10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

Lumbo · 20-07-2012 12:18pm

Gbear wrote: »

I didn't say it was a deterrent. I didn't even say I support the death penalty in practice, but it's going to be a fairly straight forward case and he's going to be executed and that is a good thing.

Do you think that the kind of person who goes into a cinema and shoots ten people is going to experience an epiphany in prison and suddenly feel shame?

No, i hope he ****ing rots in there.

stevenmu · 20-07-2012 12:18pm

Jake1 wrote: »

Where did you hear the report of a baby being shot at close range?

Mostly earlier on this thread, but it's also on the reddit timeline

fishy fishy · 20-07-2012 12:19pm

Dave! wrote: »

It's confirmed by the hospital.

You done trolling now? Moron

reported.

Hande hoche! · 20-07-2012 12:19pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Sickening the amount of people here pushing their liberal anti-gun agenda. This was a mass murder carried out by a madman, people who intend to do these things will always get guns. Had there been another person in the Cinema carrying a gun then perhaps the assailant could have been shot before he killed so many people.

Two thugs tried robbing an internet cafe in Florida last week and a 70 year old who was carrying opened fire upon the two of them shooting both of them but unfortunately failing to kill them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/07/18/pensioner-shoots-and-injures-armed-robbers_n_1682942.html

Guns don't kill, people do! That's what I love about the US their individual freedoms enshrined in their constitution, if this happened here the lunatic would probably get released after 10 or 15 years in jail. Over in America he will be executed.

A gun fight inside a dark room packed full of panicking people would not be a good idea.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:19pm

old hippy wrote: »

I suggest you get out and meet some Americans, read some American literature or even visit that place. Don't believe and don't perpetuate the stereotype.

I have lived in America. I have American friends and I have read more American literature than most. My American friends would agree that their country is completely backward on gun legislation and that the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't have anything to do with America. Have you ever seen the percentages of them who don't own passports? My friends consider themselves in the minority of intelligent, free-thinking and cultured American. I'm not perpetuating a stereotype, I'm speaking from experience. Interesting how you claim I must not know Americans, have been to America or read American literature, based completely on one post. Who's really stereotyping?

20-07-2012 12:20pm

wonder why he did it

Napper Hawkins · 20-07-2012 12:21pm

I am pie wrote: »

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Yawn. More senseless death in the US. I just don't care anymore.

...and yet you mustered the energy to tell us all. That you don't care.

So now we know. Terrific. How are you on suicide bombings these day? Bit tired of those too? Any time in your busy day for sympathy or straight to apathy there too?

Do let us know.

Ah shut up, you smarmy twat.

20-07-2012 12:21pm

12 now dead from 14

silentbang · 20-07-2012 12:21pm

I feel sad for American society as a whole, they pride themselves on being "the land of the free" when really they are more imprisoned than many a nation, so scared that anyone should threaten them as a nation or as individuals that they kill without thought....sadly these stories come out of America yearly and will continue too as long as guns are so easily available......RIP the victims.

ScumLord · 20-07-2012 12:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

how many more people will die by the hands of guns before they do something

If everyone in America bar two people got shot, the last two people would still want to uphold they're right to bare arms. It's just ingrained in their culture in some parts of the country. They're as serious about getting everybody armed as an ex-smoker is about getting everybody to quit smoking.

Hande hoche! · 20-07-2012 12:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

wonder why he did it

Expect to hear the usual violent films,video games and music excuses rolled out.

I am pie · 20-07-2012 12:22pm

mup wrote: »

I have lived in America. I have American friends and I have read more American literature than most. My American friends would agree that their country is completely backward on gun legislation and that the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't have anything to do with America. Have you ever seen the percentages of them who don't own passports? My friends consider themselves in the minority of intelligent, free-thinking and cultured American. I'm not perpetuating a stereotype, I'm speaking from experience. Interesting how you claim I must not know Americans, have been to America or read American literature, based completely on one post. Who's really stereotyping?

That's great that your friends think they're better than the majority of Americans. They sound awesome. To say the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't involve American is, well, ignorant !

stevenmu · 20-07-2012 12:22pm

old hippy wrote: »

And what kind of culture creates such monsters? Such sickness?

That's a pretty big question, and way out of my area of expertise. But the best answer I can give is that I don't know, but equally I don't know of any culture which does not. Pretty much every human culture, modern or otherwise, has produced people who commit atrocities, both against babies and other people in general. We're a very imperfect species.

