Farming Chit Chat

bogman_bass · 16-09-2012 02:48PM

Ah Karen! Dont leave us hangin! Share the love (and the bull code)

mrs browns boys · 16-09-2012 04:57PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Ah Karen! Dont leave us hangin! Share the love (and the bull code)

she not the only one with that bull code but i wont share:D:D

Bigbird1 · 16-09-2012 05:04PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Ah Karen! Dont leave us hangin! Share the love (and the bull code)

What animal was seen and what breed?

rancher · 16-09-2012 05:08PM

Richk2012 wrote: »

First 2 cows calved this week . Both BB 3rd calvers .
First cow calved tuesday morning to BBQ Belgian . Gave her plenty of time but she was struggling . Ended up helping her , and was a hard enough calving but not terrible . She had a great white bull calf with a huge pair of hips . He was a bit slow to get up and suck with the weight of him but hes flying now .

The second was a bad start to the calving . Her time wasnt up until this coming saturday but she started Thursday morning , 9 days early .. Got her in the crush to see what was going on and realised the calf was dead . She was carrying VDV Maserati BB . Let her back into the shed an gave her more time but she wasnt making progress and couldnt pass the head . A shocking rough calving , got caught at the shoulders and then the hips were disasterous . Bent the new calving jack with the goings on , but finally got her out . Couldnt believe the cow was back up within the hour ..

Have taken up some more springers that are carrying BB and put them in the shed this morning on a diet of straw and pre calving minerals hoping this will help . They were on a bare enough sod before this as i am always cautious of their diet within the last six weeks of pregnancy

When feeding straw on its own, aren't you supposed to feed protein to help the digestion, otherwise they get constipated. That's what I always learnt, ... will google it now
Found it
''Impaction, which can result in death, may occur when cattle are consuming low protein low digestible forages such as straw.
Therefore, a high protein supplement feed such as whole cottonseed, corn gluten feed, distillers
grains, wet brewers grains, and oilseed meals must be fed. Soybean or cottonseed meal can be
mixed with a lower protein feed such as soybean hulls or corn in a mixture of two-thirds soybean
hulls or corn to one-third oilseed meal. Supplements should be a minimum of 18% crude protein''

Kovu · 16-09-2012 06:48PM

mrs browns boys wrote: »

she not the only one with that bull code but i wont share:D:D

Me? I've only got the one bull code

bbam · 16-09-2012 07:56PM

We oral drenched our calves yesterday, albidex or something close to that, they're about 12 weeks old and have been in/out on grass for about two weeks..

I was surprised that a few of them have wee coughs thismorning, presumably from dieing parasites in the lungs.. I know they have absolutely no immunity but its amazing how quickly they pick them up..

1chippy · 16-09-2012 10:30PM

Calf down with pneumonia this eve, brought him to the vet , said he was a goner. so going vaccinating everything tomorrow.

bogman_bass · 16-09-2012 10:43PM

reckoned this was the last window of opportunity to reseed a feild I had sprayed of since july. Couldnt get the bseed barrow from the co-op and this perticular feild wouldnt lend itself well to large machines so getting a contractor wasnt an option so myself and the old lad headed off with 2 buckets and 6 stakes and broadcast by hand. Gave it another run with the chain harrow and now we play the waiting game

bob charles · 16-09-2012 10:57PM

1chippy wrote: »

Calf down with pneumonia this eve, brought him to the vet , said he was a goner. so going vaccinating everything tomorrow.

its a bitch, but as usual a few animals have to be lost before most people decide to start vaccinating animals, thus making the whole job dearer. yes its expensive but there is a serious payback. started vaccinating a couple of weeks ago and must get more done this week.

Richk2012 · 17-09-2012 07:13AM

rancher wrote: »

When feeding straw on its own, aren't you supposed to feed protein to help the digestion, otherwise they get constipated. That's what I always learnt, ... will google it now
Found it
''Impaction, which can result in death, may occur when cattle are consuming low protein low digestible forages such as straw.
Therefore, a high protein supplement feed such as whole cottonseed, corn gluten feed, distillers
grains, wet brewers grains, and oilseed meals must be fed. Soybean or cottonseed meal can be
mixed with a lower protein feed such as soybean hulls or corn in a mixture of two-thirds soybean
hulls or corn to one-third oilseed meal. Supplements should be a minimum of 18% crude protein''

