Legalize Cannabis Ireland

blatantrereg · 04-09-2012 12:25pm

Decriminalisation of possession and use is probably a good thing. People who develop problems stemming from its use are more likely to seek treatment and help. Putting drug abuse in the context of healthcare not justice has been demonstrably effective in other countries.

Legalisation of its sale and supply might plausibly take the business out of the hands of gangs and terrorists. However it would also make it easier to attain and potentially increase use (and abuse). I dont agree with the argument that it would increase tourism. It would deter a lot of the current types who holiday in Ireland, and attract undesirables.

I think the best thing they could do about it is to improve education about it. There are a lot of misguided perceptions on both sides of the issue. Exagerating negative effects of it is hugely counter-productive. Once people see users functioning just fine, they tend to dismiss all concerns about it. They might even glorify its use (like the OP is).

Aganica · 04-09-2012 12:27pm

srsly78 wrote: »

Because of the huge amount of money wasted on enforcing a pointless law.

and unenforced and unenforceable laws bring the law itself into disrepute.

In 2011 there were 17000+ recorded drug offenses in the state. The vast majority, 12000+ , Where for simple possession for personal use alone!!

Prohibition has destroyed more lives then the drugs have

Yet again Ireland fails to care for its most vulnerable citizens

srsly78 · 04-09-2012 12:29pm

Aganica wrote: »

and unenforced and unenforceable laws bring the law itself into disrepute.

In 2011 there were 17000+ recorded drug offenses in the state. The vast majority, 12000+ , Where for simple possession for personal use alone!!

Prohibition has destroyed more lives then the drugs have

Yet again Ireland fails to care for its most vulnerable citizens

Yep. Consider that in Germany, in many states the law specifically disallows prosecution for small personal amounts. They don't want to waste their time with petty stuff. However in other states (hi bavaria) they are pretty strict

Andy-Pandy · 04-09-2012 12:30pm

BUBBLE WRAP · 04-09-2012 12:33pm

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

.

Good point, I agree.

mikom · 04-09-2012 12:43pm

TheDoc wrote: »

I think the Anti side is pretty strong.

The most potent point I see, and am interested in how it would operate in the work place.

I worked in a call centre where the intake of Cannabis was extremely high by staff outside of work hours, but on some occasions during work hours. While obviously I couldn't link it directly, it was evident from stats on performance from within my team, the guys I knew on Cannabis performed significantly worse then those who didn't. There is nothing really to draw from that directly.

Since moving to a more formal workplace, dealing with high profile clients with complex products and business scenarios, there is really no room for laxadasical thinking, behaviour or decision making. Our most recent team member was a very avid cannabis smoker and like many here, championed the cause of legalisation. His decision making and job performance was extremely poor and was soon terminated from his position.

There are numerous studies out there, and I couldn't be ****ed linking them, a google search will suffice for anyone interested. But as the poster on the first page outlined, there is some serious questions that need to be answered in relation to employment and the workplace. I think its nievity and shouting lalalala denying there the drug has an impact on a persons mental capacity to operate. I've had enough experience in working life to draft the opinion that Cannabis users performance, capacity for workload and decision making is poorer then someone who does not use the drug.

And then finally there is just the snobby element I'd like to upload. Simply put I would not want to have or see that ****e being smoked in public or commercial properties in street view. I wouldn't mind if its within someones private property, but I'd prefer not to turn into Amsertdam which to anyone who doesn't like a bit of smoke, is a ****ing dump...

And its a mute point outlining that " o no one is saying kids should take it or teens, for adults only" will you come outside of your little bubble and cop on. So not only would we have teens lashing cans in on a Friday night and locked, but now they will be smoking joints aswell? Our A&E are at breaking point already, we don't need more pressure thanks. It is a mute point arguing the case of adults only, if it becomes legal for adults, bet your bollox teens will get their hands on it ( as they already do in fairness, illegally albeit). So now instead of being asked to buy Cans or Smokes, I'm going to be asked to pick up a bit of weed aswell.

Sorry there is more important things in this country to worry about then to legalise an illegal drug, this one needs to be put on the back burner for a few decades. And considering this government, nor any current political party can make the tough decisions that will bring us someway back on track, how the **** do you see them legalising Cannabis?

Moot.

Signed
A partaker.

Gbear · 04-09-2012 12:44pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

yes it is or would you rather they dont arrest thieves, rapists, ect.

All right I'll qualify what I said:

It isn't the governments business interfering with people's lives so long as they're not doing anyone else any harm.

The only person directly harmed by the consumption of drugs like Cannabis or Heroin are the user themselves.
Cigarettes directly harm other people with second hand smoke which is why their use should be restricted.

