Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

serfboard

mgmt wrote: »

14,400*12 = 172,800 (limerick -ennis)

but...

Iarnrod Eireann wrote:

Total passenger journeys between Limerick and Galway for 2010 were 110,000. This in line with predictions

We do not have any broken down figures available

mgmt wrote: »

WTF

Well from The Irish Times article, the line opened on March 29th, 2010.

=> The figures of 110,000 for Limerick->Galway for 2010 were, in fact, for 9 months of 2010.

=> The monthly figure for 2010 was 110,000 / 9 = 12,222.

Again, from the Irish Times article, Limerick->Ennis was carrying 14,400 passengers a month.

=> The full line from Limerick to Galway is carrying 2,000 passengers a month less, than when it was only Limerick->Ennis :eek:

Now, say WTF?

DWCommuter

For the love of christ will somebody email Frank McDonald.:D

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

For the love of christ will somebody email Frank McDonald.:D

I'm pretty sure Frank is taking a watching brief.:D

Jehuty42

Judgement Day wrote: »

DW and westtip saw this and thought of you.



http://www.iwrsim.graymacimage.com/iwrsimiwr.html

Yeah, I've played that little simulation before- it's incredibly dull, literally an hour or so of trundling along a winding route with no sign of civilisation. It's also littered with level crossings, to a ridiculous degree. I've been thinking about making a Railworks pack for one of the GDA lines- that'd be a lot more exciting!

westtip

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Yeah, I've played that little simulation before- it's incredibly dull, literally an hour or so of trundling along a winding route with no sign of civilisation. It's also littered with level crossings, to a ridiculous degree. I've been thinking about making a Railworks pack for one of the GDA lines- that'd be a lot more exciting!

sounds like an ideal greenway with lots of access points:D

Propellerhead

Have you closed Ennis to Athenry yet?

*yawn*

westtip

Propellerhead wrote: »

Have you closed Ennis to Athenry yet?

*yawn*

No need to - it will gradually whither on the vine with the service levels it provides, it will continue to drain resources from Irish Rail and WOT will continue to sing its praises and demand further branch lines to the north on the basis of being good value for money and vital to the regeneration of the economy of the west. Anyway au contraire it is not my aim to close down the line - its there let it stay open and find its level of patronage. I just don't want to see anymore public money wasted on forlorn projects like the Tuam and Claremorris extension, using the "success" of the Ennis Athenry line as a model - in fact the very lack of real success of this branch line will hopefully kill off the rest of the project. There is a far better way of solving public transport in the west of ireland. BTW how are rural train lines doing in Somerset, any plans to re-open the odd branch line here and there? Perhaps not eh?

Propellerhead

westtip wrote: »

No need to - it will gradually whither on the vine with the service levels it provides, it will continue to drain resources from Irish Rail and WOT will continue to sing its praises and demand further branch lines to the north on the basis of being good value for money and vital to the regeneration of the economy of the west. Anyway au contraire it is not my aim to close down the line - its there let it stay open and find its level of patronage. I just don't want to see anymore public money wasted on forlorn projects like the Tuam and Claremorris extension, using the "success" of the Ennis Athenry line as a model - in fact the very lack of real success of this branch line will hopefully kill off the rest of the project. There is a far better way of solving public transport in the west of ireland. BTW how are rural train lines doing in Somerset, any plans to re-open the odd branch line here and there? Perhaps not eh?

More interested in reestablishing myself after finishing up with my old job in Dublin before Christmas. It is always fascinating how my fellow Irish people claim to know so much about other places.

dowlingm

It will be interesting to see what if any effect the proposed sixth Galway-Ennis-Galway rotation has.

I've been looking at the draft timetable versus the existing - they've pushed the first Galway train back 20mins (resulting in an 18min longer journey time). The funny thing is that it doesn't leave Gort until 0730 (when it probably arrives around 0710, allowing the ex Limerick to move north at 0714). Why would the train be held in Gort for 16 minutes when there doesn't look like there is a conflicting movement in the Ennis-Sixmilebridge section - is it that they think they'll lose Gort commuters if it leaves earlier? Essentially they have largely dealt with the delay going north while introducing one going south.

L1011

That it actually makes the possibility of commuting from, say, Gort to Limerick by rail far more realistic (albeit with a change in Ennis, I presume they *will* hold the train? This being Irish Rail...) may have a positive impact.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what if any effect the proposed sixth Galway-Ennis-Galway rotation has.

