Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Voodoo_rasher · 09-07-2012 8:44am

"The sad fact is that the mix of county councillors and clergymen that comprises the WOT"

why the hell are clergy sticking their craw in for? Keep them away from public policy making pl____ease!

dowlingm · 09-07-2012 7:54pm

westtip wrote: »

Will it hold up mainline trains, or will Dublin trains stop here as a set down point only?

I'd say it's likely any Dublin train which can use a Limerick train to pass people to it via Galway (backtracking is not unknown for Heuston services) or Athenry will skip Oranmore.

westtip · 10-07-2012 8:03am

dowlingm wrote: »

I'd say it's likely any Dublin train which can use a Limerick train to pass people to it via Galway (backtracking is not unknown for Heuston services) or Athenry will skip Oranmore.

my thought was oranmore might be a useful halt and drop for any passengers living that side of Galway for Dublin trains. I don't see it as an outbound stopping point for Dublin bound trains.

yer man! · 10-07-2012 4:30pm

westtip wrote: »

my thought was oranmore might be a useful halt and drop for any passengers living that side of Galway for Dublin trains. I don't see it as an outbound stopping point for Dublin bound trains.

Ya I don't think Dublin trains will stop here, it was just seen as a commuter station. If it had a passing loop it would be great. There is space for it in the future, I know that there is plans to dual track to Athenry but won't be built for 10 years.....

dowlingm · 10-07-2012 5:17pm

westtip wrote: »

my thought was oranmore might be a useful halt and drop for any passengers living that side of Galway for Dublin trains. I don't see it as an outbound stopping point for Dublin bound trains.

I'm not following - why is it ok to stop trains WB but not EB?

Is placing a halt mid block likely to require signalling changes or is stopping between signals okay?

Our man in Havana · 10-07-2012 7:33pm

dowlingm wrote: »

I'm not following - why is it ok to stop trains WB but not EB?

Is placing a halt mid block likely to require signalling changes or is stopping between signals okay?

There is no issue stopping mid block.

westtip · 11-07-2012 8:50am

dowlingm wrote: »

I'm not following - why is it ok to stop trains WB but not EB?

I was thinking set down only with excess penalties for anyone trying to hop on WB. Not stopping EB so the mainline train is not used as a commuter hop, but I guess there is no real logic to it! However of course it would add more time to the overall Dublin - Galway journey - and the route is already suffering at the hands of far more competitive journey times and convenience of the express buses, which I believe run through the night on the hour these days as a 24 hour service.

Of course it will all make jack Sh*t difference to the arguments about the WRC although I wait with baited breath for the overly optimistic press release from West on Track when Oranmore opens and how a line from Ennis to Athenry will further contribute to commuter traffic from oranmore to Galway and how everyone getting on at oranmore is now officially using the Western Rail Corridor, and how the people of Tuam are starting their own Jarrow march to the Dail demanding trains on the quarter hour to Galway before they all starve to death...and much more!

end of the road · 11-07-2012 2:34pm

westtip wrote: »

Of course it will all make jack Sh*t difference to the arguments about the WRC although I wait with baited breath for the overly optimistic press release from West on Track when Oranmore opens and how a line from Ennis to Athenry will further contribute to commuter traffic from oranmore to Galway and how everyone getting on at oranmore is now officially using the Western Rail Corridor, and how the people of Tuam are starting their own Jarrow march to the Dail demanding trains on the quarter hour to Galway before they all starve to death...and much more!

but whatever the arguments over the WRC itself isn't a station at oranmore not a good thing? i take it that Tuam wouldn't be able to sustain a commuter service?

westtip · 11-07-2012 3:07pm

end of the road wrote: »

but whatever the arguments over the WRC itself isn't a station at oranmore not a good thing? i take it that Tuam wouldn't be able to sustain a commuter service?

Oranmore station is a plus - yes whatever the WRC arguments, but not sure it will add value to the Athenry - galway section without double tracking/passing loop at least at the station. Tuam commuter service? - well a commuter service is not one train a morning at 7.50 am heading for galway, a commuter service by any recognised standard globally is a regular service thorughout the day with peak services being quite frequent - and herein lies the problem, there just ain't the justfiable number of bodies going Tuam - Galway centre to justify a proper commuter service lets say a train every 20 minutes from 7 am to 9.20 am then one an hour and then every 20 minutes from 4.00 pm to 6.30 - thats a commuter service. Rebuilding the Tuam connection for maybe four or even six trains a day quite simply doesn't stack up. Its called bodies and critical mass - this is what you need for heavy and indeed light rail commuter services. and in essence it is at the core of the argument that the WRC northern branch line simply will never happen.

dowlingm · 11-07-2012 3:45pm

end of the road wrote: »

but whatever the arguments over the WRC itself isn't a station at oranmore not a good thing? i take it that Tuam wouldn't be able to sustain a commuter service?