Basq · 20-07-2012 12:22pm

Jessica Redfield - a victim whose last tweet simply read:

@jessespector MOVIE DOESN'T START FOR 20 MINUTES

@jessespector then confirmed she was shot and killed at the screening.. he's since removed that tweet!

20-07-2012 12:22pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Expect to hear the usual violent films,video games and music excuses rolled out.

if i hear video games :mad:

20-07-2012 12:23pm

fair play to those swat guys, they must have balls of steel.

Who knows whats behind those windows.

I am pie · 20-07-2012 12:23pm

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Ah shut up, you smarmy twat.

So glad you care enough to comment. I'll take it as a compliment.

Back to sleep now napper..

20-07-2012 12:24pm

Jake1 wrote: »

fair play to those swat guys, they must have balls of steel.

Who knows whats behind those windows.

HERE HERE

Stinicker · 20-07-2012 12:26pm

I am pie wrote: »

That's great that your friends think they're better than the majority of Americans. They sound awesome. To say the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't involve American is, well, ignorant !

Indeed, America the land of the brave and free, created by people who fled from oppression and tyranny. They have their country the way they want it and it is not for us to lecture them. Having travelled in extensively in the US and regularly interacting with Americans they would buy and sell your average Irish person. To label American's ignorant is well really well exposing ones own prejudices and ignorance and Anti-Americanism.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:26pm

I am pie wrote: »

That's great that your friends think they're better than the majority of Americans. They sound awesome. To say the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't involve American is, well, ignorant !

That is not in anyway ignorant. Ignorance is defined as a lack of knowledge or information. Americans, yes the majority, are very ignorant to other cultures(they have little or no knowledge, it's not a choice but a result of their inward culture). It is a majority and I'm sure statistics will back this up. The reason my friends are not in this uncultured majority is that they have choosen to travel, read and educate themselves further after college or high school. Check the stats for reading numbers and passports in America. They are in the minority and it is not pretentious for them to consider themselves as such.

20-07-2012 12:27pm

hey im a loner i take offence sky news

chin_grin · 20-07-2012 12:28pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Indeed, America the land of the brave and free, created by people who fled from oppression and tyranny. They have their country the way they want it and it is not for us to lecture them. Having travelled in extensively in the US and regularly interacting with Americans they would buy and sell your average Irish person. To label American's ignorant is well really well exposing ones own prejudices and ignorance and Anti-Americanism.

We only know the stereotype from the media outlets and their shows/movies. So I agree once you haven't lived at 'ground level' with them you can't really comment (that's in general, not you!).

But I'll stick to my "guns are bad" point of view. Their "right to bear arms" needs to be reassessed I think!

splashthecash · 20-07-2012 12:29pm

seamus wrote: »

A child, not a baby. Lots of confusion when Americans refer to children under 8 as "little baby girl".

This is probably the source of the "A baby was shot at point blank range" rumour. I would imagine if an actual baby had been shot dead it would be reported by now.

All we know at the moment is of a 3-month-old that's critical and we've no idea if that child was deliberately shot or was hit by a stray bullet.

This is a terrible event and it has really saddened me, all those poor people just going along to see a flick the same way I will be on Monday.

On a separate note, what in the name of God is a 3 month old doing at a midnight showing of a film??....apparently I should add

up for anything · 20-07-2012 12:29pm

average_runner wrote: »

No offense but kids come before any movie, so there is no excuses full stop for a 3 month old or six year old to be at the cinema after 9 at night never mind midnight.

If you want the social life dont have kids.

Society just makes excuses.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Doesn't harm kids once in a while. Some of my best childhood memories are to do with getting to stay up late and doing something adult like that. Not that a three month old would remember it but they are very portable.

You're making a trip to the cinema sound like some sort of debauched outing. It might have been the parents first night out since the baby was born, or a breastfeeding mother who got a chance to go out and a dark cinema is some place you could feed a baby without too many disapproving looks.

Lighten up.

old hippy · 20-07-2012 12:29pm

mup wrote: »

I have lived in America. I have American friends and I have read more American literature than most. My American friends would agree that their country is completely backward on gun legislation and that the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't have anything to do with America. Have you ever seen the percentages of them who don't own passports? My friends consider themselves in the minority of intelligent, free-thinking and cultured American. I'm not perpetuating a stereotype, I'm speaking from experience. Interesting how you claim I must not know Americans, have been to America or read American literature, based completely on one post. Who's really stereotyping?