Father Damo · 04-09-2012 12:47pm

peternel wrote: »

the Ignorant people, should watch, The True History of Marajuana, wow this is mind blowing, and there`s a lot more documentary`s like this, National Geographic have a good one, this will STOP your ignorance and you will discover that its the greedy yanks and there Illuminati,[/quote#

A belief in illuminati conspiracy theories clearly shows that the ganj is causing you to have paranoid delusions of imaginary bogeymen tbh.

, Marajuana has never killed any one not in the 10 thousand years that we know off,

This old chestnut

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/content_objectid=13836296_method=full_siteid=50082_headline=-Cannabis-poisoning-kills-Welsh-addict-name_page.html

It is pretty rare but it is still bollocks.

Boombastic · 04-09-2012 12:50pm

He said, "A lot of things can harm and even kill in the right quantities. I recall a man who ate two packets of regular tobacco and that almost killed him.

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/content_objectid=13836296_method=full_siteid=50082_headline=-Cannabis-poisoning-kills-Welsh-addict-name_page.html#ixzz25V7e6H3q

OK:pac:

srsly78 · 04-09-2012 12:51pm

Father Damo wrote: »

This old chestnut

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/content_objectid=13836296_method=full_siteid=50082_headline=-Cannabis-poisoning-kills-Welsh-addict-name_page.html

It is pretty rare but it is still bollocks.

"Wales Online" is hardly a reputable scientific publication. Pretty much every study ever done contradicts it.

OnTheCounter · 04-09-2012 12:52pm

Gbear wrote: »

All right I'll qualify what I said:

It isn't the governments business interfering with people's lives so long as they're not doing anyone else any harm.

The only person directly harmed by the consumption of drugs like Cannabis or Heroin are the user themselves.
Cigarettes directly harm other people with second hand smoke which is why their use should be restricted.

explain your theory to someone who has been robbed by a junkie because they can no longer be a productive member of society due to herion usage so resort to robbery to feed their habit.

Explain your theory to innocent victims of violence caught in the middle of feuding drug gangs over territory. Was the fella shot in the legs with the ira man a couple of days ago an innocent victim?

think of the big picture.

srsly78 · 04-09-2012 12:54pm

The big picture is thus: If you decriminalise drugs and treat addicts, you will end up with less addicts and less health problems and crime. This is what happened in Portugal, despite all the prohibitionist doomsaying.

Gbear · 04-09-2012 1:02pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

explain your theory to someone who has been robbed by a junkie because they can no longer be a productive member of society due to herion usage so resort to robbery to feed their habit.

Explain your theory to innocent victims of violence caught in the middle of feuding drug gangs over territory. Was the fella shot in the legs with the ira man a couple of days ago an innocent victim?

think of the big picture.

For starters, there are no more feuding drug gangs if drugs production is no longer a criminal activity.
The banning of alcohol gave organised crime a huge leg up in the US during prohibition and have you noticed how they're not involved in that business since prohibition ended?
Have you ever seen Smirnoff and Hussar involved in pitched battles?

If you rob someone it doesn't matter a **** whether you're a junkie or not.
When you decide to consume a substance that you know affects your judgement you're culpable of the actions you take part in, whether that's currently enshrined in law or not.

The fact of the matter is that most people don't do stupid dangerous things and even fewer do them to excess.
Having drug rehabilitation clinics, needle exchanges, counselling and other medical facilities paid for by the tax intake would make life better for people with addictions, in addition to the lowered costs and reduced stigma.

Ultimately if people are ****ups, they'll **** themselves up one way or another. Additionally burdening them with the stigma and legal ramifications of criminalising drug use doesn't improve their chances.

TheDoc · 04-09-2012 1:28pm

mikom wrote: »

Moot.

Signed
A partaker.

Kudos,

Let me know how legalising Cannabis goes

Ash.J.Williams · 04-09-2012 1:29pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

incorrect. Criminals in the drug trade make the vast majority of their money from coke and we would give them more tourists to sell coke to by legalising weed.

Do you not realise the vast majority of coke in Ireland is routed through holland. Its not a coincidence!

the coke trade is not what it used to be

and as for the mention of "coincidence" .....Rotterdam is quite a big port you know? most items shipped to ireland go through holland

mikom · 04-09-2012 1:41pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Kudos,

That was brave...

Are you sure you didn't mean Ludos? :pac:

peternel · 04-09-2012 2:46pm

Switzerland you are allowed 4 Plants

peternel · 04-09-2012 2:55pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Based on what year?

Its estimated only 30% of the Portuguese population have healthcare cover...
The average spending per person is about 40% cheaper, allowing better frontline services before people get to a hospital.

There is nothing that links the decriminalisation of drugs to a drop in Hospital stats.

