Bond 23 - "Skyfall" spoilers from post 595

Sleepy · 01-08-2012 10:48am

Dalton was always my favourite Bond. A crying shame he didn't have a longer run.

Bond, at the end of the day, is a cold-blooded assassin. That's always been what the double-O signified. I'd disagree on Craig not portraying Bond with intelligence btw. He's arguably not as charismatic as Connery's (or even Lazenby's) portrayals but Moore's Bond was simply a smarmy git and, as Paudie223 pointed out, aside from Goldeneye (which, like Casino Royale, was directed by Campbell and remains one of the best Bond movies imo) he was given absolute drivel to work with.

When Craig was cast, I firmly believed they'd missed a trick in passing over Clive Owen (who I still think would make a great Bond but will be too old for it by the end of Craig's run) but he really surpassed my expectations: his portrayal is of a cocky, smooth guy who while restrained is someone you *really* wouldn't want to get in the way of. The worst you'd have had to fear from Moore's bond was a judo throw, Craig's would just snap your neck.

al28283 · 01-08-2012 10:52am

Sleepy wrote: »

The worst you'd have had to fear from Moore's bond was a judo throw, Craig's would just snap your neck.

Moore always bothered me. He was just a creepy old guy, the kinda guy you wouldn't trust around kids

FlashD · 01-08-2012 12:15pm

I like all the Bonds apart from Brosnan, I think it was the first time I gave up on Bond, he showed great promise with Golden Eye but it all rapidly disappeared downhill after that.

Connery is my favourite, I grew up with Moore on TV so I dig his campy one liner style. Octopussy was a christmas favourite on RTE.

Dalton was an excellent Bond, License To Kill was the first Bond film I saw in the cinema. Who could forget the guy getting blown up in the pressure chamber and the finale with the trucks was mighty.

No more than Dalton I suppose, poor George Lazenby failed to get a clear run at the role.

krudler · 01-08-2012 12:57pm

al28283 wrote: »

Moore always bothered me. He was just a creepy old guy, the kinda guy you wouldn't trust around kids

Especially in his later movies where he's waayyy older than the Bond girls and it looks creepy.

Another Dalton fan here, Licence To Kill is one of the most underrated Bonds imo. Him being a cold hearted bastard and going rogue 20 years before Casino Royale. The opening sequence and truck chase are still fantastic stunt sequences as well. (wonder where Nolan got the opening of TDKR from :pac: )

Sleepy · 01-08-2012 1:46pm

Delighted to see so much love for Dalton. I'm usually looked at like I have two heads when I say he's my favourite Bond!

al28283 · 01-08-2012 1:48pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Delighted to see so much love for Dalton. I'm usually looked at like I have two heads when I say he's my favourite Bond!

It's quite possible that he just didn't have enough of a chance to ruin it, if he had done 5 or 6 movies perhaps I would have gotten sick of him. Similarly if Brosnan had quit after his first 2 he'd be a lot higher on many people's list.

Sleepy · 01-08-2012 1:52pm

To be fair, he had good scripts. I wouldn't say Brosnan ruined his run at Bond, I'd say the Brocollis did.

Paudie223 · 01-08-2012 2:52pm

I genuinely believe Brosnan was born to play Bond, I thought he was great. He was suave and played the character really smoothly. The problem was the scripts he had to work with were terrible. The Broccolis really let him down after Goldeneye. Also their choice of Director for Brosnan's movies was bad, they obviously weren't willing to splash the cash. Martin Campbell the only exception. Hes a man that knows what a Bond movie needs.

Sam Mendes was a coup, the cinematographer Roger Deakins also.

senordingdong · 02-08-2012 1:40am

al28283 wrote: »

It's quite possible that he just didn't have enough of a chance to ruin it, if he had done 5 or 6 movies perhaps I would have gotten sick of him. Similarly if Brosnan had quit after his first 2 he'd be a lot higher on many people's list.

I believe Dalton was signed on to make three movies and GoldenEye was supposed to be his, but I think the film got caught up in some legal dispute and by the time the dispute was over, Dalton himself handed back the role and said too much time had passed and he was too old for the character.

Would definitely liked to have seen him again.

Paudie223 · 02-08-2012 10:06am

senordingdong wrote: »

I believe Dalton was signed on to make three movies and GoldenEye was supposed to be his, but I think the film got caught up in some legal dispute and by the time the dispute was over, Dalton himself handed back the role and said too much time had passed and he was too old for the character.

