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ICABS push for bill to ban hare coursing

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    #32
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Very bad mistake to do that... They dont think in instant or yearly sucess ,they measure their campaigns out in decades!!Nor do they plan on immmediate sucesses,bar maybe some spectacular event or Dail power shift like when the Greens came into power and they over egged their puddings with the stag hunting ban.:D
    It is a constant and opportunistic drip,drip,drip campaign on all fieldsports, nor just fox hunting and hare coursing,but all "animal rights" issues,and more importantly to influence and indoctrinate younger minds.

    As our pouplation starts going more urban and our fieldsports pouplation gets older,the pouplation shift will become more urban and younger,and will lose more of the reality of what rural life is all about and where their meat and milk comes from.So if they can influence future generations that all types of fieldsports or farming is cruel,you will find more kids as they grow up will subconciously slip into that way of thinking and react as adults accordingly.Why do you think they all want to get into our schools to spread around their propaganda and bile ,and are always sqwarking if NARGC or anything pro is allowed in to even up the score???

    True,we dont have to respond to every childish outburst and baby wail in the national press,but they do repersent a clear and present danger to us and deserve to be monitored...As they have brought people who are of dubious legality and have been excluded from the UK under the terrorism acts to lecture and debate in our universities,and on a memorable occasion AHS tried to get a Ex Loyalist bomb maker down for a chat in a pub in Dublin in the 1990s.:(I dont think any shooting clubs in Ireland have need to bring ex SAS men in to chat about pheasent rearing.:P

    Ask yourselves this one thing...We are always giving out about them being in the media and their side of the story is being published...Would having two "journalists" not have somthing to do with it??A fly will always recognise another fly.

    Its a long term battle for hearts and minds people,and if we dont start stepping up to the mark abit more we could be one of the last generations of Irish fieldsports men and women...Start thinking long term too,the antis certainly are.

    BTW ICABS did ask me for a donation at a street collection.....Once!:D

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #33
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Grizzly,some great points I must admit but I still believe we pay them too much heed.
    In fact I think I'm sure that there is probably some loon from ICABS monitoring our discussion right now and I suspect that their conversation is goin something like "there's one guy saying that hunters should ignore us but another guy is saying that we are here for the long haul.I knew we had them worried ,which of ye has Tierney's number so I can ring him and gloat":)


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    #34
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Just to let you know that the opposite is happening with young people as well; our local scoutsgroup recently invited the local NARGC club to come and have a talk about hunting, guns and gun safety with the Cubs. A few firearms and ammunition were on display ( with bolts removed or left broken may I add ) and some bunny ( prepared from scratch there and then including skinning and cleaning ) and pigeon were thrown on the pan. Not one single negative comment by anyone. On the contrary loads of questions and interest from kids AND parents.


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    #35
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I sincerely hope that they do Vizzy!! They might actually learn somthing,but I doubt it!!
    Or maybe they are saying.."Aww sh%te these dumb animal abusing knuckle draggers arent as dumb as we thought!!!! And whats this about subversives being involved:eek:??I thought we were supposed to be non violent and peaceful???"
    Its much better to recognise a potential threat and keep it on your radar,so you know who and what it is and how to deal with it.Than to think it is harmless and to ignore it.

    Worried??? Nah...It more like we have them worried.:p I have never met a more paranoid bunch of people.Most of them are that convinced that their computors and phones are monitored and that there is a NARGC/fox hunter/MI5/CIA /Garda man under the bed,the closet,attic, and garden and compost pile,or their houses are bugged. Proably are too..If you lie down with the dog or choose to associate with known radicals and subversives..:)

    I suppose that they think we have a big list of all of their names and addys and we will come around and do a night of the long knives on them all!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #36
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    I sincerely hope that they do Vizzy!
    They do. We show up in their newsletter from time to time.


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    #37
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    meathstevie wrote: »
    Just to let you know that the opposite is happening with young people as well; our local scoutsgroup recently invited the local NARGC club to come and have a talk about hunting, guns and gun safety with the Cubs. A few firearms and ammunition were on display ( with bolts removed or left broken may I add ) and some bunny ( prepared from scratch there and then including skinning and cleaning ) and pigeon were thrown on the pan. Not one single negative comment by anyone. On the contrary loads of questions and interest from kids AND parents.


