The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

Bungy Girl · 18-07-2012 11:20am

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

What's your current 10k PB?

Thanks BeepBeep. It's 48:30

but it's 2 years old and I think I could beat it if I went out and raced a 10K tomorrow. I haven't actually raced the distance since. So I know 45:00 is a big stretch but I do think it's in me....somewhere :rolleyes:. I suppose I think if I can do these workouts by myself and not give up half way through (which I wanted to do) then it might make it easier to achieve the target when I'm in a race situation. I do find races much easier than training and also hoping the racing flats will be worth a few seconds too! TBH I'll be happy with any PB but 45:00 is the magic number and it looks like lots of people on here found these workouts helpful.

wrstan · 18-07-2012 11:59am

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Found this thread and decided to try the workout in preparation for a 10K in September. Mapped out a mile loop (undulating, but so is the race in Sept.). I'm targetting a 45:00 10k which is ambitious for me but my times for other distances have been coming down so I'll never know unless I try! Target pace for the 6 x 1mile repeats was 7:15 and I hit the first 4 ok in an average of 7:16 but really really really wanted to die during the last two and was way off target (7:35, 7:39). Just interested to know from those who've done it before, did you find the workouts tough at first too or should I give myself a softer target this time and aim for another 10K later in the year ? I'm doing a LSR at the weekend of 8 - 10 miles and 3 other easy runs 3 - 6 miles and/or the odd shorter race. Any advice would be very welcome. Thanks.

There's no doubt these are tough sessions, but that's why they're good sessions. My advice would be to stick at it. The first of the McMillan sessions I did was 1x2 mile followed by 2X1 mile all at race pace. That last 1 mile interval was definitely the hardest of the entire programme. (I was suffering from a little alcohol in the petrol tank that day which probably didn't help

)
I combined them with 400's for my other key session during the week.

macinalli · 18-07-2012 2:24pm

wrstan wrote: »

I combined them with 400's for my other key session during the week.

I think that's an interesting point and something that Bungy Girl could be missing out on. If all of her runs are either easy or an LSR you will see some improvement due to better fitness, but after a while that will start to level off and you'll need something extra to keep improving. 400's are mentioned above, but my vote would be for something like a pace run. Find a pace that's slower than your 10k pace, but faster than your HM pace and run that for maybe 20-30 minutes. After that try to gradually increase the time (not the speed, never go faster than your 10k pace) up towards 40 minutes. If you do this right it will feel very easy at the start and very hard at the end. Also, make sure to include a warm-up!

antomagoo · 18-07-2012 5:08pm

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Found this thread and decided to try the workout in preparation for a 10K in September. Mapped out a mile loop (undulating, but so is the race in Sept.). I'm targetting a 45:00 10k which is ambitious for me but my times for other distances have been coming down so I'll never know unless I try! Target pace for the 6 x 1mile repeats was 7:15 and I hit the first 4 ok in an average of 7:16 but really really really wanted to die during the last two and was way off target (7:35, 7:39). Just interested to know from those who've done it before, did you find the workouts tough at first too or should I give myself a softer target this time and aim for another 10K later in the year ? I'm doing a LSR at the weekend of 8 - 10 miles and 3 other easy runs 3 - 6 miles and/or the odd shorter race. Any advice would be very welcome. Thanks.

If your talking about the 10K I think your talking about, there is a right sh*t of a hill on the back leg.

Should these sessions be limited to the track while throwing in hill work on your other runs. For example if on a short, 6-10 mile run, should you pick a route with one or two hills and up the pace when climbing?

BeepBeep67 · 18-07-2012 5:37pm

antomagoo wrote: »

If your talking about the 10K I think your talking about, there is a right sh*t of a hill on the back leg.

Should these sessions be limited to the track while throwing in hill work on your other runs. For example if on a short, 6-10 mile run, should you pick a route with one or two hills and up the pace when climbing?

I try to do my sessions on grass (your working a little harder, with less impact) on a loop that's relatively flat, so you can just concentrate on pace. You can put your hill work into a different session, option could be hill repeats or 4 mile tempo ending with a hilly last mile.

