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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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    #1112
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    i was planning to tile over it, in what i didnt know, maybe flag stone over the top of it, or slate.

    not really sure on that one just yet.


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    #1113
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    batman1 wrote: »
    Hi, I put this in another forum by mistake. :rolleyes:

    Have been researching lots on this one and I am confused as I was before I began!

    I am looking at replacing open fire with inset stove at some point. However, I cannot determine whether I should line the chimney or not. The house is 10 years old and is a dormer semi-D. The fire has been in use since day one with coal etc, chimney cleaned annually. The room is 17 ft x 11 ft and am looking for a simple room heater that looks nice.

    I appreciate that if it was an old house there would be no question as to lining the chimney but I have got mixed answers when I ask around. Some say do, some say no need.
    My own thinking is that, considering the stove will be in place for many years, I would be better off just getting a flexi flue liner fitted to save on hassle down the road.

    Any opinions are much appreciated.

    You don't have to line a clay lined chimney if in good condition, but most would recommend doing so for better performance from cold and easier to sweep. The Morso squirrel is a nice small quality 5kw multifuel stove or woodwarm 5kw slender or 4.5. See www.whatstove.co.uk for various stove manufacturers reviews by owners.

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1114
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Rob_talisman wrote: »
    i was planning to tile over it, in what i didnt know, maybe flag stone over the top of it, or slate.

    not really sure on that one just yet.

    If planning to tile over the granite hearth I would ask in the tile shop as to a suitable tile adhesive being a shiny surface to stick tiles too.

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1115
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    good idea i will. or i could score the granite with an angle grinder to get some grip.


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    #1116
    el sorcerino
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭el sorcerino


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi, For the various rooms as a quide you need around:



    If your house is very well insulated reduce the heat output needed.

    If I was you I would install a large boiler stove in the 54 sqm open plan room as this is the largest space to heat. The underfloor heating would hardly need to be on once the stove was lit. There are very few double sided freestanding boiler stoves unfortunately. I have no idea if the smaller room would be overheated by a double sided stove.
    Something like this.
    http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb20-he.html
    or lesser powerful version.
    http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb16-he.html

    For your room 2 I would go for a woodwarm enigma 8 freestanding stove.
    http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/wildwood-range1/enigma8kwfreestanding.ashx
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glXbfrNESys

    Room 3:

    Woodwarm enigma 3.5 or fireview 4 insert stove.
    http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/wildwood-range1/enigma35kwinset.ashx
    http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwinsetfireview.ashx

    A video on youtube of the enigma insert stove.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-PtMw7CGLM

    This below is the 6.5kw but looks the same as the fireview 4kw.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs


    You would be best to link the boiler stove and any other boilers oil/gas to a thermal store/buffer tank. These tanks are sized according to heating load and most are around 1,000 litre capacity. These tanks can link various boilers and solar panels and can run radiators and underfloor heating from them. They are like a giant hot water cylinder which is heated by the various boilers and the hot water is stored inside and is pumped to the rads and underfloor as needed by timers etc. They are very well insulated:D

    Get a professional in to size all the stoves properly based on room sizes, U values and size the thermal store/buffer tank.

    There are many stoves out there as everyone has different taste. Choosing a stove is a personal thing:). See stove reviews here or search for stoves you like. www.whatstove.co.uk Not all stoves are listed as some are new models to the market.

    Stove Fan:)

    Thanks Stove fan for the info... much appreciated:D;):)


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    #1117
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    Stove Fan wrote: »


    Taking shape:D I would prop the chimney tempoarily if lintel isn't installed, just some tempoary wooden props cut to length would do for now.

    With your hearth are you planning to tile over the granite front or just the rear section? I personally wouldn't use the granite front as being one big piece it may crack with the heat. It may not but myself it would look better if the hearth was all the same material. I personally would use flagstones/slate or build a level concrete hearth and tile it.

    Show us the end result and have fun:D

    Stove Fan:)
    Chimney propped up. Lintel arrives tomorrow. Is there a minimun over lap for the lintel to sit on the wall?

    Also is i use fireboard for the back and sides do i need to seal those joins with anything specific Stove Fan?

    Thanks


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    #1118
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Rob_talisman wrote: »
    Chimney propped up. Lintel arrives tomorrow. Is there a minimun over lap for the lintel to sit on the wall?

