Garda Report - MCD blamed for violence at SHM gig

Pace2008 · 03-08-2012 4:36pm

davet82 wrote: »

Does 'electronic music' have to have special consideration because of the people it attracts? IDK seems harsh on the other 59k people who behaved and enjoyed themselves to be tarring them with the same brush.

Certain electronic artists may have to be given consideration. There are a handful who can draw large crowds - SHM, David Guetta, Deadmau5, Tiesto etc- and these also happen to be the ones who will attract scumbags and young people with **** all experience or sense when it comes to drink and drugs.

However, as far as the general public was concerned , Forbidden Fruit didn't even exist yet it was held in the heart of Dublin, a stone's throw away from the Phoenix park, and had two days dedicated to electronic music. Electric Picnic again is very dance-centric but doesn't exactly have a reputation for trouble. And there are numerous small electronic festivals run throughout the summer months that pass under the radar as the crowd stayed on their best behaviour. All of these events would have had more than their share of hedonistic drink and drug use, but as the report suggests, it is the demographic in attendance, rather than the style of music or use of mind-altering substances, that make the difference. So hopefully hope the authorities will have the good sense to realise that it's simply a small subset of the genre that could cause grievance, rather than crack down hard on any form of sound manipulation that contains a 4/4 beat.

Paully D · 04-08-2012 6:13am

It'll be interesting to see if there's much trouble at the David Guetta concert in Marley Park. It'll probably attract a similar crowd.

leggo · 04-08-2012 6:28am

Aside from the laughable 'electronic music' reference and the Gardaí playing dumb about not being briefed on the type of crowd expected, I think the report nails it. I said in the original SHM topic that I worked af these events years back and what they describe is exactly what I went through: No communication, often completely contradictory orders as MCD change the plan midway through the event and just a general feeling that you're 'getting away with it', by no major trouble breaking out despite us being wholly unprepared for such an occurrence.

Working events for them versus Aiken is like night and day. I loved Aiken events: relaxed, but organised and professional. Aiken also supplied enough of their own staff to communicate with the likes of us on the doors etc. So the punters can chill out and enjoy the day but the job still gets done. The way it should be. And there's far less self-important dicks to deal with, too.

And yet they'll continue to get away with it (save for a few token gestures to save face) because they do big business. Typical. Their reaction to this showed up their greedy, nasty core. That's one company I would absolutely love to see go downhill.

VEN · 04-08-2012 7:43am

conorhal wrote: »

and I could only wonder where are the Guards?

they're all over in Corrib, all 4,000 of them, handy number

validusername1 · 04-08-2012 8:11am

Hardly MCD's fault people were stabbed - the people who did the stabbings should be the ones getting the blame! Sure, MCD could've taken better measures to prevent those sort of things, but in fairness, the type of people who carry knives to gigs with them would probably have no bother finding an alternative method of violence if their weapons were confiscated. Just don't like how people try to blame security/guards/etc when they're not the ones who went around stabbing people.. But really, does it even matter who the media tries to blame? Either way, you know they're gonna get nothing or a slap on the wrist for what they did, even though they deserve more

Hank_Jones · 04-08-2012 9:05am

Boombastic wrote: »

Ah sure he didn't mean it poor chap:rolleyes:

He's a product of his environment sure.....

ASOT · 04-08-2012 9:29am

Pace2008 wrote: »

Certain electronic artists may have to be given consideration. There are a handful who can draw large crowds - SHM, David Guetta, Deadmau5, Tiesto etc- and these also happen to be the ones who will attract scumbags and young people with **** all experience or sense when it comes to drink and drugs.

However, as far as the general public was concerned , Forbidden Fruit didn't even exist yet it was held in the heart of Dublin, a stone's throw away from the Phoenix park, and had two days dedicated to electronic music. Electric Picnic again is very dance-centric but doesn't exactly have a reputation for trouble. And there are numerous small electronic festivals run throughout the summer months that pass under the radar as the crowd stayed on their best behaviour. All of these events would have had more than their share of hedonistic drink and drug use, but as the report suggests, it is the demographic in attendance, rather than the style of music or use of mind-altering substances, that make the difference. So hopefully hope the authorities will have the good sense to realise that it's simply a small subset of the genre that could cause grievance, rather than crack down hard on any form of sound manipulation that contains a 4/4 beat.

That's the thing, I've seen all of them in about four different countries and there was nothing near that sort of carry on that went on here. So IMO it's not necessarily the music but more the people we have living here!

Grayson · 04-08-2012 9:30am

Hank_Jones wrote: »

He's a product of his environment sure.....