When you compare it to Netherlands however, their average spending per person is DOUBLE what we have. Again nothing directly linking, but sure if we are just idly speculating **** might aswell through that out there.

we just listen to the Portuguese government and police tell us on documentaries, and they tell us its working,

peternel · 04-09-2012 3:12pm

crazy cabbage wrote: »

There is loads of good documentrys out there.

The Union
BC's illegal marijuana trade industry has evolved into a business giant, dubbed by some involved as 'The Union', Commanding upwards of $7 billion Canadian annually. With up to 85% of 'BC Bud' being exported to the United States, the trade has become an international issue. Follow filmmaker Adam Scorgie as he demystifies the underground market and brings to light how an industry can function while remaining illegal. Through growers, police officers, criminologists, economists, doctors, politicians and pop culture icons, Scorgie examines the cause and effect nature of the business - an industry that may be profiting more by being illegal

Super High Me
Stand up comedian and marijuana user Doug Benson documents thirty days of pot free living and thirty days of non-stop use to compare the effects of both.

In Pot we Trust
Documentary examining the cases of five chronically ill people who have been prescribed medical marijuana as part of their treatment.

American Drug War-The Last White Hope (havent watched this but heard it was good
The War on Drugs has become the longest and most costly war in American history, the question has become, how much more can the country endure? Inspired by the death of four family members from "legal drugs" Texas filmmaker Kevin Booth sets out to discover why the Drug War has become such a big failure. Three and a half years in the making the film follows gang members, former DEA agents, CIA officers, narcotics officers, judges, politicians, prisoners and celebrities. Most notably the film befriends Freeway Ricky Ross; the man many accuse for starting the Crack epidemic, who after being arrested discovered that his cocaine source had been working for the CIA. AMERICAN DRUG WAR shows how money, power and greed have corrupted not just dope fiends but an entire government. More importantly, it shows what can be done about it. This is not some 'pro-drug' stoner film, but a collection of expert testimonials from the ground troops on the front lines of the drug war, the ones who are fighting it and the ones who are living it.

stoned in suburbia
Stoned In Suburbia is a social history film, examining the change in people's opinions to cannabis over the past 50 years. Discussing the impact of the 60's sexual revolution, the Hippie movement, the emergence of the Punks right up until the modern day.

These are just a few that i can think of. I know the first comment will be 'oooo but you are pro-weed so you will just post links to documentrys that promote that messege' but that isn't the case. These are good informative videos (and often funny). Take from it what you will.

Thank you

OnTheCounter · 04-09-2012 5:43pm

Gbear wrote: »

For starters, there are no more feuding drug gangs if drugs production is no longer a criminal activity.
The banning of alcohol gave organised crime a huge leg up in the US during prohibition and have you noticed how they're not involved in that business since prohibition ended?
Have you ever seen Smirnoff and Hussar involved in pitched battles?

If you rob someone it doesn't matter a **** whether you're a junkie or not.
When you decide to consume a substance that you know affects your judgement you're culpable of the actions you take part in, whether that's currently enshrined in law or not.

The fact of the matter is that most people don't do stupid dangerous things and even fewer do them to excess.
Having drug rehabilitation clinics, needle exchanges, counselling and other medical facilities paid for by the tax intake would make life better for people with addictions, in addition to the lowered costs and reduced stigma.

Ultimately if people are ****ups, they'll **** themselves up one way or another. Additionally burdening them with the stigma and legal ramifications of criminalising drug use doesn't improve their chances.

there are over 15 drug treatment/rehabilition centers in Dublin 1 alone.

Millions is spent each year on drug treatment.

Even with this drugs is a major problem.

How is making access to drugs easier to people who dont know a dealer going to reduce the problem?

Im willing to listen to your pov but i suspect that the extent of your experience is seeing a junkie on the street and smoking a joint with your mates.

OnTheCounter · 04-09-2012 6:07pm

The main reason given by the Dutch government for making the coffee shops Dutch resident member only clubs is that the coffee shops promote crime, but ignore the cash strapped government forgoing tax revenue and who have all the stats.

show me some obscure study that shows how legal weed makes the world a better place.

fcuking sheltered ignorant arts students.

Boombastic · 04-09-2012 6:17pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

The main reason given by the Dutch government for making the coffee shops Dutch resident member only clubs is that the coffee shops promote crime, but ignore the cash strapped government forgoing tax revenue and who have all the stats.

show me some obscure study that shows how legal weed makes the world a better place.

fcuking sheltered ignorant arts students.

Any links for this being the main reason?

ScumLord · 04-09-2012 6:29pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

there are over 15 drug treatment/rehabilition centers in Dublin 1 alone.

Millions is spent each year on drug treatment.

Even with this drugs is a major problem.

How is making access to drugs easier to people who dont know a dealer going to reduce the problem?

Im willing to listen to your pov but i suspect that the extent of your experience is seeing a junkie on the street and smoking a joint with your mates.

