Prison officer killed in suspect dissident ambush

RMD · 02-11-2012 12:06am #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1101/breaking18.html

No group has claimed responsibility but it's looking like it was dissident activity. I'd say it was quite likely the coalition of dissident groups that formed in recent months. I really hope this isn't the start of a new campaign, these mindless idiots realise nothing is going to change without the will of the majority. Hope whoever has done this is brought to justice and locked away to rot.

Death and Taxes · 02-11-2012 8:54am

An absolutley sickening atrocity, certainly looks like it was dissidents (organized crime masking themselves in a political cause), car used had a Dublin reg.

walshb · 02-11-2012 12:59pm

Sickening act. I wonder was he specifically targeted, or was it a case of just get any prison officer?

junder · 02-11-2012 2:22pm

walshb wrote: »

Sickening act. I wonder was he specifically targeted, or was it a case of just get any prison officer?

This prison officer was a Protestant and an orange man, have dissidents just escalated the conflict into a sectarian one? Time will tell. I hope the family's call for no retaliation is respected

woodoo · 02-11-2012 2:37pm

junder wrote: »

This prison officer was a Protestant and an orange man, have dissidents just escalated the conflict into a sectarian one? Time will tell. I hope the family's call for no retaliation is respected

His wife did call for no retaliation. She obviously sees no sense in killing an innocent catholic in response to a killing by a group that doesn't have much support anyway.

junder · 02-11-2012 4:36pm

As somebody who works for the MOD in both a civilian and miltary capacity I will be viewing cars with Irish registrations with suspicion. Which my journey to and from work will be that bit more stressful

Chuck Stone · 02-11-2012 4:57pm

junder wrote: »

As somebody who works for the MOD in both a civilian and miltary capacity I will be viewing cars with Irish registrations with suspicion. Which my journey to and from work will be that bit more stressful

Is there a risk of you being targeted? I'd imagine a ROI reg is not an uncommon sight up north these days so that would be a head wrecker for you.

The vast majority of people signed up to the PP and GFA. What part of 'no more killing' do these gobshites not get?

junder · 02-11-2012 6:06pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Is there a risk of you being targeted? I'd imagine a ROI reg is not an uncommon sight up north these days so that would be a head wrecker for you.

The vast majority of people signed up to the PP and GFA. What part of 'no more killing' do these gobshites not get?

As it happens There and yes they could just as easy have used a car with northern Irish plates but they didn't they used one with Irish plates so natural human nature is going to make me a wary

Terrontress · 02-11-2012 6:49pm

junder wrote: »

As it happens There and yes they could just as easy have used a car with northern Irish plates but they didn't they used one with Irish plates so natural human nature is going to make me a wary

There are dual carriageways right from Dublin to both Thiepval and Palace Barracks. People are already coming up to buy cheap booze and tvs. I'd hazard a guess that petrol could soon be worth going North for.

If you suspect all Southern reg cars then you'll be so busy looking at something which poses no threat that you'll miss any genuine threat.

Chuck Stone · 02-11-2012 6:49pm

junder wrote: »

so natural human nature is going to make me a wary

Understandable.

GRMA · 02-11-2012 9:08pm

junder wrote: »

This prison officer was a Protestant and an orange man, have dissidents just escalated the conflict into a sectarian one? Time will tell. I hope the family's call for no retaliation is respected

Firstly I say I think what happened is disgraceful and should be condemning by everyone, which it has been really including in very strong terms by SF.

But how is it sectarian? He was killed because he was a prison officer who worked in Roe House, the republican landing. He was killed for that, not because he was a protestant. That's obvious I would have thought.

He was killed probably for the same reasons loyalists had when they killed the last PO to die before this man.

Stheno · 02-11-2012 10:01pm

GRMA wrote: »

Firstly I say I think what happened is disgraceful and should be condemning by everyone, which it has been really including in very strong terms by SF.

