Would you be better off if there were no taxes, no public services?

K-9 · 12-09-2012 01:58AM

BOHtox wrote: »

the government doesn't build houses, have we a shortage?

Yet we've an over supply and the biggest property crash in Western Europe..

Waits for the blame the Government part.

TeddyTedson · 12-09-2012 01:59AM

Take it with a grain of salt. This is After Hours...on the internet. I'm not presenting a manifesto to the people of Ireland. Well not yet.

If you can't get over the fact it's stupid then just don't post in it, simples.

BOF666 · 12-09-2012 02:31AM

I'd imagine some sort of criminal organisation would start policing the country, to their own advantage. So if they made their money from drugs, the streets would be flooded with drugs.

Then they'd start demanding protection money from businesses, and if they didn’t pay, they’d be put out of business.

So you’ve got a major power, policing the country and controlling all the businesses… Sounds like the beginnings of a government to me!

And the only way to get them out of power would be another gang taking over, which would probably be violent. Can’t see it ending well either way…

Wompa1 · 12-09-2012 04:45AM

BOF666 wrote: »

I'd imagine some sort of criminal organisation would start policing the country, to their own advantage. So if they made their money from drugs, the streets would be flooded with drugs.

Then they'd start demanding protection money from businesses, and if they didn’t pay, they’d be put out of business.

So you’ve got a major power, policing the country and controlling all the businesses… Sounds like the beginnings of a government to me!

And the only way to get them out of power would be another gang taking over, which would probably be violent. Can’t see it ending well either way…

Then the pimps will be using the crack to keep their whores in line

BOF666 · 12-09-2012 05:19AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Then the pimps will be using the crack to keep their whores in line

It'd be like "Boys in the Hood!" :P

ScumLord · 12-09-2012 06:59AM

Everything would end up being much cheaper once you don't have government organizations like health and safety, fire regulations, standards and all those organizations that increase the cost of services by making them operate to a safe standard. Instead of buying an expensive boiler that won't explode you can get one that might explode for half the cost.

Instead of getting a car that has minimum safety standards like seatbelts you can get one that has none the upshot of which would be a much faster car due to it not being weighed down with safety features. Instead of having schools full of teachers educated to a standard just get someone we believe to be smart to educate our children to our believes. Priests or GAA players would be ideal.

12-09-2012 09:08AM

K-9 wrote: »

Yet we've an over supply and the biggest property crash in Western Europe..

Waits for the blame the Government part.

Of all the things to pick as an example, picking the time the govt gave all sorts of tax incentives to buy, buy, buy and build, build, build is not a good one to make your point

Akrasia · 12-09-2012 09:09AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

This fee would be competed away. Wouldn't happen.

A prime example is Somalias mobile phone network.
Zero regulation, yet Somalia is possesing of the one of the worlds best mobile networks in terms of call quality, reception coverage and cost of calls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4020259.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_in_Somalia

You forgot about this part

"Despite the absence of law and order and a functional court system, bills are paid and contracts are enforced by relying on Somalia's traditional clan system, Mr Abdullahi says.

Mobile target

But in a country divided into hundreds of fiefdoms run by rival warlords, security is a major concern.

While Telcom Somalia has some 25,000 mobile customers - and a similar number have land lines - you very rarely see anyone walking along the streets of Mogadishu chatting on their phone, in case this attracts the attention of a hungry gunman.
But despite their success, the telecoms companies say that like the population at large, they are desperate to have a government.

Mogadishu's phone engineers are going to be kept busy
"We are very interested in paying taxes," says Mr Abdullahi - not a sentiment which often passes the lips of a high-flying businessman.

And Mr Abdulkadir at the Global Internet Company fully agrees.

"We badly need a government," he says. "Everything starts with security - the situation across the country.

"All the infrastructure of the country has collapsed - education, health and roads. We need to send our staff abroad for any training."

Another problem for companies engaged in the global telecoms business is paying their foreign partners.

At present, they use Somalia's traditional "Hawala" money transfer companies to get money to Dubai, the Middle East's trading and financial hub.

With a government would come a central bank, which would make such transactions far easier.

