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Black ice everywhere

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Comments

  • #392
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    My MTB tyres are in Eindhoven at the moment after being in Germany yesterday (bike24.co.uk). I'm hoping that I get them in time for the weekend as I have a few jobs to do on the old MTB to make it properly usable. To do it all in one go would be ideal. I'm really interested to see how good they are. I haven't cycled yet this week and there's a party to be attended tomorrow so that will rule out tomorrow too.


  • #393
    MB Lacey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    doozerie wrote: »
    Not in terms of grip no, the studs will be pushed into the tyre so that the rubber treads make contact with the tarmac so grip on non icy days is equivalent to that of non-studded knobbly tyres (which is to say not quite as good as slicks, but still adequate). The studded tyres are heavier and roll a bit slower than non-studded tyres so you might be a little slower overall with studded tyres - for my 11km commute, it is a little harder work with studded tyres versus slicks but the difference is not so big as to bother me (and on the positive side, the extra exercise will do me good).

    I fitted my studded tyres 2 weeks ago and plan to leave them on my commute bike, regardless of weather, until probably March or so. This was my approach for the last 2 years and it worked out well.
    Perfect!


  • #394
    kenmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭kenmc


    irishmotorist wrote: »
    My MTB tyres are in Eindhoven at the moment after being in Germany yesterday (bike24.co.uk). I'm hoping that I get them in time for the weekend

    This is the delivery history for mine: I doubt you'll get yours tomorrow.
    Friday, December 07, 2012
    1 Shipment information received DRESDEN - GERMANY 00:00
    Thursday, December 06, 2012
    2 Processed at DRESDEN 15:22
    Friday, December 07, 2012 Location Time Pieces
    3 Processed at DUESSELDORF 04:31
    4 Departed Facility in DUESSELDORF 04:48
    5 Arrived at Sort Facility EINDHOVEN 18:05
    Saturday, December 08, 2012 Location Time Pieces
    6 Departed Facility in EINDHOVEN 01:59
    Monday, December 10, 2012 Location Time Pieces
    7 Arrived at Sort Facility DUBLIN - 16:12
    8 Arrived at Delivery Facility in DUBLIN 21:25
    Tuesday, December 11, 2012
    9 With delivery courier DUBLIN 08:37
    10 Delivered 15:05


  • #395
    Raam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    Even changing wheels each morning would be messy, plus I'm lazy!

    Messy? What do you be at when changing wheels?


  • #396
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    irishmotorist wrote: »
    My MTB tyres are in Eindhoven at the moment after being in Germany yesterday (bike24.co.uk). I'm hoping that I get them in time for the weekend as I have a few jobs to do on the old MTB to make it properly usable. To do it all in one go would be ideal. I'm really interested to see how good they are. I haven't cycled yet this week and there's a party to be attended tomorrow so that will rule out tomorrow too.


    Sorry to burst your balloon, but when An Post get their paws on them expect them to languish for up to a week somehwere around Portlaoise.


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  • #397
    MB Lacey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    Raam wrote: »
    Messy? What do you be at when changing wheels?
    My commuter bike wheels are filthy, I merely have to look at them and my hands turn black.


  • #398
    MB Lacey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your balloon, but when An Post get their paws on them expect them to languish for up to a week somehwere around Portlaoise.
    Just got an email from bike 24 saying my tyres left Dresden today, I ordered mine Tues night and thought they might arrive today or tomorrow :cool:


  • #399
    kenmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your balloon, but when An Post get their paws on them expect them to languish for up to a week somehwere around Portlaoise.
    my stuff was dhl right to the door, no an post intervention needed


  • #400
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    smacl wrote: »
    So its those b@stard cyclists with studs tearing up our otherwise pristine cycle lanes. Here was me thinking it was the cars, lorries, tractors and various other motorised vehicles that shouldn't be there doing the damage. Who'da thunk it. Maybe the protective layer of broken glass and rotten leaves will help some. :rolleyes:


    No, anybody who's using anything with Tungsten Carbide tips is adding to the wear and tear on road surfaces, no where did I say that it was all cyclists but Tungsten Carbide and Bitumen do not mix well.