But how is it sectarian? He was killed because he was a prison officer who worked in Roe House, the republican landing. He was killed for that, not because he was a protestant. That's obvious I would have thought.

He was killed probably for the same reasons loyalists had when they killed the last PO to die before this man.

How do you know exactly why he was killed?

Mr.Micro · 02-11-2012 10:25pm

junder wrote: »

As somebody who works for the MOD in both a civilian and miltary capacity I will be viewing cars with Irish registrations with suspicion. Which my journey to and from work will be that bit more stressful

Nice to see someone so objective and biased on the job. It could have been any car, it just happened to be one from Dublin. These people clearly wanted to stoke up tensions by using a car from the south, it seems to have worked in some people's case.

murphaph · 02-11-2012 10:35pm

GRMA wrote: »

That's obvious I would have thought.

Nothing is obvious with these losers. Who knows what nonsense is running through their feeble minds.

junder · 02-11-2012 11:06pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Nice to see someone so objective and biased on the job. It could have been any car, it just happened to be one from Dublin. These people clearly wanted to stoke up tensions by using a car from the south, it seems to have worked in some people's case.

I said i would be wary, did'nt say i was going to run any car i see with irish plates of the road. perhaps you should try some objectivity yourself

Dubhlinner · 02-11-2012 11:08pm

If some unfortunate Catholic (or Protestant mistaken for one) gets murdered in retaliation to this I wonder will the IRA and their supporters accept they are indirectly responsible for it.

I am very concerned about this because the previous murders were committed on British army and police officers who happened to be RC. Mr Black was not only a Protestant but a member of the OO. With the summer that's in it tensions are gonna be very high

Mr.Micro · 02-11-2012 11:49pm

Dubhlinner wrote: »

If some unfortunate Catholic (or Protestant mistaken for one) gets murdered in retaliation to this I wonder will the IRA and their supporters accept they are indirectly responsible for it.

I am very concerned about this because the previous murders were committed on British army and police officers who happened to be RC. Mr Black was not only a Protestant but a member of the OO. With the summer that's in it tensions are gonna be very high

Summer has long gone, and any responsibility for murders lay at the hands of the individual evil people who carry them out. I do not see the purpose of broadening out blame or culpability to groups or organizations at this stage, as hopefully there will be no escalation or reprisals.

GRMA · 03-11-2012 1:03am

Stheno wrote: »

How do you know exactly why he was killed?

It seems to be the reason offered by numerous journalists. As well as that it is pretty obvious, why else would they have killed him?

junder · 03-11-2012 1:36am

GRMA wrote: »

It seems to be the reason offered by numerous journalists. As well as that it is pretty obvious, why else would they have killed him?

Dissidents main objective is to bring the army back on to the streets, to undermine the concept of 'normality' in Northern Ireland, so far they have failed to achieve this, maybe thier aim is to escalate the conflict by killing a Protestant under the guise of killing a prison officer, in the hope of provoking a reaction from loyalist paramiltarys, in this way they can pretend they have the high moral ground because they will say they only killed him because he was a prison officer

GRMA · 03-11-2012 2:16am

junder wrote: »

Dissidents main objective is to bring the army back on to the streets, to undermine the concept of 'normality' in Northern Ireland, so far they have failed to achieve this, maybe thier aim is to escalate the conflict by killing a Protestant under the guise of killing a prison officer, in the hope of provoking a reaction from loyalist paramiltarys, in this way they can pretend they have the high moral ground because they will say they only killed him because he was a prison officer

This would be the loyalist paramilitaries who brutally murdered prison officers themselves?

Although you give us a good example of the loyalist paranoia. Your theory is nonsense. He was a PO who worked in the republican wing. How many catholics or nationalists work on the republican wing? I'd say its very few.

poeticseraphim · 03-11-2012 2:36am

GRMA wrote: »

This would be the loyalist paramilitaries who brutally murdered prison officers themselves?