I've been looking at the draft timetable versus the existing - they've pushed the first Galway train back 20mins (resulting in an 18min longer journey time). The funny thing is that it doesn't leave Gort until 0730 (when it probably arrives around 0710, allowing the ex Limerick to move north at 0714). Why would the train be held in Gort for 16 minutes when there doesn't look like there is a conflicting movement in the Ennis-Sixmilebridge section - is it that they think they'll lose Gort commuters if it leaves earlier? Essentially they have largely dealt with the delay going north while introducing one going south.

You know my views but is there a market at all for the Galway - Limerick route with these travel times? I just don't get it. Lets look at the longer view - the whole corridor thing - what exactly is it? Does it exist? or are we just looking now at three branch lines - gort limerick, Gort - Galway, and in the future Tuam - Galway.

DWCommuter

It would be a great corridor if comfortable trains were running up and down it at 90 - 100 mph and the state could easily afford it and all other areas of the rail network were in tip top shape. DART Underground etc etc.

That has always been the fundamental argument from the anti-WRC side.

westtip

Hardly a ringing endorsement - on page 79 tucked away in a little corner http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

and the Western Rail Corridor, which will be subject to a cost benefit
analysis by independent experts.

An bord snip me thinks

As for their potential partners in Government (labour) which seems increasingly less likely the campaign is going - the three words Western Rail Corridor don't even feature in the manifesto but......does talk about the Bus Rapid Transport model for our cities at a fraction of a cost of light rail networks...

Labour will also explore the Bus Rapid Transit model in our cities,
which can replicate the speed and
comfort of light rail at a fraction of
the cost..

Bus lanes from Tuam to Galway?

Its all interesting stuff isn't it? I see it as the slow strangulation. Unless the independent experts say it's a great idea and unless Labour see the train option as massively more cost efficient than the WRC northern branch line. Or are they really going to make it happen but are just keeping it a secret.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf

KevR

westtip wrote: »

Bus lanes from Tuam to Galway?

Won't be needed when the M17 is built.

westtip

KevR wrote: »

Won't be needed when the M17 is built.

Indeed but reading on the infrastructure forum unfortunately this is looking under threat as well - but lets hope it does happen.

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

Bus lanes from Tuam to Galway?

KevR wrote: »

Won't be needed when the M17 is built.

And there are already Bus Lanes around the biggest blockage i.e. Claregalway.

dowlingm

BRT does not "replicate Light Rail at a fraction of the cost" and it is dishonest to claim it does or to imply electric urban rail is a frill for the good times. It is a different mode appropriate to different demand catchments. If the demand isn't there it shouldn't get Light Rail - if it is they shouldn't be fobbed off with buses just because buses would employ a larger number of unionised drivers.

dynamick

Save money on expensive trams by buying buses instead. Use savings to pay SIPTU & the NBRU who in turn pay for the labour party's election campaign. Nice one.

westtip

The other good news is the FG manifesto does commit to continue the work done on the National Cycle Network policy. thats on page 80 in which they say:

Rewarding Successful Programmes: We recognise the success of the National Cycle Policy Framework. We will continue to invest in these programmes.

JD especially for you I look forward to our cycle down the Burma road.

Judgement Day

Well, as anybody with any memory will know FG wouldn't spend Christmas and Greenways and more buses instead of railways is definitely a cheap option. :rolleyes:

schemingbohemia

westtip wrote: »

Hardly a ringing endorsement - on page 79 tucked away in a little corner http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf



An bord snip me thinks

As for their potential partners in Government (labour) which seems increasingly less likely the campaign is going - the three words Western Rail Corridor don't even feature in the manifesto but......does talk about the Bus Rapid Transport model for our cities at a fraction of a cost of light rail networks...

Bus lanes from Tuam to Galway?

Its all interesting stuff isn't it? I see it as the slow strangulation. Unless the independent experts say it's a great idea and unless Labour see the train option as massively more cost efficient than the WRC northern branch line. Or are they really going to make it happen but are just keeping it a secret.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf

You didn't include the rest of the Fine Gael quote, which seemed to equate Metro North with WRC!!

The full quote is:
"We will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter rail services, particularly Metro North and the Western Rail Corridor..."

westtip

schemingbohemia wrote: »

You didn't include the rest of the Fine Gael quote, which seemed to equate Metro North with WRC!!

