Voter suppression and fraud thread

[-0-] · 06-11-2012 02:23AM

Add this one to the list please: http://www.salon.com/2012/11/05/ohio_republicans_sneak_risky_software_onto_voting_machines/

Mjollnir · 06-11-2012 02:25AM

Gandhi wrote: »

A. Yes, and then Eric Holder dropped the case. Exactly like I said. Why would a GOP admin pursue a voter intimidation case after they had lost the election? It would just look like sour grapes.

Because it was groundless and obviously w/out merit. Hence the downgrade before Obama even came in.

B. No, nobody filed an official complaint that they were intimidated from voting. Witnesses said that they saw people leave without voting after being shouted at by the Black Panthers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/13/commission.shouting/

So members of a known hate group, in uniform, with a nightstick shouting at voters outside a polling place is a "tired old pablum", but the candidates being listed in an order that you don't like on a sample ballot makes you say "There's nothing these clowns won't stoop to"?

Again, since this seems difficult for you: there is zero evidence, nada, that anyone was intimidated into not voting. Shouting amounts to nothing.

And what cons in OH have been stooping to has been a myriad of various little things (and some not so little) adding up to a very obvious and concerted effort to suppress democratic votes.

southsiderosie · 06-11-2012 02:29AM

Gandhi wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that the Black Panthers were standing outside a polling place in a gentrifying neighborhood in Philly wielding nightsticks during the 2008 election? And they say they may be back this year, seeing as Eric Holder dropped the case against them last time ( http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121105_Will_New_Black_Panthers_be_back_this_year_.html )?

Is it a coincidence that any party will hold voter-registration drives at events and locations that are more likely to have people that will vote for that party?

Is it a coincidence that any party will try to get ballot questions on about some emotional but meaningless issue that will motivate their own supporters to get out and vote? Is it a coincidence that the authors will always phrase ballot questions so that the answer "yes" is the one they want, knowing that most people who do not understand the question will mindlessly tick "yes"?

Are the billboards partisan? Yeah, just like everything else that happens around election time.

Are the billboards voter suppression or fraud? Not even close. They are neither untrue nor confusing.

The fact that individual groups are trying to suppress key voting consistencies is not a surprise. The bigger problem here is that government officials in Ohio and Florida are using the power of the state to deliberately try to suppress voting in minority communities.

Mjollnir · 06-11-2012 02:31AM

nagilum2 wrote: »

Both sides will do everything they can to capture the win, including illegalities they think they can get away with. The stakes are too high and human nature is what it is. Pretending that it's limited to only the side you dislike is ridiculous and obvious homerism.

Besides, as far as I know only the democrats have actually had someone convicted and sent to prison for voter fraud very recently:
http://times247.com/articles/miss-naacp-exec-gets-5-years-for-voter-fraud

Or had a member of his campaign who happens to be his son resign after getting caught providing advice on how to get away with election fraud: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/jim-morans-son-resigns-campaign-amid-video-furor/2012/10/24/95ea4a56-1e23-11e2-b647-bb1668e64058_story.html

Going way back in history, most historians accept that Mayor Daley in Chicago was an election cheat, and there are still questions about whether he delivered Illinois to Kennedy via nefarious means: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-09-26-jfk-chicago-politics_N.htm

So it's not like this stuff isn't without at least *some* historical merit.

The republicans are rife with it.

Dig in: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9467

A Republican insider now admits that their concerns about voter fraud are nonsense:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/steve_schmidt_voter_fraud_mythology.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

And some more BS from a "True the Vote" whackjob

http://crooksandliars.com/mugsy/true-vote-virtually-nonexistent-voter-fraud-

Manic Moran · 06-11-2012 02:31AM

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Obama camp reporting a GOP scam offering people the chance to vote on their Ipad.

That sort of crap needs to be punished by ridiculously long prison sentences, on the order of those given out for treason.

That said, anyone daft enough to fall for it....