    And as to the co-efficient of friction between the tyre rubber and the studs, poppycock, if that were the case then places like Germany/USA/Finland etc. would be strewn with studs shed from cars, after all they still use the same rubber compounds in their tyres or do cyclists have some penchant for crap rubber compounds


  • #401
    doozerie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    And as to the co-efficient of friction between the tyre rubber and the studs, poppycock, if that were the case then places like Germany/USA/Finland etc. would be strewn with studs shed from cars, after all they still use the same rubber compounds in their tyres or do cyclists have some penchant for crap rubber compounds

    You seem to have absolutely no knowledge or experience of bicycle studded tyres, how they work, or how they are constructed. I'm on my third winter of my studded tyres, and in that time I've had to replace about 20 studs that popped out of them - I've gotten very up close and personal with them.

    You seem to believe that bicycle studded tyres carve up the roads. I've been riding the same commute routes since I started using my tyres, but in that time, try as I might, I've been unable to have even the slightest detectable impact on the poor roads that have been subjected to my scourge.

    Yet, I'm apparently the one talking poppycock? Intriguing.


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  • #402
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    kenmc wrote: »
    This is the delivery history for mine....
    Mine says that it left Eindhoven in the early hours of this morning, but no updates yet. I suppose I'm hoping they reach Dublin tonight and get delivered tomorrow. Probably asking a bit much though.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your balloon, but when An Post get their paws on them expect them to languish for up to a week somehwere around Portlaoise.

    Like Ken, they're DHL so I'm optimistic of no silly delays.


  • #403
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No, anybody who's using anything with Tungsten Carbide tips is adding to the wear and tear on road surfaces, no where did I say that it was all cyclists but Tungsten Carbide and Bitumen do not mix well.

    You realise we're discussing bikes here. Push bikes, where the combined rider and bike weight will typically be less than 100kg. Are you seriously suggesting that cyclists with studded tyres have a measurable, let alone significant, effect on the wear and tear of roads? How many hundreds of such cyclists do you think it would it take, doing their worst, to have a similar effect to a braking car. How many tens of thousands would it take to do similar damage to one articulated lorry?

    Wearing down a road takes a lot of friction which in turn requires forces way beyond which a push bike will generate. A top competitive cyclist might just output a couple kilowatts in a short burst of effort. Many mid-ranges cars will output about 300 horsepower or 224kw, typically >100 times that of our top athlete and well over 1000 times that of most cycling commuters on their daily jaunt. From a standing start, that energy goes into tearing up the road. Who do you think does more damage, the car, or the commuting cyclist with studded tyres?

    Sorry, but suggesting that cycling contributes to wear and tear of roads is a piece of fantasy. Doesn't matter what's on the tyres. Could you point out any location in the country where the paved road has be worn down by cyclists?

    Edit: And if there's any ice on the road, you can be guaranteed the freezing process necessary to create it has done way more damage than any cyclist or most cars are likely too.

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  • #404
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,507 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    There is a GARGANTUAN pothole on Merrion Street Upper. I doubt it was caused by a bike.

    Think of it this way: which caused more damage to golf course fairways: people with spiked shoes or golf buggys?


  • #405
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I want to get studded tyres for my hybrid which has 700cx28 tyres with disc brakes. Would swapping for bigger MTB rims or fitting the 622x30 Schwalbes be an option? I'd be happy enough to swap quick release wheels in the morning if icy.

    Having the fall and a fair number of near slips has made me fearful of falling in front of a car or bus. Also I'm thinking back to when the buses were stuck in the snow for 5 hours last winter so being bale to put wider mtb wheels on with studded tyres might be an option for snow?


  • #406
    Zorba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭Zorba


    Can someone give me an accurate forecast, ice and snow wise for the next say 2 or 3 months so i can make a decision whether to order these damn studded tires i keep reading about !