    Good to hear that MS,and that the Scouts actually allowed it here..A fine organisation that has become so PC these days Lord Baden Powell would be turning in his grave!!:( What is a boy scout without his trusty sheath or scout knife???Now banned in most countries scouts organisations as too dangerous or warlike!!FFS 100 years ago the Boy Scouts of America drilled with single shot .22lr rifles!!Baden Powell set it up as a paramilitary unit in the first place.:rolleyes:
    Making a fire???Illegal under health and saftey rules!!Anywhere else the parents would have been horrified and dragged themselves and the little traumatised darlings off to counciling,and had their lawyers sicced on yez for emotional trauma.[Has happened in the US and UK]
    At least somone and an organisation is still doing somthing right here!!:cool:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #38
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    They do. We show up in their newsletter from time to time.

    Indeed,and usually quoted out of context,or cherry picked...:p

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #39
    thelurcher
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭thelurcher


    Sparks wrote: »
    They do. We show up in their newsletter from time to time.
    All the more reason to watch what's said on here - people just don't realize the damage they're doing by discussing some of the more unattractive jobs that we have to do.


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    #40
    thelurcher
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭thelurcher


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    What is actually the story with this group??
    There was a big fanfare about them relaunching in June in Cork......And what exactly happened on this momenteous occasion?? Was anyone there??As there isnt much details about it in either the press or the shooting circles.. This months or last months ISD has Des Crofton having a pop at Phil Hogan about dud election promises and about how FG will soon feel the wrath of RISE,Risen?[Are the members Risers or the Risen??:confused:]
    I mean what are they all about,and is it going anyplace fast??
    A lot of what was discussed at the meeting was off topic Grizzly - some of the top table guys talked for the sake of talking.

    The FISSTA chairman did give a very well delivered presentation on fish farming though. Pity he's not fighting the causes I'm interested in.

    The RISE concept is a sound one but in practice it's failing miserably. Each organization is still just fighting their own individual case and not willing to put their full collective weight behind any other that's threatened. They may say otherwise in public but trust me on this one.


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    #41
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Guessed as much.....:rolleyes::(.
    trying to copy the UK Countryside Alliance by unifying the countrysides various different problems under one group with an "Irish" twist.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #42
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    And as predictable as rain within a day in Ireland.
    Like the sick publicity vulture that he is from todays Irish Times Letters page Mr Tierney uses the Denver massacre to forward his agenda!!!:mad::mad::mad:
    A seriously SICK puppy!!!
    http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/society-is-paying-a-very-heavy-price-for-gun-ownership-201950.html

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #43
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Miserable ****er.
    Sparks wrote:
    Dear Sir,
    I read with disgust the letter you printed by Mr. Tierney in Thursday's Times, which used the tragic murder of a dozen people by a mentally disturbed individual in the US as a justification for an attack on the good name of over 200,000 people in Ireland. Perhaps Mr. Tierney would care to mention by name any licenced firearms owner in Ireland so that we could discuss the matter in front of a court and get a court ruling on behalf of the nation as to whether or not us licenced firearms owners are indeed the scourge of society as Mr. Tierney suggests.

    Somehow I doubt that he would care to enjoin such a debate in a venue where he would be required to back up his assertions with logical argument or facts, things he seems to enjoy leaving out of any letter he sends to yourselves and the other printed media, constantly skirting the edge of the Defamation Act.

    Personally, I am sick to my back teeth of those of his ilk, who deny us constantly the right to enter into a sane, reasoned debate over any topic they take an interest in, by turning what could be useful dialogue into a meandering rant devoid of sense or facts in the hope that he could have influence - any influence - over any social policy. That kind of behaviour has caused untold harm in our country, and continues to do so today. Perhaps it is time that we insist that those who wish to stand up and decry something in the media be required to back up what they claim with facts? It seems little enough to ask...

