉ2 HD as per section 103 of the Broadcasting Act. But that'll only be formality.

As regards OTV and IFC, haven't they been approved as part of the BAI process when they advertised the spare PSB mux capacity. Now waiting for them to develop and launch their repective channels.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

As regards OTV and IFC, haven't they been approved as part of the BAI process when they advertised the spare PSB mux capacity. Now waiting for them to develop and launch their repective channels.

Wont happen in my opinion.

Nobody wants to/can pay for it. Budget cutting.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

No, for RTÉ1 HD and TG4 HD, as public service channels, will have to get Ministerial approval after a consultation process as happened with RTÉ2 HD as per section 103 of the Broadcasting Act. But that'll only be formality.

As regards OTV and IFC, haven't they been approved as part of the BAI process when they advertised the spare PSB mux capacity. Now waiting for them to develop and launch their repective channels.

DCENR AFAIK are reviewing weather or not they need to carry out section 103 of the broadcasting act 2009. Though it would probably take them as long to do what they are supposed to do. So RTÉ HD and TG4 HD could be up and running when both company decide.

BAI have not licenced any channel on foot of their report into EoIs, they have just made recommendations to the minister.

It can only get worse!

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Wont happen in my opinion.

Nobody wants to/can pay for it. Budget cutting.

OTV will happen, the last we heard on this was that the Ceann Comhairle was in discussion with the Minister/Dept of Communications to make it available on Saorview. The Minister has said the space is available on Saorview to launch when they decide to do so.

The Oireachtas communications strategy pubished by the Ceann Comhairle late last year said they wished to make the Oireachtas channel available to all households.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

BAI have not licenced any channel on foot of their report into EoIs, they have just made recommendations to the minister.

Approved by the Minister/Dept according to this article from last Sept, back to the BAI to advance the licensing process.