If the Oranmore station has been combined with a passing loop (not necessarily with a second platform) then the time savings from being able to release trains from Galway sooner in the face of incoming trains from Athenry would have made up for the time lost in stopping at the station, taken over the whole of the timetable. Now the block time just gets longer with no counterbenefit. Yes this will mean some uplift in Oranmore but we don't know how much of this will simply be cannibalising Renmoreites who would normally use Galway station.

So... yay. But only with a small y and no exclamation marks.

glineli · 16-07-2012 3:42pm

An update on the Crusheen stop. Apparently the developer looked for extra money after planning was granted. So they are redrawing at the moment and hope to submit new plans at a new site, just down from the original site, in the next few months.

westtip · 16-07-2012 6:57pm

glineli wrote: »

An update on the Crusheen stop. Apparently the developer looked for extra money after planning was granted. So they are redrawing at the moment and hope to submit new plans at a new site, just down from the original site, in the next few months.

Ah yes the Crusheen stop - does anyone remember that rather quaint programme RTE did on the WRC with the green warrior cycling through crusheen, looking at all the traffic - which I guess is now a minor trickle of local traffic with the bypass built. Eco-eye was the programme it was done in the halcyon days of the latter end of C Tiger, and the locals talked about commuter services hither and tither. Anyway take a look at this sleepy hollow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusheen

According to the lastest Census results, Crusheen had a population growth of 20% in the period 2006-2011. In numbers, the population went up from 720 to 864.[3] this is the quote on Wiki taken from CSO.

Wow new commuter station for a population of 864 folk - man woman child and pensioners included - so I wonder how many of those souls will be rushing down each morning for the commuter train into the metropolis of Limerick or even Galway....

Another 3 to 4 minutes added to the total journey time of the "inter-city WRC express" chuck in the same again for the new stop at Oranmore, glory be it will soon be up to 2 and half hours journey time.

Could someone please tell me what's gone wrong with transport policy in this country?

dowlingm · 16-07-2012 7:22pm

Instead of lashing out money on Crusheen (when the developer asked for more money the answer should have been to get up from the table) how about automating the crossing gates between Ennis and Limerick and putting in at least one passing loop? Hmmm?

yer man! · 17-07-2012 12:27am

How long do you reckon an express Galway - Ennis - Limerick train would take? (if one existed)

yer man! · 17-07-2012 12:30am

dowlingm wrote: »

If the Oranmore station has been combined with a passing loop (not necessarily with a second platform) then the time savings from being able to release trains from Galway sooner in the face of incoming trains from Athenry would have made up for the time lost in stopping at the station, taken over the whole of the timetable. Now the block time just gets longer with no counterbenefit. Yes this will mean some uplift in Oranmore but we don't know how much of this will simply be cannibalising Renmoreites who would normally use Galway station.

So... yay. But only with a small y and no exclamation marks.

There's more than enough space for a passing loop at the site, they might put one in,

, doubtful, but at least it can't not be done.

Poxyshamrock · 17-07-2012 1:56am

yer man! wrote: »

How long do you reckon an express Galway - Ennis - Limerick train would take? (if one existed)

With increase in speeds and less stops, you'd probably do it in 1.5 hours.

Wishful thinking! :rolleyes:

I wonder did the service do well with the Volvo Ocean Race?

end of the road · 17-07-2012 2:43am

i believe it should have gone limerick ennis athenry maybe oranmore galway. that combined with a decent speed might have made it maybe not a massive success but maybe it would be doing a lot better?

westtip · 17-07-2012 9:58am

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

With increase in speeds and less stops, you'd probably do it in 1.5 hours.

Wishful thinking! :rolleyes:

I wonder did the service do well with the Volvo Ocean Race?

compared with one hour ten minutes on the X51 and how many services a day, 10 maybe 12? cheaper and run by the public bus service company running in direct competition with the errrr Public train service company. Now thats what I call joined up thinking in Transport planning. Brilliant.