    Yours in disgust,
    Sent just now, to lettersed@irishtimes.com
    Folks should be writing to there as well (remember to include your full name, postal address, and telephone numbers at the end - they'll only print your name, but the rest is their way of ensuring the letters aren't faked)


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    #44
    SureHowBad
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭SureHowBad


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And as predictable as rain within a day in Ireland.
    Like the sick publicity vulture that he is from todays Irish Times Letters page Mr Tierney uses the Denver massacre to forward his agenda!!!:mad::mad::mad:
    A seriously SICK puppy!!!
    http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

    Emm What!?!? That article must be one of the most absurd and extract links between two DIFFERENT societies that I have ever read. Talk about a load of ridicuolus scaremongering. I think Mr Tierney is watching too much american tv! He refers to ALL people who use firearms as people who feel they are "God-like", that we have some sort of "pent-up aggression and physiological issues" and that we need to prove our "macho credentials". Where does he get off!? :mad:

    How does he think that our Irish society is "ignoring the inherent dangers of the use of these lethal weapons"?? We have strict gun laws for this reason and part of that is to have a VALID reason to own a firearm. To be honest he is so way off the mark its irritating but I had to get it off my chest!!


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    #45
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Sparks wrote: »
    Folks should be writing to there as well..............

    Done.
    Ezridax wrote:
    Dear Sir.

    I write to you to voice my disgust at your printing of a letter in Thursday's Times by Mr. John Tierney. His use of the tragic murder of 12 innocent people by a mentally disturbed person to try and further his own agenda is sickening, and I feel you share in this shame by giving voice to him.

    Mr. Tierney has made some very serious, and baseless allegations towards some 200,000 people. He has accused these people of being on the verge of a similar episode, and insulted them with insinuations of "pent up rage & aggression". Not once has Mr. Tierney provided any evidence or facts to support his claims, but instead relies on sensationalist comments, and events such as the tragic killings in an attempt to blind people to his lack of facts.

    Not once has Mr. Tierney made mention of the thousands of men and women that use firearms to compete on both national, and international level. To great success, and at great personal financial cost. His comments come dangerously close to defaming all firearm owners. A minority of the community that comes under the strongest possible, continued, scrutiny from the moment they enter their chosen sport to well after they leave it. No other category of sportsmen & women must undergo the intensive background, medical, character checks that they do.

    His fleeting reference to the illegal firearms in Ireland does not begin to cover the real cause of the violence we see on our streets, nor does he cover the underlying reasons for this violence. His comparison of a nation that holds a constitutional right to firearms, and has done for over 200 years, to a country where firearms are a privilege, granted to the applicant/owner, that may be revoked at any time after a minimum of 3 months of checks performed by An Gardaí, and the Dept. of justice would be laughable were the topic not so serious.

    I have read articles from Mr. Tierney before and this one does not differ from his usual baseless allegations. Frankly I am disgusted, and tired of it, and to provide him with a platform where he may spread his words without judgment, scrutiny or rebuttal is inexcusable. I would challenge Mr. Tierney to attend an open, and reasoned debate where a panel of his peers would force him to support his arguments with facts.

    Yours in disbelief, and disgust
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    #46
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    De Paper [Examiner] has it as well.So a letter there as well maybe??
    Will bet it will appear in the regionals as well.:rolleyes:

    BTW the Indo has been running a few pro and anti gun columinsts and articles over the last week,and intrestingly the PRO comments on gun ownership both in the USA and here in Ireland are outweighing the anti gun comments or rants in most cases.Their one anti gun editorial is locked from reader comments for some reason...;):pWonder why???

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #47
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Sent one to the Examiner as well Grizz, but yeah, definitely. And they have a nice "send letter" link on the examiner site as well: http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/sendletter


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    #48
    knockon
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭knockon


    to the Times ........


    Dear Sir/Madam


    I am absolutely incensed by the letter from John Tierney.  How dare he try and equate the actions of illegally held firearms used by thugs and drug dealers used to murder people with the over 200,000 law abiding Farmers, hunters, competition target shooters here in Ireland.  

    Perhaps I should remind Tierney that Shooting has been an Olympic Sport since 1896.  I dont think the Irish Olympic Shooting Team who arrived in London last week are there to "unleash death and destruction on the innocent".  Tierney has attempted to sully the integrity of hundreds of thousands of legal firearms owners.  I am aghast that the Irish Times has given a platform on more than one occasion to an individual that promotes the destruction of people's property, in his own words "saboteur".

    Yours sincerely,

    Knockon


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    #49
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Sparks wrote: »
    Sent one to the Examiner as well Grizz

    Picked up by the Examiner yesterday. Albiet in a fairly savagely cut form.