Although you give us a good example of the loyalist paranoia. Your theory is nonsense. He was a PO who worked in the republican wing. How many catholics or nationalists work on the republican wing? I'd say its very few.

Are you with SF?

Killing a police officer or prison officer because they are a PO is worse. It shows they have no respect for the law or due process. They are 'COP KILLERS'. They are more dangerous than usual criminals.

As well as that it is pretty obvious, why else would they have killed him?

Sickos like killing people. That is the reason. Even if he had done something terrible (which he did not according to most journalists he was a lovely man and fair in his job) but even if he had....the Killing was in vengeance ....outside of law ....they did it to enjoy it. That is all.

It is the darkest side of human nature. People use politics to justify many things from murder to systematic child rape in different countries. People who act outside the law spread lies and incite people to hatred.

If one has an issue with treatment by the authorities or a policy one has to go down the civilian route.

Only psychopaths take the law into their own hands.

It does not matter if he was killed for being a PO....that makes me fear them more....what if they try to kill Irish authority figures here again? Like Garda Gerry McCabe???

He was killed because he was a police officer doing his job too.

junder · 03-11-2012 3:26am

GRMA wrote: »

This would be the loyalist paramilitaries who brutally murdered prison officers themselves?

Although you give us a good example of the loyalist paranoia. Your theory is nonsense. He was a PO who worked in the republican wing. How many catholics or nationalists work on the republican wing? I'd say its very few.

Hardly paranoia when a member of the loyalist / unionist community has been murdered moreover why turn this thread into a pissing contest about who was worse republican paramilitary or loyalist paramiltarys? Maybe I should use more simplistic language for you. Some bad men killed somebody yesterday day in the hope that it might provoke other bad men into retaliation. Happy now?

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 3:43am

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Are you with SF?

Killing a police officer or prison officer because they are a PO is worse. It shows they have no respect for the law or due process. They are 'COP KILLERS'. They are more dangerous than usual criminals.

Sickos like killing people. That is the reason. Even if he had done something terrible (which he did not according to most journalists he was a lovely man and fair in his job) but even if he had....the Killing was in vengeance ....outside of law ....they did it to enjoy it. That is all.

It is the darkest side of human nature. People use politics to justify many things from murder to systematic child rape in different countries. People who act outside the law spread lies and incite people to hatred.

If one has an issue with treatment by the authorities or a policy one has to go down the civilian route.

Only psychopaths take the law into their own hands.

It does not matter if he was killed for being a PO....that makes me fear them more....what if they try to kill Irish authority figures here again? Like Garda Gerry McCabe???

He was killed because he was a police officer doing his job too.

Oh come on,so someone who murders a police officer is more dangerous than someone who just murders a normal person?

Am I reading this right seriously,talk about sensationalism.

Murder is murder,there is no worst or better form.

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 3:44am

junder wrote: »

Hardly paranoia when a member of the loyalist / unionist community has been murdered moreover why turn this thread into a pissing contest about who was worse republican paramilitary or loyalist paramiltarys? Maybe I should use more simplistic language for you. Some bad men killed somebody yesterday day in the hope that it might provoke other bad men into retaliation. Happy now?

Why would the loyalists automatically jump to this conclusion?

Are they really sitting by waiting for a chance to hit back or something?

junder · 03-11-2012 3:59am

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Why would the loyalists automatically jump to this conclusion?

Are they really sitting by waiting for a chance to hit back or something?

Why wouldn't they jump to this conclusion? It's certinly a conclusion many others in the unionist / loyalist community have come to

The_Mask · 03-11-2012 4:37am

This was a sectarian killing, he was killed not because of where he lived, where he worked, who he socialised with or what hobbies he had... he died because of his RELIGION. Northern Ireland is making a return to the days of the 80s & 90s :-/

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 11:11am

The loyalists didnt need murders by the nationlists to respond to. the narrative that loyalist only existed as a reaction to the IRA campiagn, or protectors of the loyalist community was always lies.
The loyalists were shooting catholics long before the IRA came on the scene in 69

The loyalist also attacked and burned out catholics in reaction to the peaceful and democratic expression of the civil rights movements. The loyalist have always acted in thier usual manner when they considered their position in the 6co to be under threat.