On a train line that cost what €135 million to restore for what 6 trains a day up and down, and is costing what to be subvented every year €? million and how much to finance the capital funding (cos the money was borrowed from the Germans). These are the harsh realities when transport planning is guided by the whims of pressure groups that make false claims. The harsh realities have cost us dear, and for some reason there is still talk in some circles about actually going ahead with the northern branch line to Tuam and Claremorris. Will someone let me out of here.

what_traffic · 17-07-2012 11:27am

Off topic - but has bearing on WRC - or "Western Greenway Corridor"

http://www.galwaynews.ie/26811-gort-tuam-motorway-gets-go-ahead-stimulus-package

AND
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html?via=mr

Once Motorway is being built from North of Tuam to the existing M18 motorway at Gort - then greenway is the only viable option for the proposed WRC.

Our man in Havana · 17-07-2012 1:44pm

It is only a matter of time before Ennis-Athenry is closed down again. As for the Tuam branch, it will never get beyond the do gooders talking.

westtip · 17-07-2012 1:58pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Off topic - but has bearing on WRC - or "Western Greenway Corridor"

http://www.galwaynews.ie/26811-gort-tuam-motorway-gets-go-ahead-stimulus-package

AND
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html?via=mr

Once Motorway is being built from North of Tuam to the existing M18 motorway at Gort - then greenway is the only viable option for the proposed WRC.

http://www.rte.ie/

indeed the announcement today about the N17/18 is absolutely fabulous news for the west, the kind of infrastucture we really need with the reliable journey times this will bring between the north west and south west this is really fantastic news. Re the WRC the motorway from north of Tuam - presumably to tie in with the good quality claremorris and Knock bypasses will effectively kill off anymore talk about "Rail corridors" from Athentry to Tuam and beyond. Bus journey time Limerick - Galway could come down to less than an hour! And whats more it makes Shannon Airport far more accessible.

This really is great news for the greenway campaign.

Aard · 17-07-2012 2:21pm

I can't see Athenry-Tuam going ahead after today's announcement of the N17/N18 in the stimulus package.

corktina · 17-07-2012 5:43pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It is only a matter of time before Ennis-Athenry is closed down again. As for the Tuam branch, it will never get beyond the do gooders talking.

I dont think the WRC should vbe shut , but the station at Crusheen should not be built and the others bar Ennis should be shut to give a faster service

Our man in Havana · 17-07-2012 6:00pm

Are there any freight workings on the Ennis-Athenry section?

Judgement Day · 17-07-2012 6:04pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Are there any freight workings on the Ennis-Athenry section?

No.

westtip · 17-07-2012 7:34pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No.

Exactly - a branch line built at a cost of what was it 135 million for six up trains and six down trains a day - each of them running to a minimal % of their capacity with a handful of passengers on - it will never happen again , todays announcement re the N17/18 is the absolute end of this nonsense called the western rail corridor. We all now know it is not going to happen - not ever and quite rightly so.

flynnlives · 17-07-2012 7:44pm

westtip wrote: »

Exactly - a branch line built at a cost of what was it 135 million for six up trains and six down trains a day - each of them running to a minimal % of their capacity with a handful of passengers on - it will never happen again , todays announcement re the N17/18 is the absolute end of this nonsense called the western rail corridor. We all now know it is not going to happen - not ever and quite rightly so.

a handfull of passengers?!

good luck! iv been caught about 4/5 times at level crossings outside gort and Ardrahan and the most ive ever counted was 4!
On one occassion i didnt see anyone.

Iv never seen a car parked at the very new looking car park in Ardrahan either.
The lighting for which is on all night!

The whole exercise should be used in textbooks and shown up as how not to do intercity train services.

An epic disaster.

westtip · 17-07-2012 9:40pm

flynnlives wrote: »

a handfull of passengers?!

good luck! iv been caught about 4/5 times at level crossings outside gort and Ardrahan and the most ive ever counted was 4!
On one occassion i didnt see anyone.

Iv never seen a car parked at the very new looking car park in Ardrahan either.
The lighting for which is on all night!

The whole exercise should be used in textbooks and shown up as how not to do intercity train services.

An epic disaster.

How not to do infrastructure planning - this is a textbook case of weak governance, the pressure group West on Track should have been told from day one. no no no. They still won't go away and no doubt we will hear soon about how the new motorway is good news but the "strategic importance of the Western Rail corridor must not be overlooked" What has happened to date has been an epic disaster - for sure there will be no extension north of Athenry certainly not for 20 years if ever.

dowlingm · 18-07-2012 3:01am

No point in closing Gort given the passing loop.