Well, I'm speaking from experience too. Your generalising about America led me to believe you were looking down on an entire nation. My apologies.

ScumLord · 20-07-2012 12:29pm

I am pie wrote: »

That's great that your friends think they're better than the majority of Americans. They sound awesome. To say the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of anything that doesn't involve American is, well, ignorant !

I've found that people that live in big cities like New York barely know what's happening outside of that city never mind the rest of the world. I think there's just so much happening in big cities like that they don't have time to consider what the rest of the world is up too. Sure they may hear some news stories but they're just that a story on TV.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:30pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Indeed, America the land of the brave and free, created by people who fled from oppression and tyranny. They have their country the way they want it and it is not for us to lecture them. Having travelled in extensively in the US and regularly interacting with Americans they would buy and sell your average Irish person. To label American's ignorant is well really well exposing ones own prejudices and ignorance and Anti-Americanism.

See my post above. I labelled them as ignorant of other cultures. That is true, I love Americans, even the poorly educated redneck Americans. I find them to be great company, both interesting and entertaining. That doesn't mean I can't notice that they have no real clue about anything outside of America. Please fully read my posts before responding as such. I don't mean that to sound pedantic but it's not fair to comment if you haven't fully read what I said.

tigger123 · 20-07-2012 12:30pm

mup wrote: »

That is not in anyway ignorant. Ignorance is defined as a lack of knowledge or information. Americans, yes the majority, are very ignorant to other cultures(they have little or no knowledge, it's not a choice but a result of their inward culture). It is a majority and I'm sure statistics will back this up. The reason my friends are not in this uncultured majority is that they have choosen to travel, read and educate themselves further after college or high school. Check the stats for reading numbers and passports in America. They are in the minority and it is not pretentious for them to consider themselves as such.

Jesus Christ ... generalise much? You're talking about a country with (approx) 250 million people ... but you have them all summed up? And what does owning a passport have to do with anything?

"Ignorance ... defined as a lack of knowledge or information."

crusher000 · 20-07-2012 12:31pm

Op was about people being shot at cinema not about babies or children being there (it's been mentioned now a few times). The merits about the rights and wrongs of that can be posted elsewhere. The fall down here is on humanity and not laws etc. Making it harder for a person like this to get a gun won't stop them from finding another means to end life. If people want to go out and kill they will find away.

Traumatic for the peole involved and their famillies. A simple escape like goig to the cinema can turn into this nightmare.

I am pie · 20-07-2012 12:32pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Indeed, America the land of the brave and free, created by people who fled from oppression and tyranny. They have their country the way they want it and it is not for us to lecture them. Having travelled in extensively in the US and regularly interacting with Americans they would buy and sell your average Irish person. To label American's ignorant is well really well exposing ones own prejudices and ignorance and Anti-Americanism.

To be honest, I don't agree with this either. "Americans/Irish are cleverer than" type conversations are pretty pointless wouldn't you say? We're two advanced nations in terms of education and have our own unique set of advantages and disadvantages as a society. Scoring them in an ad hoc way and trying to come up with a winner is so meaningless.

I think their gun laws should be tighter, but I tend genuinely think the person who wanted to carry out this carnage would have regardless on whether they could get hold of a gun as easily. They might have resorted to using petrol bombs/molotov cocktails or an illegal fire arm.

ScumLord · 20-07-2012 12:32pm

mup wrote: »

See my post above. I labelled them as ignorant of other cultures.

But Americas full of just about every culture from around the world and have distinct cultures of their own from state to state. I don't think they're that ignorant of other cultures but that there are many culture clashes due to the melting pot of a country they have.

pickarooney · 20-07-2012 12:32pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Guns don't kill, people do! That's what I love about the US their individual freedoms enshrined in their constitution, if this happened here the lunatic would probably get released after 10 or 15 years in jail. Over in America he will be executed.

So this individual's freedom would not, in fact, be guaranteed by the American constitution?

up for anything · 20-07-2012 12:34pm

crusher000 wrote: »

Op was about people being shot at cinema not about babies or children being there (it's been mentioned now a few times). The merits about the rights and wrongs of that can be posted elsewhere. The fall down here is on humanity and not laws etc. Making it harder for a person like this to get a gun won't stop them from finding another means to end life. If people want to go out and kill they will find away.