    Came off the bike 2 weeks ago thanks to slicks and black ice but told myself there's no point getting them studded tires cos the frost and ice won't be around much......now i'm thinking but if i did have them i could keep on commuting and then i'm thinking if i get them there will be no frost for the next 2 or 3 months.......:confused:


  • #407
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    smacl wrote: »
    You realise we're discussing bikes here. Push bikes, where the comb<snipped>or most cars are likely too.

    I realise exactly what we are talking about considering the forum is "cycling".

    You do realise that part of the cause of wear and roads is also the pressure exerted by things moving and standing on them, so here's a little exercise for you..

    Bike and rider weighing a modest 50Kg, what force is being exerted per square cm from that combination assuming a MTB footprint of 131mmx29mm per tyre

    Car and driver weigh in at 2000Kg, what force is being exerted per sq cm from that combination assuming a footprint area of 195/65 tyre is approx 10cmx20cm

    Now extrapolate and work out the pressure being exerted when instead of rubber you have Tungsten Carbide pins as the main contact points to the road


  • #408
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,514 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I realise exactly what we are talking about considering the forum is "cycling".

    You do realise that part of the cause of wear and roads is also the pressure exerted by things moving and standing on them, so here's a little exercise for you..

    Bike and rider weighing a modest 50Kg, what force is being exerted per square cm from that combination assuming a MTB footprint of 131mmx29mm per tyre

    Car and driver weigh in at 2000Kg, what force is being exerted per sq cm from that combination assuming a footprint area of 195/65 tyre is approx 10cmx20cm

    Now extrapolate and work out the pressure being exerted when instead of rubber you have Tungsten Carbide pins as the main contact points to the road

    Pressure is not an accurate guide to road wear.

    As far as I know, large trucks have similar ground pressure to cars, and much less than a bicycle, yet they do far more damage to the roads than either.

    I'll be happy to test this by letting you ride over me slowly with a bicycle, and then riding over you slowly in my car.


  • #409
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Lumen wrote: »
    Pressure is not an accurate guide to road wear.

    As far as I know, large trucks have similar ground pressure to cars, and much less than a bicycle, yet they do far more damage to the roads than either.

    I'll be happy to test this by letting you ride over me slowly with a bicycle, and then riding over you slowly in my car.

    Despite your pontifications being run over by a car doesn't always equate to death

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX_l038wOic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqTp4wZjtMI


  • #410
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,212 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Despite your pontifications being run over by a car doesn't always equate to death

    Does that mean you'll let him do it!?


  • #411
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    buffalo wrote: »
    Does that mean you'll let him do it!?

    Not really I'm no good at skateboarding


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  • #412
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    MOD VOICE: Way off topic, I have given one warning in thread already, this thread is about black ice, where/when/if its present, and a couple of anecdotes thrown in,it has nothing to do with ground wear by tyres with studs, next person to mention wear by tyres can take a holiday.

    EDIT: I also forgot stories to help deal with black ice eg special tyres and where to get them, and how effective they are but not about road wear

    Now back on topic, its pissing rain so I expect no black ice in the Goatstown area this morning. I do expect my cough to get worse though.


  • #413
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Zorba wrote: »
    Can someone give me an accurate forecast, ice and snow wise for the next say 2 or 3 months so i can make a decision whether to order these damn studded tires i keep reading about !

    I'm very sceptical of long range forecasts, I tend to go with the met 5 day forecast and don't trust much beyond day 3. That said, we've had some ice on roads most winters, and lots on some winters, so if you've got a few bob spare are commuting early morning, and have rims and clearance to support them, spikes could be a decent investment. An earlier post by a more experienced type than myself in this regard suggests that leaving the studs on for the entire winter is a good approach.

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  • #414
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    Zorba wrote: »
    Can someone give me an accurate forecast, ice and snow wise for the next say 2 or 3 months so i can make a decision whether to order these damn studded tires i keep reading about !