Our man in Havana · 18-07-2012 11:39am

dowlingm wrote: »

No point in closing Gort given the passing loop.

It can be closed as a station whilst maintaining the loop.

18-07-2012 1:17pm

westtip wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/
And whats more it makes Shannon Airport far more accessible.

This really is great news for the greenway campaign.

Whats more is it makes Knock Airport, which has as many routes as Shannon except cheaper even more accessible to people living in South Galway Limerick and beyond;). Complete the road to Sligo and it will truly be the airport of choice for the West and Northwest.

foggy_lad · 18-07-2012 9:12pm

Could Irish Rail not rip up the Western Rail Corridor and sell the sleepers and rail to some local garden centre or on Ebay?

end of the road · 18-07-2012 9:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Could Irish Rail not rip up the Western Rail Corridor and sell the sleepers and rail to some local garden centre or on Ebay?

after spending millions on putting them down in the first place? doubt it. i'd say its concrete sleepers being used for it and not wooden ones? remember this is a vital piece of infrastructure for the west, one which your a massive supporter of, its your favourite rail line. <mwehh>

Our man in Havana · 18-07-2012 9:36pm

I think he means the Northern sections.

foggy_lad · 18-07-2012 9:40pm

end of the road wrote: »

after spending millions on putting them down in the first place? doubt it. i'd say its concrete sleepers being used for it and not wooden ones? remember this is a vital piece of infrastructure for the west, one which your a massive supporter of, its your favourite rail line. <mwehh>

I get the bus! The sleepers would make good gate posts:D and ripping it up would be far cheaper than maintaining it and running empty trains on it for years, lets face it, bar selling the tickets at a huge loss during the summer the train will never be used and will always lose buckets of money!

Hotblack Desiato · 18-07-2012 10:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats more is it makes Knock Airport, which has as many routes as Shannon except cheaper even more accessible to people living in South Galway Limerick and beyond;). Complete the road to Sligo and it will truly be the airport of choice for the West and Northwest.

We should just sell Shannon to the USAF and be done with it (seriously, and I'm not making a political point here, it makes a great military airbase but it's not viable as a civil airport and in truth never was.)

dubhthach · 19-07-2012 10:55am

ninja900 wrote: »

We should just sell Shannon to the USAF and be done with it (seriously, and I'm not making a political point here, it makes a great military airbase but it's not viable as a civil airport and in truth never was.)

That's the reason it was on the Soviet Nuclear target map after all.

Kumsheen · 19-07-2012 11:26am

ninja900 wrote: »

We should just sell Shannon to the USAF and be done with it (seriously, and I'm not making a political point here, it makes a great military airbase but it's not viable as a civil airport and in truth never was.)

That would have been viable 40 years ago, but you would now be at the stage where the USAF would have pulled and you would have a local economy that was dependant on the base.
The USAF are closing bases now, not opening new ones.

I would suggest moving the Air Corps down there and closing Baldonnel down, or selling Baldonnel to O'Leary if he is still interested.

westtip · 19-07-2012 3:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats more is it makes Knock Airport, which has as many routes as Shannon except cheaper even more accessible to people living in South Galway Limerick and beyond;). Complete the road to Sligo and it will truly be the airport of choice for the West and Northwest.

Indeed the announcement and hopefully the actual enactment of the M17/18 extension will make a big difference to Knock. Turning the WRC into a Greenway would also help Knock airport, although WOT see Charlestown station as an interconnector station for Knock Airport, of course what they fail to point out is the station is about 6km from the airport, that to have a meaningful rail connector to an airport a 20 minute frequency is needed and finally the new road and the fact that Knock airport is now a regular stop for buses on the N17 means the airport is now pretty well served for public transport and the new road will mean a bus from Knock airport to Galway will take about an hour.

dowlingm · 19-07-2012 3:34pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It can be closed as a station whilst maintaining the loop.

Yes, it can, but why bother? It could be discontinued as a stop in one direction I suppose so that the rolling train could barrel on and the waiting train could set down/pick up.

Carawaystick · 19-07-2012 5:27pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Yes, it can, but why bother? It could be discontinued as a stop in one direction I suppose so that the rolling train could barrel on and the waiting train could set down/pick up.