But it's ok. He's in special classes for anger and alcohol.

cometogether · 04-08-2012 9:34am

For me the problem is with the SHM fans rather than the organisation of the gigs

mickydoomsux · 04-08-2012 10:23am

Dance music attracts scobes and Irish people have a terrible attitude to drink/drugs.

Throw all that into the centre of the scummiest city in the country and what do you expect to happen?

FishBowel · 04-08-2012 10:59am

davet82 wrote: »

Does 'electronic music' have to have special consideration because of the people it attracts?

Guess they'll never have a Stockhausen concert in the Phonenix Park now!

kfallon · 04-08-2012 11:17am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The report also recommends letting the Stone Roses play for 3 nights next year

Finally some sense has come out of it all!!!

davet82 · 07-08-2012 12:23pm

cometogether wrote: »

For me the problem is with the SHM fans rather than the organisation of the gigs

I dont think its the 'fans' either, i'd bet that anybody arrested at the gig couldnt tell you anything about their music

cometogether · 07-08-2012 12:39pm

davet82 wrote: »

I dont think its the 'fans' either, i'd bet that anybody arrested at the gig couldnt tell you anything about their music

Well I'd disagree. I was at the Stone Roses gig, I didn't see one fight, nobody passed out drunk, there was literally no arrests either. You telling me that's just a coincidence? Swedish House Mafia just seems to attract scumbags, that's all!

Colmustard · 07-08-2012 12:51pm

Bollox music is music, Hitler loved Wagner, Stalin Tchaikovsky, music has been blamed for delinquency since Elvis. thought Ska and punk were great but I am not a violent person and neither were my friends.

Scumbags are scumbags and they just ruin any occasion no matter who is playing or what is going on.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 12:52pm

Colmustard wrote: »

Bollox music is music, Hitler loved Wagner, Stalin Tchaikovsky, music has been blamed for delinquency since Elvis. thought Ska and punk were great but I am not a violent person and neither were my friends.

Scumbags are scumbags and they just ruin any occasion no matter who is playing or what is going on.

Bit strange then that there was all those stabbings and arrests at the SHM gig but literally none at the Stone Roses one, two days previously. Coincidence?

Colmustard · 07-08-2012 12:55pm

cometogether wrote: »

Bit strange then that there was all those stabbings and arrests at the SHM gig but literally none at the Stone Roses one, two days previously. Coincidence?

But I wouldn't blame a music genre for the behaviours of scumbags, but I concede your point. It was a security F/up.

davet82 · 07-08-2012 1:00pm

cometogether wrote: »

Bit strange then that there was all those stabbings and arrests at the SHM gig but literally none at the Stone Roses one, two days previously. Coincidence?

a bunch late 20s to early 40s in a field versus underage drinkers in their teens up to late 20s, of course there is gonna be more trouble from a younger more inexperinced crowd.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:07pm

Colmustard wrote: »

But I wouldn't blame a music genre for the behaviours of scumbags, but I concede your point. It was a security F/up.

Nah pal I ain't blaming the genre at all, I love dance music, although not SHM, but unfortunately it does attract bad elements. Was the security bad? I wasn't at the gig but it seemed tight enough at the Roses, but I obviously can't comment at the state of it at the SHM gig.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:08pm

davet82 wrote: »

a bunch late 20s to early 40s in a field versus underage drinkers in their teens up to late 20s, of course there is gonna be more trouble from a younger more inexperinced crowd.

You what? I'm 18 and I was there, and I was far from the youngest!

Colmustard · 07-08-2012 1:08pm

I am also sure that this band (whoever they are) have had big gigs elsewhere in Europe without this trouble. There is something about the average Dublin scumbag, they are just berserkers, we can't even have a paddies parade without them kicking off. I went into town after last years Dublin all Ireland win, most us Dubs had big wide love the world grins, but apparently there was murder in parts of town because of this element.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:10pm

Colmustard wrote: »

I am also sure that this band (whoever they are) have had big gigs elsewhere in Europe without this trouble. There is something about the average Dublin scumbag, they are just berserkers, we can't even have a paddies parade without them kicking off. I went into town after last years Dublin all Ireland win, most us Dubs had big wide love the world grins, but apparently there was murder in parts of town because of this element.

Actually funny you mention that, three people were stabbed at their gig in England the same month!

Colmustard · 07-08-2012 1:11pm

cometogether wrote: »

Actually funny you mention that, three people were stabbed at their gig in England the same month!

:eek: holy ****. I have to look up this band.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:14pm

Colmustard wrote: »

:eek: holy ****. I have to look up this band.

