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Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,958 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Right, i think i can put this story down as false now, as i have just found the Sergeants Pay Scales and the most he can earn (basic) is just over €53k (after 17 years as a Sergeant). Yes, there will be the allowences, but i somehow doubt they come to 12k a year. Edit: My apologies, i can see it coming to 12k a year on second look, but it's not guaranteed.

    Also, at the person who quoted me a few pages back and said that all Gardai get paid too much, would you do the same job for less? But, that is an unfair question. Nobody knows if they could or couldn't do the job unless you've actually done it. Those who work it know what it is like, and those who don't speculate about how easy it must be, and about all the free sandwiches and coffee they get (I'd love to know where, i get nothing for free!!).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    The absolute stinking prevailing attitude on this thread is appalling. Some people wont be happy til we're all back eating potatoes and running around without shoes. (shoes! what sure in my day we didnt need any shoes)

    Anyway, some clarifications from the journalist fyi
    A few points are worth repeating about the article and the background to its publication. My first duty was to protect the family’s anonymity, so significant details such as the number of children were withheld. Verification of the garda’s weekly income was available in the form of his payslip and we had permission to publish it in its original form, with name and identifying details redacted. A view was taken by senior editors, however, that certain other details might have identified the payee so this too was withheld.

    The family has been characterised by some as foolishly clinging to “middle-class” fixations, such as private health insurance. The wife has explained that her husband is over 50 and in stressful work. They do not smoke or socialise. She is acutely aware that buying a house at the height of the property boom was a poor decision in hindsight. As other have argued here, they are hardly exceptional in that.
    The payslip and the Mabs analysis of weekly expenditure confirm that there is no financial “black hole”. There have been efforts to supplement their income.

    The point of the article was not to defend the past or present choices of any individual but to provide an insight into how the timing of that decision to buy a home and the cuts in public service pay and overtime have affected one middle-income public servant’s family. Contrary to some of the comment here, I have often written in the past about the difficulty of persuading such people to give interviews. The harshness of some of the criticism directed at this family explains why perhaps.

    I accept that the figures could have been better explained in the original article. The next post will provides further details from the Mabs analysis.
    To clarify : the garda sergeant earned 75,000 gross LAST year, including allowances and considerable overtime. That was clearly an exceptional year.

    Now, the family’s total weekly income, including child benefit, is e807 net, according to Mabs (the Money Advice and Budgeting Service). The following is its projected weekly expenditure, according to a schedule prepared by the same agency :

    Mortgage (interest only): 280.00
    Mortgage Protection Insurance 15,00
    Buildings/Contents Insurance 7.00
    Food/Housekeeping 200,00
    Electricity Usage 25.00
    Heat/Fuel Usage 25.00
    TV licence 4.00
    Waste Charges 5.00
    Telephone/Other utilities 43.00
    Transports costs 127.50
    Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 75.00
    Clothing/Footwear 60.00
    Medical costs (insurance) 73.23
    Repairs & Maintenance 20.00
    Other Expenditure 84.00
    Credit Union 50.00

    Total 1,093.73

    Not included are weekly pension-related contributions of around e80.

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  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah, they're paying back interest only on the mortgage, one has to ask how they were affording it at any point in the last 7 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    fits wrote: »
    The absolute stinking prevailing attitude on this thread is appalling. Some people wont be happy til we're all back eating potatoes and running around without shoes. (shoes! what sure in my day we didnt need any shoes)

    Anyway, some clarifications from the journalist fyi

    They are so poor, they can not eat but they are putting €50 in the credit union every week

    €200/week on food, yet somedays they can't eat properly - what is this woman buying?

    €84 other expenditure-after all bills and expenses are paid
    €60 a week on clothes - when the children wear uniforms to school and can not eat




    Get the frick out of here:pac::pac:



    Edit: Mabs are showing themselves up to be incompetent here if they can't show them ways to cut costs and refers them to SVDP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,958 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Boombastic wrote: »
    They are so poor, they can not eat but they are putting €50 in the credit union every week

    If he has a loan in the credit union, then the €50 a week is standard, you have no choice in the matter. If you have a loan, you have to pay a certain amount towards savings, which cannot be touched until all loans are cleared.

    @buttonftw: He was taking home more as he was paying less taxes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    If he has a loan in the credit union, then the €50 a week is standard, you have no choice in the matter. If you have a loan, you have to pay a certain amount towards savings, which cannot be touched until all loans are cleared.

    @buttonftw: He was taking home more as he was paying less taxes.

    Yes, but the credit union are always willing to come to an arrangement you can afford - they would take 20 or 15 quid a week if you explain your situation - some will still go to your loan and some to your savings.


    Also he has savings - in yesterdays story they didn't.


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If he has a loan in the credit union, then the €50 a week is standard, you have no choice in the matter. If you have a loan, you have to pay a certain amount towards savings, which cannot be touched until all loans are cleared.

    @buttonftw: He was taking home more as he was paying less taxes.

