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Windows 8 Metro: The fall of windows or the best invention ever

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    #422
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Good News

    Metro is gone :)

    Bad News

    It's only a name change :pac:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19108952


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    #423
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Their new Outlook.com webmail is also live. Now's your chance to register that new address to replace the Hotmail one you got stuck with :)


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    #424
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Windows 8 may not let you boot to the desktop, demands you accept not-Metro

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/06/windows-8-may-not-let-you-boot-to-the-desktop/

    *facepalm*

    Worse and worse it gets.


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    #425
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    Another problem of mine right now with Windows 8 is the bootloader - went for a dual boot with Windows 7 there last night to give it a proper trial run.. Computer now loads up everything Windows 8 related by the looks of it and then gives the screen for choosing which OS you want to use - it it a very nice looking screen I'll give it that, clearly touch screen orientated but anyway, but if I choose Windows 7 the computer basically has to go back to square one and do a complete reboot :mad:

    It's now taking me twice as long to log into Windows 7 than it did before this as I basically have to load up Windows 8 before being allowed to choose Windows 7 which then needs a full boot.. absolute pain so it is

    After you load up Windows 7 you should notice it uses Windows 7 's boot loader instead. It only seems to use the new one if Windows 8 is the first on your list.


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    #426
    Schorpio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    I have had the release preview installed for a few days now on my main laptop so I taught I'd share my thoughts so far on Metro (or whatever it'll end up being called).

    I don't hate Metro, but I don't really like it either. Making all Microsoft devices look and feel the same is all well and good in theory, but on the PC the execution is poor. Metro makes sense on Xbox; those big chunky tiles are easy to see when you're sitting far away, and easy to navigate around using just a controller. Metro also makes sense on phones and tablets; the tiles look pretty and they are big enough to stab at accurately with your chubby fingers. But the simple fact is 99% of PC users are sitting inches from their screens, and the humble compute mouse is a good deal more accurate than your finger. Those big tiles are just a waste of screen space imo. I never stared at my 7 desktop and wished the icons were a good deal bigger. Navigation is also just not intuitive. The environment feels like it was designed exclusively to be touched and the mouse was thrown in as an afterthought. Microsoft seems to be trying to make it's PC's more like it's tablets. I would have thought they should be doing it the other way round considering their dominance of the PC market.

    When you boot the PC, it boots straight into the Metro interface. You actually have to launch the desktop (!) like an app. It's only after launching the desktop that you can switch between the two using the Windows key. This may sound like a small annoyance on the grand scale, but it's the small touches that make or break an OS.

    The Metro interface feels on the whole like an unhappy marriage between the start menu and the desktop. Having used it for a few days, I don't feel like it's an adequate replacement for either. MS not including an option for an old style Start menu is madness imo. Despite my criticism though, I do like the idea of including Metro with Windows 8.....but only as an option. If I had a traditional Start menu, but could access Metro by pressing Windows+M (or something) then I'd be happy. The idea of trying out apps on my PC, or automatically syncing Metro between my tablet and my PC is an alluring prospect. But forcing Metro the way they currently are is a bad thing imo. It's just not intuitive enough for primary use on a PC and some of the included apps are pointless. I really don't need a photo, video, news or weather app. These are PC's remember. I can get XBMC or similar and I have a full featured web browser and RSS reader.

    There are some good elements to 8 though, especially some of the tweaks to Explorer, and on the whole the OS does seem as fast as 7 on my 4 year old laptop and it seems extremely stable. However, that said - I can see myself reverting back to 7 soon.


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    #427
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I think Schorpio sums up pretty much what will be the average user's experience of Win 8 on a desktop - an unhappy marriage of 2 interfaces, neither of which work well enough to replace what's already there in Win 7

    From reading some of the feedback online it seems the hardware manufacturers aren't convinced and are taking a wait and see approach as well as a lot of negative reviews generally.

    Of course, if this starts to hit their bottom lines with slow PC/notebook sales between now and Christmas I think that's when the backlash will force MS to act and give back what never should have been taken away - a usable desktop interface.

    If they do that then I'm all for Win 8 - if the software companies get on board too - but a faster boot time isn't enough to make me ditch my (pretty snappy anyway) Win 7 setup for now at least.