I wouldn't bother man they're rubbish!

davet82 · 07-08-2012 1:14pm

cometogether wrote: »

You what? I'm 18 and I was there, and I was far from the youngest!

overall majority, not disputing that there where younger people at the stone roses gig

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:17pm

davet82 wrote: »

overall majority, not disputing that there where younger people at the stone roses gig

I would say that the overall majority seemed to be mid to late 20s. On a similar vein, the age bracket for the Snow Patrol gig would be similar to the SHM one. Why wasn't there carnage at that?

stovelid · 07-08-2012 1:20pm

cometogether wrote: »

On a similar vein, the age bracket for the Snow Patrol gig would be similar to the SHM one. Why wasn't there carnage at that?

A catatonic state of boredom isn't conducive to a knifing frenzy.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:22pm

stovelid wrote: »

A catatonic state of boredom isn't conducive to a knifing frenzy.

If anything the wounds would be self inflicted for anyone that had to sit through that!

davet82 · 07-08-2012 1:22pm

cometogether wrote: »

I would say that the overall majority seemed to be mid to late 20s. On a similar vein, the age bracket for the Snow Patrol gig would be similar to the SHM one. Why wasn't there carnage at that?

i think there was alot of underage people at the SHM gig compared to SP.

you have to remember there were 60k and it was still a very small proporation that caused trouble.

i wouldnt blame SHM for a few wánkers causing trouble or their majority of real fans who enjoyed the concert

what do you suggest, that we ban dance music or SHM from playing again?

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:26pm

davet82 wrote: »

i think there was alot of underage people at the SHM gig compared to SP.

you have to remember there were 60k and it was still a very small proporation that caused trouble.

i wouldnt blame SHM for a few wánkers causing trouble or their majority of real fans who enjoyed the concert

what do you suggest, that we ban dance music or SHM from playing again?

Were you at both gigs? Because I imagine people would have been drinking at both, but different crowds means different reactions. I'm not too sure how small the proportion was, supposedly there was fights everywhere, I even heard of people leaving the gig early because of the trouble. Nah SHM aren't to blame, its just the sort of fans they attract! Why would I suggest banning dance music? I've already said I love it! However, this sort of outdoor event with this line-up was bound to be trouble.

professorpete · 07-08-2012 1:37pm

davet82 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcd-blamed-for-violence-at-swedish-house-mafia-gig-3188748.html

MCD maybe could have been better prepared but what prepares you for knife weilding manaics?

More / better security; if searches were carried out as they're supposed to be, then in theory, weapons will be detected / confiscated and people wielding / concealing them will not be allowed admission.

davet82 wrote: »

i wouldnt blame SHM for a few wánkers causing trouble or their majority of real fans who enjoyed the concert

what do you suggest, that we ban dance music or SHM from playing again?

More / better security at gigs that clearly will have more messers at it than the likes of Snow Patrol.

May have been said already but I think MCD have an obligation for any event that it's holding to protect it's customers from knife wielding arseholes out to case a ruck. They can achieve this by providing adequate security.

I think people saying it's because of drug dealers are missing the point. Weapons shouldn't make it past the front gate.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:41pm

professorpete wrote: »

More / better security; if searches were carried out as they're supposed to be, then in theory, weapons will be detected / confiscated and people wielding / concealing them will not be allowed admission.

More / better security at gigs that clearly will have more messers at it than the likes of Snow Patrol.

May have been said already but I think MCD have an obligation for any event that it's holding to protect it's customers from knife wielding arseholes out to case a ruck. They can achieve this by providing adequate security.

I think people saying it's because of drug dealers are missing the point. Weapons shouldn't make it past the front gate.

The thing is though, I seem to recall having that metal detector wand thing being passed over my body before I went into the Roses gig. Surely that would detect knives?

stovelid · 07-08-2012 1:45pm

In fairness, I assume the problem is that if you searched every single person throughly at a gig of, what, 45000 people, how long would that take?

Also imagine the rush just before the start of the gig and trying to fully search 1000s of people.

A metal detector rig-out like at airports would be the only way to detect knives more quickly and again, that will still take time due to false alarms, follow-on searches etc.

All the Joe Duffy palaver and blame-slinging about a handful of stabbings at a massive gig just masks the fact that there is probably little way of stopping a small number of people ending up inside with knives at an outdoor gig of that size.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 1:49pm

stovelid wrote: »

In fairness, I assume the problem is that if you searched every single person throughly at a gig of, what, 45000 people, how long would that take?

Also imagine the rush just before the start of the gig and trying to fully search 1000s of people.

A metal detector rig-out like at airports would be the only way to detect knives more quickly and again, that will still take time due to false alarms, follow-on searches etc.