    Also is i use fireboard for the back and sides do i need to seal those joins with anything specific Stove Fan?

    Thanks

    I would recommend 200mm each side for the lintel. 150mm minimum each side.

    For the joins I would just seal them with the adhesive your fixing them to the wall with.

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1119
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Can somebody reccomend me a good 10-12k stove with back boiler that isnt too expensive?


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    #1120
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Degsy wrote: »
    Can somebody reccomend me a good 10-12k stove with back boiler that isnt too expensive?


    Hi what size back boiler do you require in kw and what room heat kw output are you looking for? Ie what split of the 10-12kw do you need to heat Water and room?
    What's your budget for stove? I would say the Aarrow EB series are the best value branded boiler stove.

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1121
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    Ok ive decided ill not use the existing hearth. Ill build up a new from Flagstone. Can anyone recommend anywhere for them?

    Ive done a google search for local flagstones and come up with squat....


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    #1122
    Audioslaven
    Registered Users Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Audioslaven


    Hi Stove Fan,

    I have a sitting room and I am looking at a stove between 4-5 KW. I was looking at an enameled version of Olymberyl Gabriel (not baby version) for around 550. Any idea on what these stoves are like or what you would recommend for around the 600 - 650 price range


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    #1123
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi what size back boiler do you require in kw and what room heat kw output are you looking for? Ie what split of the 10-12kw do you need to heat Water and room?
    What's your budget for stove? I would say the Aarrow EB series are the best value branded boiler stove.

    Stove Fan:)


    I need to heat a standard-sized tank with a coil and seven rads...any ideas?

    Budget depends on how much teh installation work is gonna cost,i got a quote of 4 grand including 2k for labour so i told him to bike it!


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    #1124
    stephen_k
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭stephen_k


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    If planning to tile over the granite hearth I would ask in the tile shop as to a suitable tile adhesive being a shiny surface to stick tiles too.

    Stove Fan:)
    Rob_talisman wrote: »
    good idea i will. or i could score the granite with an angle grinder to get some grip.


    No need to score the tiles, just use a primer like PCI Primer 303 and the tiles will adhere to marble... Ensure you are using a good flexible adhesive to allow for expansion due to heat...


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    #1125
    foxshooter243
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭foxshooter243


    Folks im posting this to add some info to this thread , I recently fitted a stanley Erin boiler stove in my house, I also upgraded the tank in the hot press to a insulated tank and fitted a new shower. This was the fireplace with a Grant back boiler, fitted when the house was built in 1989 see here-

    001fuk.jpg
    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Two lads in the area, one a bulider and one a plumber removed the fireplace and back boiler, rebuilt the brace , fitting lintels and replumbing pipework to suit the stove, they also fitted the new tank and shower in the space of 3 and a half days. They took care of removing the rubble too and I was left with this -

    URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/stove001.jpg/]stove001.jpg[/URL]

    All in all im very happy with the work and the stove although not fully tested in cold weather is looking really promising..any questions feel free to ask..


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    #1126
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Audioslaven wrote: »
    Hi Stove Fan,

    I have a sitting room and I am looking at a stove between 4-5 KW. I was looking at an enameled version of Olymberyl Gabriel (not baby version) for around 550. Any idea on what these stoves are like or what you would recommend for around the 600 - 650 price range

    I have no idea on how good the olymberyl stoves are but I personally would consider this clearance Dunsley highlander enviroburn 5 in the clearance sale.
    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/clearance_stoves.html I would offer £500 and haggle like mad for delivery of no more than £65
    Dunsley are very well made and are a good brand and get good reviews on http://www.whatstove.co.uk/dunsley-stoves/dunsley-highlander-5.html
    Get them to send you a photo to see condition. should be very good.


    Stove Fan:)


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    #1127
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Degsy wrote: »
    I need to heat a standard-sized tank with a coil and seven rads...any ideas?

    Budget depends on how much teh installation work is gonna cost,i got a quote of 4 grand including 2k for labour so i told him to bike it!

    It really depends on how big the 7 radiators are and if singles/doubles and the size of the room the stove is going in but at a total guess the Arrow ecoboiler EB12HE may fit the bill. Can you measure your room where the stove is going so I can calculate if 6kw to the room is too much. What age of house and insulation levels?
    http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb12-he.html

    What work needs to be done?