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    #428
    Gonzovision
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzovision


    A lot of the issues around Windows 8 and the Metro interface have already been covered here, so I'll just add some extras without treading over old ground.

    While using a dual screen setup and watching videos through the default media player app, clicking on the other monitor actually causes the video to close down.

    Similarly it is impossible to open two instances on metro. So if an app is open on one monitor, you can't have any metro apps open on the other, trying to do so will cause the previous instance to revert to the desktop.

    Multitasking eh? :pac:


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    #429
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    There's a program that you can use to make a USB key bootable. That might be an option if you have USB ports?

    Link to CNET download
    Thanks btw that worked. 1 USB port. In fact theres a whole windows support page just for my model, because it was one of the headlining SKUs from the CES Expo 2012, so there was actually perfect step-by-step documentation on my specific model and how to install windows on it.


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    #430
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    Upgraded last night from RC to RTM. Minor changes but were they matter... The whole install process is really slick, it will install direct from an image (no need for CD or USB) and has lots of interaction improvements around the edge menus which is a god send for people with two monitors.

    I was also able to change my old Windows Live account to use my new email address as opposed to the one I signed up with which was nice. Lots of the Microsoft sites like Sky Drive or Outlook look different in Windows 8, they look like apps even though they are in the browser... It makes the whole experience very fluid.

    On SkyDrive, I was able to download the desktop app which gives you your actual folder structure, I threw a load of music into a music folder under the skydrive folder and added it to the music library. The music app picked up all the music straight away. In the end I made duplicates of all my personal folders (Docs, Pics, etc, etc) and added them to their respective lib, everything is now synced to skydrive...

    Lots of new customisable options for the start screen, it behaves better for two monitors and there are more settings for your account, including setting up an account wide pin for easy access. All MS apps auto detect your account and sign you in silently.

    Windows Defender now has a virus checker and when you install a new app that can handle files the system asks do you want to make it the main app for that file type, nice feature. StandBy now works and doesn't take 40 mins to revive, this is the first windows OS I have ever used standby on.

    Still not a lot of apps, but it is only day two I suppose, Bing app is really nice, I'd love to see Google match it. No compat issues yet and all my hardware was picked up correctly which is nice. (Some extra keyboard buttons didnt work in the RC like volume, marco keys).

    All in all if you get over the QQing and embrace the fact that they have just added a really slick launcher and the ability to have a different type of app I think you will be really happy with it. It's not as drastic as it is being made out and the integration features more than make up for the initial learning curve.


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    #431
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Gizmodo did a good write up:

    http://gizmodo.com/5934932/windows-8-review-incredibly-innovative-incredibly-important-not-quite-incredible


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    #432
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    fionny wrote: »
    Gizmodo did a good write up:

    http://gizmodo.com/5934932/windows-8-review-incredibly-innovative-incredibly-important-not-quite-incredible

    I really like that review, very balanced.... Understands the needs of different users and doesn't sugar coat... Impressive.


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    #433
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    I must admit im tempted to install it for another try, the dual monitor thing appeals to me. But I can be sure enough id not be using metro apps!


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    #434
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    fionny wrote: »
    Gizmodo did a good write up:

    http://gizmodo.com/5934932/windows-8-review-incredibly-innovative-incredibly-important-not-quite-incredible

    That read like the author was paid a fat wad of cash for the write-up:
    If you don't like using Metro, you really don't have to beyond landing in the tile screen when you boot up; you can think of it as a big, stylish app drawer.

    That's the point where I think I'll wait for someone less gushy and more interested in the actual technology at hand to talk about it, I think.


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    #435
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    Fysh wrote: »
    ... Snip ...
    That's the point where I think I'll wait for someone less gushy and more interested in the actual technology at hand to talk about it, I think.

    Is that direct at me or the author?


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    #436
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Dean_Mc wrote: »
    Is that direct at me or the author?

    It wasn't a dig at you, just a comment on the author of the gizmodo piece.

    I got as far as the line I quoted (which made me want to ding him/her around the back of the head while shouting "My Windows-based desktop runs fully-fledged software, you bellend, not some stupid bloody apps designed for a phone! Shove your 'stylish app drawer' up your hole!") and decided I had no further interest in reading the author's opinion.