Traumatic for the peole involved and their famillies. A simple escape like goig to the cinema can turn into this nightmare.

Threads, like conversations, can go off at tangents connected to the original OP.

seamus · 20-07-2012 12:34pm

One witness claims to have seen someone take a phone call at the start of the movie and leave by the emergency exit, leaving it open.

This is the way the shooter allegedly came in.

Possibly an accomplice, or perhaps the shooter himself had been in the cinema, then pretended to take a call and went out the exit so that he could get back in that way.

His car was parked right beside the exit, so that's what he may have done.

old hippy · 20-07-2012 12:35pm

mup wrote: »

See my post above. I labelled them as ignorant of other cultures. That is true, I love Americans, even the poorly educated redneck Americans. I find them to be great company, both interesting and entertaining. That doesn't mean I can't notice that they have no real clue about anything outside of America. Please fully read my posts before responding as such. I don't mean that to sound pedantic but it's not fair to comment if you haven't fully read what I said.

Come on, now. Plenty of folk here and elsewhere are ignorant of other cultures. It's not just confined to some Americans.

FutureGuy · 20-07-2012 12:37pm

mup wrote: »

Some of the comments here are sickening. I don't expect to change the outlook of someone who has a defective enough personality to make such comments. I've never understood the premise of trolling, it's certainly not for well educated or intelligent people. It seems to have its roots in shocking people with outlandish comments. You have an anonymous username and nobody knows who you are, what enjoyment can you get from shocking people who have no idea who you are? Your only impact is to annoy people with sick jokes. If your 'coping mechanism' is 'gallows humour' then surely there is somewhere else ye can all be moved, where people of a decent moral grounding, empathy and compassion don't have to be upset by your comments.

Using multiple killings as a base for a cheap laugh is disgusting. I understand humour is subjective and I would consider myself quite dark but to make light of a shooting like this where a baby has suffered really forces me to wonder where we, as a society, are headed. I realise time will pass and jokes will be made about this but in the immediate aftermath it is tactless.

I know I don't know any of these people personally and have no way of proving but I would imagine that they lead very sad lives or no lives outside of internet chatrooms and forums at all if this is how they choose to interact. I know I will be the subject of their vitriol now and I accept that but I couldn't read those comments without saying my piece.

My more pressing concern is how the US will react to this. I hope that it will be a catalyst for changing gun legislation but fear it will be swept under the rug under the heading of "Terrorism/Extremism". Nobody can comment for certain but I do believe if it were not for the easy availability and lax restrictions on firearms possession in America, this would not have happened.

I know you are an infrequent poster on boards.ie, but I strongly encourage you to post more often. Very well said.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:37pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Jesus Christ ... generalise much? You're talking about a country with (approx) 250 million people ... but you have them all summed up? And what does owning a passport have to do with anything?

"Ignorance ... defined as a lack of knowledge or information."

Of course I am generalising, I have never claimed not to be. How could you possibly know how everyone in a country so big thinks. However, I have lived there for quite some time, from deep south to east and west coasts. Generally, the people I meet are ignorant of other cultures. The majority are. The passport statistics backs up my point that they don't travel outside of America, hence the inward culture. They see only America and it's not hard to see why. It is the most powerful, famous country in the world. As Irish, we always want to travel to see other places because we are a small country. For Americans, they need only travel from one coast to another in their own country for a completely different culture. I'm sorry but in my opinion, the majority of Americans are clueless about other cultures.

I see you've defined ignorance again but I do not understand why.

20-07-2012 12:38pm

Scanner says report of some distressed parent heading up to scene, possibly with fire arm.

heading to ICU

stevenmu · 20-07-2012 12:40pm

chin_grin wrote: »

But I'll stick to my "guns are bad" point of view. Their "right to bear arms" needs to be reassessed I think!

That's a very simplistic point of view. Ireland has pretty strict gun control, yet we regularly have "gang land" shootings. The UK has pretty strict gun control too and equally gets plenty. And don't forget the decades of violence in the north, again with strong gun control.

The fact is that this guy created and executed a plan to kill a large number of people. He could quite easily have filled a backpack with home made explosives and ball bearings, he could have flown an airplane into the building, he could have set fire to the cinema. There's any number of ways he could have carried out an attack.

The root problem is that planned and carried out such an attack, not the actual method he chose to implement it. There's no evidence to suggest that if that method was unavailable that he would not have just used some other method.

