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The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,368 ✭✭✭✭ Krusty_Clown


    RayCun wrote: »
    We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
    5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
    1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
    2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
    as prep for Raheny
    Looks good, but I would have thought that the last session should be:
    1 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile, 1 x 2 mile at pace (January)
    to better emulate the race environment, where you expect the end of the race to be harder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    Looks good, but I would have thought that the last session should be:
    1 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile, 1 x 2 mile at pace (January)
    to better emulate the race environment, where you expect the end of the race to be harder.

    Good idea


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭ NiallG4


    RayCun wrote: »
    We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
    5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
    1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
    2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
    as prep for Raheny
    `
    What recovery are you proposing


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    NiallG4 wrote: »
    `
    What recovery are you proposing

    as in the OP - 3 to 4 minutes recovery jog between the mile repeats, 5 minutes after the 2 miles


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ MC21


    great plan. Slightly scared. on a 5k training plan at the moment - maybe this next !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭ pconn062


    RayCun wrote: »
    as in the OP - 3 to 4 minutes recovery jog between the mile repeats, 5 minutes after the 2 miles

    I've done the 10k sessions in the McMillan plan and I actually found the recovery for the sessions a bit too long, I know 5 mile pace will be a touch quicker and harder but I would try and cut it down a touch, 2-3 minutes between the mile and 4 minutes max between the 2 mile sets. My coach would always advocate the shortest recoveries you can mange to best simulate race pace discomfort.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭ Royal Legend


    great info


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭✭✭ seanie_m


    RayCun wrote: »
    We've just been discussing this in the club actually, and are planning to go with
    5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace (November)
    1 x 2 mile, 3 x 1 mile at pace (December)
    2 x 2 mile, 1 x 1 mile at pace (January)
    as prep for Raheny


    Are you aiming for any specific pace during the recovery jogs between sets? And how many days a week will you perform this routine? I'm aiming to go 31:xx in Raheny, not too sure how that will go but in the past week I've run three 5kms sub-20 (19:13, 19:31, 19:52). Still being a relative novice in terms of running, can I assume that my times are getting progressively slower due to lack of proper recovery between going for 'hard' runs? A 42minute 10km thrown in there during the week too...
    God reading that it does sound like I'm taking too much on myself too soon. But then again when you have caught the bug to go out for a run, its hard to discipline yourself to take the night off/take a slower pace. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    In between sets its just jog recovery. As slow as you can, you just want to keep the legs moving so they don't stiffen up between the runs.
    We're doing this once a month.
    You're getting slower in your 5ks because you're getting tired. There's really no point in running 3 hard 5ks (and a hard 10k!) in a week.
    How many days a week can you train?


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭✭✭ seanie_m


    RayCun wrote: »
    In between sets its just jog recovery. As slow as you can, you just want to keep the legs moving so they don't stiffen up between the runs.
    We're doing this once a month.
    You're getting slower in your 5ks because you're getting tired. There's really no point in running 3 hard 5ks (and a hard 10k!) in a week.
    How many days a week can you train?


    Ah I see! Its evidently a much tougher run than I had given it credit for. I'll spread out the harder runs from now on. Would you recommend keeping it at just one per week? I'd be well able to train 4 or 5 days a week until January, so had been considering getting in one session per week of doing 400m intervals as some speed-work. Again I know these will be tough sessions, I already scuppered my DCM training by getting ITBS back in August, but do you think they'd be of benefit? Thanks Ray


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    On 4/5 days a week, I'd stick with one hard session, one long run, and three easy runs each week. The McMillan workout could be the hard session, or 10/12 x 400, 6 x 800, 2 x 20 minute tempo, fartlek, hill sprints, things like that. Your long run could be about 90 minutes running. Everything else - easy pace, under an hour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,368 ✭✭✭✭ Krusty_Clown


    RayCun wrote: »
    We're doing this once a month.
    I presume you mean that you're doing one of these McMillan adjusted 5 mile sessions per month. If so, I have to ask, is that really advisable? The (original) plan was designed to be completed over an 8 week period, with one of these sessions every other week. If you complete one session and the gap to the next is four weeks (instead of two weeks), then any training benefit will largely have dwindled away. The plan is designed as a set of building blocks, with each subsequent session building on the previous session, until your crescendo (race).

    I'm sure you will be doing other types of training in the intervening period between your planned sessions, but the chances are that you will find each subsequent McMillan training session increasingly difficult, as you have made the gap from the previous session too great. Thoughts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    It's a good point.
    I suppose there were a few reasons for the (hastily put-together :) ) plan to look like this -
    the two weeks at the end of December are a wash, there won't be any club sessions then
    we have a regular hill session on Stocking Lane that everyone likes (partly because it's hard, partly because everyone gets to train together, which is hard in winter) and I wanted to keep that in regularly
    and mainly, I wanted to have a race-focused session early in the plan. 5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace -> Raheny 5

    If the next block of training is directed towards the GIR/national 10k we'll think about keeping to the 8 week plan (and there'll be an extra session in the mix). For this block, the McMillan sessions will partly be training, partly be progress checks. People are going to be learning their pace in these sessions as well as improving on that pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭✭✭ seanie_m


    RayCun wrote: »
    On 4/5 days a week, I'd stick with one hard session, one long run, and three easy runs each week. The McMillan workout could be the hard session, or 10/12 x 400, 6 x 800, 2 x 20 minute tempo, fartlek, hill sprints, things like that. Your long run could be about 90 minutes running. Everything else - easy pace, under an hour.