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 11:13am

The_Mask wrote: »

This was a sectarian killing, he was killed not because of where he lived, where he worked, who he socialised with or what hobbies he had... he died because of his RELIGION. Northern Ireland is making a return to the days of the 80s & 90s :-/

And you know this how exactly?seriously opinions like this doesn't help the situation.why are you turning it into a sectarian issue?

It's pretty known now he was murdered because of the situation in maghaberry,stop trying to start a sectarian spat here.

Oh wait Keith is that you surely not?

Son Of A Vidic · 03-11-2012 1:04pm

junder wrote: »

As somebody who works for the MOD in both a civilian and miltary capacity.

Which probably means that you don't.

junder wrote: »

I will be viewing cars with Irish registrations with suspicion.

Such naivety suggests to me that you definitely don't then. I'd be less worried about Southern registered cars and more concerned about the small, but hardcore group of fruitcakes, that seem to be entrenched in parts of Lurgan.

junder · 03-11-2012 1:27pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Which probably means that you don't.

Such naivety suggests to me that you definitely don't then. I'd be less worried about Southern registered cars and more concerned about the small, but hardcore group of fruitcakes, that seem to be entrenched in parts of Lurgan.

You think? Perhaps I should prove it to you, tell you where I work etc? Dead on. you think lurgan is the only dissident hotspot, and you call me naive? There is one quite close to where i work, As I already pointed in a previous post I said wary, ie cautious which does not mean panicking when I see a Irish registration plate.

pablomakaveli · 03-11-2012 2:12pm

junder wrote: »

Why wouldn't they jump to this conclusion? It's certinly a conclusion many others in the unionist / loyalist community have come to

It certainly seems like you want it to be about religion but if it was they could have found a much easier target. Logic dictates that he was targeted because he is a prison officer.

The_Mask · 03-11-2012 3:00pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

And you know this how exactly?seriously opinions like this doesn't help the situation.why are you turning it into a sectarian issue?

It's pretty known now he was murdered because of the situation in maghaberry,stop trying to start a sectarian spat here.

Oh wait Keith is that you surely not?

I know this because it is a FACT that the root cause of the troubles in NI is RELIGION. To be murdered because of ones religion is known as a sectarian killing!
It has been well reported he was a member of the Orange Order.

pablomakaveli · 03-11-2012 3:04pm

The_Mask wrote: »

I know this because it is a FACT that the root cause of the troubles in NI is RELIGION. To be murdered because of ones religion is known as a sectarian killing!

Actually its a lot more complicated than purely religion and viewing the killing as being for purely religious reasons is just lazy given the guy was a prison officer also.

junder · 03-11-2012 3:45pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It certainly seems like you want it to be about religion but if it was they could have found a much easier target. Logic dictates that he was targeted because he is a prison officer.

Seems to me your trying to brush his religious and political identy under the carpet, seems it sits easier if he is stripped of his identity and reduced to merely a prison officer, in much the same way as our brothers, uncles, fathers and friends who were murdered in the past where reduced to being merely soldiers or policemen. No doubt you have heard of six degrees of seperation, well I don't know this prison officer personnly but I do know people who do know him, making him more then just a faceless prison officer

GRMA · 03-11-2012 3:58pm

junder wrote: »

Seems to me your trying to brush his religious and political identy under the carpet, seems it sits easier if he is stripped of his identity and reduced to merely a prison officer, in much the same way as our brothers, uncles, fathers and friends who were murdered in the past where reduced to being merely soldiers or policemen. No doubt you have heard of six degrees of seperation, well I don't know this prison officer personnly but I do know people who do know him, making him more then just a faceless prison officer

Junder do you really think he was killed because he was a protestant? If so, why?