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    #437
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    Fysh wrote: »
    It wasn't a dig at you, just a comment on the author of the gizmodo piece.

    I got as far as the line I quoted (which made me want to ding him/her around the back of the head while shouting "My Windows-based desktop runs fully-fledged software, you bellend, not some stupid bloody apps designed for a phone! Shove your 'stylish app drawer' up your hole!") and decided I had no further interest in reading the author's opinion.

    Read further on, The first part is admittedly drivel but the second half raises valid concerns and suggestions as what needs to come to make it better.


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    #438
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    People just don't think the interface works well outside of a tablet or other touch screen device.

    Actually Win 8 on a touch screen monitor is a pain in the ass. The problem is that is was designed for tablets with phyiscal buttons as oppose to just touch screen devices. So once you are in an app there is no way of getting out of it without using your keyboard. (this may have been rectified in the final release though)


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    #439
    Dean_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Dean_Mc


    justsomebloke wrote: »
    Actually Win 8 on a touch screen monitor is a pain in the ass. The problem is that is was designed for tablets with phyiscal buttons as oppose to just touch screen devices. So once you are in an app there is no way of getting out of it without using your keyboard. (this may have been rectified in the final release though)

    This has to do with your driver, it is expecting you to swipe in from the edge but I would imagine there is no such gesture for your monitor.


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    #440
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    With a mouse at least if you hover in the top left corner it brings up the task switcher, I'd guess if you press+hold on a monitor it does the same thing. Also, can't you press+hold the bottom left corner to bring up the start screen?


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    #441
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Installed this afternoon on my media PC. I've been using Metro on WP7 for over a year and I really liked it as an interface so I thought that this should a decent experience.

    But Windows 8? I'm not too worried that it's not very stable, microsoft have a history of releasing unstable platforms and fixing as they go. This is the first time that they've relased an OS that is completely schizo. I wanted two unrelated OS's I'd just dual boot :pac:

    Worryingly for a Media PC, I'm finding there is no way that I'd use either of the XBOX refugee apps for music and video, even if they were working

    And srsly, denying me access to kill explorer through task manager when it keels over? You gotta be kidding


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    #442
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Fysh wrote: »
    It wasn't a dig at you, just a comment on the author of the gizmodo piece.

    I got as far as the line I quoted (which made me want to ding him/her around the back of the head while shouting "My Windows-based desktop runs fully-fledged software, you bellend, not some stupid bloody apps designed for a phone! Shove your 'stylish app drawer' up your hole!") and decided I had no further interest in reading the author's opinion.

    Calibrating your touch screen monitor in Windows 8:

    Touch screen to begin calibration.

    *Touches screen*

    Screen is calibrated. Press enter to exit.

    ?


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    #443
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I noticed from the minimum system requirements that PAE, NX/XD and SSE2 are mandatory for Windows 8. While most processors since the Pentium 4 support PAE and SSE2 (except the Banias Pentium M which has no PAE), NX/XD was only implemented with the release of Socket 754 AMD64 processors and some Prescott Pentium 4s - so most P4s and all Socket A AMDs are out.

    Also, many modern motherboards (ASRock in particular) ship with NX/XD disabled in the BIOS/UEFI by default. That could prove interesting.


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    #444
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    OK so to be fair, I installed the RTM version on a physical laptop this morning and have been playing with it for a few hours trying to give it a chance

    So what have I noticed since the RC...

    - Well it says "Hi" to me now and then tells me about pointing into corners to make the menus come up (about time really)

    - The screen fades between different colors now while it finishes setup

    - Start screen is still as it was.. pointlessly wasting screen real estate with huge color blocks.

    - I see they didn't fix that little "feature" either where when in Desktop mode/app? you move the mouse to the bottom left of the screen and the Start screen preview pops up - so you instinctively move to that and it disappears :rolleyes:

    - Why can't we just X out of "apps" anymore?? Why are these things full screen? I LIKE having a 23" screen I can fit lots of things on at once. I have an even bigger display at home and that would be even worse.