    Came off the bike 2 weeks ago thanks to slicks and black ice but told myself there's no point getting them studded tires cos the frost and ice won't be around much......now i'm thinking but if i did have them i could keep on commuting and then i'm thinking if i get them there will be no frost for the next 2 or 3 months.......:confused:

    I'm getting them because I haven't cycled in a week due to icy roads. Long range forecasts will not tell you about 2 or 3 months so I'm taking the view that if we only get 2 more icy days this winter, so be it. I will have them next winter and the winter after and I will eventually get value for them. That said, January is usually the coldest, most icy month, so I think that on average I will be using them a fair bit during January. For that reason, I'm in!


  • #415
    kenmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭kenmc


    irishmotorist wrote: »
    I'm getting them because I haven't cycled in a week due to icy roads. Long range forecasts will not tell you about 2 or 3 months so I'm taking the view that if we only get 2 more icy days this winter, so be it. I will have them next winter and the winter after and I will eventually get value for them. That said, January is usually the coldest, most icy month, so I think that on average I will be using them a fair bit during January. For that reason, I'm in!
    That's it exactly, I got mine 3 years ago, winter 2010, so while they're expensive initially, over a couple of years they work out very reasonable. And they save wear on the other tyres while they're not being used. Same as the winter tyres I have for the car.

    But yeah, horrible morning for cycling, wet and dark, unbelievably dark. It's usually brightened up enough by the time I get into work to open the doorlock without my lights on, but not this morning. Anyone who says they prefer this sort of weather to that we had earlier in the week needs their head examined.

    Bring back the cold.


  • #416
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,499 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    No ice in North County Dublin this morning, but that tractor I got "stuck behind" for about 5km was kicking up a ton of crappy rainwater into my face ...


  • #417
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Beasty wrote: »
    No ice in North County Dublin this morning, but that tractor I got "stuck behind" for about 5km was kicking up a ton of crappy rainwater into my face ...

    Same here, I just put the windscreen wipers on there fastest setting, turned up the heater, then passed the tractor when i got the chance! :D


  • #418
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    Winter tyres arrived! Jesus - they're some weight though. Now to get them fitted over the weekend and wait for the next ice!


  • #419
    MB Lacey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    irishmotorist wrote: »
    Winter tyres arrived! Jesus - they're some weight though. Now to get them fitted over the weekend and wait for the next ice!

    When did you order them so I can work out when mine will arrive?
    Also, how are they packaged when delivered, just wondering if there's any chance at all I could cycle home with them (they're going to be delivered to my workplace, it would be a 9k cycle home).
    Actually, I could just throw them over my shoulder and across my chest and cycle.. :D


  • #420
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    Ordered on Tuesday and delivered today. They came in a long oblong box - they're twisted inside it. Here's my DHL log - it hasn't registered that they've been delivered yet though!
    The instruction data for this shipment have been provided by the sender to DHL electronically

    Tue, 11.12.2012 17:59 h Ottendorf-Okrilla, Germany The international shipment has been processed in the parcel center of origin

    Wed, 12.12.2012 06:20 h Krefeld, Germany The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center

    Wed, 12.12.2012 18:18 h Eindhoven, Netherlands The shipment has arrived at the parcel center.

    Thu, 13.12.2012 00:58 h Eindhoven, Netherlands The shipment has left the parcel center.

    Fri, 14.12.2012 01:16 h Dublin, Ireland The transport process has been delayed.

    Fri, 14.12.2012 06:39 h Dublin, Ireland The shipment has arrived at the parcel center.

    Fri, 14.12.2012 07:12 h Dublin, Ireland The shipment has arrived at the delivery depot.

    Fri, 14.12.2012 08:41 h Dublin, Ireland The shipment has been loaded onto the delivery vehicle


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  • #421
    irishmotorist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭irishmotorist


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    Actually, I could just throw them over my shoulder and across my chest and cycle.. :D

    Now that I think about it, if you do them cross ways, one over each shoulder, you'll look like you've got two bullet belts :D Nobody will mess with you on the way home!


This discussion has been closed.
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