NTM

nagilum2 · 06-11-2012 02:37AM

Mjollnir wrote: »

The republicans are rife with it.

Dig in: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9467

A Republican insider now admits that their concerns about voter fraud are nonsense:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/steve_schmidt_voter_fraud_mythology.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

And some more BS from a "True the Vote" whackjob

http://crooksandliars.com/mugsy/true-vote-virtually-nonexistent-voter-fraud-

I have no doubt. What I said was, both sides are rotten and both sides engage in nefarious activity. Reading these boards, though, sometimes you'd think the republicans and democrats are house harkonnen and house atreides, respectively.

southsiderosie · 06-11-2012 04:42AM

nagilum2 wrote: »

I have no doubt. What I said was, both sides are rotten and both sides engage in nefarious activity. Reading these boards, though, sometimes you'd think the republicans and democrats are house harkonnen and house atreides, respectively.

False equivalence. Please point out in this election cycle where Dem officials are seeking to systematically use their power as elected officials to change state voting procedures in order to suppress Republican turnout.

nagilum2 · 06-11-2012 04:51AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

False equivalence. Please point out in this election cycle where Dem officials are seeking to systematically use their power as elected officials to change state voting procedures in order to suppress Republican turnout.

The title of the thread is voter suppression and fraud, not just voter suppression.
I have shown fraud examples.

Further, I think that it's simply not logical to believe that only one side is engaged in these types of activities to tilt the playing field to their side.

southsiderosie · 06-11-2012 05:59AM

nagilum2 wrote: »

The title of the thread is voter suppression and fraud, not just voter suppression.
I have shown fraud examples.

Yes I know - and I responded by saying that I think abusing your position as an elected official and using the power of the state to suppress voting is a more serious problem than random acts of fraud by partisan zealots.

nagilum2 wrote: »

Further, I think that it's simply not logical to believe that only one side is engaged in these types of activities to tilt the playing field to their side.

So show us some evidence that Democrat election officials are seeking to systematically reduce turnout in Republican areas.

Manic Moran · 06-11-2012 06:49AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

So show us some evidence that Democrat election officials are seeking to systematically reduce turnout in Republican areas.

Aren't they usually polite enough in States like Virginia and Florida to wait until the polls close, and then descend upon the absentee ballots which tend to be conservative due to the large military contingent?

The DoD, under Panetta's watch, hasn't been particularly emphatic about conducting its obligations under the MOVE act, either. A review about six weeks ago indicated that half of the voter assistance offices which were supposed to be open in fact were not reachable. In 2010, at least, the only States which received date waivers for absentee votes were ones that voted heavily Democrat in 2008 (all Republican States were denied). In fairness to them, though, this year it seems that only one State even requested a waiver (New York), and that was denied.

Of course, I am not actually that paranoid, and I don't think the Democratic administration are 'out to suppress' the military vote, and I'm not one for childish 'he did it, she did it too' banter. Not least, I've not gone looking for any such evidence. Be it by 'suppressing' votes of the opposition, or 'increasing' one's own vote by whatever means necessary, I'm quite confident that both sides will do consciously whatever they think they can legally get away with, an accidently occasionally do something that they didn't intend to which causes a problem as well, because they're just human.

NTM

joseph brand · 06-11-2012 11:09AM

Rachel Maddow reports on voter suppression. GOP insists elections aren't won by majority voting.

I thought it was every citizens duty to be informed and to use their right to vote.

Duck Soup · 06-11-2012 12:59PM

nagilum2 wrote: »

The title of the thread is voter suppression and fraud, not just voter suppression.
I have shown fraud examples.

Further, I think that it's simply not logical to believe that only one side is engaged in these types of activities to tilt the playing field to their side.

It's absolutely logical to suppose that one side is involved in systematic - and in some cases, official - voter suppression efforts and not the other.

The reason is simple. The greater the turnout, the more it benefits Democrats; the lower the turnout, the more it benefits Republicans.