Thanks for mentioning this rancher.
I have never fed straw as a main diet for cattle before .
Although last winter i was feeding springing heifers straw and haylage mixed. A bale of haylage followed by straw and back to haylage to aid in the calvings and it also it helped save feed . I noticed them last year getting tight in the dung an put it down to the straw they were eating but they were getting mollases and minerals , so i think the mollases aswell as the moist haylage kept them from constipating .
The frustrating thing about this conversation here is , i called down to my vet Thursday evening to collect a p.o.m , and sat down and told him the scenario, and he advised me to house remaining cows which i think will have an issue calving and put them on a straw only diet . I asked would any other concentrates be required and he said just straw and minerals :mad: .

pakalasa · 17-09-2012 07:33AM

Cows should be 'Restricted' in diet 6 weeks before calving. This should be more like ' going on a diet', so you have to be careful not to leave the cow seriously short of energy or an unbalanced diet.

whelan1 · 17-09-2012 07:49AM

pakalasa wrote: »

Cows should be 'Restricted' in diet 6 weeks before calving. This should be more like ' going on a diet', so you have to be careful not to leave the cow seriously short of energy or an unbalanced diet.

yes but cows should also be o a rising plane of nutrition prior to calving... have to get a balance also

pakalasa · 17-09-2012 09:23AM

whelan1 wrote: »

yes but cows should also be o a rising plane of nutrition prior to calving... have to get a balance also

Is that not more so for Dairy cows, where they have a sudden drain of energy, having to produce a huge amount of milk all of a sudden. Problems with milk fever etc.
I don't know, but it might be different with suckler cows. The main thing with sucklers is to get that big calf out of her as handy as possible. Restricting the diet keeps condition of cow and calf. Milk fever is less of a problem and she only has to produce a drop of milk for the calf.

reilig · 17-09-2012 09:32AM

pakalasa wrote: »

Is that not more so for Dairy cows, where they have a sudden drain of energy, having to produce a huge amount of milk all of a sudden. Problems with milk fever etc.
I don't know, but it might be different with suckler cows. The main thing with sucklers is to get that big calf out of her as handy as possible. Restricting the diet keeps condition of cow and calf. Milk fever is less of a problem and she only has to produce a drop of milk for the calf.

From the better farm walk last week, the Vet speaker suggested that the most important thing for spring calving suckler cows is to have them in good enough condition before they go into the shed. He suggested that you introduce a restricted diet gradually from 10 weeks before calving and implement the diet in full from 6 weeks before calving. It is important that this diet has a restricted amount of protein as opposed to quantity. This is why hay or straw is ideal. He also highlighted the importance of giving minerals before calving to ensure calf health and that the cow will go back in calf soon after calving. On the farm that we were on, he gives 2 all trace bullets and 1 copper bullet 8 weeks before calving.

Kovu · 17-09-2012 09:52AM

This morning I think I could turn into her

bob charles · 17-09-2012 10:19AM

reilig wrote: »

From the better farm walk last week, the Vet speaker suggested that the most important thing for spring calving suckler cows is to have them in good enough condition before they go into the shed. He suggested that you introduce a restricted diet gradually from 10 weeks before calving and implement the diet in full from 6 weeks before calving. It is important that this diet has a restricted amount of protein as opposed to quantity. This is why hay or straw is ideal. He also highlighted the importance of giving minerals before calving to ensure calf health and that the cow will go back in calf soon after calving. On the farm that we were on, he gives 2 all trace bullets and 1 copper bullet 8 weeks before calving.

I would be very slow taking a vets nutrition advice, I know when ever im talking to my vets and an issue crosses over into the feeding of the animals my vets quite rightly say thats not our field. there are plenty of "free" nutrition advice available either on the net or from vested reps. Correction nutrition during the year should mean the restrictive diets arent needed, as restrictive diets are not in the animals interest in the 6 weeks before calving. Its not my place to talk about nutrition for breeding animals so that all I have to say

vanderbadger · 17-09-2012 10:21AM

anyone buy vexcoxan recently, it was 130 euros in kerry coop there at weekend :eek::eek: jebus it used to be 100 euros not so long ago, is 130 the norm now ?

whelan1 · 17-09-2012 10:23AM

vanderbadger wrote: »

anyone buy vexcoxan recently, it was 130 euros in kerry coop there at weekend :eek::eek: jebus it used to be 100 euros not so long ago, is 130 the norm now ?

think it was €125 last week... i know its dear but well worth it for what it does

rancher · 17-09-2012 10:42AM

Richk2012 wrote: »