Bungy Girl · 19-07-2012 9:00am

Thanks folks for all the helpful advice. I'm going to swap one of my easy runs for something a bit tougher as suggested here, maybe alternate on a weekly basis between hill reps and the pace run. Next up is the 1 x 2 mile and 4 x 1 mile :eek:. Will definitely try to find a grass loop for this - if anyone spots a purple-faced

, wheezing runner running around a northside GAA pitch at 6am say hi !

Kissy Lips · 07-11-2012 8:02pm

shels4ever wrote: »

Got this in an email today thoguh someone might find it useful.

Full article here

Would this be good for 5 mile training or are is there a better 5 mile plan? Ill be targetting the Raheny 5 on 27th Jan.

ronnie085 · 07-11-2012 8:57pm

If you completed it it would leave you in great shape for the five miler, theres no real difference in training for a 5 miler or a 10k

village runner · 08-11-2012 12:00pm

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Would this be good for 5 mile training or are is there a better 5 mile plan? Ill be targetting the Raheny 5 on 27th Jan.

Amend the workOuts to go with pace. I would rather you get used to running at your goal pace. Rem 10k pace will be a little slower. Instead of 6 x 1 mile do 5 and so on. But focus on your goal pace. It's mentally to get used to running at that pace

RayCun · 08-11-2012 12:04pm

We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
as prep for Raheny

Krusty_Clown · 08-11-2012 12:07pm

RayCun wrote: »

We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
as prep for Raheny

Looks good, but I would have thought that the last session should be:
1 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile, 1 x 2 mile at pace (January)
to better emulate the race environment, where you expect the end of the race to be harder.

RayCun · 08-11-2012 12:18pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Looks good, but I would have thought that the last session should be:
1 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile, 1 x 2 mile at pace (January)
to better emulate the race environment, where you expect the end of the race to be harder.

Good idea

NiallG4 · 08-11-2012 12:39pm

RayCun wrote: »

We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
as prep for Raheny

`
What recovery are you proposing

RayCun · 08-11-2012 1:11pm

NiallG4 wrote: »

`
What recovery are you proposing

as in the OP - 3 to 4 minutes recovery jog between the mile repeats, 5 minutes after the 2 miles

MC21 · 11-11-2012 9:38pm

great plan. Slightly scared. on a 5k training plan at the moment - maybe this next !

pconn062 · 12-11-2012 12:31am

RayCun wrote: »

as in the OP - 3 to 4 minutes recovery jog between the mile repeats, 5 minutes after the 2 miles

I've done the 10k sessions in the McMillan plan and I actually found the recovery for the sessions a bit too long, I know 5 mile pace will be a touch quicker and harder but I would try and cut it down a touch, 2-3 minutes between the mile and 4 minutes max between the 2 mile sets. My coach would always advocate the shortest recoveries you can mange to best simulate race pace discomfort.

Royal Legend · 12-11-2012 12:41am

great info

seanie_m · 13-11-2012 2:38am

RayCun wrote: »

We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
as prep for Raheny

Are you aiming for any specific pace during the recovery jogs between sets? And how many days a week will you perform this routine? I'm aiming to go 31:xx in Raheny, not too sure how that will go but in the past week I've run three 5kms sub-20 (19:13, 19:31, 19:52). Still being a relative novice in terms of running, can I assume that my times are getting progressively slower due to lack of proper recovery between going for 'hard' runs? A 42minute 10km thrown in there during the week too...
God reading that it does sound like I'm taking too much on myself too soon. But then again when you have caught the bug to go out for a run, its hard to discipline yourself to take the night off/take a slower pace.