All the Joe Duffy palaver and blame-slinging about a handful of stabbings at a massive gig just masks the fact that there is probably little way of stopping a small number of people ending up inside with knives at an outdoor gig of that size.

Well its not like all 45000 arrived at once to be fair!

Donnielighto · 07-08-2012 2:24pm

You can correlate musical tastes to different social behaviour. Dont try to deny it otherwise there wouldnt be the cliche of what kind of people listen to different types of music. I'm not saying its a hard and fast rule but there would be more violent scumbags at a SHM gig that a Daniel O'Donnell one.

Donnielighto · 07-08-2012 2:26pm

Put a sterilising agent in dutch gold, it's an investment in the future of the nation.

davet82 · 07-08-2012 2:38pm

cometogether wrote: »

Were you at both gigs? Because I imagine people would have been drinking at both, but different crowds means different reactions. I'm not too sure how small the proportion was, supposedly there was fights everywhere, I even heard of people leaving the gig early because of the trouble. Nah SHM aren't to blame, its just the sort of fans they attract! Why would I suggest banning dance music? I've already said I love it! However, this sort of outdoor event with this line-up was bound to be trouble.

no just the SHM one, had friends at the others.

Fights everywhere... sounds like your typical saturday night in temple bar.

was there a higher precentage of 'scumbags' at the SHM than the other gigs? - of course there was but of the 50k that went to the gig it would be a small precentage of the overall number that caused trouble.

Like I said these people that caused trouble aren't fans, we shouldnt call them that.

cometogether · 07-08-2012 2:51pm

davet82 wrote: »

no just the SHM one, had friends at the others.

Fights everywhere... sounds like your typical saturday night in temple bar.

was there a higher precentage of 'scumbags' at the SHM than the other gigs? - of course there was but of the 50k that went to the gig it would be a small precentage of the overall number that caused trouble.

Like I said these people that caused trouble aren't fans, we shouldnt call them that.

Yeah I get that, but what I think you're trying to say is that they only went for the event rather than the artist performing. Why did so many descend en masse to the SHM one rather than the others?

davet82 · 07-08-2012 3:04pm

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah I get that, but what I think you're trying to say is that they only went for the event rather than the artist performing. Why did so many descend en masse to the SHM one rather than the others?

thats what i ment, you said it better than me :pac:

why... i'm not sure. 10 years ago i went clubbing alot more, big dance events too and there was never trouble like this.

i think the decline in popularity in ecstacy and the increase in popluarity in cocaine (with alcohol) may explain the violence, even the most aggresive scumbags were mellow after taking some tablets. i'm not saying drugs are ok btw before anyone starts!

you have a theroy on it? i really dont know tbh

cometogether · 07-08-2012 3:09pm

davet82 wrote: »

thats what i ment, you said it better than me :pac:

why... i'm not sure. 10 years ago i went clubbing alot more, big dance events too and there was never trouble like this.

i think the decline in popularity in ecstacy and the increase in popluarity in cocaine (with alcohol) may explain the violence, even the most aggresive scumbags were mellow after taking some tablets. i'm not saying drugs are ok btw before anyone starts!

you have a theroy on it? i really dont know tbh

I'm not sure myself! Maybe the 2pm start had something to do with it, as some people there seemed hell bent on getting totally f ucked before they went in. Maybe drugs had a part to play too, particularly if mixed with booze. Or maybe its just to do with the nature of SHM fans.

davet82 · 07-09-2012 11:52am

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/promoter-mcd-blames-ineffective-policing-for-phoenix-park-gig-chaos-3222479.html

? The style of policing in Phoenix Park and further afield was "ineffective in dealing with the wide-spread incidents of anti-social behaviour" and was an "inappropriate response" to the criminal activity present on the day.

? The policing policy was a contributory factor in exacerbating the incidents of anti-social behaviour.

? Gardai were aware of the identity of the artist from February 28 and that the concert was deemed a higher risk than two other concerts involving the Stone Roses and Snow Patrol held before and after the Swedish House Mafia gig.

? Gardai reduced its personnel from 206 promised in April to 145.

? The policing plan was inadequate and breached the duty of care owed to concert-goers, general public, MCD and staff.

? At no stage did gardai raise any objections to either MCD's event licence application or liquor licence application.

? No instruction was given to close down the on-site bars in the concert arena over concerns about excessive alcohol consumption.

? The volume of incidents at the entrance gate search areas and breaches in perimeter fence were due in no small part to failure of gardai to enforce the law.

? Some issues raised in the letter from Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan were both "factually incorrect and highly defamatory". MCD said it also left out many relevant facts and information.