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1128
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    stephen_k wrote: »
    No need to score the tiles, just use a primer like PCI Primer 303 and the tiles will adhere to marble... Ensure you are using a good flexible adhesive to allow for expansion due to heat...

    Well thats a bonus! Ive been looking at something to make a base and build up to the height needed to then flagstone or tile. If i can use the existing base and tile over the top then even better and easier all round.


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    #1129
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    foxshooter243 wrote: »
    Folks im posting this to add some info to this thread , I recently fitted a stanley Erin boiler stove in my house, I also upgraded the tank in the hot press to a insulated tank and fitted a new shower. This was the fireplace with a Grant back boiler, fitted when the house was built in 1989 see here-

    001fuk.jpg
    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Two lads in the area, one a bulider and one a plumber removed the fireplace and back boiler, rebuilt the brace , fitting lintels and replumbing pipework to suit the stove, they also fitted the new tank and shower in the space of 3 and a half days. They took care of removing the rubble too and I was left with this -

    URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/stove001.jpg/]stove001.jpg[/URL]

    All in all im very happy with the work and the stove although not fully tested in cold weather is looking really promising..any questions feel free to ask..


    Lovely neat job there..i wanta fireplace removed too...can you PM me thier details please?


  • Options
    #1130
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    This is a very popular setup and many people would be interested to know some more

    Can you give an outline of the costs roughly, looks good but sounds expensive?

    Does it heat the rads and water better than the previous back boiler?

    I would not have paid the builder in full maybe 10% retention until you fired it up fully and see how it works with the heating and there is the possibility\inevitability that the plaster above the stove will crack due to the excessive heat.

    Don't worry about the weather, Fire it up full belt, open all doors and windows and have the builders number on speed dial and let us know how it works


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    #1131
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    Do i have to be careful what flagstone/slate/tiles i go for in the end. Or will anything be ok?

    This is the bit im struggling to sort out at the moment.

    And again when i have the fireboard in the back and sides i intended to paint it. does it have to be a special paint at all?


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    #1132
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    martinn123 wrote: »
    Thanks for the comments, i did discuss the skirting board, and as the stove is on a marble hearth, and obviously on legs it clears the height of the skirting, or so I am informed.
    I have noticed the plasterboard behind the stove does get quite warm, should I be concerned. The distance is per the manual.
    Was not possible to fit in corner as there is an access hatch in bedroom to the space behind the wall, and it would have been blocked by the flue.
    No issues with smoke, did get a bird in the flue, dog went mad as it was looking down through the plate on ceiling, opened hatch and window and flew away, or else got fried when I lit fire.
    thanks again.

    Don't worry about skirting boards or birds, there is a distinct chance of carbon monoxide poisoning if the stove is left burning out and the skylight is open.

    Carbon monoxide is especially present when the fuel is not burned fully ie. when the fire is being left go out at night which is also the time some poor sod will be opening the skylight a little and going to sleep.

    Carbon Monoxide is odorless and colorless and potentially fatal.

    Chimney is also too low to pitch of roof and possibly too short to create a proper draught, summary get another meter of twin wall added on top and nail that skylight shut.


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    #1133
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Taking shape:D I would prop the chimney tempoarily if lintel isn't installed, just some tempoary wooden props cut to length would do for now.

    With your hearth are you planning to tile over the granite front or just the rear section? I personally wouldn't use the granite front as being one big piece it may crack with the heat. It may not but myself it would look better if the hearth was all the same material. I personally would use flagstones/slate or build a level concrete hearth and tile it.

    Show us the end result and have fun:D

    Stove Fan:)

    This is all very laid back stuff, "maybe a few props" there was potential of the chimney collapsing.
    Rule of thumb get lintel first, temp supports in place then crack out the kango and do your worst, then fit lintel, take out supports and then post photos online.
    This forum should not be used as an excuse not to hire professionals to carry out specialist structural work or gas yourself to death from diy stove installations.
    I fit and re-fit diy installed stoves and often hear from customers that they said on boards that I didn't need this or your man on boards done it and he had no problem.
    Could a moderator add something to this thread to outline that it is for advice only and not a licence to install stoves correctly