RayCun · 13-11-2012 10:00am

In between sets its just jog recovery. As slow as you can, you just want to keep the legs moving so they don't stiffen up between the runs.
We're doing this once a month.
You're getting slower in your 5ks because you're getting tired. There's really no point in running 3 hard 5ks (and a hard 10k!) in a week.
How many days a week can you train?

seanie_m · 13-11-2012 10:19am

RayCun wrote: »

In between sets its just jog recovery. As slow as you can, you just want to keep the legs moving so they don't stiffen up between the runs.
We're doing this once a month.
You're getting slower in your 5ks because you're getting tired. There's really no point in running 3 hard 5ks (and a hard 10k!) in a week.
How many days a week can you train?

Ah I see! Its evidently a much tougher run than I had given it credit for. I'll spread out the harder runs from now on. Would you recommend keeping it at just one per week? I'd be well able to train 4 or 5 days a week until January, so had been considering getting in one session per week of doing 400m intervals as some speed-work. Again I know these will be tough sessions, I already scuppered my DCM training by getting ITBS back in August, but do you think they'd be of benefit? Thanks Ray

RayCun · 13-11-2012 10:29am

On 4/5 days a week, I'd stick with one hard session, one long run, and three easy runs each week. The McMillan workout could be the hard session, or 10/12 x 400, 6 x 800, 2 x 20 minute tempo, fartlek, hill sprints, things like that. Your long run could be about 90 minutes running. Everything else - easy pace, under an hour.

Krusty_Clown · 13-11-2012 10:33am

RayCun wrote: »

We're doing this once a month.

I presume you mean that you're doing one of these McMillan adjusted 5 mile sessions per month. If so, I have to ask, is that really advisable? The (original) plan was designed to be completed over an 8 week period, with one of these sessions every other week. If you complete one session and the gap to the next is four weeks (instead of two weeks), then any training benefit will largely have dwindled away. The plan is designed as a set of building blocks, with each subsequent session building on the previous session, until your crescendo (race).

I'm sure you will be doing other types of training in the intervening period between your planned sessions, but the chances are that you will find each subsequent McMillan training session increasingly difficult, as you have made the gap from the previous session too great. Thoughts?

RayCun · 13-11-2012 10:58am

It's a good point.
I suppose there were a few reasons for the (hastily put-together

) plan to look like this -
the two weeks at the end of December are a wash, there won't be any club sessions then
we have a regular hill session on Stocking Lane that everyone likes (partly because it's hard, partly because everyone gets to train together, which is hard in winter) and I wanted to keep that in regularly
and mainly, I wanted to have a race-focused session early in the plan. 5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace -> Raheny 5

If the next block of training is directed towards the GIR/national 10k we'll think about keeping to the 8 week plan (and there'll be an extra session in the mix). For this block, the McMillan sessions will partly be training, partly be progress checks. People are going to be learning their pace in these sessions as well as improving on that pace.

seanie_m · 13-11-2012 3:10pm

RayCun wrote: »

On 4/5 days a week, I'd stick with one hard session, one long run, and three easy runs each week. The McMillan workout could be the hard session, or 10/12 x 400, 6 x 800, 2 x 20 minute tempo, fartlek, hill sprints, things like that. Your long run could be about 90 minutes running. Everything else - easy pace, under an hour.

Thanks for the help Ray.

Krusty_Clown · 13-11-2012 3:24pm

RayCun wrote: »

It's a good point.
I suppose there were a few reasons for the (hastily put-together ) plan to look like this -
the two weeks at the end of December are a wash, there won't be any club sessions then
we have a regular hill session on Stocking Lane that everyone likes (partly because it's hard, partly because everyone gets to train together, which is hard in winter) and I wanted to keep that in regularly
and mainly, I wanted to have a race-focused session early in the plan. 5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace -> Raheny 5

If the next block of training is directed towards the GIR/national 10k we'll think about keeping to the 8 week plan (and there'll be an extra session in the mix). For this block, the McMillan sessions will partly be training, partly be progress checks. People are going to be learning their pace in these sessions as well as improving on that pace.

I guess if you treat them as individual workouts, and don't have the same level of expectations as if you had run them all in the described sequence. The later workouts could be incredibly tough though (and have an impact on confidence).

RayCun · 13-11-2012 3:40pm

That last session is tough any way you build up to it

suckler man · 15-11-2012 11:48pm

shels4ever wrote: »

Got this in an email today thoguh someone might find it useful.