? MCD said there was no evidence to suggest the concert site was unsuitable and that gardai failed to implement laws to deal with anti-social behaviour.

? At no stage were gardai refused access to CCTV, and no complaints were received about the fitness for purpose of the event control room.

? There was a serious lack of respect and disregard for gardai and security, which appeared to have been contributed to by gardai's "relaxed" policing.

I think MCD were better forgetting about the hole shambles and moving on than pointing the finger at the guards

leggo · 07-09-2012 11:59am

Yeah, very petty sounding from MCD. Ultimately, the Gardaí didn't decide to hold or ultimately profit from the event. It's ultimately MCD's responsibility to make sure that both Gardaí and security involved know what they're getting into and plan appropriately. But to appriopriately handle a messy gig like this in an open field would cost a ****load, so they scrimp and save and hope for the best.

Having said that, this kind of carry on is standard down at the likes of Oxegen. It's just out of sight, so out of mind. The fact that it was in a park still open to the general public, in the middle of Dublin, beside businesses and residential areas, is what has caused this storm.

It's a shame that MCD are still playing the blame game instead of sucking it up and realising that they'll need to pay the piper in future, tap into their profits, and improve if they want to run future events like this smoothly. Instead, their attitude tells us that we're left waiting for this to happen all over again at a later date.

antodeco · 07-09-2012 12:01pm

I drove through Phoenix park during the gig. There were people passed out sides of the road and on the roundabouts. The Gardai were just standing at the side of the road not doing anything. MCD didnt get their security to do a proper job. Failings on both sides in my opinion.

davet82 · 07-09-2012 12:01pm

leggo wrote: »

Yeah, very petty sounding from MCD. Ultimately, the Gardaí didn't decide to hold or ultimately profit from the event. It's ultimately MCD's responsibility to make sure that both Gardaí and security involved know what they're getting into and plan appropriately. But to appriopriately handle a messy gig like this in an open field would cost a ****load, so they scrimp and save and hope for the best.

Having said that, this kind of carry on is standard down at the likes of Oxegen. It's just out of sight, so out of mind. The fact that it was in a park still open to the general public, in the middle of Dublin, beside businesses and residential areas, is what has caused this storm.

It's a shame that MCD are still playing the blame game instead of sucking it up and realising that they'll need to pay the piper in future, tap into their profits, and improve if they want to run future events like this smoothly. Instead, their attitude tells us that we're left waiting for this to happen all over again at a later date.

that pretty much sums it up, great post

Benji1974 · 07-09-2012 1:14pm

Isn’t it the responsibility of the Gardai to police public events and maintain order?

To attempt to put the blame on the concert promoters was underhand and cowardly. Gardai management seem to have closed ranks, when it’s obvious that they failed to react to the worsening situation on the day.

I’m not surprised this event got out of hand. To see how badly the Gardai manage large events, just walk around the Croke Park area any Sunday, before and after a match and see the chaos (traffic and people). The Gardai on duty come across as very passive and unwilling to deal with what they deem minor law breaking, that’s how things can escalate.

Rather than blame the concert promoters they should concentrate on training. I'm glad to see someone stand up to them, they need to be challenged more.

irishgrover · 07-09-2012 1:25pm

I remember when I was a young one, there was a concept that the Gardai were there to enforce the law, and for the most part that is what they did.
It appears in this case that they observed the failing of the private security and then wrote a condeming report.

The point that they, and some here, appear to have forgotten is that, regardless of the uselessness of MCD security, it is still the responsibility of the gardai to uphold and enfore the law, and it would appear that they failed miserably....

bijapos · 07-09-2012 1:34pm

Gardai are responsible for what happens outside the event, MCD for what goes on inside, this means they are responsible for the violence inside the event. It's up to them to put on extra security to search bags and turn away drunk or drugged concert goers. On this side MCD failed miserably.

To be fair, when you want to organise a public event like this you are told how many Gardai need to be on duty on the day and you have to pay for them. It seems the only response is that for a similar gig with a similar potential audience profile, you just multiply the number of Gardai and ambulance at the last SHM gig by 2,3 or 4, have a zero tolerance policy and get the promoter to pay. They will ultimately have to charge more for tickets or accept less profit.

MCD are full of crap as well. Denis Desmond was on Morning Ireland this morning, stated that of the 50 videos on youtube from the SHM concert only 1 showed people having a "mud fight". No mention that it's not a mud fight but a few lads beating the heads off each other while security look on.

squod · 07-09-2012 1:51pm

Metal detectors next time or bleedin' mental detectors?

Garda Report - MCD blamed for violence at SHM gig

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