    How much less is he getting now, would it be as much as the over 300 a week they're in the red?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Can people not just accept that for whatever reason... these people are in trouble?!

    Its not absolute dire straits, but its no cake walk either. I feel sorry for them anyway. I dont think people expose their financial circumstances to MABS for the craic.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭barbiegirl


    fits wrote: »
    The absolute stinking prevailing attitude on this thread is appalling. Some people wont be happy til we're all back eating potatoes and running around without shoes. (shoes! what sure in my day we didnt need any shoes)

    Anyway, some clarifications from the journalist fyi

    I disagree, I think the prevailing attitude is that the story is not all true, and that they are talking out of their asses if they can't afford to eat on what they earn. Not that they are on the pigs back or rich or anything like that. They have decent money coming in and should be able to manage better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    fits wrote: »
    The absolute stinking prevailing attitude on this thread is appalling. Some people wont be happy til we're all back eating potatoes and running around without shoes. (shoes! what sure in my day we didnt need any shoes)

    Anyway, some clarifications from the journalist fyi

    and so ends a (pre budget)party political broadcast on behalf of the PS"


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    and so ends a (pre budget)party political broadcast on behalf of the PS"

    Whatever... :rolleyes:

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭vitani


    Only got to page 16ish, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but what on earth were the banks thinking of giving a mortgage to someone who'd be retiring about ten years before it was due to be paid off??

    Stupid, reckless lending practices.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,178 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    fits wrote: »
    Anyway, some clarifications from the journalist fyi
    To clarify : the garda sergeant earned 75,000 gross LAST year, including allowances and considerable overtime. That was clearly an exceptional year.

    Now, the family’s total weekly income, including child benefit, is e807 net, according to Mabs (the Money Advice and Budgeting Service). The following is its projected weekly expenditure, according to a schedule prepared by the same agency :

    Mortgage (interest only): 280.00
    Mortgage Protection Insurance 15,00
    Buildings/Contents Insurance 7.00
    Food/Housekeeping 200,00
    Electricity Usage 25.00
    Heat/Fuel Usage 25.00
    TV licence 4.00
    Waste Charges 5.00
    Telephone/Other utilities 43.00
    Transports costs 127.50
    Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 75.00
    Clothing/Footwear 60.00
    Medical costs (insurance) 73.23
    Repairs & Maintenance 20.00
    Other Expenditure 84.00
    Credit Union 50.00

    lets put all of that into its monthly equivalent. All figures have been multiplied by four, assuming an average of four weeks in a given month.

    Mortgage (interest only): 1120.00
    Mortgage Protection Insurance 60.00
    Buildings/Contents Insurance 28.00
    Food/Housekeeping 800.00
    Electricity Usage 100.00
    Heat/Fuel Usage 100.00
    TV licence 16.00
    Waste Charges 20.00
    Telephone/Other utilities 172.00
    Transports costs 510.00
    Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 300.00
    Clothing/Footwear 240.00
    Medical costs (insurance) 292.92
    Repairs & Maintenance 80.00
    Other Expenditure 336.00
    Credit Union 200.00


    Some of those figures put in a monthly context give a different view on their outgoings.

    Also, some of those read as costs that crop up once, maybe twice, a year such as college registration fees or childrens uniform costs, so lets put all those figures into a yearly context. All monthly figures multiplied by twelve.


    Mortgage (interest only): 13440.00
    Mortgage Protection Insurance 720.00
    Buildings/Contents Insurance 336.00
    Food/Housekeeping 9600.00
    Electricity Usage 1200.00
    Heat/Fuel Usage 1200.00
    TV licence 192.00
    Waste Charges 240.00
    Telephone/Other utilities 2064.00
    Transports costs 6120.00
    Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 3600.00
    Clothing/Footwear 2880.00
    Medical costs (insurance) 3515.04
    Repairs & Maintenance 960.00
    Other Expenditure 4032.00
    Credit Union 2400.00

    There are quite a few black holes in that list, ignoring things like college registration fees appearing once a year, likewise children's uniforms ... And all of that ignores the elephant in the list. €9600 a year on food and still can't feed the family.

    I find it very difficult to believe the narrative that people are being asked to accept. The cost breakdown per week is just ... too "neat". Unless those who produced the claim want us to believe that this is a family budgeting for such costs in a given year. But again I don't swallow that because such prudent folk wouldn't have taken out such a crazy mortgage in the first place.

    The only red flag that I can really accept is that anyone paying €13k+ on an interest only mortgage is neck deep regardless of anything else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    Sensible people who save up until they can afford to actually buy a house instead of a lifetime of debt?
    Holiday home or buy to rent (nap).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    and they are paying €40 more than the rest of us for a tv licence


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,719 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Can anyone state how much they paid for the house as I can't find it in the thread, please.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Can anyone state how much they paid for the house as I can't find it in the thread, please.
    I don't think they ever said, it just give what their mortgage repayment was


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Lemming wrote: »
    All monthly figures multiplied by twelve.

    If you are going to nitpick on the figures, there are 52 weeks in a year. Not 48.