The full quote is:
"We will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter rail services, particularly Metro North and the Western Rail Corridor..."

and directly after that quote - which will be subject to cost benefit analysis by independent experts.

Yep they are probably both doomed to history. A cost benefit analysis on the WRC however should take about 5 minutes, in particular when the Irish government interest rate is taken into account. I read it quite simply. The T21 committment to phases 1 and 2 is no longer on the agenda, and I am sure FG are looking for a get out clause using independent experts and be able to say - Its not my fault guvnor independent experts said it was a complete waste of money.

westtip

OK so now we have our fudge government in place what's in store for this baby WRC, not much I think.

In fact the programme for Government seems decidely thin on transport

Let's take a look and put some spin on it (you can read it all here http://www.finegael2011.com/index.asp)

We recognise the need to rebalance transport policy to favour public transport. We will therefore
establish a Cabinet sub-committee on Infrastructure to explore the benefits to the public transport
passenger of more diverse bus service provision.
A modern high speed transport system is essential to ensure our economic competitiveness. We
will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter services, which will
be subject to cost benefit analysis.

Well the first bit seems to come from the Labour manifesto about buses, and my guess is the high speed transport system with high capaciy commuter services seems to be a mild hint at what they are going to do about Metro North. Fudge it along for a couple of yearsw with cost benefit analysis and lets see how the cash flow is before the next election. I can't read anything positive for WRC can anyone else, it will certainly not fall under high capacity commuter services, and FG remember said it was subject to Cost benefit analysis in their own manifesto

OH yes i have found a bit of encouraging news for the WRC:

We will continue to invest in the National Cycle Policy

Looking outside the WRC not one single major project is mentioned, I wouldn't be enquiring about season tickets from Claremorris to Galway - would you?

Judgement Day

Fine Gael are the party of deregulation and you can expect a free-for-all on intercity bus routes with further rail closures in the not too distant future. The WRC to become a Greenway?

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

Fine Gael are the party of deregulation and you can expect a free-for-all on intercity bus routes with further rail closures in the not too distant future. The WRC to become a Greenway?

JD I think Labour will hold them back on deregulation of buses, re intercity on some routes it has become a bun fight anyway, if all public transport goes down this route it will be bad news for rural Ireland. As for WRC becoming a Greenway, you know my views on that one. I don't think phases 2 and 3 will make it to Claremorris, as the cost benefit analysis will kill them off, the authors of these documents are very careful no mention of Metro North is really something else and the comment about high capacity commuter services really gives carte blanche to the expert group doing the cost benefit analysis on WRC phases 2 and 3 to hammer it on the head - this is the inherent dishonesty I dislike. If it's not going to happen say so and get on with something constructive, but don't hide behind decisions from expert groups. I guess nothing has changed.

DWCommuter

Athenry - Tuam by any means necessary!:D

CIE

Judgement Day wrote: »

Fine Gael are the party of deregulation and you can expect a free-for-all on intercity bus routes with further rail closures in the not too distant future. The WRC to become a Greenway?

That sure does not sound like something in line with deregulation proper. Removing the vice-like grip of CIE on the railways and allowing private railway operators to come into existence and compete would be a deregulating move.

rainbowdash

Leaving aside the usual arguments when does the high price of oil result in increased train patronage?

Presumably it would take sustained higher oil prices for say 6 months or a year for people to change their habits, not bother replacing the car when it breaks down, switch to a new job more suitable to station location etc.?

Teddy455

With stations being open this year at Oranmore and Crusheen likely to be increased pax on services. But slowing down journey even more.

westtip

Teddy455 wrote: »

With stations being open this year at Oranmore and Crusheen likely to be increased pax on services. But slowing down journey even more.

I wonder woudl it make any sense to timetable trains on this line as two separate branch lines, I don't think this line really works as a through route - from Limerick- Galway - it is essentially a southern branch line into Limerick and a nothern branch line into Galway. Would this line work better if a shuttle service applied throughout the day from Gort to Limerick and from Gort to Galway. OK the loss of through services would take out the "intercity" route - and the whole issue of the corridor connecting two cities - but in reality doesn't the line actually work as two branch lines into either Limerick or Galway and the through route traffic is very limited, Irish rail won't provide data on parts of the line due to commercial sensitivity but anecodotal evidence on this forum seems to suggest the through intercity traffic of passengers is very limited. Could a better service operate with the shuttle idea?