Full article here

im a 15 year old runner but need to improve my pace in my races,what training would i need to build up my pace

thanks

RayCun · 16-11-2012 9:50am

What training are you doing now? What races are you doing?
Have you been running for 15 years, or are you 15 years old?

suckler man · 16-11-2012 8:03pm

RayCun wrote: »

What training are you doing now? What races are you doing?
Have you been running for 15 years, or are you 15 years old?

i am 15 years old,and am running 5 days a week came 11 th in the munsters u16 and u17,my best run to date is 10th in the all irelands,i was just wondering how to improve my pace because i cannot keep up with the pace in my races

RayCun · 16-11-2012 11:01pm

suckler man wrote: »

i am 15 years old,and am running 5 days a week came 11 th in the munsters u16 and u17,my best run to date is 10th in the all irelands,i was just wondering how to improve my pace because i cannot keep up with the pace in my races

You need to talk to your club coach. You'll get better advice from someone who knows your training history, has watched you run and race, and can see your strengths and weaknesses. Without knowing all that, we can only give generic advice and that isn't going to be so useful.

Dundalk · 07-01-2013 9:12pm

Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?

drquirky · 07-01-2013 9:55pm

Jump in your car and clock it? Before garmin I used to drive my routes and knew how long each one was- also doing workouts on tracks negates your problem in this regard

Patrick_K · 08-01-2013 10:50am

Dundalk wrote: »

Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?

This is handy for measuring a route you run on too - http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/

RunningKing · 09-01-2013 9:48am

Dundalk wrote: »

Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?

Or use a website like http://www.mapmyrun.com/ or http://www.walkjogrun.net/ and you can make your own routes. Its fairly intuitive once you start using it.

I used the latter for my 1st marathon training and have a whole lot of different routes for different milage. you can make an account (free) and it saves your routes.

jfh · 09-01-2013 11:04am

has anyone here actually followed this plan to success? tempted, far easier than the Daniels plan.(easier to follow) i've did the last workout & it nearly killed me

pconn062 · 10-01-2013 8:31pm

jfh wrote: »

has anyone here actually followed this plan to success? tempted, far easier than the Daniels plan.(easier to follow) i've did the last workout & it nearly killed me

I did the majority of this plan early last year leading up to the K club 10k, I did the first three workouts, never got the last one done, 3x2 mile, due to running out of time but I found it very good. The pace I averaged during the 2x2 mile/2x1 mile was nearly the exact same pace I averaged during the race to get under 40 minutes for the first time. Tough sessions but I found the recovery time to be adequate to get it done. I filled in the rest of the sessions with 400/800m repeats mostly and the odd tempo run.

Itziger · 10-01-2013 10:00pm

I'm nine weeks out from a 10k and today started the track side of things. (10k would be my shortest race of the year and I only do one or two of em). Didn't feel I was ready for the 6x1 mile so did 6x 1k instead. Felt ok actually. Maybe next week I'll try the mile distance. If, I say IF I do the plan, I'll report back.

Planned pace is 3:45min per km btw. I wonder does this workout suit all levels of ability..... Find out soon enough I guess.

Oooops, should add that the recovery was 2 mins as opposed to 3 cos of the shorter distance. Really hope to do the full program as outlined in first post. Training on my own but I do have access to a track right near work.

Itziger · 21-01-2013 9:37pm

Snow and freezing temperatures are not helping here. Missed last week's session, track hadn't been cleared and we've had a fair bit of snow since so can't see this week happening.

Plan B.

Itziger · 30-01-2013 8:26pm

Well finally got to try the 6x1 mile workout. Went really well I must say - all on or under the planned 3.45km pace. Will try the rest of em now even though I'm slightly behind time. I'm still trying to imagine that last one. As I've done so few (1!!) 5k races, the last session calls for back to back 5k pbs. That should be a laugh.