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    #50
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Selective printing, but still a rebuttal however bastardised.
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    #51
    pugw
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    Fair play lads, for too long the lunatics have been given an unchallenged platform to spread their lies. In fairness to the examiner thay are the only national newspaper to carry coverage of coursing so at least they dont bow down to intimidation from the anti's like all the rest including RTE!


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    #52
    thelurcher
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭thelurcher


    Well done lads.

    Great to see individuals taking on the antis.


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    #53
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I see ICABS has honoured me in a backhanded way ,by publishing this very selective, cherry picked part of my post to back up their arguement in this thread in Julys Animal Voice "Campaign quotes":rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Trouble is in alot of cases they are not put down humanely,and there the antis do have a winning point.All we have to look at is incidents like those fcuking Gob****e down in Co Limerick that was dumpingshot greyhounds out in a quarry or the other CNUT who was chucking them off the pier into the estuary near Glin[Which just happens to be a coursing meet track].
    As well as stupid idiots curtting the ears and ID tattoos off their dogs and dumping them.mad.gifmad.gif

    Idiots like that are just handing the antis loaded guns to shoot the coursing and greyhound industry right between the eyes.

    And anyone reading that post will know there is quite abit missing!!!!

    The fools.They know not what they have done!
    Watch this space!!!!:D:D:D:D

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #54
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    Picked up by the Examiner yesterday. Albiet in a fairly savagely cut form.


    Not to mind not exactly within 48 hours of Tierneys letter either!!:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #55
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    They're in the letters page again today, this time on fox-hunting.


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    #56
    terminator2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭terminator2


    No6 wrote: »
    And inaccurate as usual, "Surveys reveal the majority of rural dewellers oppose coursing!!" lets see them then so!! Surveys of ICABS members who live in rural areas is it??:eek:
    they never knocked on my door either , let them produce this survey......


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    #57
    cavan shooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Poor old john, I am hoping that the general public are used to his anti ranting. However what he says may be true, I have on numerous occasions left young children on the side of a hill when I hadn't enough food to keep them.

    Someone some where believes this rubbish...:(

    Anyway I dob't read the examiner but let me know if there is a response


    Dear Editor

    I read with amazement Mr. Tierneys rant (yet again). I live, work, hunt, shoot and fish in rural Ireland and while I admit Farming is a tough business at times the torturing of fox cubs is not something we in rural Ireland partake in or is high on our agenda.

    I admit to leaving surplus children on the sides of mountains, I admit to detering crows by shooting them and hanging them on my round bales, okay I will also admit to an occassional black mass, Goat sacrifice and listening to Philomena Begley and Daniel O Donnell. However the activities that Mr. Tierney describe do not happen and someone is leading Mr. Tierney up a garden path they are fanciful ramblings of a man dedicated to his cause used to arouse disgust and passion.

    Yours Sincerely


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    #58
    Old Warick.
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Old Warick.


    RISE will be holding a rally at the game fair being held in Birr on the 26th of August. A big day for all fieldsports.


    Oh, and the anti's have decided to have a protest in Dublin on the same day.


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    #59
    doyle61
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭doyle61


    Old Warick. wrote: »
    RISE will be holding a rally at the game fair being held in Birr on the 26th of August. A big day for all fieldsports.


    Oh, and the anti's have decided to have a protest in Dublin on the same day.
    It would be hilarious if they had one outside the gates of birr castle. Maybe one or two of the brighter ones might realise that they're vastly outnumbered and every sane person in the country is sick of them


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    #60
    cavan shooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    I read the letters column in the Examiner and found the following letter:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/why-put-ourselves-on-a-plate-for-alien-life-form-204011.html

    Not bad says I as I started to read it and Carl Sagan had a similiar line on it, however it then started to get silly untill I read the authors name and it all made sense.

    They must spend hours coming up with this stuff.


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    #61
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    cavan shooter wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/why-put-ourselves-on-a-plate-for-alien-life-form-204011.html
    Sweet Jesus.

    Only these people could use such an abstract event as an object landing on mars and turn it into a anti hunting speech.

    Are these people for real? I mean seriously. There is a lacking when all they can do is search for an article, find some long reaching (most times non relevant) link, and then actually write such a load of crap, read it back and think to themselves "well done, that'll draw attention to my struggle".

    They have insulted hunters before saying we are in some manner "mentally afflicted". My rebuttal to that would be the article above, and all other of it's type. Why would you need to try and make these people look foolish when they are doing a better job that we ever could.
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