It's not the same thing at all really. Those addicts are still outside normal society, they may make it through treatment only to go back to the same neighbourhood with the same stresses that made them turn to drug abuse in the first place. A legalised system would put an end to the addicts relationship with people that are only abusing their need for drugs for their own personal financial gain. The problem is organised crime, drug use has been common throughout the history of the human race. We now know how to deal with addiction but we have no hope of dealing with organised crime.

I've been smoking for more than 10 years, I have yet to develop any of these mythical problems and I've never been out of employment. How could I afford good drugs without a job?

mikom · 04-09-2012 6:34pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

fcuking sheltered ignorant arts students.

A bit abusive there......... and I not even an art student.

Boombastic · 04-09-2012 6:36pm

Let me explain it to you through interpretative dance :pac:

Stabshauptmann · 04-09-2012 6:38pm

LCIMayo wrote: »

With the massive success of this years Cork Legalize march

They legalised Cannabis in Cork?

OnTheCounter · 04-09-2012 7:05pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the coke trade is not what it used to be

and as for the mention of "coincidence" .....Rotterdam is quite a big port you know? most items shipped to ireland go through holland

the reason consumption has decreased is almost entirely down to the recession. Coke is too expensive a hobby for someone on the dole. When the economy picks up coke consumption will increase.

Gbear · 04-09-2012 7:18pm

OnTheCounter wrote: »

there are over 15 drug treatment/rehabilition centers in Dublin 1 alone.

Millions is spent each year on drug treatment.

Even with this drugs is a major problem.

How is making access to drugs easier to people who dont know a dealer going to reduce the problem?

Im willing to listen to your pov but i suspect that the extent of your experience is seeing a junkie on the street and smoking a joint with your mates.

For starters, I don't actually care what effects drugs have on society. It doesn't matter a **** to me. I don't think it's the governments place to tell me or anyone else what they should consume and to determine how you should look after your health.
As far as I know there are no laws preventing me from ingesting a load of knives - why? Because I'm an adult and don't need to be told that it's not a good idea. If I really want to do it I'm the one who's health is at stake - not the public's and not the government's.

Incidentally, I don't use drugs of any kind apart from alcohol and I use that infrequently. My only stake in this problem is about the waste of police resources and money in general and really hating bull**** and unjust and anachronistic laws.

To answer your question directly, perhaps more generally as a question of what is better for health - mental, physical, financial etc - stopping the stigma and banning of drugs and just treating them like any other product which fulfills a demand in the market would lead to a better quality of drug, lower prices (even with hefty taxes), the whole drug economy being removed from the black market into the actual market and freeing up Garda resources.

Much the same as rates of abortion being higher in US states where it's illegal, I don't think that the usage of drugs has much to do with it's illegality. Whether use increases or decreases as a direct result of the legality of drugs I don't think that there would be a whole lot of difference.

I think wealth and more importantly education are the biggest determining factors in how people best act in their self-interest.
I think that people should be free to pursue that in whatever way they wish.
I think we'd be better off better equipping people to effectively make those decisions for themselves than jumping on every "social ill", real or imagined, that pop's up.
That society isn't perfect and some people choose paths that you don't agree with isn't a reason to take their autonomy away - even if you can empirically show that they're miserable should say nothing about whether I or others should be able to make the decision for ourselves, rather than giving it to the state to make upon our behalf.

OnTheCounter · 04-09-2012 7:19pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not the same thing at all really. Those addicts are still outside normal society, they may make it through treatment only to go back to the same neighbourhood with the same stresses that made them turn to drug abuse in the first place. A legalised system would put an end to the addicts relationship with people that are only abusing their need for drugs for their own personal financial gain. The problem is organised crime, drug use has been common throughout the history of the human race. We now know how to deal with addiction but we have no hope of dealing with organised crime.

I've been smoking for more than 10 years, I have yet to develop any of these mythical problems and I've never been out of employment. How could I afford good drugs without a job?

i also smoke a bit of weed every now and again, am college educated and productive.

Yes I realise I am supporting criminals by purchasing weed.

The difference is I have first hand experience of liv4 among the people in society that would be negatively affected by legal drugs and can see exactly how a harmless coffee shop selling joints/muffins can lead to growth in other criminal enterprises.

The majority of the pro legalisation crowd dont think further than who the fcuk do the government think they are. Weed is harmless.

Idiots are usually the loudest people in the room and the stats they use can be manipulated and only tell a small part of the story.

I would be in favour of decriminalising possession of a very tiny bit of weed but not the sale or consumption in a public place. Basically to protect young people from getting a charge.

if you want to smoke do it in your own home.

Boombastic · 04-09-2012 7:20pm

Teenagers in Ireland smoke more cannabis than their Dutch counterparts, there is a report floating around here somewhere on that

Legalize Cannabis Ireland

Comments