    Thanks for the help Ray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,368 ✭✭✭✭ Krusty_Clown


    RayCun wrote: »
    It's a good point.
    I suppose there were a few reasons for the (hastily put-together :) ) plan to look like this -
    the two weeks at the end of December are a wash, there won't be any club sessions then
    we have a regular hill session on Stocking Lane that everyone likes (partly because it's hard, partly because everyone gets to train together, which is hard in winter) and I wanted to keep that in regularly
    and mainly, I wanted to have a race-focused session early in the plan. 5 x 1 mile at 5 mile pace -> Raheny 5

    If the next block of training is directed towards the GIR/national 10k we'll think about keeping to the 8 week plan (and there'll be an extra session in the mix). For this block, the McMillan sessions will partly be training, partly be progress checks. People are going to be learning their pace in these sessions as well as improving on that pace.
    I guess if you treat them as individual workouts, and don't have the same level of expectations as if you had run them all in the described sequence. The later workouts could be incredibly tough though (and have an impact on confidence).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    That last session is tough any way you build up to it :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ suckler man


    shels4ever wrote: »
    Got this in an email today thoguh someone might find it useful.

    Full article here

    im a 15 year old runner but need to improve my pace in my races,what training would i need to build up my pace

    thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    What training are you doing now? What races are you doing?
    Have you been running for 15 years, or are you 15 years old?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ suckler man


    RayCun wrote: »
    What training are you doing now? What races are you doing?
    Have you been running for 15 years, or are you 15 years old?

    i am 15 years old,and am running 5 days a week came 11 th in the munsters u16 and u17,my best run to date is 10th in the all irelands,i was just wondering how to improve my pace because i cannot keep up with the pace in my races


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    i am 15 years old,and am running 5 days a week came 11 th in the munsters u16 and u17,my best run to date is 10th in the all irelands,i was just wondering how to improve my pace because i cannot keep up with the pace in my races

    You need to talk to your club coach. You'll get better advice from someone who knows your training history, has watched you run and race, and can see your strengths and weaknesses. Without knowing all that, we can only give generic advice and that isn't going to be so useful.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ Dundalk


    Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 drquirky


    Jump in your car and clock it? Before garmin I used to drive my routes and knew how long each one was- also doing workouts on tracks negates your problem in this regard


  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭ Patrick_K


    Dundalk wrote: »
    Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?

    This is handy for measuring a route you run on too - http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 RunningKing


    Dundalk wrote: »
    Without trying to sound very stupid, if I dont have a garmin how can I tell when I have run a mile?

    Or use a website like http://www.mapmyrun.com/ or http://www.walkjogrun.net/ and you can make your own routes. Its fairly intuitive once you start using it.

    I used the latter for my 1st marathon training and have a whole lot of different routes for different milage. you can make an account (free) and it saves your routes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ jfh


    has anyone here actually followed this plan to success? tempted, far easier than the Daniels plan.(easier to follow) i've did the last workout & it nearly killed me


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭ pconn062


    jfh wrote: »
    has anyone here actually followed this plan to success? tempted, far easier than the Daniels plan.(easier to follow) i've did the last workout & it nearly killed me

    I did the majority of this plan early last year leading up to the K club 10k, I did the first three workouts, never got the last one done, 3x2 mile, due to running out of time but I found it very good. The pace I averaged during the 2x2 mile/2x1 mile was nearly the exact same pace I averaged during the race to get under 40 minutes for the first time. Tough sessions but I found the recovery time to be adequate to get it done. I filled in the rest of the sessions with 400/800m repeats mostly and the odd tempo run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭ Itziger


    I'm nine weeks out from a 10k and today started the track side of things. (10k would be my shortest race of the year and I only do one or two of em). Didn't feel I was ready for the 6x1 mile so did 6x 1k instead. Felt ok actually. Maybe next week I'll try the mile distance. If, I say IF I do the plan, I'll report back.

    Planned pace is 3:45min per km btw. I wonder does this workout suit all levels of ability..... Find out soon enough I guess.

    Oooops, should add that the recovery was 2 mins as opposed to 3 cos of the shorter distance. Really hope to do the full program as outlined in first post. Training on my own but I do have access to a track right near work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭ Itziger


    Snow and freezing temperatures are not helping here. Missed last week's session, track hadn't been cleared and we've had a fair bit of snow since so can't see this week happening.

    Plan B.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭ Itziger


    Well finally got to try the 6x1 mile workout. Went really well I must say - all on or under the planned 3.45km pace. Will try the rest of em now even though I'm slightly behind time. I'm still trying to imagine that last one. As I've done so few (1!!) 5k races, the last session calls for back to back 5k pbs. That should be a laugh.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭ Itziger


    Ok, I'm updating this as a mini log of the key sessions. It might help future 10k runners. Got the second of the 'key' sessions in. 1x2mile followed by 4x1mile. Again at 3.45km pace and again I was quite happy with how it went. Even taking the Garmin effect into account, the various sections were more or less spot on.

    I did notice that the single mile reps seemed easier after doing a 2 mile first. I think the next is 2x2 mile and 2x1 mile. Might try this back in Cork next week. You're really supposed to be doing the sessions every two weeks but the weather robbed me of some time. I have yet to do any of the faster/shorter reps mentioned. Might try a couple in the last three weeks before target in March.


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