D'y know, I have a feeling a train station on the wrc you can only depart from might actually increase usage of the station, getting train spotters to tick it off

5 a week should do

Thatsfootball · 19-07-2012 5:35pm

Probably been mentioned already but I believe that a greenway will ultimately be the result of the WRC. I live within walking distance of a long stretch of the closed area and there is alot of work to be done in terms of replacing tracks. It may be expensive for the greenway but I don't see the WRC being open in the near future unfortunately! There are some great views and scenery along the way so a tourist attraction greenway isn't out of the question.

what_traffic · 30-07-2012 4:06pm

Irish Times Editorial today:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0730/1224321093743.html
4th paragraph

"Equally, parts of the rail reservation should be turned into cycling and walking routes, following the highly-successful model of the Great Western Greenway between Westport and Achill."

westtip · 30-07-2012 10:08pm

It is fantastic news to see one of our daily national newspapers finally embracing this idea in its editorial - I think the idea is now entering about its seventh year as a viral campaign, with what has been written on the threads here, the Facebook campaign and the sligomayogreenway campaign this recognised support for the idea from editorial column of the Irish Times is indeed welcome. At long last! the penny may be dropping.

eastwest · 09-08-2012 9:53pm

westtip wrote: »

Indeed the announcement and hopefully the actual enactment of the M17/18 extension will make a big difference to Knock. Turning the WRC into a Greenway would also help Knock airport, although WOT see Charlestown station as an interconnector station for Knock Airport, of course what they fail to point out is the station is about 6km from the airport, that to have a meaningful rail connector to an airport a 20 minute frequency is needed and finally the new road and the fact that Knock airport is now a regular stop for buses on the N17 means the airport is now pretty well served for public transport and the new road will mean a bus from Knock airport to Galway will take about an hour.

Knock is the airport of the future for the west; I can't see Sligo surviving if they ever shine a torch on the cost of infrastructure in the west.
The idea that Knock would be served by a rail link is so daft that it defies belief. A westtip points out, an airport link would need a 15 to 20 minute frequency, which can never happen in the context of the population and passenger numbers. A bus can do the same job more efficiently and much more cheaply -- what is needed is an upgrade on the few bad sections of the N17.
The realistic future for the Athenry - Collooney rail link seems to be one of dereliction, followed by adverse possession of increasing chunks of the alignment until it is eventually effectively lost to public ownership. The credit for this will lie firmly with WOT and the inter-county railway committee; the alternative future of a greenway to preserve the route is one that is effectively being blocked by these groups.
There is probably little point in hoping that common sense will prevail in tis instance. The counties concerned are run by some of the most incompetent public representatives in the country -- they make Hall's Pictorial Weekly look like a documentary. This is "Ballymagash" politics, with an incredibly backward mentality rooted in hillbilly thinking of the worst kind.

L1011 · 09-08-2012 10:28pm

Sligo Airport surviving what? It already has no flights. It, and Galway, are gone as commercial airports.

As goes 15-20 minute frequency for an airport link, while I don't think Knock will EVER justify one (there isn't anywhere to link Knock to!), it doesn't get enough flights for 15-20 minute frequencies.

Cardiff Airport, far bigger and about 2x busier, has an hourly rail link to the city.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-08-2012 10:44pm

Sligo airport doesn't compete with Knock. In the longer term the question is which one of Shannon and Knock do we want to survive. There isn't room for both.

yer man! · 09-08-2012 10:54pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Sligo airport doesn't compete with Knock. In the longer term the question is which one of Shannon and Knock do we want to survive. There isn't room for both.

Jesus I hope it's Shannon, way better airport, between two cities next to a fairly big town, on a motorway that leads to Galway, Limerick and thus to Dublin. Longer runway also and a coast guard base. Knock is planted in the middle of Mayo on a hill (can it even expand?) and has single carriageway connection. If the economy picks up again, there's no reason why both couldn't survive.

Our man in Havana · 09-08-2012 11:05pm

Knock should never have been opened in the first place.

westtip · 10-08-2012 9:40am

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Knock should never have been opened in the first place.

Its there now, it has been expanded recently, it offers little more than shuttle services to the UK and is comparable to any of the small regional airports, in the context of the WRC, there is no relevance or need to even talk about a rail connector to Knock, simply not needed. What is needed - are good tourist attractions like the expansion of the greenway network to get more people flying into knock.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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