Itziger · 08-02-2013 5:32pm

Ok, I'm updating this as a mini log of the key sessions. It might help future 10k runners. Got the second of the 'key' sessions in. 1x2mile followed by 4x1mile. Again at 3.45km pace and again I was quite happy with how it went. Even taking the Garmin effect into account, the various sections were more or less spot on.

I did notice that the single mile reps seemed easier after doing a 2 mile first. I think the next is 2x2 mile and 2x1 mile. Might try this back in Cork next week. You're really supposed to be doing the sessions every two weeks but the weather robbed me of some time. I have yet to do any of the faster/shorter reps mentioned. Might try a couple in the last three weeks before target in March.

Itziger · 16-02-2013 11:52am

Did the 2x2 mile followed by 2x1 mile session on UCC track (in absolutely super shape, was this track relaid recently?) Felt ok. The second of the 2 milers was, unsurprisingly, the toughest but I just managed to hold pace.

As for the rest period, I took 4 minutes instead of 5 between the 2 milers. I noticed at the start of this thread someone said they had changed the time from 3 - really tough - to 5 minutes. I thought the 5 was a little generous, hence the 4 as a compromise. 3 weeks to target race. I'll hopefully get one of the alternate week sessions in soon. I was thinking of the 200mts by 20 say. Just to do sub 10k pace and then with a week and a half to go, have a lash off the 3x2 mile workout.

Itziger · 28-02-2013 5:23pm

So, it looks like I'm talking to myself here, but that's ok. It may prove useful or helpful for someone in the future. Today I did the 'ultimate' 10k workout. Hope it's as good as its word. Went well enough even if the first 2 miler was a bit quick and I was suffering a bit by the 3rd.

The pace went as follows (all Garmin times so I'd always add on 2 or 3 secs per kilometer): 3:37, 3:42, 3:45. Took 4 minute jog/rest between.

For those who aren't familiar with the plan, it called for 3x2 miles. 10 days to target race, not much left to do now.

Krusty_Clown · 28-02-2013 6:28pm

Itziger wrote: »

So, it looks like I'm talking to myself here, but that's ok. It may prove useful or helpful for someone in the future. Today I did the 'ultimate' 10k workout. Hope it's as good as its word. Went well enough even if the first 2 miler was a bit quick and I was suffering a bit by the 3rd.

The pace went as follows (all Garmin times so I'd always add on 2 or 3 secs per kilometer): 3:37, 3:42, 3:45. Took 4 minute jog/rest between.

For those who aren't familiar with the plan, it called for 3x2 miles. 10 days to target race, not much left to do now.

Looking forward to the result, with baited breath.

Not many have managed to complete all of the training sessions, but still went on to secure solid 10k times, so you should be optimistic. What's the target race?

Itziger · 28-02-2013 7:26pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Looking forward to the result, with baited breath. Not many have managed to complete all of the training sessions, but still went on to secure solid 10k times, so you should be optimistic. What's the target race?

It's the famous Postlaf, Krusty. A fine race to be fair. Big crowd and as I hope to knock a good chunk off the pb, I must try to get up further at the start this year.

http://postlaf.rtl.lu

wrstan · 01-03-2013 1:33pm

Itziger wrote: »

So, it looks like I'm talking to myself here, but that's ok. It may prove useful or helpful for someone in the future. Today I did the 'ultimate' 10k workout. Hope it's as good as its word. Went well enough even if the first 2 miler was a bit quick and I was suffering a bit by the 3rd.

The pace went as follows (all Garmin times so I'd always add on 2 or 3 secs per kilometer): 3:37, 3:42, 3:45. Took 4 minute jog/rest between.

For those who aren't familiar with the plan, it called for 3x2 miles. 10 days to target race, not much left to do now.

It may feel like you're talking to yourself, but I reckon there's a good few following the conversation

, seriously thanks for keeping us updated. It'll be great to see how you get on, like Krusty said, with those splits you should be very confident of hitting your target. Are you targetting sub 37:30?