    - I installed Office 2013 Preview with it.. everything looks very washed out and grey. Harder to read, harder to see things at a glance etc

    - Everything seems to take an extra 2/3 steps or clicks than it does under Win 7. Eg:

    Shutdown: click the corner, click the Options, click the Shutdown icon, choose the option.
    System: Click the corner, click Settings, click Control Panel, click System (no more right-click Computer and Properties)

    Yes I know you can just use Windows key shortcuts but that defeats the whole point of having a point-and-click GUI. You have to take your hand off the mouse, press the keys, then go back to the mouse to do what you wanted to in the first place!

    Even if I HAD a touchscreen having to reach forward all the time to touch blocks, then go back to my mouse/keyboard anyway would soon become very tiring (literally) too.


    In short then, in my personal opinion, this is a disaster for anyone who wants to do any actual work on their PC. It'd be fine on a tablet or other native touchscreen device AS LONG AS you don't have to leave "I can't believe it's not Metro anymore" - once you do that (eg: Excel) it becomes incredibly annoying and frustrating when things that just "used to work" don't anymore and instead have been replaced by fancy transition effects, colored blocks displaying a whole host of trivia that I really don't want or need to see on my work laptop (or even my home laptop for that matter!), and having to jump back and forth between mouse and keyboard as well as productivity and pointless "oh isn't it pretty!" interfaces

    Call me when Metro can be completely disabled and the "classic" Win 7 Start menu has been fully restored - until then I'll stick with Win 7 thanks. If I want to "play" I have my Android Galaxy Note.


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    #445
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Everything seems to take an extra 2/3 steps or clicks than it does under Win 7.
    For me this is the defining characteristic of every major new windows version ever


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    #446
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Why can't we just X out of "apps" anymore?? Why are these things full screen? I LIKE having a 23" screen I can fit lots of things on at once. I have an even bigger display at home and that would be even worse.

    Microsoft are saying that they did a lot of research into how people are using Windows to drive these changes ....

    dilbert_marketing_pic1.gif


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    #447
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Bambi wrote: »
    Microsoft are saying that they did a lot of research into how people are using Windows to drive these changes ....

    dilbert_marketing_pic1.gif

    Yea, and mistakenly they've asked the Windows-Mobile marketing department to do the customer survey. :D


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    #448
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    For me this is the defining characteristic of every major new windows version ever

    Case in point... to check the LAN link speed and Wi-Fi strength.

    XP:
    Click the relevant network icon in the tray. (one click)

    Vista:
    Click the LAN icon in the tray, choose "Open Network and Sharing Center" and then click "View Status" (three clicks)

    7:
    Click the WLAN icon in the tray, right-click the WLAN AP and choose Status. (three clicks: two left, one right) At least it shows the signal strength at a glance though. For wired connections it's the same as Vista.


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    #449
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,047 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Everything seems to take an extra 2/3 steps or clicks than it does under Win 7.

    Not everything ;)

    Disk management is a feature I use a lot. In W8 it takes a right click with the pointer in bottom left and then just a single click (so 2 easy clicks in total)

    You tell me how many clicks it takes in W7! (hint it is 5 :D)

    Like yourself I also installed Office 2013 preview and I much prefer it to Office 2010. The smooth cell changes in Excel are sweet :)


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    #450
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    gonzovision wrote: »
    A lot of the issues around Windows 8 and the Metro interface have already been covered here, so I'll just add some extras without treading over old ground.

    While using a dual screen setup and watching videos through the default media player app, clicking on the other monitor actually causes the video to close down.

    Similarly it is impossible to open two instances on metro. So if an app is open on one monitor, you can't have any metro apps open on the other, trying to do so will cause the previous instance to revert to the desktop.

    Multitasking eh? :pac:

    Do you use the default MS apps in Windows 7? I know I don't.

    My Media Player is VLC for example....


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    #451
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    unkel wrote: »
    Like yourself I also installed Office 2013 preview and I much prefer it to Office 2010. The smooth cell changes in Excel are sweet :)
    You've highlighted right there what I think is the biggest problem with the new Windows/Office - the sacrifice of functionality for pretty effects (which I'd argue aren't that pretty anyway to be honest - especially in the case of I-can't-believe-it's-not-Metro-anymore)

    As I said before, core software should not be subject to the whims of what's currently "cool" (as defined by committee no doubt) in my opinion


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