The Republican vote is more solid, the Democrat vote softer. Democrat voters are more likely to be dissuaded or sidetracked from voting.

So the Democrats, knowing this, pour their energies into the Get Out The Vote ground game. The Republicans, knowing this, look to curtail early voting, increase ID requirements, increase the length of queues on election day(s) etc., etc., etc.

It's nothing if not logical.

nagilum2 · 06-11-2012 01:16PM

Duck Soup wrote: »

It's absolutely logical to suppose that one side is involved in systematic - and in some cases, official - voter suppression efforts and not the other.

The reason is simple. The greater the turnout, the more it benefits Democrats; the lower the turnout, the more it benefits Republicans.

The Republican vote is more solid, the Democrat vote softer. Democrat voters are more likely to be dissuaded or sidetracked from voting.

So the Democrats, knowing this, pour their energies into the Get Out The Vote ground game. The Republicans, knowing this, look to curtail early voting, increase ID requirements, increase the length of queues on election day(s) etc., etc., etc.

It's nothing if not logical.

So then you admit it makes sense that the Republicans attempt to cheat by trying to restrict votes and the Democrats try to cheat by artificially inflating the vote.

And Rosie, I do see these things as absolutely mathematically equivalent. Adding a vote on one side has the same effect as subtracting it from another.

Mjollnir · 06-11-2012 02:17PM

nagilum2 wrote: »

So then you admit it makes sense that the Republicans attempt to cheat by trying to restrict votes and the Democrats try to cheat by artificially inflating the vote.

And Rosie, I do see these things as absolutely mathematically equivalent. Adding a vote on one side has the same effect as subtracting it from another.

Where is there data that indicates Democrats have systemically tried to cheat by 'artificially inflating the vote'?

06-11-2012 02:24PM

Higher wrote: »

Come on Manic Moran, these signs are only in poor, black areas where the illiteracy rate is through the roof. They are clearly an attempt to prevent poor, black Americans from voting. They are utterly absent in white areas and rich areas.

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Obama camp reporting a GOP scam offering people the chance to vote on their Ipad.

So it's poor, illiterate, iPad-owning minorities the GOP are targetting?

southsiderosie · 06-11-2012 04:28PM

nagilum2 wrote: »

So then you admit it makes sense that the Republicans attempt to cheat by trying to restrict votes and the Democrats try to cheat by artificially inflating the vote.

And Rosie, I do see these things as absolutely mathematically equivalent. Adding a vote on one side has the same effect as subtracting it from another.

I think you are missing my point. My concern is not the math, my concern is that it is a bigger problem when people use the power of the state to engage in voter suppression than when they act the maggot. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Amerika · 06-11-2012 04:43PM

Gotta love Philadelphia

Thanks to DOJ Holder throwing out charges from the 2008 incident, the Black Panthers are back at the polling stations. Intimidation remains, but luckily they left their military batons at home this time around.
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2012/11/06/Report-Obama-Attempts-to-Steal-Philly-Black-Panthers-In-Repub-Poll-Workers-out

And Court-appointed Republican poll inspectors are being forcibly removed from voting stations in some Philadelphia wards… and replaced by Democratic inspectors thanks to leftist voting chief judges.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/philly-gop-poll-inspectors-being-ousted-for-dems/article/2512714#.UJkm9sXA-4d

Luckily there remains at least one sane judge there.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/

[-0-] · 06-11-2012 04:47PM

And here it is... proof of voter machine fraud.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 06-11-2012 04:49PM

rofl

if you think the republicans are going to commit fraud on that scale at least give them the credit to think they'll know to do it in the background rather than having a big green tick show up beside romneys name

Joseph · 06-11-2012 05:45PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/12q6wu/2012_voting_machine_altering_votes/

Overheal · 06-11-2012 05:45PM

http://gizmodo.com/5958105/this-voting-machine-wont-let-you-vote-for-obama

seen as well.