To me its clear he was killed because he was a prison officer who worked in Roe House, as you know there has been a rapidly escalating protest going on now for quite a while within the prison. Is that not the more logical conclusion? If he was a catholic it wouldnt have made any difference they would still have been willing to kill him.

The above doesn't make it ok or less reprehensible that he was killed btw.

It's clear that some loyalists are chomping at the bit to "retaliate" and are looking for any excuse to do so - especially give the summer. Relics clinging to the past.
Interesting how the thread about this on PULSE, which was initially full of posts about how he was a good "christian protestant", a great guy just doing his job etc etc ground to a halt when it was pointed out that the UVF murdered prison officers before.

Happyman42 · 03-11-2012 4:03pm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

dissidents (organized crime masking themselves in a political cause),

This is such a stupid connection to make. Why would 'organised crimminals' want the heat of shooting a prison officer? It's quite clear these people are committed to an ideal and that they have a 'political cause'. Subversives the world over fund themselves by attacking state institutions and engaging in what we call crimminal activity. Ignoring the fact that a new breed of republican agitator is on the rise in a vain attempt to maintain the 'peace' is dangerous and stupid.

The_Mask · 03-11-2012 4:05pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Actually its a lot more complicated than purely religion and viewing the killing as being for purely religious reasons is just lazy given the guy was a prison officer also.

Would the circumstances or your view change if this guy was a taxi driver? No i dont think so. His job as a PO may have caused him to have be singled out

The_Mask · 03-11-2012 4:07pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Actually its a lot more complicated than purely religion and viewing the killing as being for purely religious reasons is just lazy given the guy was a prison officer also.

Would the circumstances or your view change if this guy was a taxi driver? No i dont think so. His job as a PO may have caused him to have been singled out but he wasnt killed purely because of it.

GRMA · 03-11-2012 4:07pm

The_Mask wrote: »

Would the circumstances or your view change if this guy was a taxi driver? No i dont think so. His job as a PO may have caused him to have be singled out

Why would they have shot a taxi man?

They are perfectly happy to kill catholics too, as they showed when they killed those poor PSNI officers.

MatthewWC · 03-11-2012 4:11pm

RIP

Least they've got a few boys in for questioning already and i think one has been charged, not 100% sure though. Think one of them was arrested/questioned about the murder of the army lads in antrim too

The_Mask · 03-11-2012 4:11pm

GRMA wrote: »

Why would they have shot a taxi man?

They are perfectly happy to kill catholics too, as they showed when they killed those poor PSNI officers.

Taxi men are & have been seen as easy targets for both sides through out the troubles

GRMA · 03-11-2012 4:38pm

MatthewWC wrote: »

RIP

Least they've got a few boys in for questioning already and i think one has been charged, not 100% sure though. Think one of them was arrested/questioned about the murder of the army lads in antrim too

He was found innocent over the masereene attack

junder · 03-11-2012 5:30pm

GRMA wrote: »

Junder do you really think he was killed because he was a protestant? If so, why?

To me its clear he was killed because he was a prison officer who worked in Roe House, as you know there has been a rapidly escalating protest going on now for quite a while within the prison. Is that not the more logical conclusion? If he was a catholic it wouldnt have made any difference they would still have been willing to kill him.

The above doesn't make it ok or less reprehensible that he was killed btw.

It's clear that some loyalists are chomping at the bit to "retaliate" and are looking for any excuse to do so - especially give the summer. Relics clinging to the past.
Interesting how the thread about this on PULSE, which was initially full of posts about how he was a good "christian protestant", a great guy just doing his job etc etc ground to a halt when it was pointed out that the UVF murdered prison officers before.

And there are many on that thread who are pointing out the stupidity of those calling for a responce from loyalists paramiltarys,

junder · 03-11-2012 5:34pm

GRMA wrote: »

He was found innocent over the masereene attack

Just because there was not enough evidence to prosecute Duffy does not mean he is innocent

junder · 03-11-2012 5:52pm

GRMA wrote: »

Junder do you really think he was killed because he was a protestant? If so, why?

