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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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    #1082
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    the_syco wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that the IRA killed more Catholics than the british forces did.

    BTW, which colour poppy are we talking about? The white one or the red one?


    Being catholic is a nationality now?


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    #1083
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    the_syco wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that the IRA killed more Catholics than the british forces did.

    This ignores many things and is horribly reductive.

    The loyalist death gangs got much of their weaponry and training from the UDR which was a regiment of the BA. Also, there was collusion between British security forces and loyalist death squads. How many deaths of Catholic civilians are attributable to this unholy alliance?


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    #1084
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    noodler wrote: »
    I don't wear one but I am very grateful for the British saving Ireland from certain invasion in the Second World War Two.


    Britain would have been wiped out by the germans if it was a case of Britain v Germany. The allies i think as a whole maybe something you should br grateful of.


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    #1085
    whatsthetime
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭whatsthetime


    billybudd wrote: »
    Britain would have been wiped out by the germans if it was a case of Britain v Germany. The allies i think as a whole maybe something you should br grateful of.

    Very true


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    #1086
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    billybudd wrote: »
    Britain would have been wiped out by the germans if it was a case of Britain v Germany. The allies i think as a whole maybe something you should br grateful of.

    why did the germans not invade then.......????

    were they just too nice....????


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    #1087
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    golden lane wrote: »
    why did the germans not invade then.......????

    were they just too nice....????


    Stragetic planning i guess. they had bigger fish to fry first probaly.


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    #1088
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    billybudd wrote: »
    Stragetic planning i guess. they had bigger fish to fry first probaly.

    You should try reading a history book or two before posting again. :D


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    #1089
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    You should try reading a history book or two before posting again. :D


    really depends on what history books you believe.


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    #1090
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    billybudd wrote: »
    Stragetic planning i guess. they had bigger fish to fry first probaly.

    you mean they couldn't beat the air force or navy....it was no longer a surprise......

    so they took on the untermensch russians.....and got the shoite beaten out of them.......

    they lost five million of their citizens........and great tracts of their country....

    how clever is that......


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    #1091
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    golden lane wrote: »
    why did the germans not invade then.......????

    The English Channel.

    Blitzkrieg was designed for land based rapid advancement warfare.

    The British Navy.

    The RAF.

    The Eastern Front.

    Hitler liked tea and crumpets and hoped to form an alliance with the British.


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    #1092
    summerskin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭summerskin


    billybudd wrote: »


    really depends on what history books you believe.

    Is that because Irish ones are the only accurate ones and not peddling. Anti-British propaganda?


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    #1093
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    golden lane wrote: »
    you mean they couldn't beat the air force or navy....it was no longer a surprise......

    so they took on the untermensch russians.....and got the shoite beaten out of them.......

    they lost five million of their citizens........and great tracts of their country....

    how clever is that......


    I never said they were clever, i gather from some history books they planned too but because of the position of Britain that they could not raise a superior air force as money was being spent else where in mainland europe to fight and ooccupy mainland europe countries first and when this was achieved to move onto islands when they had the rest of europe occupied.


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    #1094
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    summerskin wrote: »
    Is that because Irish ones are the only accurate ones and not peddling. Anti-British propaganda?


    I never mentioned Irish history books, your apparent hatred of Ireland is ugly.


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    #1095
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    billybudd wrote: »
    I never said they were clever, i gather from some history books they planned too but because of the position of Britain that they could not raise a superior air force as money was being spent else where in mainland europe to fight and ooccupy mainland europe countries first and when this was achieved to move onto islands when they had the rest of europe occupied.

    Don't know what books you found that in - any chance of a link?


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    #1096
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Rhinocharge wrote: »
    The red poppy symbolises the blood that was spilt in Flanders & was the seen to be the only flower to grow there afterwards.
    The blood of one side only. Hardly a gesture symbolising the futility of war.
    Rhinocharge wrote: »
    Alot of Irish men fought in the Great War & many did not return. The poppy honours their memory, both those whom returned home & those whom sleep there still.
    So did a lot of Germans, are their lives not worth honouring too? Nope only Irish and by extension the side they were fighting on matter.

    The red poppy may have symbolised one thing but it raises money for another. Most people wouldn't have a problem attending a Holocaust memorial but many would rightly baulk if it was used to help fund Israeli Defence Force soldiers involved in battle with Palestinians. It would have become a political symbol - no different to what has happened with the poppy.
    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Just got a huge poppy for the front of my car. Local reactions should be interesting.
    I think this post pretty much sums up why (most) Irish people would wear a poppy.

    Not to rememberer soldiers who died in the World Wars
    Not to raise money for soldiers involved in recent conflicts.
    But rather a misguided attempt to piss off the Shinners.

    And a final point on the (unrelated to this thread) lily. I don't wear it, never have for a number of reasons, primarily

    1) I have little idea who it raises funds for
    2) if it is for the NGA, I don't see grave-tending as a particularly worthy cause.
    3) The NGA aren't a charity

    Disagreeing with the poppy and who it funds doesn't mean that by default I embrace a republican symbol.


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    #1097
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Don't what books you found that in - any chance of a link?


    Various things i have read over the years, i will do my best to find them and link them when i had time.