"

They have great mobile phone quality, but if you are seen using your mobile phone you have a good chance of getting robbed and killed. Also if you can't afford to pay your bill you'll get a visit from your local friendly warlord

I think I prefer the current system

martingriff · 12-09-2012 09:18AM

ScumLord wrote: »

Everything would end up being much cheaper once you don't have government organizations like health and safety, fire regulations, standards and all those organizations that increase the cost of services by making them operate to a safe standard. Instead of buying an expensive boiler that won't explode you can get one that might explode for half the cost.

Instead of getting a car that has minimum safety standards like seatbelts you can get one that has none the upshot of which would be a much faster car due to it not being weighed down with safety features. Instead of having schools full of teachers educated to a standard just get someone we believe to be smart to educate our children to our believes. Priests or GAA players would be ideal.

I think you are getting a small bit carried away but I will agree that standards will go down.

12-09-2012 09:23AM

martingriff wrote: »

I think you are getting a small bit carried away but I will agree that standards will go down.

Until the multinationals don't want to hire workers anymore because our educational standards aren't high enough and they complain to the media about us.
No wait, that already happens

speedboatchase · 12-09-2012 09:25AM

Stupid question. I consider myself a libertarian and would prefer less government intrusion and a smaller public sector but no public sector would make no sense. Who enforces the law, for one thing? No police, no jails.

Thankfully I pay no tax where I live now but the government (Qatar) can easily foot the bill

martingriff · 12-09-2012 09:26AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Until the multinationals don't want to hire workers anymore because our educational standards aren't high enough and they complain to the media about us.
No wait, that already happens

Sorry I meant to bold the bit about boilers & cars the education I agree with a standards needs to be ahered to

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2012 10:07AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

This fee would be competed away. Wouldn't happen.

A prime example is Somalias mobile phone network.
Zero regulation, yet Somalia is possesing of the one of the worlds best mobile networks in terms of call quality, reception coverage and cost of calls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4020259.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_in_Somalia

Well that could happen. Or all the private companies could say "run a cable 40 miles into the back arse of Kerry for 1 customers"? **** that.

Much like anything that didnt generate money just wouldnt be done.

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2012 10:17AM

speedboatchase wrote: »

Thankfully I pay no tax where I live now but the government (Qatar) can easily foot the bill

Stick around till the oil runs out

Cienciano · 12-09-2012 10:43AM

BOHtox wrote: »

The government don't sell food, does that mean nowhere does?
the government doesn't build houses, have we a shortage?
The government didn't create boards.ie, but we have it now.

If the government didn't do sewerage, a private company would!

How would you make money on sewage? People can just run a pipe to the nearest river.

Earthhorse · 12-09-2012 10:47AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Take it with a grain of salt. This is After Hours...on the internet. I'm not presenting a manifesto to the people of Ireland. Well not yet.

If you can't get over the fact it's stupid then just don't post in it, simples.

Who are you, the government?

bluewolf wrote: »

Until the multinationals don't want to hire workers anymore because our educational standards aren't high enough and they complain to the media about us.
No wait, that already happens

They complained to the media about us? Heavens to Betsy, how will we get over the embarrassment?

Ush1 · 12-09-2012 10:51AM

It's sorta how America works.

It's great if you're really rich, not so nice for everyone else.

mitosis · 12-09-2012 10:53AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Roads would all be tolls. All public transport would be... er.. private I guess.
No medical benefits/child support/pensions.
But I guess you could always have insurance and take out your own pensions.
I would have more more money I feel but am much happier having these services in place even if they're not exactly run efficiently.

Private schools would sure make having kids expensive.

But just think of all the tax money you have paid over the years...

What about policing, fire services? Happy to do your own?

12-09-2012 10:55AM

250 euro to call out the fire brigade already sure

humbert · 12-09-2012 12:02PM

For me policing, the legal system and monopolies are the big problem in this scenario.

Policing and the legal system suck at the moment due to a lack of accountability (and the daft notion that you can write down laws, blindly interpret them and expect justice) but that could only get worse. Huge companies would become unchallengeable, as in Robocop.

I think a government is necessary but an absolutely minimal one.