Would definitely liked to have seen him again.

Correct, Goldeneye was written by Michael France with Dalton in mind but there was 6 years of a gap between Licence to Kill and Goldeneye.

al28283 · 02-08-2012 10:08am

Paudie223 wrote: »

Correct, Goldeneye was written by Michael France with Dalton in mind but there was 6 years of a gap between Licence to Kill and Goldeneye.

it's been a while since I watched them but does 006 appear in any of the Dalton movies? It'd be cool if he had been a recurring character.
Sean Bean did an excellent job though

Paudie223 · 03-08-2012 12:23am

al28283 wrote: »

it's been a while since I watched them but does 006 appear in any of the Dalton movies? It'd be cool if he had been a recurring character.
Sean Bean did an excellent job though

Can't recall 006 appearing in any other Bond movies. We do see the other 00 agents every now and again. I remember 008 was killed in Octopussy.

krudler · 03-08-2012 12:33am

Licence To Kill had one of the best scores of any bond movie as well, Michael Kamen did a phenomenal job on it. has my favourite gunbarrell theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRy75scH5x0

dastardly00 · 03-08-2012 10:56am

Paudie223 wrote: »

Can't recall 006 appearing in any other Bond movies. We do see the other 00 agents every now and again. I remember 008 was killed in Octopussy.

I had to do a quick Google because I couldn't remember what other 00 agents appeared or were mentioned in the films. From here:

002 - Bill Fairbanks, assassinated in Beirut by Francisco Scaramanga in 1969 ("The Man With The Golden Gun"); replaced by another agent who is quickly captured during a training mission at Gibraltar ("The Living Daylights").

003 - Found dead in the Siberian ice ("A View To A Kill").

004 - Assassinated during a training mission at Gibraltar ("The Living Daylights").

006 - Alec Trevelyan, listed dead by MI6 at the hands of Soviet Colonel Ourumov during a mission with 007 to blow-up a Soviet nerve gas factory ("GoldenEye").

008 - Bond's replacement, should he be unable to complete his mission ("Goldfinger" and "The Living Daylights").

009 - Assassinated in West Berlin by a circus knife-thrower after stealing a Faberge egg ("Octopussy"); a new 009 was named as the man who put the bullet in Renard's head ("The World Is Not Enough").

al28283 · 03-08-2012 11:04am

I heard a cool theory a while ago that the name James Bond is also a codename, just like 007, and that each new actor is actually playing a different guy who takes on the name and identity of Bond as his cover.

Theres very few moments throughout the movies that show that this isnt the case, but its a cool idea

Paudie223 · 03-08-2012 11:53am

dastardly00 wrote: »

Paudie223 wrote: »

Can't recall 006 appearing in any other Bond movies. We do see the other 00 agents every now and again. I remember 008 was killed in Octopussy.

I had to do a quick Google because I couldn't remember what other 00 agents appeared or were mentioned in the films. From here:

002 - Bill Fairbanks, assassinated in Beirut by Francisco Scaramanga in 1969 ("The Man With The Golden Gun"); replaced by another agent who is quickly captured during a training mission at Gibraltar ("The Living Daylights").

003 - Found dead in the Siberian ice ("A View To A Kill").

004 - Assassinated during a training mission at Gibraltar ("The Living Daylights").

006 - Alec Trevelyan, listed dead by MI6 at the hands of Soviet Colonel Ourumov during a mission with 007 to blow-up a Soviet nerve gas factory ("GoldenEye").

008 - Bond's replacement, should he be unable to complete his mission ("Goldfinger" and "The Living Daylights").

009 - Assassinated in West Berlin by a circus knife-thrower after stealing a Faberge egg ("Octopussy"); a new 009 was named as the man who put the bullet in Renard's head ("The World Is Not Enough").

Yes my bad, it was 009 in octopussy.

MyBrokenKnees · 03-08-2012 9:17pm

al28283 wrote: »

I heard a cool theory a while ago that the name James Bond is also a codename, just like 007, and that each new actor is actually playing a different guy who takes on the name and identity of Bond as his cover.

Theres very few moments throughout the movies that show that this isnt the case, but its a cool idea

I do like that idea very cool indeed

OldeCinemaSoz · 03-08-2012 10:47pm

SIDESHOW apart, i have that funny feeling TAKEN 2, early Oct
with The Nees, is going to rupture a certain secret agent
comeback LATER in the month...