Thanks for mentioning this rancher.
I have never fed straw as a main diet for cattle before .
Although last winter i was feeding springing heifers straw and haylage mixed. A bale of haylage followed by straw and back to haylage to aid in the calvings and it also it helped save feed . I noticed them last year getting tight in the dung an put it down to the straw they were eating but they were getting mollases and minerals , so i think the mollases aswell as the moist haylage kept them from constipating .
The frustrating thing about this conversation here is , i called down to my vet Thursday evening to collect a p.o.m , and sat down and told him the scenario, and he advised me to house remaining cows which i think will have an issue calving and put them on a straw only diet . I asked would any other concentrates be required and he said just straw and minerals :mad: .

yea haylage would have kept them right. they definitely need protein on a straw only diet,
used to feed straw and silage myself when I had cows, kept cows fit and calves small. big calves and hard calvings could be iodine defciency,
are you feeding a good mineral, we often sprayed 10 ml tincture of iodine on the shoulder where they lick every week to rise iodine levels if blood tests show low levels near calving, big necks in the calves can be symptomatic of iodine deficiency.

reilig · 17-09-2012 11:01AM

bob charles wrote: »

there are plenty of "free" nutrition advice available either on the net or from vested reps. Correction nutrition during the year should mean the restrictive diets arent needed, as restrictive diets are not in the animals interest in the 6 weeks before calving. Its not my place to talk about nutrition for breeding animals so that all I have to say

Vested Reps? There are too many guys trying to sell stuff that I don't need IMO. If animal nutrition isn't in a vet's "field" of expertise, then what is?

From the Farm walk, it looks like his vet is fairly on the ball with his nutritional advice. Since they completed the whole herd health plan 3 years ago, fertility in cows has shown a major increase, assisted calvings have decreased, retained cleanings, calf scours, pnumonia etc have all gone down. Money invested in minerals has doubled its return according to the farm owner. I can't really argue with that!

bob charles · 17-09-2012 11:23AM

reilig wrote: »

Vested Reps? There are too many guys trying to sell stuff that I don't need IMO. If animal nutrition isn't in a vet's "field" of expertise, then what is?

From the Farm walk, it looks like his vet is fairly on the ball with his nutritional advice. Since they completed the whole herd health plan 3 years ago, fertility in cows has shown a major increase, assisted calvings have decreased, retained cleanings, calf scours, pnumonia etc have all gone down. Money invested in minerals has doubled its return according to the farm owner. I can't really argue with that!

Its a Nutritionists field to be dealing with nutrition. vets deal with the mechanics of the animals. dont think the herd health plan would deal with the nutrition side of things, minerals def's yes. Money invest in needed minerals is money very well spent but unless you operate a closed herd or nearly closed herd its impossible to isolate what minerals are in deficiency. Most suck farmers should talk to their vet about getting some blood samples done to see if there is any serious mineral def.

pakalasa · 17-09-2012 12:19PM

reilig wrote: »

From the better farm walk last week, the Vet speaker suggested that the most important thing for spring calving suckler cows is to have them in good enough condition before they go into the shed......

Ya, two different points. 1- Putting condition on the cow well before 6 wks pre-calving and 2 - restricing diet in the final 6 weeks. I was talking to a guy recently who was weaning early so he could put condition back on the cows cheaply with grass before housing.

reilig · 17-09-2012 12:24PM

pakalasa wrote: »

Ya, two different points. 1- Putting condition on the cow well before 6 wks pre-calving and 2 - restricing diet in the final 6 weeks. I was talking to a guy recently who was weaning early so he could put condition back on the cows cheaply with grass before housing.

I'd definitely agree. The quality of silage isn't going to be spectacular this winter. Its cheaper to put condition on the cows with grass than feeding ration to them in the shed.

PatQfarmer · 17-09-2012 01:54PM

bbam wrote: »

We oral drenched our calves yesterday, albidex or something close to that, they're about 12 weeks old and have been in/out on grass for about two weeks..

I was surprised that a few of them have wee coughs thismorning, presumably from dieing parasites in the lungs.. I know they have absolutely no immunity but its amazing how quickly they pick them up..

Delayed doing the September '11 calves until December last year and ended up with pneumonia in a few after dosing, the worm burden was so high.
All calves will be done after 2 weeks at grass from now on...

PatQfarmer · 17-09-2012 01:56PM

1chippy wrote: »

Calf down with pneumonia this eve, brought him to the vet , said he was a goner. so going vaccinating everything tomorrow.