Annasopra · 12-09-2012 12:18PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

So we pay a private company to run the Gardai.

Sounds like taxes :pac:

No - private security companies would police and patrol wealthy areas only because they would pay for it.

Annasopra · 12-09-2012 12:22PM

BOHtox wrote: »

The government don't sell food, does that mean nowhere does?
the government doesn't build houses, have we a shortage?
The government didn't create boards.ie, but we have it now.

If the government didn't do sewerage, a private company would!

Sewerage for the rich only!

4zn76tysfajdxp · 12-09-2012 12:23PM

Blowfish wrote: »

The difference being, the Gardai have a monopoly on private security/law enforcement, where as without government, there'd be numerous companies competing for the role and you could choose between them, or even choose not to pay for private security/law enforcement at all.

Blowfish wrote: »

There wouldn't be 'laws' as such, but there are various ideas on private dispute resolution services, most likely this is theorised to be based on reputation. Some of it is covered here.

Here's a scenario: A fiscally-broke young woman (Lucy) is raped. She has no idea who did it. Does a private security/law enforcement investigate the entire crime? She doesn't have any money to hire them with, though. She can't afford counseling sessions afterwards or a trip to the hospital to have her wounds tended to.

Perhaps a crime insurance scheme has been implemented and she would have had a policy taken out. Unfortunately she only got the cheapest policy (she is broke, after all) and that doesn't cover more expensive crimes such a rape and murder. Tough luck, Lucy. Should've gone for the deluxe package.

speedboatchase · 12-09-2012 12:56PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Stick around till the oil runs out

Shouldn't be a problem, they own most of London at this rate

humbert · 12-09-2012 01:00PM

Khalid Cuddly Hairline wrote: »

Here's a scenario: A fiscally-broke young woman (Lucy) is raped. She has no idea who did it. Does a private security/law enforcement investigate the entire crime? She doesn't have any money to hire them with, though. She can't afford counseling sessions afterwards or a trip to the hospital to have her wounds tended to.

Perhaps a crime insurance scheme has been implemented and she would have had a policy taken out. Unfortunately she only got the cheapest policy (she is broke, after all) and that doesn't cover more expensive crimes such a rape and murder. Tough luck, Lucy. Should've gone for the deluxe package.

Although. Lucy is a financially unfortunate Dub with a grating lower class accent who's on welfare. She gets attacked and raped. She reports it to the gardai who assume she was just drunk and fighting. Nothing happens.

K-9 · 12-09-2012 01:17PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Of all the things to pick as an example, picking the time the govt gave all sorts of tax incentives to buy, buy, buy and build, build, build is not a good one to make your point

Indeed, but his point was Government didn't build houses and they didn't, mostly left even Local Authority housing to the private sector and we certainly didn't have a shortage, oh boy, that is definitely one thing we didn't have.

Tax breaks was a big factor, so was little to no regulation. As I said, somebody would come along and blame Government while ignoring the rest.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 12-09-2012 03:20PM

humbert wrote: »

Although. Lucy is a financially unfortunate Dub with a grating lower class accent who's on welfare. She gets attacked and raped. She reports it to the gardai who assume she was just drunk and fighting. Nothing happens.

A failure by individual members of the force then, not simply an inherent flaw in the idea of public policing.

ScumLord · 12-09-2012 03:31PM

martingriff wrote: »

I think you are getting a small bit carried away but I will agree that standards will go down.

Of course they'll go down because there would be few repercussions to companies for making sub standard products.

Companies rarely implement any safety standard off their own bat and in most cases fight them tooth and nail.

They could also start making faulty products and there would be no comeback for the customer.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 12-09-2012 03:34PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Of course they'll go down because there would be few repercussions to companies for making sub standard products.

Companies rarely implement any safety standard off their own bat and in most cases fight them tooth and nail.

They could also start making faulty products and there would be no comeback for the customer.

That's not true, you can turn to the competition!

Assuming there is any competition. All the while hoping that the competition hasn't also lowered their safety and manufacturing standards even further in order to... compete.

take everything · 12-09-2012 03:37PM

In before Permabear.

Would you be better off if there were no taxes, no public services?

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