To me its clear he was killed because he was a prison officer who worked in Roe House, as you know there has been a rapidly escalating protest going on now for quite a while within the prison. Is that not the more logical conclusion? If he was a catholic it wouldnt have made any difference they would still have been willing to kill him.

The above doesn't make it ok or less reprehensible that he was killed btw.

It's clear that some loyalists are chomping at the bit to "retaliate" and are looking for any excuse to do so - especially give the summer. Relics clinging to the past.
Interesting how the thread about this on PULSE, which was initially full of posts about how he was a good "christian protestant", a great guy just doing his job etc etc ground to a halt when it was pointed out that the UVF murdered prison officers before.

So far the dissidents plan to being the army back on the streets has failed, if they don't achieve this in the near future they will shrivel and die, they base thier whole idologly on a so called British occupation, bit hard to sell that vision both at home and overseas when there is no visible evidence of occupation. Moreover having the army back on the streets would undermine Sinn Fein being in governemt and indeed thier whole peace process strategy. It would also give them a more visible target to attack. So far they have failed to achieve this re-militarisation. I believe that the only way they will achieve re-militarisation is to provoke a reaction from loyalist paramiltarys, the only way that will happen is to shoot prods. I would not be surprised to see more (Protestant) members if the security forces targeted so they can promote the myth that they are shooting legitimate targets.

GRMA · 03-11-2012 6:02pm

junder wrote: »

Just because there was not enough evidence to prosecute Duffy does not mean he is innocent

He was prosecuted. And deemed innocent.

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 6:52pm

junder wrote: »

So far the dissidents plan to being the army back on the streets has failed, if they don't achieve this in the near future they will shrivel and die, they base thier whole idologly on a so called British occupation, bit hard to sell that vision both at home and overseas when there is no visible evidence of occupation. Moreover having the army back on the streets would undermine Sinn Fein being in governemt and indeed thier whole peace process strategy. It would also give them a more visible target to attack. So far they have failed to achieve this re-militarisation. I believe that the only way they will achieve re-militarisation is to provoke a reaction from loyalist paramiltarys, the only way that will happen is to shoot prods. I would not be surprised to see more (Protestant) members if the security forces targeted so they can promote the myth that they are shooting legitimate targets.

Give over,if they only wanted the army back on the streets all they have to do is shoot up a pub full of protestants,your point is futile.

junder · 03-11-2012 7:07pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Give over,if they only wanted the army back on the streets all they have to do is shoot up a pub full of protestants,your point is futile.

They could and whose to say that wont happen in the future, when they start to get really frustrated, but for now they want to maintain the illusion that they are soldiers and they are shooting legitimate targets

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 7:19pm

junder wrote: »

They could and whose to say that wont happen in the future, when they start to get really frustrated, but for now they want to maintain the illusion that they are soldiers and they are shooting legitimate targets

So basically that just makes your argument void.

.jacksparrow. · 03-11-2012 7:20pm

The_Mask wrote: »

Would the circumstances or your view change if this guy was a taxi driver? No i dont think so. His job as a PO may have caused him to have been singled out but he wasnt killed purely because of it.

Huh?this makes no sense.

pablomakaveli · 03-11-2012 7:21pm

junder wrote: »

Seems to me your trying to brush his religious and political identy under the carpet, seems it sits easier if he is stripped of his identity and reduced to merely a prison officer, in much the same way as our brothers, uncles, fathers and friends who were murdered in the past where reduced to being merely soldiers or policemen. No doubt you have heard of six degrees of seperation, well I don't know this prison officer personnly but I do know people who do know him, making him more then just a faceless prison officer

Or maybe im looking at the murder and drawing a logical conclusion as to why he was target, unlike yourself who seems intent in painting it as a murder based purely on religion.

Prison officer killed in suspect dissident ambush

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