Sorry to hear that!
Did all the Spring calves with booster last week.
Autumn '11 ones get theirs this weekend.
I always try to keep ahead with vaccination. Learned to my cost:(

bob charles · 17-09-2012 02:30PM

I dont know how accountants stick their job. Im an hour into doing my accounts and trying to do anything to avoid having to do them.

Richk2012 · 17-09-2012 05:51PM

rancher wrote: »

yea haylage would have kept them right. they definitely need protein on a straw only diet,
used to feed straw and silage myself when I had cows, kept cows fit and calves small. big calves and hard calvings could be iodine defciency,
are you feeding a good mineral, we often sprayed 10 ml tincture of iodine on the shoulder where they lick every week to rise iodine levels if blood tests show low levels near calving, big necks in the calves can be symptomatic of iodine deficiency.

Cows in the field have access to Gain Pre Calving buckets and have for the last 6 weeks .
Last year i bought dissolvable pre calver mineral tablets from mayo healthcare that are hung in a net dispenser under the water line of the water trough and replaced weekly.
However i went off to co-op today after getting more information on straw diets and the need for protien to stop "impaction" , and i bought Gain Pre Calver Gold powder along with soya bean meal and will mix it with a small amount of mollasses for energy .

Muckit · 17-09-2012 06:11PM

reilig wrote: »

It is important that this diet has a restricted amount of protein as opposed to quantity. This is why hay or straw is ideal. He also highlighted the importance of giving minerals before calving to ensure calf health and that the cow will go back in calf soon after calving. On the farm that we were on, he gives 2 all trace bullets and 1 copper bullet 8 weeks before calving.

That's gas about the protein Reilig. I was at another suckler day (outside of the BETTER scheme), where the underfeeding of protein was NOT recommended.

According to the speaker on the day, he alluded to several studies that showed low protein feeding of the cow in late gestation resulted in decreased calf vigour, delayed uterine involution, increased interval to oestrus and decreased conception rates following calving.

Feeding of hay or haylage only was more apt for AUTUMN suckler calvers.

Recommended spring calving suckler cow diet :

7kgs DM Silage (35kgs fresh weight @20%DM)
3kgs Hay/Straw
1kg Rolled Oats
0.5kg Soyabean meal
50-80g suitable loose minerals (to incl Phosporous/ Calcium/Magnesium/sodium/copper/zinc/manganese/iodine/cobalt/selenium and vitamins A,D3,E,B12)

It's hard to know who or what to believe sometimes!

restive · 17-09-2012 06:44PM

When does aftergrass start to lose quality?

Black Smoke · 17-09-2012 06:47PM

Muckit wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

It is important that this diet has a restricted amount of protein as opposed to quantity. This is why hay or straw is ideal. He also highlighted the importance of giving minerals before calving to ensure calf health and that the cow will go back in calf soon after calving. On the farm that we were on, he gives 2 all trace bullets and 1 copper bullet 8 weeks before calving.

That's gas about the protein Reilig. I was at another suckler day (outside of the BETTER scheme), where the underfeeding of protein was NOT recommended.

According to the speaker on the day, he alluded to several studies that showed low protein feeding of the cow in late gestation resulted in decreased calf vigour, delayed uterine involution, increased interval to oestrus and decreased conception rates following calving.

Feeding of hay or haylage only was more apt for AUTUMN suckler calvers.

Recommended spring calving suckler cow diet :

7kgs DM Silage (35kgs fresh weight @20%DM)
3kgs Hay/Straw
1kg Rolled Oats
0.5kg Soyabean meal
50-80g suitable loose minerals (to incl Phosporous/ Calcium/Magnesium/sodium/copper/zinc/manganese/iodine/cobalt/selenium and vitamins A,D3,E,B12)

It's hard to know who or what to believe sometimes!

In all fairness lads, what is wrong with plain simple cop on instead of all this mumbo jumbo academic diet baloney!
Cow goes in she'd in fairly good condition. No fat not thin. Gets a bit less than ad lib silage of reasonably good quality until month before time up. Then silage cut back by more than fifty percent. Gets hay instead if you have it. Straw if you don't. Mineral bucket as well. She will more than likely calf without help and go back in calf in due course. All feed measurements by eye and experience.
The farm walk I learned that lesson was when I was ten, running around after the old man!
I think all this stuff about trace element boluses and stuff, is merely a way to lighten our pockets!

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