:eek:

OU812 · 03-08-2012 10:58pm

al28283 wrote: »

I heard a cool theory a while ago that the name James Bond is also a codename, just like 007, and that each new actor is actually playing a different guy who takes on the name and identity of Bond as his cover.

Theres very few moments throughout the movies that show that this isnt the case, but its a cool idea[/QUOTE

I was told that by Pierce Briosnan himself (met him in a restaurant in LA, ended up drinking mojitos with him for two hours), back when they changed actor to Daniel Craig.

He claimed coming up with it & approaching the brocollis to suggest the opening of Casino Royale should be him (beat up) & Craig in M's office & she retires him & makes Craig (who would have been in training) James Bond.

Mister Jingles · 04-08-2012 12:54am

I would consider Craig as probably one of the best Bonds on or least on par with Connery. He was 100% in Casino Royal and even made a better impression then Brosnan in Goldeneye for a first movie.

Moore should of surrendering his license to kill after he made Moonraker, saying that though Octopussy was probably one of his best and is up there with the best Bond films.

I too would of liking to see Dalton in a few more films and he probably would of doing at least one more if there was those MGM and UA issues in the early 90s.

MisterAnarchy · 04-08-2012 2:16am

Paudie223 wrote: »

I have read about 6 or 7 of Fleming's Bond books and Daniel Craig plays Bond as close as possible to character in the books. He may not have black hair but to be honest that doesn't matter. He's tough and slick at the same time.

I have read most of the novels and Dalton is a far better representation of Fleming's Bond.
He is a tough merciless super spy who still could be super suave.
He was dark, he was ruthless, and he managed to show precisely what Bond was all about: a merciless, calculating, professional assassin. He was also good looking and charismatic.
Craig is not good looking or charismatic.
Dalton was cool,he had that glint in his eye ,I dont see that with Craig ,all is see is testosterone .
Craig's Bond is too physical. Perhaps it was because Craig's Bond came in the same era as the very successful Jason Bourne films, but nonetheless there is such a thing as too much. Fleming's Bond wasn't like that. He wasn't in fights every hour. He also had a slim physique.
Craig has a bruiser quality, a churlishness, a chip on shoulder thing going on that is not a trait of Bond in the books. The villains might have a chip on their shoulder, but Bond rarely did.

Paudie223 wrote: »

I for one am very happy with the direction Bond has taken, Casino Royale was very true to the book. They have had to go with more realistic scripts as the camp feel that the older movies had was simply not going to draw the crowds any more.

They have made Bond grittier, darker and less jokey.
Ironically, the very characteristics that got Dalton slammed are the very same things that people are praising Daniel Craig for.:rolleyes:

krudler wrote: »

Especially in his later movies where he's waayyy older than the Bond girls and it looks creepy.

Moore actually wanted to stop doing Bond long before he finished but the producers kept on postponing his replacement.He was 57 when he finished .
He stated A View to a Kill as his least favourite film and mentioned that he was mortified to find out that he was older than his female co-star's mother.

Another Dalton fan here, Licence To Kill is one of the most underrated Bonds imo. Him being a cold hearted bastard and going rogue 20 years before Casino Royale.

The fact that Bond had gone rogue 20 years before Casino Royale seems to have been lost on many people.
Daltons Bond was ahead of its time.

OldeCinemaSoz · 04-08-2012 9:46pm

moonraker was on itv dis afternoon...

it didn't look as nice as the version rte 2
showed a couple of weeks ago...

:eek:

bnt · 04-08-2012 9:55pm

al28283 wrote: »

I heard a cool theory a while ago that the name James Bond is also a codename, just like 007, and that each new actor is actually playing a different guy who takes on the name and identity of Bond as his cover.

A bit like Doctor Who, then? :pac:

re Brosnan: he was offered the Bond role several years before he took it, because Dalton was unavailable, but he was locked in a contract for Remington Steele. Here's what he reportedly said about George Lazenby and other Bonds:

George is just an angry, old, pissed-off guy. He was never an actor, but some pissed-off Aussie who doesn't know how to show his feminine side. I met him, and he's got that kind of brittle edge to him.
...
George seems to be an unhappy camper about Bond. He gets pissy and spits the dummy out. Tim was fantastic. He really had the balls to go out there and play it on the nose - Ian Fleming undiluted. But where were the laughs? Sean was brilliant, he played it dead on the money. And Roger really made it his own and went for the laughs. I think those two were the best.