There are countless examples of people who chose to commit mass murder and used something other than guns. Are there any examples of people who chose to commit mass murder, but didn't bother because getting a gun would be difficult?

Similarly there are plenty of places where gun ownership is as common as the US, and they don't have the same issues with gun violence, or violence of any type.

Lack gun control isn't the problem.

abouttobebanned · 20-07-2012 12:40pm

Always amazes me how people can find things to argue about in a thread like this.

Horrific thing to happen.

20-07-2012 12:41pm

seamus wrote: »

One witness claims to have seen someone take a phone call at the start of the movie and leave by the emergency exit, leaving it open.

This is the way the shooter allegedly came in.

Possibly an accomplice, or perhaps the shooter himself had been in the cinema, then pretended to take a call and went out the exit so that he could get back in that way.

His car was parked right beside the exit, so that's what he may have done.

Some witnesses say a lot of things. It may be true but I wouldn't bank on it.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:43pm

ScumLord wrote: »

But Americas full of just about every culture from around the world and have distinct cultures of their own from state to state. I don't think they're that ignorant of other cultures but that there are many culture clashes due to the melting pot of a country they have.

I accept that point and allude to it in my most recent post. However, I still believe that though different states in America have very different cultures, a lot of core values remain. Of course there are exceptions, Texas and California were quite different, Texans, in general being much more conservative. However, I noticed in California that they were not as opposed to a person's right to bear arms as I would have presumed. As I said, some core values in America resonate throughout the country.

noodler · 20-07-2012 12:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Some witnesses say a lot of things. It may be true but I wouldn't bank on it.

Vague...

old hippy · 20-07-2012 12:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Some witnesses say a lot of things. It may be true but I wouldn't bank on it.

Very true. In the wake of the killing of Jean Charles de Menzies (Stockwell, 05) you had people lining up in front of the cameras saying all sorts of blatant untruths. Some people in a panic claim they see all sorts of things and some people like the spotlight for their 15 seconds of fame.

20-07-2012 12:44pm

guy headed to ICU has been subdued.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:48pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

I know you are an infrequent poster on boards.ie, but I strongly encourage you to post more often. Very well said.

Thank you, I do like to read the threads reasonably frequently but often find myself wondering will anything I say change these people's opinon or make them consider being more tactful where their opinion can be publicly viewed. After reading the first few comments in this thread I felt it was too sickening not to weigh in and perhaps there were others who shared my disgust. It is quite heartening to see that the majority of people have expressed concern, sympathy and empathy.

karma_ · 20-07-2012 12:49pm

old hippy wrote: »

Very true. In the wake of the killing of Jean Charles de Menzies (Stockwell, 05) you had people lining up in front of the cameras saying all sorts of blatant untruths. Some people in a panic claim they see all sorts of things and some people like the spotlight for their 15 seconds of fame.

Including the police who murdered him.

TheGimp · 20-07-2012 12:50pm

Jake1 wrote: »

Scanner says report of some distressed parent heading up to scene, possibly with fire arm.

heading to ICU

WTF?

Stinicker · 20-07-2012 12:51pm

pickarooney wrote: »

So this individual's freedom would not, in fact, be guaranteed by the American constitution?

He lost his freedom as soon as he decided to rob others of their freedom to live and enjoy their lives. Now the US will punish him and end his life accordingly. Over in this country he would serve a maximum of twenty years and be declared punished and get his freedom back having killed so many people.

America guarantees freedom, but freedom isn't free, no one has the right to go killing people, Guns are for sport and self defense. In Ireland had this happened and some other person had a handgun and shot the murderer in the middle of the killing spree he would be arrested and charged with murder. In this country not only is it practically impossible to get a gun but try to defend yourself or others and you'll find yourself on the wrong side of the law. Commit assault, financial treason or murder someone and you'll get a slap on the wrist at the worst case, rob a loaf of bread to feed your family or break the speed limit and you can expect serious consequences.

There is no justice in Ireland and the policing system here is corrupt to the core. In America this lunatic will get the Death Penalty.

mup · 20-07-2012 12:52pm

old hippy wrote: »

Come on, now. Plenty of folk here and elsewhere are ignorant of other cultures. It's not just confined to some Americans.

While I agree with your point to a certain degree. I have had more luck in other countries than America when referencing other cultures. Again I reiterate that this is just from my personal experience and do of course realise that there are some very intelligent and cultured Americans. I have just noticed that percentage wise they are fewer and further between in America.

10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

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