    The only red flag that I can really accept is that anyone paying €13k+ on an interest only mortgage is neck deep regardless of anything else.

    That is for sure

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,719 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    vitani wrote: »
    Only got to page 16ish, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but what on earth were the banks thinking of giving a mortgage to someone who'd be retiring about ten years before it was due to be paid off??

    Stupid, reckless lending practices.

    About 10 years ago when my mortgage was nearly paid off the E.B.S. wrote to me offering me a huge top-up, car loan or loan for holiday home if I wanted it. Thank God i was happy with what I had. Stuck to my means.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    About 10 years ago when my mortgage was nearly paid off the E.B.S. wrote to me offering me a huge top-up, car loan or loan for holiday home if I wanted it. Thank God i was happy with what I had. Stuck to my means.

    I'm pretty delighted I never had the money to get a mortgage in the first place. That would have been a world of disaster... *relief*

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,320 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    If she cut down on the expensive items like cornflakes then she'd save a good bit of money. Surprised no one has mentioned taking the kids into care and away from such neglectful parents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,719 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    fits wrote: »
    I'm pretty delighted I never had the money to get a mortgage in the first place. That would have been a world of disaster... *relief*

    I was earning very good money then and bought a biggish house. The intention was to sell it when I retired and buy a small one using the remainder as a retirement fund. The house was worth a lot then but only about half now. Could have been a serious disaster if the recession had occurred 15 years ago instead of now. But sure that's life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,178 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    fits wrote: »
    If you are going to nitpick on the figures, there are 52 weeks in a year. Not 48.

    I am not nit-picking. If I wanted to do that, I'd have gone into a breakdown of why some of those figures just do not add up. But I didn't. Because I wasn't nit-picking. You are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 Mill03


    She is taking the mickie.. 75k and cant live:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,719 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Mill03 wrote: »
    She is taking the mickie.. 75k and cant live:)

    Great first post ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    To clarify : the garda sergeant earned 75,000 gross LAST year, including allowances and considerable overtime. That was clearly an exceptional year.


    Now, the family’s total weekly income, including child benefit, is e807 net, according to Mabs (the Money Advice and Budgeting Service). The following is its projected weekly expenditure, according to a schedule prepared by the same agency :

    He brings home 715/week. 715 * 52 = 37180 out of a salary of 75,000

    75,000-37180 = 37820 He pays 37,820 or 50.42%tax on all of his wages(this does not include pension, insurance etc as these are accounted for separately)
    could someone please explain to me how he pays so much tax (I'm not a financial adviser as previously mentioned)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Lemming wrote: »
    I am not nit-picking. If I wanted to do that, I'd have gone into a breakdown of why some of those figures just do not add up. But I didn't. Because I wasn't nit-picking. You are.[/QUOTE/]

    OH HELLOOO

    You multiplied the weekly calculations by four to get monthly and then by twelve to get annual. 4*12 is 48 There are 52 weeks in a year!

    If you're going to fine comb the figures, at least do it without missing out on four weeks of income/expenditure!

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Here's the figures Lemming was aiming for (if they're not nitpicking, I am :D)

    *52/year Outgoing
    Mortgage (interest only) 14560
    Mortgage Protection Insurance 780
    Buildings/Contents Insurance 364
    Food/Housekeeping 10400
    Electricity Usage 1300
    Heat/Fuel Usage   1300
    TV licence 208
    Waste Charges 260
    Telephone/Other utilities 2236
    Transports costs 6604
    Educational costs
    (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 3900
    Clothing/Footwear 3120
    Medical costs (insurance) 3807.96
    Repairs & Maintenance 1040
    Other Expenditure 4368
    Credit Union 2600

    Total Outgoing/year 56847.96



    It also must be noted that these are projected costs, not actual costs. Whoever is projecting these costs needs to check the price of things, for instance the TV licence


    At first I thought €25 for heat/week ok, but we only need to use the heat 6 months of the year, max so are they projected to spend €50/week on heat during winter? how the frig are they heating the house??


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Boombastic wrote: »
    He brings home 715/week. 715 * 52 = 37180 out of a salary of 75,000

    75,000-37180 = 37820 He pays 37,820 or 50.42%tax on all of his wages(this does not include pension, insurance etc as these are accounted for separately)
    could someone please explain to me how he pays so much tax (I'm not a financial adviser as previously mentioned)

    Ah god this has been said multiple times already.

    LAST YEAR he grossed 75k including allowances and overtime.

    Now given a reduction in overtime etc, he takes home 715/week

    His basic salary is 51k before allowances and overtime.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Stheno wrote: »
    Ah god this has been said multiple times already.

    LAST YEAR he grossed 75k including allowances and overtime.

    Now given a reduction in overtime etc, he takes home 715/week

    His basic salary is 51k before allowances and overtime.

    Still doesn't add


    Why don't you try and answer some of the questions that haven't been answered multiple times already, like why is his tv licence €48 more than what the rest of us are paying?


This discussion has been closed.
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