:rolleyes:

Hande hoche! · 04-08-2012 11:35pm

bnt wrote: »

A bit like Doctor Who, then? :pac:

re Brosnan: he was offered the Bond role several years before he took it, because Dalton was unavailable, but he was locked in a contract for Remington Steele. Here's what he reportedly said about George Lazenby and other Bonds:
:rolleyes:

Have you got a link for that? Seems suspect, any time I have seen/read Bond actors taking about their predecessors/replacements it's been very respectful.

bnt · 05-08-2012 12:15am

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Have you got a link for that? Seems suspect, any time I have seen/read Bond actors taking about their predecessors/replacements it's been very respectful.

It's all in his Bio on IMDB.

Paudie223 · 07-08-2012 5:14pm

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I have read most of the novels and Dalton is a far better representation of Fleming's Bond.
He is a tough merciless super spy who still could be super suave.
He was dark, he was ruthless, and he managed to show precisely what Bond was all about: a merciless, calculating, professional assassin. He was also good looking and charismatic.
Craig is not good looking or charismatic.
Dalton was cool,he had that glint in his eye ,I dont see that with Craig ,all is see is testosterone .
Craig's Bond is too physical. Perhaps it was because Craig's Bond came in the same era as the very successful Jason Bourne films, but nonetheless there is such a thing as too much. Fleming's Bond wasn't like that. He wasn't in fights every hour. He also had a slim physique.
Craig has a bruiser quality, a churlishness, a chip on shoulder thing going on that is not a trait of Bond in the books. The villains might have a chip on their shoulder, but Bond rarely did.

They have made Bond grittier, darker and less jokey.
Ironically, the very characteristics that got Dalton slammed are the very same things that people are praising Daniel Craig for.:rolleyes:

The fact that Bond had gone rogue 20 years before Casino Royale seems to have been lost on many people.
Daltons Bond was ahead of its time.

You are obviously a Dalton fan. He did also play the character very close but I felt that he actually lacked some charisma a little bit wooden or something, once again if given better scripts he could have done more. Bond and the 80s didn't go well together. The physicality of recent movies has been in response to the Bourne films, I think for Skyfall there will be more Classic Bond elements than the previous film, its all about the script and where they are willing to go with it.

I met Dalton once in an airport back in 1995. Very tall man, I'm about 6'2 and he was definitely was a couple of inches taller than me.

MisterAnarchy · 07-08-2012 7:36pm

Paudie223 wrote: »

You are obviously a Dalton fan. He did also play the character very close but I felt that he actually lacked some charisma a little bit wooden or something, once again if given better scripts he could have done more.

Yes I liked Dalton but I also enjoyed Connery,Moore and Brosnan in
his earlier films (before he started hamming it up).
They all brought something to the character.

I just dont like Craig.
He was promising in Layer Cake ,I thought he's be a good Bond but he is far too wooden .

Bond and the 80s didn't go well together.

Thats true it was a tough time with Aids being rampant and Bond's promiscuous ways being frowned upon.
I was surprised to see that the Living Daylights did gross more than Lethal Weapon and Die Hard which were released the same year.

I think for Skyfall there will be more Classic Bond elements than the previous film, its all about the script and where they are willing to go with it.

Hopefully the script will improve but I dont think Purvis and Wade have it in them,they are poor writers.

I met Dalton once in an airport back in 1995. Very tall man, I'm about 6'2 and he was definitely was a couple of inches taller than me.

Cool,I didnt realise he was that tall, only looks about 6ft .

Sleepy · 10-08-2012 2:10am

I think that rather than being wooden, Dalton got the publicly educated "English reserve" part of Bond on the money.

OU812 · 10-08-2012 9:47am

Dalton was awesome. A totally chilling cold hearted killer who'd kill you, stash your body under the bed, then f your wife on it.

Paudie223 · 12-09-2012 11:54am

News is out that Skyfall is going be about 2hrs and 25 minutes in duration. Roughly the same running time as Casino Royale and much longer than QOS. Not 100% confirmed mind you.

Bond 23 - "Skyfall" *spoilers from post 595*

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Bond 23 - "Skyfall" spoilers from post 595