Itziger · 01-03-2013 1:48pm

wrstan wrote: »

It may feel like you're talking to yourself, but I reckon there's a good few following the conversation , seriously thanks for keeping us updated. It'll be great to see how you get on, like Krusty said, with those splits you should be very confident of hitting your target. Are you targetting sub 37:30?

Well the pb is 38.26 and I'm not getting that much younger (whatever Belcarra might say) so I'd be chuffed with 37:30. Short hill at km 7 is a bit of a bastard but fingers crossed. It'll be my 4th time running this and the previous efforts were 43.00, 39:40 and the pb above.

First time doing this plan though.

RunningKing · 06-03-2013 1:37pm

Itziger, on the plan you are doing, is it just 1 session per week with a tempo run or do you do 2 sessions per week and a tempo??

Currently on a 10k plan - I'm trying to do a longer interval (say 5x1m or 2x800/1200) and a speed session such as 12x400 or 8x2mins.
My 5k time has reduced from 19:28 in Dec to 18:18 (unofficial 'fun run' time) doing this.

I have not done the 2 sessions every week - all depend's as to how I'm feeling or if I'm racing that wee.
Also - the next few weeks brings in longer tempo runs, so these may replace one of the sessions.

Part of me is worried about doing too much (2 sessions) (as well as 5 Aside) - so just looking for advice/reassurance??

Itziger · 06-03-2013 8:08pm

RunningKing wrote: »

Itziger, on the plan you are doing, is it just 1 session per week with a tempo run or do you do 2 sessions per week and a tempo??

Currently on a 10k plan - I'm trying to do a longer interval (say 5x1m or 2x800/1200) and a speed session such as 12x400 or 8x2mins.
My 5k time has reduced from 19:28 in Dec to 18:18 (unofficial 'fun run' time) doing this.

I have not done the 2 sessions every week - all depend's as to how I'm feeling or if I'm racing that wee.
Also - the next few weeks brings in longer tempo runs, so these may replace one of the sessions.

Part of me is worried about doing too much (2 sessions) (as well as 5 Aside) - so just looking for advice/reassurance??

RK, I'm not really the man to ask. I've only been doing the key sessions in that plan. The weather here has been a bit of a pain and I've not been able to train that well. I've been doing 4 days a week and that includes one or two trail sessions. These have been tough and I'm hoping will stand me on the day but apart from the intervals I haven't done any fancy stuff. I'd say a few tempo runs would be perfect as a second fast piece of work a week. Again, I only really did one more or less tempo run.

With 4 days to go I'm nursing a slight calf strain but it's on the mend and I'm looking forward to the target race. I only usually do 1 10k a year so here's hoping it goes well!

Just looking at your post again. For me, yeah, I'd be worried that 2 track plus a tempo would be too much but your body might be able to take that. At 47 I wouldn't fancy it. In fact I think the calf problem was caused by doing a snappy 8k followed by the tough 3x2 mile two days later. Good luck anyway and do report back.

Marthastew · 06-03-2013 11:07pm

Itziger wrote: »

With 4 days to go I'm nursing a slight calf strain but it's on the mend and I'm looking forward to the target race. I only usually do 1 10k a year so here's hoping it goes well!
.

Hope the calf clears up, very best of luck with the race, looking forward to hearing all about it

Itziger · 07-03-2013 9:21pm

Marthastew wrote: »

Hope the calf clears up, very best of luck with the race, looking forward to hearing all about it

Thanks Martha. Not exactly full of confidence I must say. Went for a light run tonight and the bloody thing got sore after about 4 k. Had been fine at start and actually went quite suddenly. I was very close to home though and the minute I felt it, I stopped and turned around. I have 3 nights now to be nice to it. Mrs Itz is going to have to suffer in silence. Have a bit of Star Balm (same as Tiger basically) on it and I'm just hoping it doesn't get too sore on the day.

Other than the calf I just felt like a sack of spuds tonight. Jeez, let's hope it's one of those cases where you just turn it around on race day. I'd been feeling great up to a week ago. I'd genuinely like to be able report back here having given it a real go whether I get the target time or not. I've never really flunked a race before (unless you count my first and second crampy marathons)

The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

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