FootShooter · 06-11-2012 05:51PM

Thread from reddit.com where the fella that shot the "2012 voting machines altering votes" video comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/12q6wu/2012_voting_machine_altering_votes/

Also, the tech behind the Ohio election lawsuit made a thread on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/12prub/im_the_tech_behind_the_election_lawsuit_filed_in/

Manic Moran · 06-11-2012 05:54PM

Looks like it could simply be a calibration error on the touchscreen. Certainly the responsibility of the local elections division, not necessarily malicious. As Caesar points out, they'd do a slightly more subtle thing if they wanted to get away with it.

Elsewhere... Battencourt-Cabana:
Two precincts merged to form one polling station, voters are told in their registration cards to go to an address which is in a gated community, they are also told to go to a specific gate. To get onto the community's grounds, pull up to the guard shack, explain to the guard where you're going, and they raise the barrier, and drive for the next mile. Drive right past the polling station as there is no sign visible from the road saying that that little parking lot is where the polling station is.

Amerika · 06-11-2012 06:03PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think you are missing my point. My concern is not the math, my concern is that it is a bigger problem when people use the power of the state to engage in voter suppression than when they act the maggot. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Yeah, and local! One has to question why the Democrats in Philadelphia are working so hard to stop appointed officials from monitoring this election!　
http://www.pagop.org/2012/11/pa-gop-obama-supporters-muscle-out-election-inspectors-but-gop-wins-first-and-second-challenge-to-seat-election-workers/

Ozymandius2011 · 06-11-2012 08:17PM

The PA vote-flipping machine I showed you the video of has been removed from the polling-station. Story confirmed. It wasn't a hoax it was real.

joseph brand · 06-11-2012 08:31PM

Oregon election worker fired for altering ballots to Republican straight ticket

Contacted by Willamette Week, Swenson tearfully insisted that it was “only the two” ballots that had been altered.

The GOP were right. Voter fraud IS an issue. How did they know? Cos it was/is them. 'Only two' me boll*x.

joseph brand · 06-11-2012 08:42PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Looks like it could simply be a calibration error on the touchscreen. Certainly the responsibility of the local elections division, not necessarily malicious. As Caesar points out, they'd do a slightly more subtle thing if they wanted to get away with it.

Funny how it chose Mitt and not Jill or Gary.

In case you're wondering, I have a tin foil Stetson.

Higher · 06-11-2012 08:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So it's poor, illiterate, iPad-owning minorities the GOP are targetting?

Poor and young, yes.

The republicans are really fighting dirty. They need this election more than ever for 2 reasons:
(1) If they don't win the party is on its last knees because America is changing. America is becoming more diverse and more disillusioned with one sided ruling
and
(2) No matter who wins, 12 million jobs are forecasted to be created in the next 4 years. If the Democrats win, and this happens under Obama, then the Republicans will be buried for years. However if the repubs win then the party will be considered the saviour and all will be forgotten about the Bush years and financial crash.

Fr Tod Umptious · 06-11-2012 09:10PM

joseph brand wrote: »

Funny how it chose Mitt and not Jill or Gary.

In case you're wondering, I have a tin foil Stetson.

Its a screen calibration problem as someone said.
If the voter selected a fraction of an inch further down they would probably select Obama, but that important part had been edited out cost it does not foot the narrative

Amerika · 06-11-2012 09:12PM

Some pics for your viewing pleasure from today's voting...

A Philadelphia, PA Polling station.

One from a Tallahassee, FL voting station.
566043_10102421131125663_1677182793_n.jpg?oh=c350535dc7d74219c74a6e7eea5d4ae6&oe=509B06EE&__gda__=1352446182_ed9fc1ef35edc9e686451a65cf259431

566043_10102421131125663_1677182793_n.jpg?oh=c350535dc7d74219c74a6e7eea5d4ae6&oe=509B06EE&__gda__=1352446182_ed9fc1ef35edc9e686451a65cf259431

An election judge in Chicago with his Obama garb.
obamahat.preview.jpg

Voter suppression and fraud thread

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