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    #1098
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    golden lane wrote: »
    you mean they couldn't beat the air force or navy....it was no longer a surprise......

    so they took on the untermensch russians.....and got the shoite beaten out of them.......

    they lost five million of their citizens........and great tracts of their country....

    how clever is that......
    Don't be ridiculous. I don't doubt the British valour in the war but they were no match for the Germans on the field. This isn't surprising island nations tend to lose out against continental ones.


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    #1099
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »


    Whats that to do with the poppy?

    Nothing.

    Says a lot about people who wear the Lilly but chastise those who wear the poppy for commemorating murderers though.

    I believe it is called hypocrisy.


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    #1100
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Don't be ridiculous. I don't doubt the British valour in the war but they were no match for the Germans on the field. This isn't surprising island nations tend to lose out against continental ones.

    Like Agincourt http://www.britishbattles.com/100-years-war/agincourt.htm and Waterloo http://www.britishbattles.com/waterloo/waterloo-june-1815.htm I suppose. :rolleyes:


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    #1101
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Can we not just declare a truce, an armistice day ? maybe have a day of remembrance for all posters.


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    #1102
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    celebrate the death of the celtic tiger...????


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    #1103
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Don't what know books you found that in - any chance of a link?


    http://worldwar2questions.blogspot.ie/2007/06/could-germany-have-invaded-and.html

    Thats quite an impartial view of one opinion, i will link some more in time, one of my points was that no one knows for sure why Britain was not invaded and there are many theories.

    I still stand by original comment that if it was just Britain against Germany then Germany would have won just purely based on size, eventually they would have penetrated British land.


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    #1104
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    billybudd wrote: »


    http://worldwar2questions.blogspot.ie/2007/06/could-germany-have-invaded-and.html

    Thats quite an impartial view of one opinion, i will link some more in time, one of my points was that no one knows for sure why Britain was not invaded and there are many theories.

    I still stand by original comment that if it was just Britain against Germany then Germany would have won just purely based on size, eventually they would have penetrated British land.

    Maybe, Maybe not.

    It does not detract from the bravery of the RAF, Royal Navy and Merchant navy who, for a time, stood alone against possibly the biggest evil Europe has ever seen,

    Does it not?


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    #1105
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Maybe, Maybe not.

    It does not detract from the bravery of the RAF, Royal Navy and Merchant navy who, for a time,


    stood alone against possibly the biggest evil Europe has ever seen,

    Does it not?


    Not arguing that.


    No comment :pac:


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    #1106
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Nothing.

    Says a lot about people who wear the Lilly but chastise those who wear the poppy for commemorating murderers though.

    I believe it is called hypocrisy.


    So its another variation on the "but the belgians.../"but Gerry adams..." line. Fair enuffski.


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    #1107
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    billybudd wrote: »
    http://worldwar2questions.blogspot.ie/2007/06/could-germany-have-invaded-and.html

    Thats quite an impartial view of one opinion, i will link some more in time, one of my points was that no one knows for sure why Britain was not invaded and there are many theories.

    I still stand by original comment that if it was just Britain against Germany then Germany would have won just purely based on size, eventually they would have penetrated British land.

    Not a very convincing link I'm afraid. Anyway without supremacy of the air the Germans were never going to be able to mount an invasion. The lack of suitable transport ships, the presence of the Royal Navy, the treacherous channel weather all combined to defer and eventually cancel the invasion plans. There's no doubt that Hitler's decision to attack the USSR was his eventual undoing but even had he managed to invade Britain there were contingency plans to fight on from Canada. The only way the Germans could have won the war was to have developed the A-bomb first and we can be might thankful they didn't as they wouldn't have been discriminating in using it. It's worth contemplating that if Britain had stayed out of the war, Hitler's scientists would have had all the time in the world to develop such weapons as the USA would also have stayed out.


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    #1108
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Not a very convincing link I'm afraid. Anyway without supremacy of the air the Germans were never going to be able to mount an invasion. The lack of suitable transport ships, the presence of the Royal Navy, the treacherous channel weather all combined to defer and eventually cancel the invasion plans. There's no doubt that Hitler's decision to attack the USSR was his eventual undoing but even had he managed to invade Britain there were contingency plans to fight on from Canada. The only way the Germans could have won the war was to have developed the A-bomb first and we can be might thankful they didn't as they wouldn't have been discriminating in using it. It's worth contemplating that if Britain had stayed out of the war, Hitler's scientists would have had all the time in the world to develop such weapons as the USA would also have stayed out.


    Some fair points, but that is not really my original arguement,one on one, who would win?

    There is plenty of theories though that hitler prioritised not only the USSR but the east of the world and after winning those battles then Britain would become a easy place to conquer even without having to do battle.


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    #1109
    caste_in_exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭caste_in_exile


    stop bein so exclusively embroiled in this stuff, Frederick.. spouting that poppycock have you discovered the make love not pawrn, thread for instance.


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    #1110
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    How many deaths of Catholic civilians are attributable to this unholy alliance?
    My point; the IRA did a great job protecting the catholics by killing catholics without the BA & loyalst terrorist organisations help.


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    #1111
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    What does any of this have to do with the IRA? Telling how the only response the British nationalists can come up with to the reality of their army is "but the IRA did x"


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