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    #1134
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    The Stove Man wrote: »
    This is all very laid back stuff, "maybe a few props" there was potential of the chimney collapsing.
    Rule of thumb get lintel first, temp supports in place then crack out the kango and do your worst, then fit lintel, take out supports and then post photos online.
    This forum should not be used as an excuse not to hire professionals to carry out specialist structural work or gas yourself to death from diy stove installations.
    I fit and re-fit diy installed stoves and often hear from customers that they said on boards that I didn't need this or your man on boards done it and he had no problem.
    Could a moderator add something to this thread to outline that it is for advice only and not a licence to install stoves correctly

    1. With respect you know nothing about my installation other than 4-5 pics, have you seen the job in and out. No you havent. Inside the chimeny is a solid concreate base with only a hole for the flue. The lintel is completely unnessasary as this solid base all the way through IS acting as a lintel, but i still did it as over board precaution because the cost is £30, whoopee. )And thats come from a skilled builder with over 40 years experance btw). Which is why it also required no props. But again i still used props afterwards as additional precaution.

    2. Have i said im installing the stove myself. No. Ive a Hetas approved fitter doing that for me as well as replacing the flue. Im just doing the monkey work.


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    #1135
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Rob_talisman wrote: »
    Do i have to be careful what flagstone/slate/tiles i go for in the end. Or will anything be ok?

    This is the bit im struggling to sort out at the moment.

    And again when i have the fireboard in the back and sides i intended to paint it. does it have to be a special paint at all?

    I would think most will be fine providing that any tiles have been fired in a kiln. When you visit tile shops just ask for any suitable for a hearth for a stove. Proper flagstone or slate no problem:)

    I would use dulux matt emulsion for covering the fireboard. You may want to dilute the first coat with some water.

    Stove Fan:)


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    #1136
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    The Stove Man wrote: »
    This is all very laid back stuff, "maybe a few props" there was potential of the chimney collapsing.
    Rule of thumb get lintel first, temp supports in place then crack out the kango and do your worst, then fit lintel, take out supports and then post photos online.
    This forum should not be used as an excuse not to hire professionals to carry out specialist structural work or gas yourself to death from diy stove installations.
    I fit and re-fit diy installed stoves and often hear from customers that they said on boards that I didn't need this or your man on boards done it and he had no problem.
    Could a moderator add something to this thread to outline that it is for advice only and not a licence to install stoves correctly

    I disagree with your view of the chimney totally collapsing but yes a triangular section on the front could collapse (which has now been explained) hence me advising to prop the front until the lintel is fitted. I would advice to wait for the mortar to set before removing props;)

    I agree the forum is only a quide hence my post in page one, copy below. If I feel the person isn't competent I advice them to get it installed by a qualified person.
    Unfortunately there are no mandatory training/qualifications here like HETAS etc in the UK and no building control inspector here to check fireplace alterations and stove/flue installs. In the UK to install a stove/liner etc you either need to hire a hetas registered installer or have the DIY installation signed off by a building inspector.

    My advice under choosing a stove on page one of this thread.
    Don't forget that stoves should be fitted in accordance with building regulations and stove manufacturers instructions.
    Don't forget the required air supply. Either direct air supply to stoves with this feature or an air vent into the room. The size required will be in the stoves installation manual. Don't forget to fit a carbon monoxide alarm in the same room as the stove. Mandatory in the UK now and could save your life.
    If you are not competent in the installation seek the services of a stove installer!!


    Stove Fan:)


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    #1137
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The Stove Man wrote: »
    This is all very laid back stuff, "maybe a few props" there was potential of the chimney collapsing.
    Rule of thumb get lintel first, temp supports in place then crack out the kango and do your worst, then fit lintel, take out supports and then post photos online.
    This forum should not be used as an excuse not to hire professionals to carry out specialist structural work or gas yourself to death from diy stove installations.
    I fit and re-fit diy installed stoves and often hear from customers that they said on boards that I didn't need this or your man on boards done it and he had no problem.
    Could a moderator add something to this thread to outline that it is for advice only and not a licence to install stoves correctly

    If you require moderator attention use the report post feature . Do not drag threads off topic. As regards DIY advice , in this thread you appear to suggest it's a DIY job.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80055860
    You can not give DIY advice on one forum then come on all critical of someone doing the same on this forum.


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    #1138
    Rob_talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Rob_talisman


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    I would think most will be fine providing that any tiles have been fired in a kiln. When you visit tile shops just ask for any suitable for a hearth for a stove. Proper flagstone or slate no problem:)

    I would use dulux matt emulsion for covering the fireboard. You may want to dilute the first coat with some water.

    Stove Fan:)

    Well i ordered some Riven Dark Slate today 600x400mm x 5, should arrive back end of next week, with someNorcros Thick Bed Grey flex Stone Adhesive and Norcros Anthracite Flex Grout. and Fila Satin Seal.

    Hoping that will look fab. :D


  • Options
    #1139
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Rob_talisman wrote: »
    Well i ordered some Riven Dark Slate today 600x400mm x 5, should arrive back end of next week, with someNorcros Thick Bed Grey flex Stone Adhesive and Norcros Anthracite Flex Grout. and Fila Satin Seal.

    Hoping that will look fab. :D

    Nice, I bet they will:D


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    #1140
    minirolo
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭minirolo


    Hi, so glad i found this thread, Stove Fan you're a genius! Can you advise on multi fuel back boiler stove for me please, just building house at the moment but need to advise builder on size of opening for stove. Plumber tells me my radiators will be 131000 btus, and we will have a bigger than average cylinder. Plumber thinks I will only need to heat downstairs rads off the stove and may put in a manual switch so that we can change to heat upstairs rads if we want. The room that the stove will be in is 4.4m x 5.2m. I'm looking at so many brochures that I'm going slightly gaga! So you're advice would be extremely helpful, I'm thinking of either stanley Erin or Reginald, the stovax stocton, the hamco Derg, the TR14, the boru carraig mor 20kw, the Stocton EB16HE, the henley Blasket, the yeoman devon or county.
    Can you advise what output you think I will need to the room and to the boiler; the stoves I've mentioned are all different in their outputs and I don't know what to pick!

    thanks a million


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    #1141
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    minirolo wrote: »
    Hi, so glad i found this thread, Stove Fan you're a genius! Can you advise on multi fuel back boiler stove for me please, just building house at the moment but need to advise builder on size of opening for stove. Plumber tells me my radiators will be 131000 btus, and we will have a bigger than average cylinder. Plumber thinks I will only need to heat downstairs rads off the stove and may put in a manual switch so that we can change to heat upstairs rads if we want. The room that the stove will be in is 4.4m x 5.2m. I'm looking at so many brochures that I'm going slightly gaga! So you're advice would be extremely helpful, I'm thinking of either stanley Erin or Reginald, the stovax stocton, the hamco Derg, the TR14, the boru carraig mor 20kw, the Stocton EB16HE, the henley Blasket, the yeoman devon or county.
    Can you advise what output you think I will need to the room and to the boiler; the stoves I've mentioned are all different in their outputs and I don't know what to pick!

    thanks a million

    Oh yes it is a minefield:D You will never get a boiler stove big enough to heat the whole house as 131,000btu's is a hell of a lot of heat.

    Personally I would definately zone the radiator circuits, minimum 2. Upstairs/Downstairs. I believe they should zone anyway over a certain floor area for Part L energy saving regulations.

    The other problem is your current room for the stove isn't a big room. This room only requires a stove room output of around 4kw to heat it. Most boiler stoves produce around 6kw plus and more for the larger output boiler stoves . Is there any double doors/doors off this room? If we can get a through airflow we may be able to choose a stove with a higher room output and larger output boiler:). Or is there an option to install the boiler stove in a larger room?
    Another option is a log gasification/coal boiler in an adjoining boileroom.
    http://kotly.com/Wood_and_coal_gasification_boiler_Orlan_Super__40kW_-_with_a_pressure_ventilator,_Laddomat_and_BVTS_valve,821.html?topSsid=e766d92bda5c6e977882f343c8710f7f
    With this option they are available in many high outputs and would heat the whole house:) The dust etc would be outside and not in your house:D and if you locate the fuel in the same room as the stove very easy fuelling without trailing dust etc in the house.

    I personally would seriously consider this if there is a room for the boiler. You combine these with a thermal store/ buffer tank and this tank can link in another boiler, gas/oil etc plus solar panels:) They are more efficient than a standard boiler stove:D
    I would then just fit a small stove in living room.

    Stove Fan:)


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